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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 16:24:51 GMT
Have you ever tried Beyerdynamic headphones, Westie? Where did you audition the HD800?
S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 26, 2019 16:52:48 GMT
Have you ever tried Beyerdynamic headphones, Westie? Where did you audition the HD800? S. I’ve heard 990s before but not recently. I think it was JG Windows in Newcastle. Ordinary sounding as I recall. I popped into Richer Sounds Leeds today to listen to the 800s. It was lossless into a Quad Vena again. Same as the Meze 99 demo. They offered a listen to the 820s but there was just no point, given how bad the 800s were. The only grain of curiosity left for me would be Stax Lambda Pro Signatures, but I’d bet serious money on me thinking they were dire too. Headphones would have to defy the laws of physics to work properly AFAIC. Putting a pair of transistor radio speakers an inch from your ears and trying to create pretend bass with some sort of enclosure will never do what speakers do. I’m equally shocked by the build and price of today’s headphones. Those Hd800s looked like £99 jobbies and sounded worth about half that at best. I still haven’t heard a pair of headphones I’d value above £99 on sound quality. The law of diminishing returns sets in at a very low price and quality. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 16:56:51 GMT
At the end of the day, trust your ears. The HD800 is a magical universe to one person, or a Sh#t smelly alleyway to another person.
Those Grado RS2e you had must have sounded decent!
S.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 16:59:36 GMT
Decent headphones need a decent headphone amp to drive them properly, the same as speakers do.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 26, 2019 17:02:04 GMT
The Grados have about 50% more clarity than any other headphone I’ve heard. The drawbacks are serious though. Bass is glaringly lacking, they are as rough as a PA system, they have no soundstage whatsoever and they are about as comfortable as a crown of thorns. Other than that, they are great! I’d probably score them 3 or 4 out of 10, with the others coming in between zero and two. Still a long, long way from acceptable, let alone good.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 11:29:33 GMT
It sou ds like you need a trip to a beadphone specialist vendor.
For good bass, ideally you want closed back. Something like the Shure headphone may hit the spot, but trying all the phones is going to be difficult.
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2019 12:41:24 GMT
The problem with closed back is that IME they sound even more shut in that open back. The dull, shut-in sound is my biggest objection to the headphones I’ve tried. If I can’t get headphones that produce an external soundstage broadly equivalent to speakers, I wouldn’t want to listen via headphones at all. BTW I’ve owned decent specialist headphone amps, but they don’t make the kind of differences I need. I’m after several orders of magnitude improvement, not just 10 or even 20%.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 13:32:44 GMT
Aye Senny's are cack right enough.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2019 13:43:15 GMT
Aye Senny's are cack right enough. I did your cans a disservice. Compared to a Sennheisers they were fab! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 14:00:35 GMT
Awe Sh#t , I feel all exonerated now !
😔
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 15:46:18 GMT
Aye Senny's are cack right enough. Which Sennheisers have you tried? S. |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 27, 2019 16:10:50 GMT
I've had and demonstrated all sorts since the mid 50's when the Koss Pro4aa, Jecklin Float and Sennheiser HD414 rulled the headphone waves.
Please don't damn Sennheiser until you've heard them all - each one is different and fits people's head differently and preferably on a proper headphone amp offering plenty of power, a very low output impedance so the response isn't altered and low distortion to boot, as any amp colour is magnified into 'phones I've found.
Little money available for high end confections, so what did this old head settle on sixteen years ago? We had the pro HD25's and the scaled down HD25-SP's. I compared them and slight spec (and headband) difference apart, the main difference was the increased pressure of the full scale model reinforced the bass, possibly a shade too much. The 25SP has the original HD414 headband (with a rubber cushion touching your head) and I love 'em to bits. they're raw, they're clear in the mids, rather toppy which my ears like (not sharp or tinselly) and I can wear them for a few hours before my ear-lobes sweat. Bass and mids are just fine and with a vintage 40WPC Crown amp directly connected to them (as studios often once used these amps for), my ears give out long before they do! I wish my speakers sounded as 'direct' (the ancient IMF's make a good stab though). |
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2019 17:20:20 GMT
Please don’t make me listen to any more Sennheisers lol. I’d top meself first.
Headphones simply aren’t even on the first rung of the high fidelity ladder AFAIC. I’ve binned the idea completely.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 17:53:48 GMT
Aye Senny's are cack right enough. Which Sennheisers have you tried? S. Loads of them. my friends sell them in Nelson darkest Lancashire. Don't ask me the numbers. I don't do numbers. I drive a BMW but I don't know what the numbers are. 🤪 I thing the best sellers were the 650's. They sound likes they were in an egg box. Dull as ditch water. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 17:57:52 GMT
650's dull as ditch water. Yet you like those Meze 99 Classics! Odd!
S.
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2019 17:58:02 GMT
Which Sennheisers have you tried? S. Loads of them. my friends sell them in Nelson darkest Lancashire. Don't ask me the numbers. I doobree fo numbers. I drive a BMW but I don't know what the numbers are. 🤪 I thing the best sellers were the 650's. They sound likes they were in an egg box. Dull as ditch water. Oh how I wish we had a double thumbs up! Dull, Dull, Dull. and enclosed.......and did I mention dull? |
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2019 17:59:20 GMT
650's dull as ditch water. Yet you like those Meze 99 Classics! Odd! S. I haven’t heard the 650s but the 800s were way duller than the Mezes. And inferior in every way...looks, build and sound. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 18:00:57 GMT
The 800's should be bright! Not dull.
S.
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2019 18:07:19 GMT
One thing I did like about the Sennheisers...well the only thing....they were very comfortable. If they had sounded good, I could’ve worn them for long periods.
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2019 18:10:47 GMT
The 800's should be bright! Not dull. S. Sounded like they were buried under a memory foam mattress. Only those with treble phobia need apply. Slow, enclosed. Soft, stodgy, turgid, lacking detail, no rhythm. Not a single sonic plus. In a blind test I’d have expected them to be a supermarket brand. If I could encapsulate what’s wrong with them in one phrase, I’d say I like the “snap” of Grados and hate the “thud” of Sennheiser. They had the same stodgy and dull sound years ago, Going off the HD800s they haven’t changed. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 23:48:06 GMT
Westie.
If you've tried the grado 325i's and they're not cutting the mustard for the required dynamics and openness then I'd forget it. All headphones and even worse...buds use the ear cavity to boost the bass unnaturally. If anyone doubts this , let some air in between your ears and the buds and hear the bass completely disappear. Ergo... they're shite up to speakers. The false bass cancels out any chance of hi fidelity.
They're not perfect, the grados but because of their open leaky earcups they do manage at least an open breathy sound and lots of dynamics as far as headphones are concerned.
Rally though , if you don't have to use headphones .... don't.
I use them because I have to work some strange hours being on call and I listen sometimes when the rest of the country is abed. If I didn't I wouldn't have them in the house.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 23:54:34 GMT
engine. Is the build quality on the Meze Classic 99 good?
S.
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2019 8:31:48 GMT
Westie. If you've tried the grado 325i's and they're not cutting the mustard for the required dynamics and openness then I'd forget it. All headphones and even worse...buds use the ear cavity to boost the bass unnaturally. If anyone doubts this , let some air in between your ears and the buds and hear the bass completely disappear. Ergo... they're shite up to speakers. The false bass cancels out any chance of hi fidelity. They're not perfect, the grados but because of their open leaky earcups they do manage at least an open breathy sound and lots of dynamics as far as headphones are concerned. Rally though , if you don't have to use headphones .... don't. I use them because I have to work some strange hours being on call and I listen sometimes when the rest of the country is abed. If I didn't I wouldn't have them in the house. You’re spot on and I will follow your advice. I think it was the fact others claimed headphones were superior to speakers that completely threw me. For me, they don’t even get close to being classed as hi-fi or even mid-fi no matter how much you spend. As you rightly point out, the physics just isn’t there. I like the term “sub-fi” to describe them. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 9:39:07 GMT
engine. Is the build quality on the Meze Classic 99 good? S. They are up to the grado's. The thing is , there's no plastic on them. . Leather , wood and metal. so the build is different. No solid plastic ear cones etc. But I think they've done a great job. Plus , there's no glue ! All the parts are customer refittable. I'd say they're as good as you'll get for Bolt on headphones. |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 28, 2019 11:21:28 GMT
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2019 13:23:18 GMT
Dave, with respect, you’re miles off. They are so far away from being good, a lack of an HF peak is the least of their problems. They are £50 worth of junk with a £1300 price tag hung on them. They are an utter rip off, which I’m happy to expose and deride. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2019 13:33:10 GMT
engine. Is the build quality on the Meze Classic 99 good? S. They are up to the grado's. The thing is , there's no plastic on them. . Leather , wood and metal. so the build is different. No solid plastic ear cones etc. But I think they've done a great job. Plus , there's no glue ! All the parts are customer refittable. I'd say they're as good as you'll get for Bolt on headphones. I’d say they are better built than Grados. The things that disappointed me about them could have been easily solved and would make them look and feel better. - The head frame appears to be pressed steel. It looked rough and poorly finished. - The ear cups are raw wood. A bit of wax would work wonders. - The diaphragms were covered with a fabric that looked like it had a nylon content. It looked really nasty and wasn’t well fitted, with imperfections around the edge. Frankly I’d prefer no fabric. It’s always going to get dirty. - The wire was Sh#t. Like thin string. OK, so I didn’t like the sound, especially the loose bass. But I haven’t liked any headphones, so park that thought. If the Mezes had the issues I raised addressed, it would probably cost very little and would elevate the build and finish immeasurably. They would look and feel like a far more expensive headphone. Other than the frame, you could probably do the rest yourself. Maybe I’m far more fussy than most people. Anything even remotely “hair shirt” is unacceptable to me. Given that they were better than the £1300 Sennheisers, they may be right up someone’s street. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 14:17:51 GMT
Can't recall the last tme I used 'phones, got several sets though, my favs being the vintage Yamaha HP-10 orthodynamics.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 28, 2019 19:05:02 GMT
I liked the 325i's and found them more refined than the baby models, although ear-pads seem to be the main difference in these. The HD800's are so well liked I'm wondering if it's the lack of resonances that makes them sound boring? No idea as I was out of it all once my 600's went (these need a proper headphone amp rather than the token socket on some sources I was using and my 25SP's (which nobody bothers about) are a doddle to drive, comfortable and all the sparkle I need.
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2019 19:09:59 GMT
All I can say is that I have intensely disliked every Sehhheiser I’ve heard in my life. They have all sounded dull,slow and stodgy. None have been well made either. If I was paying £99 or less for 800s I’d have thought they were okay but not great vfm, but £1300? Someone is raking in a huge profit. I will find out what trade is and report back. I bet it’s under £600 and maybe under £500.
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