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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 18:53:48 GMT
I loved the ADC XLM (mk11 or 111? can't remember which now) Yes. Had a few of the XLM III's. Lovely cartridges, but so were the older 'brick' ADC's. I still have two 10E Mk.II carts, a 10E Mk.IV and a 550EX, they still sound superb and I doubt any modern non-MC will outclass them. The 550EX was the biggest surprise, it sounds every bit as nice as the 10 series carts. The transparency and detail are excellent and better than many MC's. Finding good ones is hard these days and new genuine styli near impossible to find. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 18:59:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 21:15:54 GMT
Further to my earlier post, I think I have to move my EPC-310MC with paratrace tip further up the list.
It is making me think twice about buying a new cart.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 21:19:47 GMT
Further to my earlier post, I think I have to move my EPC-310MC with paratrace tip further up the list. It is making me think twice about buying a new cart. Those Technics MC's are superb. I used the EPC-305MC very happily for many years. There are stories about the rubber cantilever suspension getting tired and sagging, but a good cartridge specialist should be able to replace it, I bet Dominic at NWA could. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 27, 2020 21:28:05 GMT
Further to my earlier post, I think I have to move my EPC-310MC with paratrace tip further up the list. It is making me think twice about buying a new cart. Those Technics MC's are superb. I used the EPC-305MC very happily for many years. There are stories about the rubber cantilever suspension getting tired and sagging, but a good cartridge specialist should be able to replace it, I bet Dominic at NWA could. Depends if they are available Geoff. No expert can replace an obsolete part. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 22:28:01 GMT
Those Technics MC's are superb. I used the EPC-305MC very happily for many years. There are stories about the rubber cantilever suspension getting tired and sagging, but a good cartridge specialist should be able to replace it, I bet Dominic at NWA could. Depends if they are available Geoff. No expert can replace an obsolete part. Original parts would never have been available, but I bet Dom could make a suitable replacement. |
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Post by karma67 on Jan 28, 2020 4:48:06 GMT
Further to my earlier post, I think I have to move my EPC-310MC with paratrace tip further up the list. It is making me think twice about buying a new cart. Those Technics MC's are superb. I used the EPC-305MC very happily for many years. There are stories about the rubber cantilever suspension getting tired and sagging, but a good cartridge specialist should be able to replace it, I bet Dominic at NWA could. nope,i tried both him and esc.they are well aware of the problem and wont touch them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 5:31:06 GMT
My 310MC was retipped by Esco 24 months ago. They gave it the thumbs up, and there is no sign of sagging.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 28, 2020 8:33:07 GMT
I loved the ADC XLM (mk11 or 111? can't remember which now) good dynamics, sound stage and "tone"! - came with a "free magnesium alloy head shell). As I was an impressionable youth I replace it with a K9 - OK on dynamics, rather course, but I persevered  Splashed out on an Ortofon MC25fl - beautiful music, but I missed the dynamics and when it started picking up fluff (stylus damage/age? - not sure but I may have a look in to getting it retipped one day) I took the opportunity of replacing it with a DV10X5. Back with the dynamics that I had been missing. Moved on to a 20X2h, pre owned but in excellent condition- OK but didn't move me. Now back with a 10X5, it seems that I need the more dynamic/visceral presentation to keep me happy. Only thing seriously wrong with the 10XV is the price, but we've discussed this before. They've stuck a Shibabta diamond on it now to justify the nearly £600 they want for it.
I have an ADC 26 here with newish stylus. Unusable today as compliance is too high and tracking of sibilance poor. My ZLM is far far better.
The K9 was a model we sold as it was popular but few of us wanted it at home. The K5 plastic mount body with K9 stylus sounded sweeter though and last K9's were just this. Tonally a bit OTT i remember (I have a couple but styli are totally gone). K18mk2 was nicer and today, I suspect the AT VM95ML (same internals I believe but dressed differently outside) would easily see it off.
Anyway, off to 'do' an LP12, Lord help me  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 28, 2020 9:11:37 GMT
Those Technics MC's are superb. I used the EPC-305MC very happily for many years. There are stories about the rubber cantilever suspension getting tired and sagging, but a good cartridge specialist should be able to replace it, I bet Dominic at NWA could. nope,i tried both him and esc.they are well aware of the problem and wont touch them. Yup, i was told that before, probably by you lol. I am very interested in trying one but that sagging issue does worry me. However, Kevin, i am glad yours is ok |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 10:11:28 GMT
Only thing seriously wrong with the 10XV is the price, but we've discussed this before. They've stuck a Shibabta diamond on it now to justify the nearly £600 they want for it.
.............
Anyway, off to 'do' an LP12, Lord help me Hi Dave, you are right about the price - bloody amazing how much it has gone up! Only justification/s I have for the most recent purchase: It wasn't £600 a couple of years ago. At least I got about £100 "trade in" for my old Dynavector. "Free" fitting on my Ittok (Sorry for mentioning the arm - I know how much you dislike it  ) Most importantly though - the 10X5does the business for me  Nothing wrong with "doing" an LP12, great value deck! |
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Post by dsjr on Jan 28, 2020 12:33:01 GMT
This one was not very cooperative (1990 vintage too) and I've just left it in the jig to let the suspension settle before putting the bottom back on.
I don't dislike the Ittok at all - I owned four from new over the years including an original 'Glasgow Black' one which 'we' all thought was better than the early 80's period silver ones (maybe imagination but they did seem slightly more refined sounding)! What I don't care always for so much are 1980's vintage (and earlier) LP12's *fitted* with Ittoks, as the bass is usually all wrong and when fitted with Karma and Troika cartridges, the sound goes even more diffuse (many samples and not just one.
This deck today reminded me exactly why I went against it for so long. They're not all like this I now freely admit, but regularly hearing alternative now much cheaper decks just 'work' straight away with no poncing around with different springs/grommets and so on kind of brings it all back home for me and looking at a Thorens TD160 I was gifted years ago and which I'm slowly bringing together (kicking and screaming), the Td160 moved the two right hand springs to better balance the mass of the tonearm (not sure RD had it quite right with the heavy platters trying to tip the sub chassis up, but the mass distribution on an LP12 is definitely not what it could be, the back spring always being 'squashed' more than the other two, especially the left hand one.
All good fun though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 12:55:01 GMT
Apologies Dave, I didn't realise that it was just early LP12's with Ittoks fitted that you have reservations about.
Mine is an 87/88 deck so perhaps ok in your view?
Funny that you mention "Glasgow Black" - I thought that was a myth? (I have a black one, cosmetically ties in beautifully with my plain black plinth imo and better bass extension and control than the original Basik plus that the deck came with. Really was a shock when it was first fitted, definitely made the basik plus sound lightweight).
Sorry for the thread drift, all my fault.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 28, 2020 15:32:24 GMT
'Glasgow Black Ittok' may well be a myth, but my colleague and I (who both travelled to the factory and bought one each in 1981) were convinced this small batch were slightly 'better' than the stock silvery ones - but obviously sighted comparisons so all bets are off really. I think this batch were only a dozen or so and subsequent Ittoks seemed to get slightly better as they went along, which may have been altering the finish of the arm tube as much as anything else. For a late 80's LP12/Ittok, a Cirkus plus matching sub-chassis used to make for a huge upgrade, especially for an Ekos. These days, the Majik sub-chassis is claimed to be better again - fitted with the arm board, the arm is bolted right through the metal and the whole shebang seems to be pretty inert structure and any LP12 main bearing can be fitted to it. www.soundstage.uk.com/p/linn-majik-standard-sub-chassis/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_--k6smm5wIViLHtCh0ekAQvEAQYASABEgLsTfD_BwEIf your bearing has black sleeves, you may be alright concerning bearing wear as this one I checked this morning was perfect (1990 sample), but the white sleeved types of mid 80's decks can be suspect after thirty odd years, depending on sample of thrust plate. The above is nothing to do with favourite cartridges, but having a Linnie frame of mind today, I was impressed with the rebuilt and retipped Troika's I've heard. Stock new samples went dull as they 'ran in' and this emphasised the 'fruitbox' criticism of the LP12. Rebuilt and retipped, they come to life and sparkle naturally with no sharpness or spitching... |
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Post by karma67 on Jan 28, 2020 17:03:54 GMT
nope,i tried both him and esc.they are well aware of the problem and wont touch them. Yup, i was told that before, probably by you lol. I am very interested in trying one but that sagging issue does worry me. However, Kevin, i am glad yours is ok there's a few on ebay but after having 2 both ending up sagging it really is a gamble,a bloody shame as its a stonking cartridge. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 28, 2020 17:08:56 GMT
Yup, i was told that before, probably by you lol. I am very interested in trying one but that sagging issue does worry me. However, Kevin, i am glad yours is ok there's a few on ebay but after having 2 both ending up sagging it really is a gamble,a bloody shame as its a stonking cartridge. I'm tempted mate, I likd the specs, like the price too but I think I'm gonna wait until I've finished the phonostages. I think a different flavour of cartridge may be invaluable as another perspective on what people may experience when they build or buy theirs. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 21:33:53 GMT
Is it a crazy idea to buy a 305MC, knowing that the rubber ring could fail at any time? They are not cheap, and I expect that failure would not take long with use.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 28, 2020 22:44:08 GMT
Is it a crazy idea to buy a 305MC, knowing that the rubber ring could fail at any time? They are not cheap, and I expect that failure would not take long with use. Dunno, but the experience may be worth it. I don't know if I could relax knowing how fragile it could be |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 6:58:55 GMT
I had a set up using a pre Cirkus LP12 with it's original FR12 arm and a Mose Hercules psu. I had it on a Tiger Paw wall shelf with another layer of isolation using non Naim, Naim spec glass and Naim Fraim cups and ball bearings and was using a Dynavector 20x2 L and a Benz Micro Ace SL. If you played an expensive well pressed record or an original pressing from the early to late 60's that deck sounded incredible and fellow enthusiasts who heard it said the same thing but play an early reggae 7" or a JA press LP from the 80's and it sounded horrible which rendered much of the music I really love unplayable.
The AT 150EA on the Technics tank I have now will play most things you stick on it well and those very expensive presses I have still sound great and I'm enjoying ALL of my collection.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 30, 2020 7:19:34 GMT
I had a set up using a pre Cirkus LP12 with it's original FR12 arm and a Mose Hercules psu. I had it on a Tiger Paw wall shelf with another layer of isolation using non Naim, Naim spec glass and Naim Fraim cups and ball bearings and was using a Dynavector 20x2 L and a Benz Micro Ace SL. If you played an expensive well pressed record or an original pressing from the early to late 60's that deck sounded incredible and fellow enthusiasts who heard it said the same thing but play an early reggae 7" or a JA press LP from the 80's and it sounded horrible which rendered much of the music I really love unplayable. The AT 150EA on the Technics tank I have now will play most things you stick on it well and those very expensive presses I have still sound great and I'm enjoying ALL of my collection. Your setup shouldn't dictate what you play. I've seen loads of folks say the same thing about various pieces of kit. Never heard an LP12 of any type. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 18:20:47 GMT
I contacted NWA to ask if it was possible to repair a 305MC, and the response was yes, including the TTDD, but the suggestion was to buy a V15 with Jico stylus instead.
Not sure I follow the logic, so I have asked why.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 18:44:10 GMT
Wether it was the LP12, the cart or the Naim 282/SC/300 amp I don't know but that system hated badly mastered and badly pressed records. The only thing I'm sure didn't contribute is my speakers because I still own them.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 30, 2020 18:44:36 GMT
The people in the UK I'd trust is EsCo (as I've used them in the past) and possibly Goldring who used to do cartridge rebuilds.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 18:48:01 GMT
I have contacted ESCO, but I am still waiting a response. I am not sure they will touch the suspension.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 30, 2020 18:50:54 GMT
I had a set up using a pre Cirkus LP12 with it's original FR12 arm and a Mose Hercules psu. I had it on a Tiger Paw wall shelf with another layer of isolation using non Naim, Naim spec glass and Naim Fraim cups and ball bearings and was using a Dynavector 20x2 L and a Benz Micro Ace SL. If you played an expensive well pressed record or an original pressing from the early to late 60's that deck sounded incredible and fellow enthusiasts who heard it said the same thing but play an early reggae 7" or a JA press LP from the 80's and it sounded horrible which rendered much of the music I really love unplayable. The AT 150EA on the Technics tank I have now will play most things you stick on it well and those very expensive presses I have still sound great and I'm enjoying ALL of my collection. Your setup shouldn't dictate what you play. I've seen loads of folks say the same thing about various pieces of kit. Never heard an LP12 of any type. The pre Cirkus LP12 with FR arm of whatever model? No bloody wonder it was fussy as with the ittok on this era of deck, the bass would have been all over the place - ugh! the only massive arm I heard on an LP12 that sort-of worked was the Zeta and even this was too tall to fit under the lid (Jimmy H used to drop the suspension as low as possible and also used to drop the Valhalla away from the deck, siting it on the floor under his SO stand - very dangerous for normal folk to do, but it did 'sound' slightly better).
the Tiger Paw updates (top plate and magnetic bearing assistance especially but I've only heard these with Cirkus bearing and later sub-chassis types) on the LP12, change it out of all recognition. the sound still 'swings,' but the focus and sense of 'rightness' compared to neutral sources is definitely there to a much larger degree.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 30, 2020 18:57:07 GMT
I have contacted ESCO, but I am still waiting a response. I am not sure they will touch the suspension. Back in the day, they could do total rebuilds and re-calibrations too, not just grafting a new cantilever/diamond assembly to an existing generator. Fitting diamonds alone to a cantilever* wasn't beyond their skills I understand, but they're popular worldwide and have loing waiting lists I understand.
* I need to check to see if they still make the A&R PN7 stylus as they made all the later ones for the A&R P77 back in the day (was it really nearly forty years ago now?). I also have what looks to be a good AT OC30 here where the tiny butt-mounted diamond chip was knocked off, leaving a nice straight cantilever and a tiny bob of glue on the end (Koetsu's used to fail like this too). No money to do this though, but it was a darned good cartridge in its day and with far more 'balls' than a stock OC9 used to have.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 17:57:54 GMT
Is it a crazy idea to buy a 305MC, knowing that the rubber ring could fail at any time? They are not cheap, and I expect that failure would not take long with use. Dunno, but the experience may be worth it. I don't know if I could relax knowing how fragile it could be Well the seller has not responded to my simple questions about the history of the particular cartridge, and the state of the stylus..... I will be steering clear of this one. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 31, 2020 19:51:21 GMT
Dunno, but the experience may be worth it. I don't know if I could relax knowing how fragile it could be Well the seller has not responded to my simple questions about the history of the particular cartridge, and the state of the stylus..... I will be steering clear of this one. Probably wise. Shame about that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 0:58:17 GMT
I bought an orto MC20FL some years ago. It lasted about a week then collapsed onto a record. The cantilever had been soldered together after an obviously severe stress fracture (dusting accident )
Buy second hand carts at yer peril say I .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 10:47:43 GMT
seller must have been a right ........... ...........(insert your favourite insult here)
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