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Post by pauld on Feb 11, 2019 15:34:58 GMT
i honestly wasn't getting pissy about it, Paul. I'm just interested why that is all.
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Post by savvypaul on Feb 11, 2019 15:40:55 GMT
i honestly wasn't getting pissy about it, Paul. I'm just interested why that is all. Your interest is coming across as defensiveness. If it's the former then I've explained why I hold the view that I do, so you can safely move on. If it's the latter, carry on, I suppose, if you must...  |
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Post by pauld on Feb 11, 2019 15:41:54 GMT
I have absolutely no problem with you wanting to put together the best possible system for the least amount of money, that is just sensible. I was just concerned because all you seemed to be talking about with this product is the cost, it's £2.4k for the box and £600 for the cables, who cares if that is how much it costs and that is how much people are willing and able to spend on it, then good luck to them. You give the impression of being unduly bothered about others drawing attention to what on the face of it looks rather like unreasonable pricing. Surely it makes sense to ask what one is getting for the money, regardless of personal wealth. Ok, I think this will go full circle if we are not careful, like Paul said with his wheels on the bus comments. I just don't understand why anyone cares how much it is. A Ferrari costs £100k or more but nobody says, oooo that is too expensive, they understand that if they want a Ferrari they have to pay that amount for it. This Coherent box costs the price it does and people thinking the price is 'unreasonable' isn't going to change it. I also think it is a UK mentality, we all want the best for very little. |
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Post by pauld on Feb 11, 2019 15:44:01 GMT
i honestly wasn't getting pissy about it, Paul. I'm just interested why that is all. Your interest is coming across as defensiveness. If it's the former then I've explained why I hold the view that I do, so you can safely move on. If it's the latter, carry on, I suppose, if you must... Fair enough, Paul. I am bored of this conversation too now, let's agree to disagree, or agree to agree and move on  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 19:40:26 GMT
The bit of ferreting about that I did with regards what one does when connected, gave the explanation that with one connected, the magnetic field around the item connected is lowered. It's measurable and not just waffle bring spouted. How then that reduction in the the surrounding magnetic field equates to an improvement in sound quality, is something else.
Did someone mention shakey stones?
I've got the front door painted green.
Don't knock it. Don't knock it mate until you've tried it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 20:00:58 GMT
Don't knock it. Don't knock it mate until you've tried it. Is that an Oscar Wilde quote? |
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Post by macca on Feb 11, 2019 20:04:08 GMT
Kim Wilde I think
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Post by macca on Feb 11, 2019 20:06:19 GMT
The bit of ferreting about that I did with regards what one does when connected, gave the explanation that with one connected, the magnetic field around the item connected is lowered. It's measurable and not just waffle bring spouted. How then that reduction in the the surrounding magnetic field equates to an improvement in sound quality, is something else. You measured this yourself or is this something you read? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 20:13:20 GMT
Are we agreed that none of us is bovvered?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 20:18:02 GMT
I used various sized pebbles from the beach .... They looked like Shakti stones but I heard fuk all difference despite listening very carefully to me Billy Ocean & Waterboys albums.
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Post by macca on Feb 11, 2019 20:27:35 GMT
I used various sized pebbles from the beach .... They looked like Shakti stones but I heard fuk all difference despite listening very carefully to me Billy Ocean & Waterboys albums. Should've tried Jimi Hendrix Stone Free. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 20:28:00 GMT
Bang a copper rod into the ground that is all that is required for effective grounding used to that with our DX and SW ham set ups.
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 11, 2019 20:50:05 GMT
I'd love to see those reported em field reduction measurements.
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Post by savvypaul on Feb 11, 2019 22:01:23 GMT
I'd love to see those reported em field reduction measurements. So would the manufacturer... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 0:30:57 GMT
The bit of ferreting about that I did with regards what one does when connected, gave the explanation that with one connected, the magnetic field around the item connected is lowered. It's measurable and not just waffle bring spouted. How then that reduction in the the surrounding magnetic field equates to an improvement in sound quality, is something else. You measured this yourself or is this something you read? From what I said is it not apparent that it's what I'd read? I did say, just last night (the night before now it's after 12) that I'd just bought a meter. Add the fact that I don't own or have access to a grounding box. When the meter comes (less than £20 off eBay) I can measure the electo-magnetic/magnetic strength around gear. It will indicate if a DIY box does anything to reduce said fields. Providing I can find the enthusiasm to construct one. One thing. Being a headphone user, I generally find listening outside tends to sound better than when in the house. Don't know if EMFs are at play or not. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 0:38:19 GMT
Don't knock it. Don't knock it mate until you've tried it. Is that an Oscar Wilde quote? I thought it was Oscar Tritt. Tritt, Wilde, what's in a name? |
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 12, 2019 0:53:48 GMT
I doubt twenty quads worth of chi-bay em meter would notice it. You'd need an em damped, shielded room for a start.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 1:11:35 GMT
The ferreting showed a reduction from 900V/m to 750Vm using a handheld item. I would have thought though, applying some simple deductive logic, one could shield an amp from surrounding fields by constructing a Faraday Cage around it - save yourself a wad of money in the process. Couple of new additions to the PGA line. Prices yet to be announced - (They won't be cheap.).   |
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Post by macca on Feb 12, 2019 6:59:04 GMT
You measured this yourself or is this something you read? From what I said is it not apparent that it's what I'd read? It wasn't 100% clear to me so I asked. Ferreting around can mean a lot of things in my book |
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Post by nonuffin on Feb 12, 2019 11:50:42 GMT
The ferreting showed a reduction from 900V/m to 750Vm using a handheld item. I would have thought though, applying some simple deductive logic, one could shield an amp from surrounding fields by constructing a Faraday Cage around it - save yourself a wad of money in the process. Couple of new additions to the PGA line. Prices yet to be announced - (They won't be cheap.).
Most amps already have a Faraday Cage surrounding them in the shape of a metal chassis and a metal lid.
Not that it makes the smallest difference anyway with regards to EM shielding, as even your 20 quid meter will go off the scale if you wave it around where the mains transformer is located. And while you are about it, wave the meter along the length of the mains cable too and be surprised how much one of them gives off.
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 12, 2019 13:43:31 GMT
Just wave it around an empty room and you'll get similar results.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 15:24:57 GMT
Just got back from Alan's (Firebottle) after hearing the Coherent RTZ grounding box. ***Edit: No BMU, DC Blocker or ferrites are in use as far as i know***
Unfortunately, it does work in his system lol.
I tested it blind, and I got it right every time. About 4 goes of A/B.
Night and day? No. obvious? Well I wasn't guessing so I have to say.....yes.
The effect was an improvement in resolution. Without the RTZ in, there was a loss of leading edge and clarity. Almost smudged.
With it in, it sharpened the sound and created a more definite soundstage. Everything felt a fair bit more defined.
Was it enough for me to consider buying one? No. Not yet at least. I need to hear it here, in my own system and there needs to be a few more things happening first. Let me explain,
Alan's invested £1k+ at a guess, in the RTZ box and cables, which although I now see why, still gives me heart palpitations.
Alan is highly unlikely to change any aspect of his system so as I said before, what else to you do to get an increase in performance when you have settled on your rig? It makes sense in the context of his future aspirations and his system that this is now part of his system.
However for me, I'd take that £1k+ and use it towards new speakers or an Ortofon Winfeld.
What I will say in its favour is that it does improve the entire system rather than just one bit. Digital side is improved on the same scale as the analogue, which disproved my "digital only" theory.
I'm left rather perplexed at what I've heard Vs the price. Whilst I'm now happy to stand my ground on its effectiveness, I neither understand how it works or whether there is £1k worth of product in the package.
To me it looks like a £15 Chinese aluminium box with fancy terminals on the back, Black Ravioli feet and nothing more. It's hard to see exactly where the price comes from.
The material inside the box CAN NOT be a new Material, it MUST already exist.
Whatever it is, its heavy and while Tony can keep the materials identity a secret, he'll sell a lot of these boxes.
This is an accessory for the time when you're as far up the food chain of your equipment as you're likely to go and then you stick one of these in to put the cherry on top.
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Post by savvypaul on Feb 12, 2019 15:33:51 GMT
Feb 12, 2019 15:24:57 GMT bigman80 said:
Alan's invested £1k+ at a guess, in the RTZ box and cables, which although I now see why, still gives me heart palpitations.
The cheapest option on the Coherent site is £800 for the smallest box and £250 per cable.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 15:46:36 GMT
Feb 12, 2019 15:24:57 GMT bigman80 said: Alan's invested £1k+ at a guess, in the RTZ box and cables, which although I now see why, still gives me heart palpitations. The cheapest option on the Coherent site is £800 for the smallest box and £250 per cable. There you go then. Not a bad guess considering i hadn't looked. 1 small box & 2 Cables! Good grief. |
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Post by macca on Feb 12, 2019 16:17:09 GMT
So how come someone else heard nothing? This must be a pretty subtle effect, at best?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 17:24:14 GMT
So how come someone else heard nothing? This must be a pretty subtle effect, at best? Who heard nothing? Was it with the same unit? It wasn't subtle but it wasn't in your face obvious either. Remember, i did this blind so there was no way other than to hear it. |
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Post by firebottle on Feb 12, 2019 17:36:38 GMT
Was it with the same unit? It wasn't subtle but it wasn't in your face obvious either. Remember, i did this blind so there was no way other than to hear it. It was with the same unit. I will repeat what I posted elsewhere: 'The improvements are dependent on the system, you wouldn't expect to hear a difference on an Aiwa separates system. OK that is a bit flippant but the greatest benefit is heard on a balanced system, by that is meant one that has 'equal' performance to all the individual parts. It's no good putting a top of the range amp into an otherwise average system. Secondly we all hear differently. Experience and better kit will open up your perception of changes. Don't you find that once you have an improvement to your sound you can never go back?' I am beginning to think that with better performing gear you do possibly get a more noticeable effect. Anyway I am very happy with the improvements it has given me, and after all - it's only money. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 17:42:51 GMT
I have no idea then. You were there. I picked it blind. Explain that!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 12, 2019 17:44:29 GMT
I would just HAVE to take a can opener to one if I owned it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 17:47:04 GMT
I would just HAVE to take a can opener to one if I owned it. Yes, I want it open. |
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