Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 22:44:18 GMT
BTW - I find this from a Winfeld Ti review, Absolute Sound, Sept 2018 interestingAccording to Ortofon, “the Windfeld Ti shares a similar motor design to the MC A95, where Ortofon did a lot of work to create an alloy that could be used for the armature with the least possible magnetic effect. This idea originally came from the Anna cartridge, as the armature was completely polymer based. The reason for this is because on a traditional MC cartridge, the armature’s magnetism raises the output slightly, but whenever the armature moves, it tends to distort the magnetic field that each coil sees. In the Cadenza Black, the original Windfeld, and the A95 we use a field-stabilizing element to help fix this (technical details at ortofon.com). In the A95 and Ti models, the FSE is less active and this is thought to offer a positive benefit in the linearity of the cartridge. Of course on the Anna, it’s not needed because the armature is not metal at all.” That's Interesting as I don't believe the CB has the FSE. The Bronze has the FSE, but no WRD, and the Black has the WRD but no FSE as far as I recall. Cadenza Blue: The Blue model is using a Nude FG 70 stylus with a very thin ruby cantilever. The improved winding process on the armature ensures better channel balance. The soundstage of Cadenza Blue is wide open and grandiose straight out of the box. Micro dynamic and ambience will be evident when listening to complex compositions. It reaches a very high degree of definition in the perspective, which is very present. It is true to the music with a tremendous clarity. Cadenza Bronze: The Bronze model is using a Replicant 100 stylus and a conical aluminium cantilever. The coil wire is the famous Ortofon Aucurum wire, which is a gold plated 6NX copper wire. A Field Stabilizing Element, FSE, is used for optimal linearity especially during complex crescendo passages. Cadenza Bronze is a true high-end reference cartridge, conveying music with supreme precision, impact and dynamics. Its stereo imaging capabilities illuminate the farthest corners of the soundstage in all three dimensions. Cadenza Black: The Black model is using a Nude Shibata stylus with a boron cantilever. The effective mass of the stylus/cantilever system is extremely low due to the use of a very thin boron rod. This material is extremely stiff and even more lightweight than aluminium. It also uses the WRD (Wide Range Damping-system), controlling the high and low frequency damping separately. Cadenza Black is optimized for an amazing tonal neutrality, dynamics and purity of sound. It is high performing on areas like detail, consistency and sound staging. I think that an email to Ortofon for clarification may be required. I'm on it. If the CB has both the WRD and FSE...well, that's brilliant! |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 24, 2023 23:05:50 GMT
Hey Oli, On a slightly less, this ones better than that or those note  How would you describe the Winfeld, not your current Ti ? did you get some good time with it, time to know it and properly evaluate ? I'm curious how you found it. And while we're at it, how are you finding the Windfeld Ti ? how does it present ? assuming you've had good time with it and go to know it. I didn't have the PW when I got the Ekta, so I can't do an aural memory based comparison due to having the Q's at the time. I'll do a review on the Ti in the coming weeks now that I am without hum, but there is a little upgrade going to happen before that, so patience is required 😉 Oakey dokes, It's a shame you didn't get properly familiar with that PW, especially with all us Ortofon mc fans here, who would have lapped up the user insight and info but hey ho that's life, you are just going to have to get properly with the Ti so you can evaluate and feedback accordingly, on what the thing is capable of and how it goes about things. For me this is priceless in terms of understanding whats going as you move along the pieces, regardless of context. I've thoroughly enjoyed the 2M Black, Quintet Black, Cadenza Black, all in a variety of context - different speakers, amps, cables etc and you really get to know what they can do and how they go about things, regardless. Once set up properly they were all a delight but the differences are there and come to mind when it comes to it. My current CB-FGS I can confidently declare as the best of the bunch, country mile / night and day talk aint the thing, they all were very capable and had a good way with presenting the music, the CB-FGS simple digs deeper, pulls more and does the good things they did in a more complete, accomplished and better way ie resolving the recorded music info in a more complete and better resolved manner. |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 24, 2023 23:08:27 GMT
BTW - I find this from a Winfeld Ti review, Absolute Sound, Sept 2018 interestingAccording to Ortofon, “the Windfeld Ti shares a similar motor design to the MC A95, where Ortofon did a lot of work to create an alloy that could be used for the armature with the least possible magnetic effect. This idea originally came from the Anna cartridge, as the armature was completely polymer based. The reason for this is because on a traditional MC cartridge, the armature’s magnetism raises the output slightly, but whenever the armature moves, it tends to distort the magnetic field that each coil sees. In the Cadenza Black, the original Windfeld, and the A95 we use a field-stabilizing element to help fix this (technical details at ortofon.com). In the A95 and Ti models, the FSE is less active and this is thought to offer a positive benefit in the linearity of the cartridge. Of course on the Anna, it’s not needed because the armature is not metal at all.” That's Interesting as I don't believe the CB has the FSE. The Bronze has the FSE, but no WRD, and the Black has the WRD but no FSE as far as I recall. Cadenza Blue: The Blue model is using a Nude FG 70 stylus with a very thin ruby cantilever. The improved winding process on the armature ensures better channel balance. The soundstage of Cadenza Blue is wide open and grandiose straight out of the box. Micro dynamic and ambience will be evident when listening to complex compositions. It reaches a very high degree of definition in the perspective, which is very present. It is true to the music with a tremendous clarity. Cadenza Bronze: The Bronze model is using a Replicant 100 stylus and a conical aluminium cantilever. The coil wire is the famous Ortofon Aucurum wire, which is a gold plated 6NX copper wire. A Field Stabilizing Element, FSE, is used for optimal linearity especially during complex crescendo passages. Cadenza Bronze is a true high-end reference cartridge, conveying music with supreme precision, impact and dynamics. Its stereo imaging capabilities illuminate the farthest corners of the soundstage in all three dimensions. Cadenza Black: The Black model is using a Nude Shibata stylus with a boron cantilever. The effective mass of the stylus/cantilever system is extremely low due to the use of a very thin boron rod. This material is extremely stiff and even more lightweight than aluminium. It also uses the WRD (Wide Range Damping-system), controlling the high and low frequency damping separately. Cadenza Black is optimized for an amazing tonal neutrality, dynamics and purity of sound. It is high performing on areas like detail, consistency and sound staging. I think that an email to Ortofon for clarification may be required. I'm on it. If the CB has both the WRD and FSE...well, that's brilliant! That has always been my understanding Olster, hence posting the piece from Absolute Sound, as I cant help but feel unsure by what they wrote in that review, although I wont mind if I'm wrong in doubting what they've printed, whist in the same breath it wont matter either way either  |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 24, 2023 23:16:18 GMT
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 23:16:33 GMT
I didn't have the PW when I got the Ekta, so I can't do an aural memory based comparison due to having the Q's at the time. I'll do a review on the Ti in the coming weeks now that I am without hum, but there is a little upgrade going to happen before that, so patience is required 😉 Oakey dokes, It's a shame you didn't get properly familiar with that PW, especially with all us Ortofon mc fans here, who would have lapped up the user insight and info but hey ho that's life, you are just going to have to get properly with the Ti so you can evaluate and feedback accordingly, on what the thing is capable of and how it goes about things. For me this is priceless in terms of understanding whats going as you move along the pieces, regardless of context. I've thoroughly enjoyed the 2M Black, Quintet Black, Cadenza Black, all in a variety of context - different speakers, amps, cables etc and you really get to know what they can do and how they go about things, regardless. Once set up properly they were all a delight but the differences are there and come to mind when it comes to it. My current CB-FGS I can confidently declare as the best of the bunch, country mile / night and day talk aint the thing, they all were very capable and had a good way with presenting the music, the CB-FGS simple does the good things they did in a more complete, accomplished and better way ie resolving the recorded music info in a more complete and better resolved manner. The standard CB is a super cart. I have heard one a few times and I never sit there thinking "oh, this could be better" It's a great listen, and I can only imagine that once you get an FGS tacked on, it becomes even better. I got familiar with that PW but the system then would not tell me as much as my system does now. The PW I hear most often is In Angus' system, and as that is different from my own, it wouldn't be right to compare the PW there to the Ti here. The Ti is something special, but getting that performance out of the cartridge is not an easy feat. The low output really puts phonostages, and entire systems to the test IMO. I'll explain more about that in the review. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 23:18:31 GMT
I think it would a huge bonus if it did, and absolutely expect me to find a used one if it does as I'd be very interested in getting one retipped to save the mileage on the TI. I have emailed Ortofon for clarity. |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 24, 2023 23:30:18 GMT
I think it would a huge bonus if it did, and absolutely expect me to find a used one if it does as I'd be very interested in getting one retipped to save the mileage on the TI. I have emailed Ortofon for clarity. FSE on the Bronze as is the Replicant but neither are on the flagship of the Cadenza series, te black, hence I am not convinced it is a deal breaker / big factor - wouldn't make sense, more than one way to skin a cat and Ortofon most certainly know what they are doing, you'd find is agreed eh !?! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 23:32:36 GMT
I think it would a huge bonus if it did, and absolutely expect me to find a used one if it does as I'd be very interested in getting one retipped to save the mileage on the TI. I have emailed Ortofon for clarity. FSE on the Bronze as is the Replicant but neither are on the flagship of the Cadenza series, te black, hence I am not convinced it is a deal breaker / big factor - wouldn't make sense, more than one way to skin a cat and Ortofon most certainly know what they are doing, you'd find is agreed eh !?! I think they did it on purpose so as not to match the PW. If they put the FSE and WRD in the Cadenza black, then the only difference is the Stylus....not even the Jubilee had both and that was the anniversary edition. |
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Post by karma67 on Mar 25, 2023 5:30:40 GMT
I think it would a huge bonus if it did, and absolutely expect me to find a used one if it does as I'd be very interested in getting one retipped to save the mileage on the TI. I have emailed Ortofon for clarity. FSE on the Bronze as is the Replicant but neither are on the flagship of the Cadenza series, te black, hence I am not convinced it is a deal breaker / big factor - wouldn't make sense, more than one way to skin a cat and Ortofon most certainly know what they are doing, you'd find is agreed eh !?! i think thats because you are labelling the black as the flagship cartrtridge,ortofon certainly dont although im happy to be shown a link where they do. Like the kontrapunkt series all the cartridges have different tonal qualities,id love to hear a blind test shoot out between the black and the bronze,id bet money on their being no clear outright winner.
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Post by antonio on Mar 25, 2023 6:21:38 GMT
karma67 I've heard a shoot-out between the Black and Bronze done by Fanthorpes at one of the shows. The Black was clearly the winner.
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Post by karma67 on Mar 25, 2023 6:44:38 GMT
karma67 I've heard a shoot-out between the Black and Bronze done by Fanthorpes at one of the shows. The Black was clearly the winner. not in my system! so nah!  you'll be telling me ns1000's sound harsh next  |
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Post by antonio on Mar 25, 2023 6:52:12 GMT
karma67 Don't forget you're using Yammies I'll do an 'Oli' and say "Calm down, I'm only joking" to get myself out of the sh#tcart.
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Post by karma67 on Mar 25, 2023 7:03:19 GMT
FSE on the Bronze as is the Replicant but neither are on the flagship of the Cadenza series, te black, hence I am not convinced it is a deal breaker / big factor - wouldn't make sense, more than one way to skin a cat and Ortofon most certainly know what they are doing, you'd find is agreed eh !?! i think thats because you are labelling the black as the flagship cartrtridge,ortofon certainly dont although im happy to be shown a link where they do. Like the kontrapunkt series all the cartridges have different tonal qualities,id love to hear a blind test shoot out between the black and the bronze,id bet money on their being no clear outright winner.
i'll just shut my mouth and get my coat lol
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 25, 2023 7:57:10 GMT
karma67 Don't forget you're using Yammies I'll do an 'Oli' and say "Calm down, I'm only joking" to get myself out of the sh#tcart. That may be said in jest, but it is the most likely reason the bronze came out on top in Jamie's system. |
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Post by antonio on Mar 25, 2023 9:51:43 GMT
karma67 Don't forget you're using Yammies I'll do an 'Oli' and say "Calm down, I'm only joking" to get myself out of the sh#tcart. That may be said in jest, but it is the most likely reason the bronze came out on top in Jamie's system. You mean because of that unrelenting treble.  I'd already guessed that. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 25, 2023 10:10:48 GMT
That may be said in jest, but it is the most likely reason the bronze came out on top in Jamie's system. You mean because of that unrelenting treble. I'd already guessed that. 😂 The NS1000 don't have relentless treble. That wasn't my experience of them when I owned a pair. |
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Post by antonio on Mar 25, 2023 14:54:24 GMT
@bigman It was my experience with them on my one and only listen, but not quite so piercing as a pair of Kudos top of the range 808? matched with Naim amps. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 25, 2023 18:18:53 GMT
This discussion has come a long way. So to add to my own comments once you modded a CB to a CB-FGS there is bugger all difference apart from the FSE to the Windfeld. Which I alluded to, but got shot down!!! So, in my system at least the FSE does bugger all, and therefore not worth the extra brass for the Windfeld. So, The Ti, or Anna are probably the next best carts up the Ortofon ladder.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 25, 2023 18:55:40 GMT
This discussion has come a long way. So to add to my own comments once you modded a CB to a CB-FGS there is bugger all difference apart from the FSE to the Windfeld. Which I alluded to, but got shot down!!! So, in my system at least the FSE does bugger all, and therefore not worth the extra brass for the Windfeld. So, The Ti, or Anna are probably the next best carts up the Ortofon ladder. I don't think the intention was to shoot down, Andrew. More, disagreed with? For you, in your system, the FSE did "bugger all" - fair enough. In other systems the FSE may, (and in my experience has) reveal it's worth. |
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Post by karma67 on Mar 26, 2023 6:38:46 GMT
this thread has got me thinking,whats my next move from the cadenza bronze,i have 2 that could be retipped or traded in with ortofon??
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 26, 2023 9:31:50 GMT
this thread has got me thinking,whats my next move from the cadenza bronze,i have 2 that could be retipped or traded in with ortofon?? So what is next? Anna? Even higher? |
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Post by rexton on Mar 26, 2023 9:34:04 GMT
this thread has got me thinking,whats my next move from the cadenza bronze,i have 2 that could be retipped or traded in with ortofon?? Ti, or Anna, you know my thoughts on Winfeld. Flog the two Bronze and put towards an old Ti/Anna. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 26, 2023 9:36:00 GMT
This discussion has come a long way. So to add to my own comments once you modded a CB to a CB-FGS there is bugger all difference apart from the FSE to the Windfeld. Which I alluded to, but got shot down!!! So, in my system at least the FSE does bugger all, and therefore not worth the extra brass for the Windfeld. So, The Ti, or Anna are probably the next best carts up the Ortofon ladder. I don't think the intention was to shoot down, Andrew. More, disagreed with? For you, in your system, the FSE did "bugger all" - fair enough. In other systems the FSE may, (and in my experience has) reveal it's worth. Oli, it's all good fun and it's actually nice to have a decent, spirited debate, I never take anything too seriously, life is far too short. |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 26, 2023 11:57:27 GMT
I don't think the intention was to shoot down, Andrew. More, disagreed with? For you, in your system, the FSE did "bugger all" - fair enough. In other systems the FSE may, (and in my experience has) reveal it's worth. Oli, it's all good fun and it's actually nice to have a decent, spirited debate, I never take anything too seriously, life is far too short. Indeed, we've been around the forums a while now and you're one of the good guys Andy |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 26, 2023 12:08:27 GMT
this thread has got me thinking, whats my next move from the cadenza bronze, i have 2 that could be retipped or traded in with ortofon?? Have to agree with Andy and say if possible, the Anna. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 26, 2023 12:52:51 GMT
Oli, it's all good fun and it's actually nice to have a decent, spirited debate, I never take anything too seriously, life is far too short. Indeed, we've been around the forums a while now and you're one of the good guys Andy +1 |
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Post by lurch on Mar 26, 2023 13:14:59 GMT
Indeed, we've been around the forums a while now and you're one of the good guys Andy +1 Anna Diamond, surely. |
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Post by karma67 on Mar 26, 2023 14:02:54 GMT
way too much money john,i suppose the smart thing would be to have one of the bronzes retipped. |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 26, 2023 14:09:56 GMT
Anna Diamond! - Blimey ! Jamie won the lottery or something - lol Not heard one but from what I do know the original Anna is a cracking, excellent cart, I'd have one if ever I had that kind of dough to indulge it (one day). It offers up a slightly more tonally rich presentation which I believe is said in the context of Ortofon's usual approach and their other top offerings, which tend to be very very neutral, clean, dry even. With that in mind, after the slightly warmer tonal presentation of the Bronze, which many do appreciate, would be the right move in my view. For example Michael Framer, in Stereophile 2008, wrote "The Ortofon Windfeld might be the most tonally neutral cartridge I've ever auditioned..." I believe the A90, A95 etc are more that usual Ortofon way, whereas the stock Cadenza Black carried a touch of smoothness, the CB-FGS is definitely more tonally neutral to my ears, as in the music doesn't come out from a place of any particular warmth or richness per say |
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Post by mayebaza on Mar 26, 2023 15:12:27 GMT
Heard the Anna about four years ago at an Ortofon/Project Demo at Audio Affair in Brum. I recall back to back Demos of the Candenza v the Anna. IMHO the Anna is a significant upgrade over the Candenza.
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How would you describe the Winfeld, not your current Ti ? did you get some good time with it, time to know it and properly evaluate ? I'm curious how you found it.
you'll be telling me ns1000's sound harsh next 
