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Post by antonio on Mar 23, 2023 14:02:10 GMT
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Post by antonio on Mar 23, 2023 18:08:36 GMT
I see Jamie is being tempted.  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 23, 2023 18:46:53 GMT
I see Jamie is being tempted. Deep pockets required for a PROPER retip. Good luck to him. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 24, 2023 7:08:11 GMT
I see Jamie is being tempted. Deep pockets required for a PROPER retip. Good luck to him. True, straight back to Ortofon. You can't buy the Replicant profile and Ortofon ceased supplying them years ago. I believe better profiles exist. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 7:26:29 GMT
Deep pockets required for a PROPER retip. Good luck to him. True, straight back to Ortofon. You can't buy the Replicant profile and Ortofon ceased supplying them years ago. I believe better profiles exist. That's interesting Andrew. Which ones? |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 24, 2023 10:11:31 GMT
True, straight back to Ortofon. You can't buy the Replicant profile and Ortofon ceased supplying them years ago. I believe better profiles exist. That's interesting Andrew. Which ones? Was going to ask the same Andy. From what I believe, the Replicant and Fritz Gyger S are pretty much the same, having very long and narrow large contact area, hence why the Fritz Gyger S is used to re-tip or upgrade a lot of the top Ortofons as does Killian Bakker, who used to work for Ortofon. The Cadenza Black, for instance is a different cart after a Fritz Gyger S re-tip, I found digs out even more inner detail and textural info. Both the Replicant and Fritz Gyger S are very top draw profiles, hence Ortofon use the Replicant on all it's best carts. Although whilst the £2K Cadenza Bronze gets the Replicant, the now £2.4K Cadenza Black doesn't and gets the Shibata profile instead. So the Replicants are Cadenza Bronze then from the £3.8k Windfeld Ti, right up to its MC Century @ £8.5k |
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 10:16:13 GMT
That's interesting Andrew. Which ones? Was going to ask the same Andy. From what I believe, the Replicant and Fritz Gyger S are pretty much the same, having very long and narrow large contact area, hence why the Fritz Gyger S is used to re-tip or upgrade a lot of the top Ortofons as does Killian Bakker, who used to work for Ortofon. The Cadenza Black, for instance is a different cart after a Fritz Gyger S re-tip, I found digs out even more inner detail and textural info. Both the Replicant and Fritz Gyger S are very top draw profiles, hence Ortofon use the Replicant on all it's best carts, and that's the ones above the Cadenza Black, (which uses the Shibata). So from the £3.8k Windfeld Ti, right up to its MC Century @ £8.5k The replicant IS an FGS. There may be some variation in polishing levels, I don't know, but it's 100% the same profile, and in my opinion is totally unsurpassed. |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 24, 2023 10:23:26 GMT
Was going to ask the same Andy. From what I believe, the Replicant and Fritz Gyger S are pretty much the same, having very long and narrow large contact area, hence why the Fritz Gyger S is used to re-tip or upgrade a lot of the top Ortofons as does Killian Bakker, who used to work for Ortofon. The Cadenza Black, for instance is a different cart after a Fritz Gyger S re-tip, I found digs out even more inner detail and textural info. Both the Replicant and Fritz Gyger S are very top draw profiles, hence Ortofon use the Replicant on all it's best carts. Although whilst the £2K Cadenza Bronze gets the Replicant, the now £2.4K Cadenza Black doesn't and gets the Shibata profile instead. So the Replicants are Cadenza Bronze then from the £3.8k Windfeld Ti, right up to its MC Century @ £8.5k The replicant IS an FGS. There may be some variation in polishing levels, I don't know, but it's 100% the same profile, and in my opinion is totally unsurpassed. My thoughts to a T and from the extensive stuf i've read over the years, as well as talking to Killian back when my Cadenza B was re-tipped with the FGS - stunning and a no brainer for re-tip if you can get that profile. As you say Replicant / FGS are top draw. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 24, 2023 11:07:00 GMT
Fill your boots. www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22894&sid=bb43d3ec7c38c23ca21f08f8028b423cI'm sure Fritz Geiger do a stylus profile with 120um stylus tip radius. I've learned many things in this hobby and one of them is not to rely too heavily on specs/stats. The Windfeld is a more technically advanced cart than my Cadenza Black, but not by much. You can change the Azimuth on the Windfeld. The only differences I can see are the following :- Channel Seperation is 0.6db better. channel seperation is at 1Khz is marginally better Frequency reponse is 20Khz less, black only goes upto 60Khz (I think) And a few other bits and pieces. Is the Windfeld really worth the premium? The only difference is the Stylus profile. My Black had new damping system installed, widest stylus profile available, and new Boron cantilever. It cost SIGNIFICANTLY less than a Windfeld whilst being marginally less spec'd. I can tell NO difference between what I own now and a Windfeld. I'll keep the black and not worry about trying to climb higher up the Ortofon ladder just yet, or suffer from a case of FOMO. A Ti or a Anna might be a different prospect as these have completely different tech. My ideal ortofon cart would be something using their latest melting process for cartridge body constrction, pure silver coils, and Audiotechnica's latest all one piece diamond/cantilever construction with the widest possible stylus profile diameter. I CAN DREAM! |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 24, 2023 11:30:20 GMT
Yes, I've digested that VE info too many times to remember over the years - I do need to get out more, lol, but actually great info. I agree Re: The Re-tipped Cadenza Black with FGS and the other little things involved. Regardless of the technical additions, channel separation of a Windfeld, Ti or otherwise. Having lived with mine for some time now, with different amps, cables, ancillaries etc I can say wholeheartedly that I could easily live with one forever, just excellent ! even more so, considering what you get for the money = a massive no brainer IME/IMO. Not sure how many times you can re-tip a cart but I'll go same again, come the time, if I can, until mine falls to pieces  |
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Post by phonomac on Mar 24, 2023 12:42:39 GMT
<img src=" !["gygerS"]() " alt="" style="max-width:100%;"> ![]() ![]() ![]()  Referring to the drawing above (which I posted previously in December 2021) the major radius at the working point of an FGS stylus varies from 75 microns to 120 microns. The effective major radius at any instant depends on the width of the groove and therefore how deeply the stylus sits in the groove. The Ortofon Replicant (which is an FGS stylus) has at times been referred to as a Replicant 80 and a Replicant 120. The 100 designation most closely fits the typical working conditions. Needlestein (cartridge_retipper) like to refer to his as an FGS120 however on several occasions he has displayed a lack of knowledge about the detail of some cartridges (especially Ortofon). That is to take nothing away from his skills as a restorer of cartridges. There is no such thing as an FGS120. There is only one FGS profile. A Cadenza Black does not have a Field Stabilising Element fitted (which is another detail that Needlestein has never heard of). |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 24, 2023 13:00:12 GMT
<img src=" !["gygerS"]() " alt="" style="max-width:100%;"> ![]() ![]() ![]() Referring to the drawing above (which I posted previously in December 2021) the major radius at the working point of an FGS stylus varies from 75 microns to 120 microns. The effective major radius at any instant depends on the width of the groove and therefore how deeply the stylus sits in the groove. The Ortofon Replicant (which is an FGS stylus) has at times been referred to as a Replicant 80 and a Replicant 120. The 100 designation most closely fits the typical working conditions. Needlestein (cartridge_retipper) like to refer to his as an FGS120 however on several occasions he has displayed a lack of knowledge about the detail of some cartridges (especially Ortofon). That is to take nothing away from his skills as a restorer of cartridges. There is no such thing as an FGS120. There is only one FGS profile. A Cadenza Black does not have a Field Stabilising Element fitted (which is another detail that Needlestein has never heard of). Great info! and clears up some misconception/misinformation. Also the 100 designation makes a lot of sense too. Really like the science behind the FSE, and why I'd consider a worn Winny of some kind, to FGS re-tip. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 13:00:15 GMT
<img src=" !["gygerS"]() " alt="" style="max-width:100%;"> ![]() ![]() ![]() Referring to the drawing above (which I posted previously in December 2021) the major radius at the working point of an FGS stylus varies from 75 microns to 120 microns. The effective major radius at any instant depends on the width of the groove and therefore how deeply the stylus sits in the groove. The Ortofon Replicant (which is an FGS stylus) has at times been referred to as a Replicant 80 and a Replicant 120. The 100 designation most closely fits the typical working conditions. Needlestein (cartridge_retipper) like to refer to his as an FGS120 however on several occasions he has displayed a lack of knowledge about the detail of some cartridges (especially Ortofon). That is to take nothing away from his skills as a restorer of cartridges. There is no such thing as an FGS120. There is only one FGS profile. A Cadenza Black does not have a Field Stabilising Element fitted (which is another detail that Needlestein has never heard of). You know, I was just typing that we've been through this before...... Thanks Angus. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 24, 2023 13:37:22 GMT
Angus, I remember you posting this and this where I thought the 120 existed
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 14:47:02 GMT
Fill your boots. www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22894&sid=bb43d3ec7c38c23ca21f08f8028b423cI'm sure Fritz Geiger do a stylus profile with 120um stylus tip radius. I've learned many things in this hobby and one of them is not to rely too heavily on specs/stats. The Windfeld is a more technically advanced cart than my Cadenza Black, but not by much. You can change the Azimuth on the Windfeld. The only differences I can see are the following :- Channel Seperation is 0.6db better. channel seperation is at 1Khz is marginally better Frequency reponse is 20Khz less, black only goes upto 60Khz (I think) And a few other bits and pieces. Is the Windfeld really worth the premium? The only difference is the Stylus profile. My Black had new damping system installed, widest stylus profile available, and new Boron cantilever. It cost SIGNIFICANTLY less than a Windfeld whilst being marginally less spec'd. I can tell NO difference between what I own now and a Windfeld. I'll keep the black and not worry about trying to climb higher up the Ortofon ladder just yet, or suffer from a case of FOMO. A Ti or a Anna might be a different prospect as these have completely different tech. My ideal ortofon cart would be something using their latest melting process for cartridge body constrction, pure silver coils, and Audiotechnica's latest all one piece diamond/cantilever construction with the widest possible stylus profile diameter. I CAN DREAM! I am not going to criticise an Ortofon Cadenza Black, as i think it's a very fine cartridge in standard form. I have only heard the Ti and PW carts in systems that either Angus or I own, and the difference when used in those systems is worth the money. Nothing, not even a fully reconditioned Ortofon Vienna with WRD, FSE and new FGS stylus could get near it, and that cart had more of the Hi-End tech in it than a CB. An A90 will be visiting one of those systems soon, so we should have an even better idea of where it stands. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 24, 2023 15:12:49 GMT
I stand by my opinion.
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 24, 2023 15:59:35 GMT
Fill your boots. www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22894&sid=bb43d3ec7c38c23ca21f08f8028b423cI'm sure Fritz Geiger do a stylus profile with 120um stylus tip radius. I've learned many things in this hobby and one of them is not to rely too heavily on specs/stats. The Windfeld is a more technically advanced cart than my Cadenza Black, but not by much. You can change the Azimuth on the Windfeld. The only differences I can see are the following :- Channel Seperation is 0.6db better. channel seperation is at 1Khz is marginally better Frequency reponse is 20Khz less, black only goes upto 60Khz (I think) And a few other bits and pieces. Is the Windfeld really worth the premium? The only difference is the Stylus profile. My Black had new damping system installed, widest stylus profile available, and new Boron cantilever. It cost SIGNIFICANTLY less than a Windfeld whilst being marginally less spec'd. I can tell NO difference between what I own now and a Windfeld. I'll keep the black and not worry about trying to climb higher up the Ortofon ladder just yet, or suffer from a case of FOMO. A Ti or a Anna might be a different prospect as these have completely different tech. My ideal ortofon cart would be something using their latest melting process for cartridge body constrction, pure silver coils, and Audiotechnica's latest all one piece diamond/cantilever construction with the widest possible stylus profile diameter. I CAN DREAM! I am not going to criticise an Ortofon Cadenza Black, as i think it's a very fine cartridge in standard form. I have only heard the Ti and PW carts in systems that either Angus or I own, and the difference when used in those systems is worth the money. Nothing, not even a fully reconditioned Ortofon Vienna with WRD, FSE and new FGS stylus could get near it, and that cart had more of the Hi-End tech in it than a CB. An A90 will be visiting one of those systems soon, so we should have an even better idea of where it stands. Indeed, a nice, well liked cart in Standard form and a heck of lot sold @ £1850, I think it's current price is a bit daft @ £2.4k having lived with one. Has to be said ,and i can only speak from my own experience, not having heard the other carts you referred, that the FGS Cadenza is a very different cart to the standard CB. The standard CB is detailed and maybe a bit smooth. The FGS CB is to my ears more neutral, more dynamic, and pulls lots more detail, inner or otherwise as well as a more lifelike in terms of instrumental and vocal texture info. Hence why I could easily live with the thing forever, no problem, it's that complete, accomplished and satisfying to my ears. |
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Post by phonomac on Mar 24, 2023 16:06:12 GMT
Andrew, I have no desire to change anyone's opinion about the sound that they hear from their system. I simply want to ensure that facts (where they exist - not always in hifi!) are accurate. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 24, 2023 16:59:22 GMT
Andrew, I have no desire to change anyone's opinion about the sound that they hear from their system. I simply want to ensure that facts (where they exist - not always in hifi!) are accurate. No problem from me Angus. I've ploughed my own furrow for years. I'm happy to share my opinion for what it's worth. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 24, 2023 17:04:32 GMT
The standard CB is detailed and maybe a bit smooth. The FGS CB is to my ears more neutral, more dynamic, and pulls lots more detail, inner or otherwise as well as a more lifelike in terms of instrumental and vocal texture info.
Very good and accurate description. I could never understand why Ortofon put the replicant stylus on the bronze instead of the Black (which is supposed to be top of the line in that tier). Your honestly not missing much/if anything over a stock Windfeld. The Ti, and Anna are a different ball game. Different kettles of barracuda.
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Post by karma67 on Mar 24, 2023 17:07:27 GMT
The standard CB is detailed and maybe a bit smooth. The FGS CB is to my ears more neutral, more dynamic, and pulls lots more detail, inner or otherwise as well as a more lifelike in terms of instrumental and vocal texture info.
Very good and accurate description. I could never understand why Ortofon put the replicant stylus on the bronze instead of the Black (which is supposed to be top of the line in that tier). Your honestly not missing much/if anything over a stock Windfeld. The Ti, and Anna are a different ball game. Different kettles of barracuda.
who knows? im glad they did though,imo the bronze is the best bang for buck in the cadenza range. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 24, 2023 17:07:56 GMT
I have only heard the Ti and PW carts in systems that either Angus or I own, and the difference when used in those systems is worth the money. Nothing, not even a fully reconditioned Ortofon Vienna with WRD, FSE and new FGS stylus could get near it, and that cart had more of the Hi-End tech in it than a CB. An A90 will be visiting one of those systems soon, so we should have an even better idea of where it stands. That's because the Ti, PW and A90 are totally different technology wise compared to the standard CB, as is the Ortofon Vienna vs the standard CB. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 24, 2023 17:10:23 GMT
who knows? im glad they did though,imo the bronze is the best bang for buck in the cadenza range. Wise words Jamie. Indeed the smart money, initially was to buy the Bronze when new. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 19:17:12 GMT
The standard CB is detailed and maybe a bit smooth. The FGS CB is to my ears more neutral, more dynamic, and pulls lots more detail, inner or otherwise as well as a more lifelike in terms of instrumental and vocal texture info.
Very good and accurate description. I could never understand why Ortofon put the replicant stylus on the bronze instead of the Black (which is supposed to be top of the line in that tier). Your honestly not missing much/if anything over a stock Windfeld. The Ti, and Anna are a different ball game. Different kettles of barracuda.
I don't agree with that statement at all. I have heard the, PW and CB at length and i own a Ti and owned a PW. There is a reason I went balls out to not only get one, but two Windfelds and not a CB. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 24, 2023 20:02:57 GMT
I don't agree with that statement at all. I have heard the, PW and CB at length and i own a Ti and owned a PW. There is a reason I went balls out to not only get one, but two Windfelds and not a CB. Your missing the point. I'm commenting about my CB FGS and not a standard CB when comparing against the Windfeld, and it's in MY system not yours. Have you heard a CB FGS when comparing the Windfeld in your system? My point is that the standard Windfeld is (to my ears) is no better than a CB FGS (in my system) and not worth the premium. This is why I skewed the PW. I have stated that the Ti or might be a different prospect when comparing a CB FGS and more than likely would better a CB FGS, but we shall see. TBH I'd probably skip the Ti, and simply move upto the A90/95 or Anna if one became available.
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 20:03:49 GMT
I don't agree with that statement at all. I have heard the, PW and CB at length and i own a Ti and owned a PW. There is a reason I went balls out to not only get one, but two Windfelds and not a CB. Your missing the point. I'm commenting about my CB FGS and not a standard CB when comparing against the Windfeld, and it's in MY system not yours. Have you heard a CB FGS when comparing the Windfeld in your system? My point is that the standard Windfeld is (to my ears) is no better than a CB FGS (in my system) and not worth the premium. This is why I skewed the PW. I have stated that the Ti or might be a different prospect when comparing a CB FGS and more than likely would better a CB FGS, but we shall see. TBH I'd probably skip the Ti, and simply move upto the A90/95 or Anna if one became available.
Oh, I didn't realise you had a CB with an FGS.....that opinion makes more sense now! I still don't agree with it because having the FSE and WRD is a big part of what takes the Windfeld on another level. The CB doesn't have both, regardless of stylus profile. But yeah, it's YOUR system, so it really doesn't matter what any one else thinks 👍 If you didn't hear the difference in your system then yeah, no point spending, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth the money for someone with a different system. |
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Post by rexton on Mar 24, 2023 20:17:16 GMT
Your missing the point. I'm commenting about my CB FGS and not a standard CB when comparing against the Windfeld, and it's in MY system not yours. Have you heard a CB FGS when comparing the Windfeld in your system? My point is that the standard Windfeld is (to my ears) is no better than a CB FGS (in my system) and not worth the premium. This is why I skewed the PW. I have stated that the Ti or might be a different prospect when comparing a CB FGS and more than likely would better a CB FGS, but we shall see. TBH I'd probably skip the Ti, and simply move upto the A90/95 or Anna if one became available.
Oh, I didn't realise you had a CB with an FGS.....that opinion makes more sense now! I still don't agree with it because having the FSE and WRD is a big part of what takes the Windfeld on another level. The CB doesn't have both, regardless of stylus profile. But yeah, it's YOUR system, so it really doesn't matter what any one else thinks 👍 If you didn't hear the difference in your system then yeah, no point spending, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth the money for someone with a different system. Agreed the CB-FGS does not have FSE but my CB-FGS does have WRD. Otherwise, yeah, if one cart works better than another in a system then upgrade and be damned! |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 24, 2023 21:39:23 GMT
Hey Oli, On a slightly less, this ones better than that or those note How would you describe the Winfeld, not your current Ti ? did you get some good time with it, time to know it and properly evaluate ? I'm curious how you found it. And while we're at it, how are you finding the Windfeld Ti ? how does it present ? assuming you've had good time with it and go to know it. |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 24, 2023 22:19:01 GMT
BTW - I find this from a Winfeld Ti review, Absolute Sound, Sept 2018 interesting
According to Ortofon, “the Windfeld Ti shares a similar motor design to the MC A95, where Ortofon did a lot of work to create an alloy that could be used for the armature with the least possible magnetic effect. This idea originally came from the Anna cartridge, as the armature was completely polymer based. The reason for this is because on a traditional MC cartridge, the armature’s magnetism raises the output slightly, but whenever the armature moves, it tends to distort the magnetic field that each coil sees. In the Cadenza Black, the original Windfeld, and the A95 we use a field-stabilizing element to help fix this (technical details at ortofon.com). In the A95 and Ti models, the FSE is less active and this is thought to offer a positive benefit in the linearity of the cartridge. Of course on the Anna, it’s not needed because the armature is not metal at all.”
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 22:38:03 GMT
Hey Oli, On a slightly less, this ones better than that or those note How would you describe the Winfeld, not your current Ti ? did you get some good time with it, time to know it and properly evaluate ? I'm curious how you found it. And while we're at it, how are you finding the Windfeld Ti ? how does it present ? assuming you've had good time with it and go to know it. I didn't have the PW when I got the Ekta, so I can't do an aural memory based comparison due to having the Q's at the time. I'll do a review on the Ti in the coming weeks now that I am without hum, but there is a little upgrade going to happen before that, so patience is required 😉 |
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