|
|
Post by bencat on Jun 24, 2023 19:38:22 GMT
Right Tony the good man that he is has finished my Mutec and is sending it back to me on Monday . So fingers crossed by Wednesday it should be with me and be able to be put back in the chain . Tony guessed which of the BNC cables I sent him that I preferred and while there was little between them measurement wise he confirmed my choice did sound better . This is just the cable from my clock to the Mutec and yes it made a difference . So all of you using external clocks get those cables out and have a listen . If anyone turns up something that really sounds great let's us all know what works . Mine was a £15 item off the shelf from from a musical instrument site so a good place to start . I am going to try and shut things down and avoid fuses now . Need to hear the improvements again from adding in the Mutec and the clock before I get side tracked .
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,409
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jun 25, 2023 7:52:33 GMT
Right Tony the good man that he is has finished my Mutec and is sending it back to me on Monday . So fingers crossed by Wednesday it should be with me and be able to be put back in the chain . Tony guessed which of the BNC cables I sent him that I preferred and while there was little between them measurement wise he confirmed my choice did sound better . This is just the cable from my clock to the Mutec and yes it made a difference . So all of you using external clocks get those cables out and have a listen . If anyone turns up something that really sounds great let's us all know what works . Mine was a £15 item off the shelf from from a musical instrument site so a good place to start . I am going to try and shut things down and avoid fuses now . Need to hear the improvements again from adding in the Mutec and the clock before I get side tracked . Keep us updated on its return! |
|
|
|
Post by bencat on Jun 25, 2023 12:45:59 GMT
Afternoon Oli I promise that I will give as much feedback as I can . I only really put my system back to working yesterday because I knew the Mutec would be coming back . Listening yesterday to the dCS pair without was surprisingly quite good and not the real let down I expected . I was aware on quite a few tracks that the air had been let out of the balloon a bit in that I knew they could sound more real but it was still enjoyable .
Shame is that it is just not possible for me to have a complete side by side original Mutec alongside the upgraded one and one without an external clock . Side by side would be helpful . But audio memory is very fickle so given the gap since the system was up and working with all items in the chain I am just not going to be able to make that judgement . I also accept fully that I am invested in this upgrade and also the differences first the Mutec made and then the LB Clock . So I am of course biased that it should and will work and that it should and will sound better . Despite that it can also be true that even with the bias the sound will still be better anyway .
At the final result if this makes me smile and the music sounds better then for me that is a result . If it does what the last set of changes did then I will be very happy indeed . One thing of which I am certain is that I am very confident it will not have made it worse .
Tony you mentioned to me that you took some screen shots of my unit and I think the cables as well . As I do not have any way to add images on this site could you put them up here so others can see the results as well , much appreciated .
|
|
|
|
Post by pete on Jun 25, 2023 13:04:59 GMT
Afternoon Oli I promise that I will give as much feedback as I can . I only really put my system back to working yesterday because I knew the Mutec would be coming back . Listening yesterday to the dCS pair without was surprisingly quite good and not the real let down I expected . I was aware on quite a few tracks that the air had been let out of the balloon a bit in that I knew they could sound more real but it was still enjoyable . Shame is that it is just not possible for me to have a complete side by side original Mutec alongside the upgraded one and one without an external clock . Side by side would be helpful . But audio memory is very fickle so given the gap since the system was up and working with all items in the chain I am just not going to be able to make that judgement . I also accept fully that I am invested in this upgrade and also the differences first the Mutec made and then the LB Clock . So I am of course biased that it should and will work and that it should and will sound better . Despite that it can also be true that even with the bias the sound will still be better anyway . At the final result if this makes me smile and the music sounds better then for me that is a result . If it does what the last set of changes did then I will be very happy indeed . One thing of which I am certain is that I am very confident it will not have made it worse . Tony you mentioned to me that you took some screen shots of my unit and I think the cables as well . As I do not have any way to add images on this site could you put them up here so others can see the results as well , much appreciated . A perfect summary of what I am looking for…. “If the final result makes me smile” |
|
|
|
Post by misterc on Jun 26, 2023 11:10:22 GMT
Here go folks, Andrew's different cabling being measured from the Mutec as a dedicated word clock output @ 44.1Khz, the copper coax measures slightly better, though I had felt the black one would sound better due some observations I made later confirmed by listneing tests. Interesting when looking at the wave form (44100 hertz) with a 20 million hertz bandwidth filter which given that Nyquist stipulates at least twice the sample rate is required to make an accurate representation of the signal, then you would assume that 44.1Khz being look at over 450 times its original bandwidth would be enough to see all of any artefacts present in the signal, but NO. Look at the large rised profile at the end of the rising edge of the waveform, then view the same wave form at 2.5 Bilion hertz absolutely flat, who would have thought it eh?  just goes to show there are many things in audio that don't meet the eye and that audio anaylsers only tell part of the story.
Also some of the cables measurement with the Lecroy 75 ohm adapter, then with adapter that Andrew supplied again interesting results.
The other queston raised, does it really matter, after all our hearing is good but nothing in the universe biological can 'hear' at those frequenices (although I believe a few on the asr bulletin board can) I replaced the missing suspenion parts on Bencat's Mutec along with an image of what we do half way through the upgrade I have only removed a few of the parts involved in our enhancement programme.
|
|
|
|
Post by misterc on Jun 26, 2023 11:15:17 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by bencat on Jun 26, 2023 11:24:33 GMT
Thank you for taking the time to do this I am sure others on here as well as me are interested in in how these measurements add up compared to how they sound . I was not aware that my Mutec was missing any suspension but thank you for fixing it . UPS has said they will be delivering tomorrow so if it early on then things can be back fully working then and bedded in by Wednesday . Never asked but will your upgrades need running in ?
|
|
|
|
Post by misterc on Jun 26, 2023 12:03:12 GMT
Hello Andrew
UPS getting on top of things I see, one of five Muetc MC3's going out today, hence the overload of electronics last week, just one more to finish to day and then three more coming on Friday!
I would suggest jus leaving it on and if possible usinga signal going through it with the system off when not listening to music. Or just setting up the deicted word clock output to max this will use the most power more than the chap stated on the bottom when thwey did the DC upgrade. I also removed the the original POWER supplies connection block while I was in there. Would suggest around 120-150 hours about a solid weeks worth of use Andrew.
However I am confident you will notice a difference when first plugged in.
The other question you asked, imho the SJ main portion of the psu I supect will be improved although using the second regulator stage from the S-booster may improve things a little more.
|
|
|
|
Post by bencat on Jun 27, 2023 12:06:41 GMT
You know some days you look at yourself and just have to realise what a mess you are . UPS have notified me that my Mutec is out for delivery from early this morning . Like the big kid I am A ma so excited that the not knowing were it is and when it will be delivered is killing me . I keep going to the tracking site and seeing if there are any updates and of course there are not .
I am 66 not six but it just does not seem to matter , I want this here and I want to get it plugged in and listen to see what it sounds like and the wait is painful . I should be beyond this but I am not .
Ahh well good job my second system is playing really beautifully at this time and sounds as good as I have ever heard it .
|
|
optical
Moderator
BIG STAR
Be Excellent To Eachother
Posts: 1,624 
|
Post by optical on Jun 27, 2023 12:12:54 GMT
You know some days you look at yourself and just have to realise what a mess you are . UPS have notified me that my Mutec is out for delivery from early this morning . Like the big kid I am A ma so excited that the not knowing were it is and when it will be delivered is killing me . I keep going to the tracking site and seeing if there are any updates and of course there are not . I am 66 not six but it just does not seem to matter , I want this here and I want to get it plugged in and listen to see what it sounds like and the wait is painful . I should be beyond this but I am not . Ahh well good job my second system is playing really beautifully at this time and sounds as good as I have ever heard it . Possibly my favorite post ever.  |
|
|
|
Post by pete on Jun 27, 2023 12:45:26 GMT
You know some days you look at yourself and just have to realise what a mess you are . UPS have notified me that my Mutec is out for delivery from early this morning . Like the big kid I am A ma so excited that the not knowing were it is and when it will be delivered is killing me . I keep going to the tracking site and seeing if there are any updates and of course there are not . I am 66 not six but it just does not seem to matter , I want this here and I want to get it plugged in and listen to see what it sounds like and the wait is painful . I should be beyond this but I am not . Ahh well good job my second system is playing really beautifully at this time and sounds as good as I have ever heard it . Possibly my favorite post ever. Couldn’t agree more🤣 |
|
|
|
Post by bencat on Jun 27, 2023 13:09:41 GMT
Well the Mutec has landed and in less time than it should take it is all plumbed in . Turned it on an after a bit of button pressing to get things in the right place joy of joys all the lights show up correctly and with push of my finger music comes out . Okay this is just instant reaction and the first track I play is Grace Jones My Jamaican Guy 12" Remix off Prvate Life The Compass Point Sessions . This tack when done properly has some real welly . Firstly sounds like Gracie not the often flat vocal that I hear on systems not up to it . Bass is not as prominent as I remember but has more feel and texture . As I did not pick a second track it defults to random and on comes some Julie London sounds effortless and pure . Real person singing real people playing real instruments . You can hear the reverb added to give Julie depth really lovely . So far this is exactly as Tony said it would be and yes as far as I can tell this is quite a bit better than the standard Mutec with the LB Clock . The smile is big and wide at the moment Hayseed Dixie singing Black Sabbath what is not to like . Tony says this will get better after a little burn in and frankly that is hard to believe but Tony I am sure will be right . Now the hard bit would I say to other Mutec owners give this a shot in the dark ? Well if only to make more people smile then hell yes you should do it the change is not subtle , and neither is the growth in sound stage which is a shock to your ears . Sorry Tony if this just ramps up your workload but I woukd say no iffs and buts if you can pay for this upgrade do it .Listening to Jimmy Scott being backed by a big band and it is just real quavering voice and all .
|
|
|
|
Post by bencat on Jun 27, 2023 13:44:37 GMT
Oh and despite being like an over excited puppy in a butcher's shop I did keep my critical hat on . As Tony mentioned I sent him two BNC cables 50 Ohm which are for the connection between my LB Clock and Mutec . I had already said that by ear I had heard one that sounded better than the other . While the measurements did not reveal much difference Tony did say he preferred the same one as me. So to be fair I started out with my cheap preferred cable and it sounded great . Just did the change for the other hand made cable and with the upgrades it is now even easier that the other cable degrades the sound and takes away some of the life of the music . So while my hearing is not what it once was it is still quite easily able to notice differences and decide a preference . Still grinning and letting the songs was over me . Finding new things to hear and admire in lots of tracks . Now if someone can get me that lottery win this weekend I could really only down the rabbit hole and explore . Then again think I will just have a nice cold drink and let the music flow over me . Today has been a good day .
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,409
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jun 27, 2023 15:04:42 GMT
This sounds very positive.
Can you remind us of what cable you bought that you and Tony preferred?
|
|
|
|
Post by bencat on Jun 27, 2023 15:18:46 GMT
I bought these as a cheap stop gap while the ones from Pickering were being made five week lead time . They are RG58 50 Ohm antenna cable from an online site Pro Audio Systems . I find it difficult to add links using a tablet but a quick search shows the company site and they have a phone number as well . For a 1 Metre cable including postage I think it was £15 so not a hard choice . I did make the mistake of just taking this cable out without checking and presumed the Pickering cable would be better but that was not the case and it is staying in place until I see a positive from someone else for an alternative . But only at sensible money levels .
|
|
|
|
Post by misterc on Jun 27, 2023 15:27:24 GMT
Hello Andrew
Sounds like you are are a happy camper sir, the updates are not subtle for sure, it will genuinelly continue to improve in the next week or so.
Thank you for your inital thoughts Andrew
|
|
|
|
Post by stevew on Jun 27, 2023 16:44:27 GMT
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,409
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jun 27, 2023 23:15:28 GMT
This looks like a decent cable Steve. Thanks for the link. I'll have a look into it. |
|
|
|
Post by stevew on Jun 28, 2023 6:20:39 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by misterc on Jun 28, 2023 7:04:24 GMT
Today I am off for a meeting with Leo & Simon at Leo Bodnar Electronics, the have asked me along to discuss clocks with them, nice fellows  |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,409
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jun 28, 2023 9:02:45 GMT
Today I am off for a meeting with Leo & Simon at Leo Bodnar Electronics, the have asked me along to discuss clocks with them, nice fellows Bring some samples back 😂 |
|
|
|
Post by bencat on Jun 28, 2023 10:11:00 GMT
Thanks to Stevew for the link have been reading lots of the threads and they are very interesting . One thing I spotted is that they have done lots of work on testing lots of 50 Ohm cable and as well as the one Steve bought they are very positive on another cable but it needs to be constructed as it is only supplied as raw wire . Here is a link to a source of cable for the UK .
Would anyone else want to group together and buy a few metres along with 50 Ohm BNC pugs then someone construct a few ? I do not have the skills to construct these myself but would be happy to pay for the full cable for anyone that would make them up . Cost for cable is just under £10 per meter so this not going to be hugely expensive . I know Tony is busy today but wonder if he has tried this line of cable .
Added another link which should work . I notice there are three types of the same cable but not sure what the difference will be
|
|
|
|
Post by pete on Jun 28, 2023 10:26:39 GMT
Thanks to Stevew for the link have been reading lots of the threads and they are very interesting . One thing I spotted is that they have done lots of work on testing lots of 50 Ohm cable and as well as the one Steve bought they are very positive on another cable but it needs to be constructed as it is only supplied as raw wire . Here is a link to a source of cable for the UK . www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/huber+suhner,-inc./SUCOFORM_141_CU/15203198?utm_adgroup=&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMAX%20Shopping_Product_Low%20Performers&utm_term=&productid=15203198&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpNGQk9vl_wIVWfJ3Ch01Rg7IEAQYBiABEgJL7vD_BwE Would anyone else want to group together and buy a few metres along with 50 Ohm BNC pugs then someone construct a few ? I do not have the skills to construct these myself but would be happy to pay for the full cable for anyone that would make them up . Cost for cable is just under £10 per meter so this not going to be hugely expensive . I know Tony is busy today but wonder if he has tried this line of cable . Great suggestion. Link doesn’t seem to work for me. |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,409
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jun 28, 2023 11:46:43 GMT
Thanks to Stevew for the link have been reading lots of the threads and they are very interesting . One thing I spotted is that they have done lots of work on testing lots of 50 Ohm cable and as well as the one Steve bought they are very positive on another cable but it needs to be constructed as it is only supplied as raw wire . Here is a link to a source of cable for the UK . www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/huber+suhner,-inc./SUCOFORM_141_CU/15203198?utm_adgroup=&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMAX%20Shopping_Product_Low%20Performers&utm_term=&productid=15203198&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpNGQk9vl_wIVWfJ3Ch01Rg7IEAQYBiABEgJL7vD_BwE Would anyone else want to group together and buy a few metres along with 50 Ohm BNC pugs then someone construct a few ? I do not have the skills to construct these myself but would be happy to pay for the full cable for anyone that would make them up . Cost for cable is just under £10 per meter so this not going to be hugely expensive . I know Tony is busy today but wonder if he has tried this line of cable . |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,409
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jun 28, 2023 11:48:35 GMT
shorturl.at/dlC25You'll have to excuse me, but why are we looking at this specific cable? If its explained elsewhere I apologise but I'm snowed under today.
|
|
|
|
Post by bencat on Jun 28, 2023 11:49:03 GMT
Hi Pete changed the link and added a couple more which should work . Not sure what the difference is but the last one has a seven week lead time . Perhaps those with better knowledge will comment and point us in the right direction .
|
|
|
|
Post by bencat on Jun 28, 2023 11:53:42 GMT
Afternoon Oli
It is linked to the thread stevew posted on the audiostandard . I have read through some of this and they have been as I was linked to the LB Clock by Tony and they have then done some tests with different cables which showed up the one stevew chose and which Tony suggested might well be a good option . Later in the thread they come up with this cable and they seem to be very keen on it and the up lift in sound it gives . Have not read right to the end yet to see if they have found any others but will post if I do see anything after I have finished . It is very noticable that they all seem to have the came reaction we have with the addition of an external clock except this time it is mainly linked to the LB that I have .
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,409
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jun 28, 2023 12:16:53 GMT
Afternoon Oli It is linked to the thread stevew posted on the audiostandard . I have read through some of this and they have been as I was linked to the LB Clock by Tony and they have then done some tests with different cables which showed up the one stevew chose and which Tony suggested might well be a good option . Later in the thread they come up with this cable and they seem to be very keen on it and the up lift in sound it gives . Have not read right to the end yet to see if they have found any others but will post if I do see anything after I have finished . It is very noticable that they all seem to have the came reaction we have with the addition of an external clock except this time it is mainly linked to the LB that I have . Ah OK.... I'm certainly up for a group buy. Count me in. I know firebottle has the necessary equipment to make these up, so if he's happy to lend them to me, I'll make them up.... If the cost of a couple of meters of this cable and some bncs are covered on my behalf? Seems like a fair offer? |
|
|
|
Post by bencat on Jun 28, 2023 12:50:28 GMT
Well got to the end of the thread and there is quite a bit to read . This is mainly dealing with the LB used in to the Gustard DAC . Listed another cable that was offered up as a good 50 Ohm option but seems to be quite hard to find in the UK . Sent an e-mail to the listed UK Dealer just to see if either he would consider direct supply or has a UK customer he can link me to . Sadly as I am not a business and do not want large quantities these things are often a dead end , but if you do not ask then you do not get . While the thread is 16 pages long it is worth reading or even skimming through as there is lots of stuff which seems to chime very closely with what we are hearing as well .
Harmonic Technology Digital Copper III
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,409
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jun 28, 2023 14:32:14 GMT
Well got to the end of the thread and there is quite a bit to read . This is mainly dealing with the LB used in to the Gustard DAC . Listed another cable that was offered up as a good 50 Ohm option but seems to be quite hard to find in the UK . Sent an e-mail to the listed UK Dealer just to see if either he would consider direct supply or has a UK customer he can link me to . Sadly as I am not a business and do not want large quantities these things are often a dead end , but if you do not ask then you do not get . While the thread is 16 pages long it is worth reading or even skimming through as there is lots of stuff which seems to chime very closely with what we are hearing as well . Harmonic Technology Digital Copper III Harmonic Technology Digital Copper III Now I'm Interested |
|
just goes to show there are many things in audio that don't meet the eye and that audio anaylsers only tell part of the story.
