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Post by rexton on Dec 2, 2022 19:25:19 GMT
It might be worthwhile doing something to treat that Velux window you've got, maybe something to cover it. It's a reasonable sized reflective surface in your space.
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Post by dwaindibly on Dec 3, 2022 7:04:08 GMT
They're all pretty much the same, Van Damme is as good as any. Instead of a Y lead I'd get a £20 Chifi matchbox DAC and feed it via the optical out from the Wiim. would the dac be better in the wiim or the chifi ? And does using the 3.5 output on the wiim spoil the SQ This one any good FiiO Taishan D03K Digital and Analog Audio Decoder (Coaxial, Optical) amzn.eu/d/3E5dpKP |
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Post by lurch on Dec 3, 2022 8:29:57 GMT
Chifi is short for Chinese hifi (cheapo stuff).
A DAC like the Taishan will definitely be better than a Y lead. The Taishan is a very sweet sounding little DAC, I use one with the singing Jaffa-cake that is the CCA (Chrome Cast Audio) in my 2nd system. I power the Taishan & CCA from a single 5v Linear power supply (using a 1:2 USB splitter) sounds epic for the £78 all 3 items cost me 2 years ago.
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Post by dwaindibly on Dec 3, 2022 8:48:58 GMT
What would be better with my current set up? the cheap dac and power supply or should I save up and get a better dac as I can manage with just the wiim for a while
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Post by dwaindibly on Dec 3, 2022 8:55:06 GMT
Better dac option Topping E30 II DAC HiFi 2 x AK4493S Amplifier Direct Mode Decoder for USB/Coax/Opt Inputs Stereo Digital Audio Decoder PCM 32bit 768kHz DSD512 Native Black amzn.eu/d/bOfj0T7 |
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Post by lurch on Dec 3, 2022 9:43:48 GMT
I would say the Taishan (run from std smps) would sort you for a year or 2 + easily sold on. If you really wanted a 5v LPS at a later date I have a couple here spare that could run the Wiim (assume is 5v) and Taishan simultaneously.
Just keep things simple for the moment, save your ££s then revisit in 6 months or a year, when you've had a chance to listen and evaluate where you are.
You currently have £150 invested in kit, adding the Wiim + DAC and a LPS will take you to circa £300. This will provide serious enjoyment, VFM, and be the best £300 you will spend on your system. Everything after that changes the balance of the performance Vs cost equation, don't be to hastey to climb up the ladder, it's expensive and addictive.
Up until 2016 I'd had my 1st proper hifi for 29yrs, decided, following an inheritance, that I deserved a little upgrade after all that time. Yeah right. I now have about £60k (rrp) of kit in my main rig (bought for 1/3rd of the price used) but in no way does it show the £58.5k difference. My original system is now my 2nd system and still gives me 80%+ of my main rig.
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Post by macca on Dec 3, 2022 10:01:18 GMT
Better dac option Topping E30 II DAC HiFi 2 x AK4493S Amplifier Direct Mode Decoder for USB/Coax/Opt Inputs Stereo Digital Audio Decoder PCM 32bit 768kHz DSD512 Native Black amzn.eu/d/bOfj0T7That's what I use (except I have the mark one) - does D to A conversion perfectly, there's no point spending more on a DAC unless you need additional features. Run it off a mobile phone charger, there's no benefit to using a fancy power supply. |
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 3, 2022 10:24:21 GMT
Better dac option Topping E30 II DAC HiFi 2 x AK4493S Amplifier Direct Mode Decoder for USB/Coax/Opt Inputs Stereo Digital Audio Decoder PCM 32bit 768kHz DSD512 Native Black amzn.eu/d/bOfj0T7That's what I use (except I have the mark one) - does D to A conversion perfectly, there's no point spending more on a DAC unless you need additional features. Run it off a mobile phone charger, there's no benefit to using a fancy power supply. Umm. I guess I have to be polite?  I think some of macca's statements would not be agreed with by many folks here! What?! Who said it was complete load of b#llocks? We can't have that sort of language here, you know! |
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Post by macca on Dec 3, 2022 10:54:05 GMT
That's what I use (except I have the mark one) - does D to A conversion perfectly, there's no point spending more on a DAC unless you need additional features. Run it off a mobile phone charger, there's no benefit to using a fancy power supply. Umm. I guess I have to be polite? I think some of macca's statements would not be agreed with by many folks here! What?! Who said it was complete load of b#llocks? We can't have that sort of language here, you know! with a digital source, providing there are no issues with gain staging or impedance matching, the sound quality will depend entirely on the loudspeakers and the room. That's it. I have given my advice and god knows I wish it was the advice I had been given thirty odd years ago when I started. David is free to take it or leave it, I will say no more. |
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Post by lurch on Dec 3, 2022 11:38:51 GMT
I might have agreed with you macca, a few years back as I had a pimped CA DacMagic Plus feeding a standard Node, couldn't tell the difference between them so sold the CA. Nor could I tell the difference between the Nodes DAC, an RME, Chord Quetest or FiiO Taishan. Once I'd pimped the Node I certainly noticed the difference between it and the Taishan (better all round) and a mk1 Jolida Glass fx (even better) which I subsequently had pimped and have subsequently upgraded to my current pimped Black Ice Glass fx DSD.
About 2 months ago I put the Taishan back in circuit to use its 24/192 abilities on spdif, it didn't stay in long. The sound was very muddy, with a constricted soundstage, minimal instrument separation and ill defined bass. Sorry macca, all DACs are not created equal.
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Post by macca on Dec 3, 2022 12:38:14 GMT
I might have agreed with you macca, a few years back as I had a pimped CA DacMagic Plus feeding a standard Node, couldn't tell the difference between them so sold the CA. Nor could I tell the difference between the Nodes DAC, an RME, Chord Quetest or FiiO Taishan. Once I'd pimped the Node I certainly noticed the difference between it and the Taishan (better all round) and a mk1 Jolida Glass fx (even better) which I subsequently had pimped and have subsequently upgraded to my current pimped Black Ice Glass fx DSD. About 2 months ago I put the Taishan back in circuit to use its 24/192 abilities on spdif, it didn't stay in long. The sound was very muddy, with a constricted soundstage, minimal instrument separation and ill defined bass. Sorry macca, all DACs are not created equal. I'm not disputing the validity of your own experiences, but I do not get 'Very muddy sound , with a constricted soundstage, minimal instrument separation and ill defined bass.' If I did you could bet your ass I'd be getting new equipment in an instant. On the contrary I get startlingly clear sound, astonishing instrumental separation, tight bass that is different tone and timbre with each different recording, and a sound that sems to exist completely independently of the loudspeakers. Yes, all with a DAC that cost £140 Nothing is pimped and there is no foo (fancy mains cables, fancy power supplies, 'isolation' devices, grounding boxes, external clocks etc etc) deployed at all. I very rarely hear systems that are all-round better and when I do it is quite obviously because the room and/or speakers are better than what I have. So where does that leave us? |
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Post by antonio on Dec 3, 2022 13:21:33 GMT
I don't think any of my dac's have sounded muddy until I've compared it to a better one. We never have thought you could get any better than a dCS Paganini with clock, it was so much better than the Debussy and along comes the Rossini.
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Dec 3, 2022 13:54:58 GMT
I don't think any of my dac's have sounded muddy until I've compared it to a better one. We never have thought you could get any better than a dCS Paganini with clock, it was so much better than the Debussy and along comes the Rossini. I agree Dave. These discussions are all based on highly subjective judgements. It can make for some interesting discussion, but it is impossible to know how 'muddy' one persons perception of a given piece of equipment is a given system/room could be. Like you say, it is all relative and based on one's experience. I thought my hifi was highly resolving and amazing some 30years ago and it's since moved on through 100s of upgrades. My current system will likely sound very muddy in comparison to my new planned system. |
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Dec 3, 2022 13:58:37 GMT
I might have agreed with you macca, a few years back as I had a pimped CA DacMagic Plus feeding a standard Node, couldn't tell the difference between them so sold the CA. Nor could I tell the difference between the Nodes DAC, an RME, Chord Quetest or FiiO Taishan. Once I'd pimped the Node I certainly noticed the difference between it and the Taishan (better all round) and a mk1 Jolida Glass fx (even better) which I subsequently had pimped and have subsequently upgraded to my current pimped Black Ice Glass fx DSD. About 2 months ago I put the Taishan back in circuit to use its 24/192 abilities on spdif, it didn't stay in long. The sound was very muddy, with a constricted soundstage, minimal instrument separation and ill defined bass. Sorry macca, all DACs are not created equal. I'm not disputing the validity of your own experiences, but I do not get 'Very muddy sound , with a constricted soundstage, minimal instrument separation and ill defined bass.' If I did you could bet your ass I'd be getting new equipment in an instant. On the contrary I get startlingly clear sound, astonishing instrumental separation, tight bass that is different tone and timbre with each different recording, and a sound that sems to exist completely independently of the loudspeakers. Yes, all with a DAC that cost £140 Nothing is pimped and there is no foo (fancy mains cables, fancy power supplies, 'isolation' devices, grounding boxes, external clocks etc etc) deployed at all. I very rarely hear systems that are all-round better and when I do it is quite obviously because the room and/or speakers are better than what I have. So where does that leave us? I'll look forward to hearing your system one day, I've heard good things about it. |
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Post by dwaindibly on Dec 4, 2022 9:01:07 GMT
Definitely won't be spending 💰💰💰 ever!!! I'll save up and go for the topping and a power supply then that will be it !!! Been experimenting a lot and I think I've got it sounding great don't know anything about how sound stage depth and all that should sound but when I listen the sound seems to come from inbetween the speakers in the centre is this correct? or should I toe the speakers out a bit and or move them further apart ? at the moment there toed in to just over my shoulders
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Post by electronumpty on Dec 4, 2022 9:32:55 GMT
Definitely won't be spending 💰💰💰 ever!!! I'll save up and go for the topping and a power supply then that will be it !!! Been experimenting a lot and I think I've got it sounding great don't know anything about how sound stage depth and all that should sound but when I listen the sound seems to come from inbetween the speakers in the centre is this correct? or should I toe the speakers out a bit and or move them further apart ? at the moment there toed in to just over my shoulders Don't get too hung up on the "proper" way of doing it. Just experiment with different speaker positions to see what you prefer sound wise. It's your system and enjoyment, where you have them sounds fine for a starter and reference point if you try different places though. It's part of the fun, experimenting. 🙂 |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Dec 4, 2022 9:35:46 GMT
Definitely won't be spending 💰💰💰 ever!!! I'll save up and go for the topping and a power supply then that will be it !!! Been experimenting a lot and I think I've got it sounding great don't know anything about how sound stage depth and all that should sound but when I listen the sound seems to come from inbetween the speakers in the centre is this correct? or should I toe the speakers out a bit and or move them further apart ? at the moment there toed in to just over my shoulders Speakers should be fine as they are Dwain. Just enjoy the music for a bit, then have another play in the New Year. What sort of music do you like, mate? I'm only asking because I'm nosey  |
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Post by macca on Dec 4, 2022 9:38:18 GMT
Definitely won't be spending 💰💰💰 ever!!! I'll save up and go for the topping and a power supply then that will be it !!! Been experimenting a lot and I think I've got it sounding great don't know anything about how sound stage depth and all that should sound but when I listen the sound seems to come from inbetween the speakers in the centre is this correct? or should I toe the speakers out a bit and or move them further apart ? at the moment there toed in to just over my shoulders Ideally the sound should 'exist' in the space between the speakers, it should not sound like it is coming out of the speakers. Simplest approach is that if there is nothing bugging you about the sound, and you are enjoying it, then it is right. |
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Post by macca on Dec 4, 2022 9:43:56 GMT
I'm not disputing the validity of your own experiences, but I do not get 'Very muddy sound , with a constricted soundstage, minimal instrument separation and ill defined bass.' If I did you could bet your ass I'd be getting new equipment in an instant. On the contrary I get startlingly clear sound, astonishing instrumental separation, tight bass that is different tone and timbre with each different recording, and a sound that sems to exist completely independently of the loudspeakers. Yes, all with a DAC that cost £140 Nothing is pimped and there is no foo (fancy mains cables, fancy power supplies, 'isolation' devices, grounding boxes, external clocks etc etc) deployed at all. I very rarely hear systems that are all-round better and when I do it is quite obviously because the room and/or speakers are better than what I have. So where does that leave us? I'll look forward to hearing your system one day, I've heard good things about it. You always welcome to drop in if you are in this neck of the woods. I regret I am not much for the hobby of continual pursuit of 'veil lifting'. it's certainly a hobby but it's not mine. My view is there is a limit to how 'good' it can possibly get, and that limiter is speakers and room, I find the idea that the limiter can be the DAC to be risible. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 4, 2022 9:45:00 GMT
I'll look forward to hearing your system one day, I've heard good things about it. You always welcome to drop in if you are in this neck of the woods. I regret I am not much for the hobby of continual pursuit of 'veil lifting'. it's certainly a hobby but it's not mine. My view is there is a limit to how 'good' it can possibly get, and that limiter is speakers and room, I find the idea that the limiter can be the DAC to be risible. Do you not think some DACs are better than others? Or that the limit in a DACs performance is way beyond the limits of any speaker/room? |
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Post by dwaindibly on Dec 4, 2022 10:22:05 GMT
Definitely won't be spending 💰💰💰 ever!!! I'll save up and go for the topping and a power supply then that will be it !!! Been experimenting a lot and I think I've got it sounding great don't know anything about how sound stage depth and all that should sound but when I listen the sound seems to come from inbetween the speakers in the centre is this correct? or should I toe the speakers out a bit and or move them further apart ? at the moment there toed in to just over my shoulders Speakers should be fine as they are Dwain. Just enjoy the music for a bit, then have another play in the New Year. What sort of music do you like, mate? I'm only asking because I'm nosey My music taste is quite eclectic Ste from 90s dance/ trance and indie to country and hip hop 😜my favourite bands are James and the prodigy to name but a few I listen to all sorts |
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Post by macca on Dec 4, 2022 10:50:08 GMT
You always welcome to drop in if you are in this neck of the woods. I regret I am not much for the hobby of continual pursuit of 'veil lifting'. it's certainly a hobby but it's not mine. My view is there is a limit to how 'good' it can possibly get, and that limiter is speakers and room, I find the idea that the limiter can be the DAC to be risible. Do you not think some DACs are better than others? Or that the limit in a DACs performance is way beyond the limits of any speaker/room? some DACs have high enough noise and distortion that it's borderline audible, they won't sound 'bad' but there is a chance they will sound subtly different. Enough that someone might prefer that DAC over another. But yes, in general the speakers and room will have sufficient imperfections that most DACs will not make any audible difference despite what we may perceive when comparing them without any controls. - of course you can get edge cases where there is a mis-match in gain or impedance and that will skew the sound quite obviously, but that's not really the 'sound' of the DAC that we are hearing, just bad component matching. That's true in general for all the electronic components in a system. Regrettably we are all conditioned by years of reading the magazines that everything has its 'own sound' and we listen for that expecting to hear it, and so we do. That's why my I give my advice above - if there's nothing irritating or obviously wrong about the sound then just relax and enjoy. Constant FOMO is no fun and I don't personally find the crusade to lift more and more veils fun either. Some people seem to lift veils on an almost weekly basis and I wonder how bad their system must have sounded right at the start for that to be really true. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 4, 2022 11:12:02 GMT
I agree on the idea that a DAC that measures really well is unlikely to detrimental, but I still think things like ouput stages, power supplies and design have a bearing on how they sound.
However, I see the point that you'd be far better off spending £5k on speakers/amp than you would on a DAC.
I agree with that.
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Post by macca on Dec 4, 2022 11:35:44 GMT
I agree on the idea that a DAC that measures really well is unlikely to detrimental, but I still think things like ouput stages, power supplies and design have a bearing on how they sound. They will have a bearing but it's nothing that cannot be quantified. If the DAC has inaudible levels of distortion and noise on its analogue output then that's it - you've taken all those things you listed into account. Now what else about it can make it sound different? This is why I won't spend thousands on a DAC even though I could. At best it can only be slightly different from what I have. Just not worth it to me unless it has features I want or I just really like what it looks like. I know someone will say 'Oh but DCS Rossini' or 'Chord Dave' or whatever, but I've had a listen to systems with these DACs and they weren't doing anything special, and deffo not ten grand plus special. Emperor's new clothes. |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Dec 4, 2022 12:17:49 GMT
I hate it when the grown ups argue  I reckon that competent electronics and speakers that work with the room gets you 90% there. The rest is just tweeks imo. |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Dec 4, 2022 12:20:39 GMT
I hate it when the grown ups argue I reckon that competent electronics and speakers that work with the room gets you 90% there. The rest is just tweeks imo. Dwain is putting some serious effort into getting the fundamentals right, without throwing loads of money at it. Something many of us could benefit from, certainly me |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Dec 4, 2022 12:24:17 GMT
Speakers should be fine as they are Dwain. Just enjoy the music for a bit, then have another play in the New Year. What sort of music do you like, mate? I'm only asking because I'm nosey My music taste is quite eclectic Ste from 90s dance/ trance and indie to country and hip hop 😜my favourite bands are James and the prodigy to name but a few I listen to all sorts Exactly the same as my music tastes! Apart from hip hop. And country. And Indie. And James |
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Post by macca on Dec 4, 2022 13:05:56 GMT
I hate it when the grown ups argue I reckon that competent electronics and speakers that work with the room gets you 90% there. The rest is just tweeks imo. That's pretty much what I'm saying. Check this out - effect on the sound of having a coffee table between you and the speakers - pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/coffee-tables-in-listening-rooms.274398/(warning - contains graphs) And yet we are going to spend thousands upgrading the DAC? Or worry about the differences between interconnects? I have spent many hours fretting about my coffee table, I justify it since although it has a ceramic top and is very reflective (bad) it's usually totally covered in junk so is really more of a diffuser (good). Plus I like to put my feet up on it. |
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Post by antonio on Dec 4, 2022 14:41:14 GMT
macca Buy yourself a pouffe or a recliner chair. 
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Dec 4, 2022 15:41:45 GMT
Put a nice big cushion on your coffee table to absorb some of the hf, and also it'll be comfier for your heels.
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