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Post by dwaindibly on Nov 24, 2022 10:48:22 GMT
Hi all just saying hello I've just started out so I'm looking for advice I have a very cheap set up at the moment as I'm on a tiny budget !!
I have a used Cambridge Audi A1 MK3 amp and a set of mission LX1s and I'm using an Amazon echo to stream music to the amp but looking to upgrade to a wiim mini soon
my problem is it's all in the apex shaped loft so speaker placement is limited. my usable speaker space is 9.4ft wide x 3ft high before the roof starts sloping I was going to put them as near to ear hight as poss on a bookshelf off the back wall by around 2 to 4 " wedged in by books then experiment with the spacing between them would this be my best option ?
Cheers
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Post by antonio on Nov 24, 2022 11:11:53 GMT
Welcome Dwain, a nice simple question to start.  I'm not sure if they need 'wedging in' on a bookshelf although you will have to do a few experiments yourself. I see they are rear ported so will benefit from a little space behind, and yes, as near to ear height as possible. You could always put something under the front of the speaker, tilting it backwards a little if the speakers are too low. |
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Post by lurch on Nov 24, 2022 11:20:27 GMT
Hi and welcome.
Yeah it's great fun being on a tiny budget (not). Even so it's surprising what low cost/free tweaks can be thought up when things are tight.
For speaker spacing I would suggest between 6 & 8 feet is more than adequate, to stop there being a 'hole' in the middle. Not sure why you want to wedge the speakers in, the cabinets should be as free as possible. Also look to get the speaker bases off of the shelf surface, 3 regular pencil erasers (the oblong ones) cut in half with 3 pieces under each of the speakers would help matters initially. You could then look at eBay/local charity shops for a pair of speaker stands. The A1 is a very nice sounding starter amp and a good base to build on and the Wiima is a very good basic streamer.
Another cheap streaming option is the ChromeCast Audio (CCA) which is made even better by adding a £10 Chifi matchbox DAC and 5V Linear power supply. I use a CCA, FiiO Taishan DAC and 5V LPSU (with a 1 to 2 USB adapter) to feed both units, and cast Radio Paradise & Qoduz to it from my phone in my 2nd system.
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Post by pete on Nov 24, 2022 11:34:11 GMT
Welcome.
Good to have you hear. Some great advice already.
Would agree with all said, and add to it that most important thing is to enjoy the sounds😁
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Post by dwaindibly on Nov 24, 2022 11:52:30 GMT
Thanks for the advice guys I've been offered some gale stands for free so I'll snap them up!! so at what distances should I put my speakers when on the stands to start with ? I've read that the rule of thumb is that they should be around 3ft from any wall etc but I'm unable to do that as they would end up only 4ft or less apart!!! And to me the bass was better closer to the rear wall
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 24, 2022 12:07:10 GMT
Hi and welcome,
I have a similar shape and problematic listening room/space also in my loft.
There's no easy fix I'm afraid, some speakers will work better than others and sometimes it's a potentially 'inferior' speaker that will sound better.
I've got a fair amount of acoustic treatment to help with these issues but mainly it's all about finding the right speaker for the job.
If you're happy with the bass 'reinforcement' from the rear wall then I wouldn't worry too much about only having less than 3ft from the side walls, you can use toe-in/out and move them forward and back a bit (independent from each other) to restore a bit of 'balance', again, trial and error will have to be employed here.
Best of luck!
Chris
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Post by lurch on Nov 24, 2022 13:42:23 GMT
Thanks for the advice guys I've been offered some gale stands for free so I'll snap them up!! so at what distances should I put my speakers when on the stands to start with ? I've read that the rule of thumb is that they should be around 3ft from any wall etc but I'm unable to do that as they would end up only 4ft or less apart!!! And to me the bass was better closer to the rear wall As long as you can get 6-8 feet centre to centre then all should be good, any additional space around them is a bonus. |
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Post by bencat on Nov 24, 2022 13:55:57 GMT
Welcome to the forum it is nearly always best with small speakers to keep them away from side walls more than the back wall . Eight to twelve inches from the back wall is often enough so start with that and then move them forward or back and see how they sound . It is always going to be a bit of a compromise but only you can say which is best for you .
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Post by macca on Nov 24, 2022 18:19:02 GMT
A bookshelf is not necessarily a bad idea, if you make sure that the speakers are totally enclosed by books, above, below and to both sides the speaker is then effectively soffit mounted.
Otherwise 9' is not a bad width, you could have a foot and a half from speaker to wall and still have them 6 foot apart outer edge to outer edge. That's better than a lot of set-ups I've seen and had myself too. My speakers are only 6 foot apart, it's not a problem (although if I was offered more width I'd take it!).
One of my brothers has those Mission speakers set up in a large kitchen, they are pretty good for the size and price.
Never been a better time in hi-fi to be on a tight budget, some very accomplished equipment out there now for beer money. Maybe not amplifiers but there's always the used market for those. The Cambridge is decent though I wouldn't worry about that until you eventually upgrade the speakers.
If you want cheap/free upgrade and you haven't already then do some room treatments, you will get a marked improvement in overall sound quality compared to a bare room.
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 24, 2022 18:58:38 GMT
My approach to your listening space would be to forget about anyone else's rules of thumb (if you ask half a dozen 'experts' there are going to be half a dozen different and contradictory ones anyway) and just start off with the speakers wherever you feel would be best and not too inconvenient. And then just adjust the position a bit from there as the situation allows and have a listen until you find a sweet spot. Some rule of thumb suggestions from me, if you want them .... - Some space behind the speakers so the rear ports can breath, - more importantly, the right distance from the back wall so the bass quantity sounds nicely balanced with the mids and high frequencies, - a symmetrical layout so the soundstage is nicely spread out (not too wide, an equilateral triangle is a good place to start, probably best if the speakers are a bit closer together than that) and central images like lead vocalists are correctly placed. - the tweeters pointing to ear height, pointing at you, as a starter. If that's too bright, rotate the speakers outward or inward a bit (whichever sounds better) as the high frequencies usually fall off to the side. This will also affect how 'focused' the sound will be. I bet it won't be very hard to get an enjoyable presentation. Could it be better? Sure, but that's always the case! A very brief perusal of this forum will show that most folks here have systems which are in a constant state of flux, with the next change or tweak always being looked for and tried out. It's part of the fun. That last word is the most important one. It's all too easy to get obsessive. If it's not fun then take up a different hobby which is fun.  |
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Post by Arke on Nov 24, 2022 19:25:46 GMT
My approach to your listening space would be to forget about anyone else's rules of thumb (if you ask half a dozen 'experts' there are going to be half a dozen different and contradictory ones anyway) and just start off with the speakers wherever you feel would be best and not too inconvenient. And then just adjust the position a bit from there as the situation allows and have a listen until you find a sweet spot. Some rule of thumb suggestions from me, if you want them .... - Some space behind the speakers so the rear ports can breath, - more importantly, the right distance from the back wall so the bass quantity sounds nicely balanced with the mids and high frequencies, - a symmetrical layout so the soundstage is nicely spread out (not too wide, an equilateral triangle is a good place to start, probably best if the speakers are a bit closer together than that) and central images like lead vocalists are correctly placed. - the tweeters pointing to ear height, pointing at you, as a starter. If that's too bright, rotate the speakers outward or inward a bit (whichever sounds better) as the high frequencies usually fall off to the side. This will also affect how 'focused' the sound will be. I bet it won't be very hard to get an enjoyable presentation. Could it be better? Sure, but that's always the case! A very brief perusal of this forum will show that most folks here have systems which are in a constant state of flux, with the next change or tweak always being looked for and tried out. It's part of the fun. That last word is the most important one. It's all too easy to get obsessive. If it's not fun then take up a different hobby which is fun. Hello and welcome dwaindibly! I agree with the above. There are many 'rules of thumb' and many opinions - what works for one room/system/speaker/listener will not work for another. You view on sound quality and bass response will be different to another's. It's a myth that no rear ported speaker can go near a wall - some can and some can't. Most speakers are more influenced by boundary reinforcement than they are from the port proximity to wall. I have used my rear-ported stand mount speakers very near to a wall (about 5cm) and there were no problems. There was some lift is bass, but that was more from boundary reinforcement.  Your best option is to try and see. Good luck! |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Nov 24, 2022 20:00:14 GMT
Stuffing the ports with bath sponges or socks might help to 'tweak' the bass to your liking too.
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Post by dwaindibly on Nov 24, 2022 20:26:52 GMT
Thanks everyone I never expected such a warm welcome!!and so much good advice😁👍
I've got the stands now I just need to pick up something to put my amp and things on as the loft space is bare at the moment it's boarded and carpeted with underlay and the roof is borded also with some form of 80s soft MDF (not asbestos) so there is some sound absorption. I will also fill the stands with sand do I use the spikes or take them off? and would a couple of paving slabs to sit the stands on be a good idea ?
Can't wait to get going now
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Nov 24, 2022 20:28:41 GMT
Thanks everyone I never expected such a warm welcome!!and so much good advice😁👍 I've got the stands now I just need to pick up something to put my amp and things on as the loft space is bare at the moment it's boarded and carpeted with underlay and the roof is borded also with some form of 80s soft MDF (not asbestos) so there is some sound absorption. I will also fill the stands with sand do I use the spikes or take them off? and would a couple of paving slabs to sit the stands on be a good idea ? Can't wait to get going now I've always found a couple of slabs will tighten things up, especially on a suspended floor. |
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Post by lurch on Nov 25, 2022 9:40:04 GMT
As a cheap solution to getting the slabs to float just above the carpet but easy to move/adjust buy a 4 pack of el cheapo Cork backed coasters (£3ish in Sainsbury) then evostick them together in pairs. Once set cut each stack in quarters and glue to bottom of corners of slab (Cork side to slab) I did this with the 30x350x550 marble slabs I use under my Martin Logan summits. Works a treat and no boominess + easy to adjust position even though the MLs weigh 35kg each.
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Post by electronumpty on Nov 25, 2022 9:51:03 GMT
Thanks everyone I never expected such a warm welcome!!and so much good advice😁👍 I've got the stands now I just need to pick up something to put my amp and things on as the loft space is bare at the moment it's boarded and carpeted with underlay and the roof is borded also with some form of 80s soft MDF (not asbestos) so there is some sound absorption. I will also fill the stands with sand do I use the spikes or take them off? and would a couple of paving slabs to sit the stands on be a good idea ? Can't wait to get going now Welcome, you're on the right place for budget advice as we're all tighter than a gnat's chuff when it comes to spending money round here. 🤣 Maybe we should start a tight budget/cost of living hifi tips thread? |
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Post by robbiegong on Nov 25, 2022 10:03:49 GMT
Thanks everyone I never expected such a warm welcome!!and so much good advice😁👍 I've got the stands now I just need to pick up something to put my amp and things on as the loft space is bare at the moment it's boarded and carpeted with underlay and the roof is borded also with some form of 80s soft MDF (not asbestos) so there is some sound absorption. I will also fill the stands with sand do I use the spikes or take them off? and would a couple of paving slabs to sit the stands on be a good idea ? Can't wait to get going now Welcome, you're on the right place for budget advice as we're all tighter than a gnat's chuff when it comes to spending money round here. 🤣 Maybe we should start a tight budget/cost of living hifi tips thread? lol and a great idea - I propose a ' VFM - Best Bang for Buck' thread |
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Post by dwaindibly on Nov 25, 2022 22:38:33 GMT
Gonna invest in some new speaker wire and banana plugs too can anyone advise me on what gauge and brand
Cheers
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Post by electronumpty on Nov 25, 2022 23:20:39 GMT
Gonna invest in some new speaker wire and banana plugs too can anyone advise me on what gauge and brand Cheers Just so you know, when asking for recommendations about kit it's best to state a rough budget of what you have to spend. That way you get lots of good realistic suggestions around your ball park figure and not stuff way out of budget. As any type of kit can go from peanuts to multiple thousands of pounds. 🙂 |
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Post by electronumpty on Nov 25, 2022 23:22:43 GMT
Also, it doesn't matter how modest etc , you'll probably get someone offering you good second hand stuff which is well looked after and at a very fair price .
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Post by lurch on Nov 26, 2022 5:37:58 GMT
Gonna invest in some new speaker wire and banana plugs too can anyone advise me on what gauge and brand Cheers For where you are at the moment I would suggest some 4mm² Van Damme hifi series and a set of Z plugs (the type with 2 screw clamps) use the rear screw to clamp the cable, remove front screw then fill the wire tunnel and hole with solder then use their screw on covers or heatshrink to finish. |
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Post by macca on Nov 26, 2022 8:06:14 GMT
Gonna invest in some new speaker wire and banana plugs too can anyone advise me on what gauge and brand Cheers 14 AWG is fine for all domestic situations, if you really want to nuke the site from orbit go to 12AWG Make sure the cable is copper and not copper clad aluminium. Otherwise your good. Plugs are plugs but obviously avoid rhodium plating. Don't touch it. Don't even look at it. |
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Post by dwaindibly on Nov 26, 2022 10:51:28 GMT
Am I allowed to post an eBay link to some cables ?
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Post by lurch on Nov 26, 2022 10:52:57 GMT
Yep
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Post by dwaindibly on Nov 26, 2022 11:34:07 GMT
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Post by macca on Nov 26, 2022 11:53:36 GMT
They look okay to me.
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Post by pete on Nov 26, 2022 12:28:54 GMT
I’ve bought from this company in the past and they have been good. That is copper cable. The plugs are branded as ‘Nakamichi’ and are as lurch described. They are brass with gold plating. They are easy to use and grip well in sockets. |
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Post by dwaindibly on Nov 26, 2022 12:43:38 GMT
Brilliant thanks I'll add them to my ever growing list I just need to finish the room now then get on with the fun part 👍
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Post by dwaindibly on Nov 26, 2022 12:59:35 GMT
Just out of interest could I double up on cable as I have a good length of symphony 300 from my old set up
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Post by dwaindibly on Nov 26, 2022 16:32:44 GMT
I've just found some Audioquest F18 cables going cheap any good ? as I can't find any info
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I'm not sure if they need 'wedging in' on a bookshelf although you will have to do a few experiments yourself. I see they are rear ported so will benefit from a little space behind, and yes, as near to ear height as possible. You could always put something under the front of the speaker, tilting it backwards a little if the speakers are too low.
