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Post by macca on Jun 1, 2020 20:04:08 GMT
Are you using the 2 output? And have you switched mono in? There's three outputs and I've tried two of them, didn't try the high gain one. Tried switching mono in and out, makes no difference, still only one channel going to the power amp. Easy to see that because of the power meters. Suppose I could try the high gain output but it should work fine on the other two so I don' see the point.
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Post by karma67 on Jun 1, 2020 20:12:38 GMT
my first port of call would be to look at the manual on hifi engine if you don't have a copy,second would be to call the guy you bought it from regardless of how honest he is,you never know you may be doing something silly,just ask him how he had it set up.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 20:24:22 GMT
Use the 2 output; it's the most direct. If the mono does nothing, the fault's between the output stage and the outputs sockets. The output muting relay might be playing up.
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Post by macca on Jun 1, 2020 21:09:00 GMT
my first port of call would be to look at the manual on hifi engine if you don't have a copy,second would be to call the guy you bought it from regardless of how honest he is,you never know you may be doing something silly,just ask him how he had it set up. I've got the manual, it's in Dutch and French. I can understand the French, just about, but there's no clues there. It's not my first rodeo, I'm pretty sure I've covered all the possibilities. I suppose I could try hooking it up to a different power amp but I can't see that being any different result.
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Post by macca on Jun 1, 2020 21:11:52 GMT
Use the 2 output; it's the most direct. If the mono does nothing, the fault's between the output stage and the outputs sockets. The output muting relay might be playing up. Tried the 2 output. I'd have thought if the muting was playing up both channels would be affected? But we're into the proper electronics there and I'm out of my depth with that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 21:31:07 GMT
Not necessarily. Switch it off and operate the mute 10 times. Won't do anything for the relay, but will clean the switch. Operate the source switch 10 times to clean it. Do the same with the others. If nothing after that - I'd change my name to "Lucky", if I was you.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 3:55:02 GMT
I was thinking it might not have been used for a while. When you swapped the leads over did you swap them over at one end, or both? If it was just one end, it could be the lead. Swap both ends over. Or try another lead if you haven't already.
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Post by macca on Jun 2, 2020 5:42:25 GMT
Not necessarily. Switch it off and operate the mute 10 times. Won't do anything for the relay, but will clean the switch. Operate the source switch 10 times to clean it. Do the same with the others. If nothing after that - I'd change my name to "Lucky", if I was you. I will try this, thanks.
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Post by macca on Jun 2, 2020 5:44:09 GMT
I was thinking it might not have been used for a while. When you swapped the leads over did you swap them over at one end, or both? If it was just one end, it could be the lead. Swap both ends over. Or try another lead if you haven't already. I swapped at one end only - but I did try with two different sets of interconnects. I've been caught out before by the fault being with the cables not the unit.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 6:53:21 GMT
You could try the headphone socket, if you have a pair.
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Post by macca on Jun 2, 2020 7:13:15 GMT
only those crappy IEM things that come with mobile phones. I'd need an adaptor too. Got one somewhere but like finding a needle in a haystack. In fact I think I gave it away to someone. I hate headphones and never use them.
Just connected up another pre-amp and that works fine so the problem is not the cables, source or power amp.
Now got the whole a/v system piled up on the living room floor so will have to re-build all of that if I want proper telly sound. What a pain!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 7:43:22 GMT
The point being to use them as a tool, not what they sound like. It would eliminate the output sockets connection.
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Post by macca on Jun 2, 2020 7:52:43 GMT
yeah I get that but I don't have an adaptor so can't connect up the ones I have. I was just explaining why I don't own 'proper' headphones.
In any case I can't fix it myself so any fault-finding would only be an academic exercise.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 2, 2020 7:53:23 GMT
yeah I get that but I don't have an adaptor so can't connect up the ones I have. I was just explaining why I don't own 'proper' headphones. In any case I can't fix it myself so any fault-finding would only be an academic exercise. Your pile of repairables is growing mate. Time to get some sorted out?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 8:10:40 GMT
yeah I get that but I don't have an adaptor so can't connect up the ones I have. I was just explaining why I don't own 'proper' headphones. In any case I can't fix it myself so any fault-finding would only be an academic exercise. Well, yes. But if there's output on the headphone socket it would tell you that effectively it's working - other than connection to the output sockets.
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Post by macca on Jun 7, 2020 10:30:40 GMT
Closing the curtains:
My room is 29 feet long with a window and door at either end, the speakers are positioned about 8 feet in to the room ('firing' down the length) and I listen from about 8 feet into the room from the other direction.
I noticed some time ago that closing the curtains on the window behind me seemed to increase sound quality quite dramatically. Depth of stereo image improved, a slight shoutiness disappeared and the sound seemed to become warmer and more three dimensional. Looking back I always seem to have been happy with the sound in the winter (when it was dark out when I'd start listening) and dissatisfied in the summer months when it was light and the curtains were open.
I inherited the curtains with the house, they were custom made and they are thermally lined (as the previous owners had not fitted double-glazing) so they are quite thick.
Okay, so no surprises there, a large window is a highly reflective surface, directly opposite the speakers, and it is going to have an audible effect.
However during the bright sunny days we have had this year I have not been closing the curtain fully but leaving about a six inch gap as it seemed a shame to block out the sunshine entirely as it is pretty rare even in the summer, especially in this part of the world. But I have noticed that even leaving this six inch gap still has a deleterious effect on sound quality and closing the curtains completely still seems to give the same improvement in the sound quality as it does when going from fully open to fully closed.
I'm not sure how this can be as with the small gap only about one sixth of the window is 'visible' to the sound waves and I would not have thought this would be enough to degrade the sound. I'm considering that it could be some sort of placebo effect. Would such a reduced area of glass still have an audible effect? Anyone got any thoughts?
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Post by antonio on Jun 7, 2020 15:35:41 GMT
I don't know the answer, but it could only happen to you the way your lucks been running.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 7, 2020 16:21:33 GMT
SQ always improves at my house with the curtains closed but for such a small gap to make a marked difference is quite surprising
Is there much difference between open a bit and wide open?
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Post by macca on Jun 7, 2020 18:05:34 GMT
Yes, appears to be a varying effect but completely closed is noticeably better than leaving the small gap.
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Post by macca on Jun 7, 2020 18:08:13 GMT
I've read a lot of people saying room treatments are one of the best upgrades they ever did, but since I've never had bass issues, with the room being large, I've never seriously considered it. This discovery has made me re-think it. If such a small thing can make a difference then a little more damping elsewhere could be revelatory.
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Post by jimbo on Jun 7, 2020 18:12:23 GMT
Acoustics are a very complicated and sensitive part of the aural experience. A good friend of mine who has a huge amount of knowledge in this area was explaining too me why he use 1000 tubes of acoustic sealant in the roof of his building so that there was not the tiniest gap available for music to leak out of. Small thin gaps in any material from glass to rockwool to curtains will affect the sound and can cause flanking.
He even has a huge rockwool batten acoustic hinged door covering in his music room as he has easily demonstrated to me the effects of an acoustic engineered room with just the door closed and then covered by the acoustic batten. Small gaps can play havoc with soundwaves. Just try and build a double glazed window without really good seals round the glass and you might not even bother with the glass!
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Post by macca on Jun 7, 2020 18:18:51 GMT
I remember you posting the pics of his room build James, he did go to some serious lengths. I could do that sort of thing in theory as there's no WAF to consider and I don't care if the place looks like a studio. But I think you need to ideally start with a blank canvas and it would be bloody expensive to go the same lengths he did. Considering ordering some of these acoustic tiles, just to have a play around with. Not expensive. www.studiospares.com/ProductDetail.aspx?p=465300
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Post by jimbo on Jun 7, 2020 18:31:08 GMT
I remember you posting the pics of his room build James, he did go to some serious lengths. I could do that sort of thing in theory as there's no WAF to consider and I don't care if the place looks like a studio. But I think you need to ideally start with a blank canvas and it would be bloody expensive to go the same lengths he did. Considering ordering some of these acoustic tiles, just to have a play around with. Not expensive. www.studiospares.com/ProductDetail.aspx?p=465300I would not bother with them, just use these.
These will do a serious job and you would not need to many in your room. Excellent for first reflections but not bass traps.
Use these for bass traps, just stick a couple in the corners on top of each other.
They can all be covered in cloth.
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Post by macca on Jun 8, 2020 8:48:11 GMT
Think I might go for a mix of those rockwool things and the panels I linked to. I can see how the rockwool would work to damp the corners of the room. I don't have any bass boom at all so I don't need bass traps but when I was clearing up I got rid of the big plant that was in one of the corners, plus some other crap that was there, and the whole corner is now barren, and I think I hear reflections coming off it. Well I'm sure I do. At first I thought it was someone making a noise outside but it wasn't. I'll try some cushions there first just as proof of concept. (Note - I have never bought a cushion in my life but I got two that came with the sofas ) Obviously the trick is not to over-damp, you kill the fat and you kill the burger. The wall behind the speakers is mostly covered with the same curtains as the front window except they are full length and go from the floor pretty much to the ceiling, so will cover the exposed area there, and the same with the back wall. Corner where the front door is (opposite end of room to speakers) does echo, always has, so will put some of the acoustic slab panels on the door itself. I won't be covering the rockwool with fabric because I can't be arsed to do that and cosmetics is not a consideration. Don't know about the ceiling, they say it is important. It's quite high compared to modern houses, nine and a half feet. It's heavily artexed so must have some diffraction effect all by itself. In some places it's half an inch deep. Took a lot of paint when I last painted it. But sticking things to it will be a problem as the uneven surface probably won't give much contact area for the glue. Might leave that for now. Anyone got a recco for some glue to stick these panels up with? Anyway first things first. Need to rebuild the TV system as it is still spread all over the floor from last week's mucking about with the Black Tulip and move all the excess gear upstairs. Once that's done will order some of this acoustics stuff.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 8, 2020 9:06:22 GMT
Proof of concept is always a good idea.
Spray adhesive for carpets would work, but could get messy and you'l be off your tits on the fumes. So not all bad lol
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Post by jimbo on Jun 8, 2020 9:52:47 GMT
I used some rolled up duvets in the corner as temporary Bass Traps just to see the difference. If you dont need bass traps the Rockwool Battens will sort your room out very quickly and they are nice and easy to move - very light. They are THE most effective acoustic panels you will buy and are way cheaper than any "Manufactured" acoustic panels.
If you are not bothered about appearance then they will be a very quick solution. Just need to get them delivered if you have not got a car as they are reasonably large. I recon 4 would sort your room.
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Post by antonio on Jun 8, 2020 9:54:02 GMT
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Post by jimbo on Jun 8, 2020 9:56:34 GMT
Cushions may not be dense or big enough and can be expensive....not that I buy cushions very often!
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Post by macca on Jun 8, 2020 9:58:32 GMT
All true, Dave, the answer is only sleep when you go to bed Anyway found summat better than cushions, big roll of loft insulation I had lying about for years:
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Post by macca on Jun 8, 2020 9:59:37 GMT
That's about 2 feet in diameter, would tight and secured with duct tape.
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