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Post by dsjr on Jul 9, 2019 19:23:57 GMT
I sometimes worry about you, Dave. I would have thought the two golden maxims relating to hi-fi would be kept ever present - PP & CB. Personal Preference: you like what you like - which may not be to others' tastes. Component Bonding: how well an item bonds with the rest of the system. Best to keep an open mind here,if possible, with regards previous encounters. Look at young Westie, for example. The Roksan Tabriz never got the lickings of a dog from him from previous outings. Now... he's as happy as Larry with it. A lesson there for us all, I think. Anyway, how do you recollect the Meridian 103 power amp? I've just bought one, shagged, naturally. Well it was only £60. I have the matching preamp which also requires attention. Have some M3s, too. Also needing attention. I'm permanently worried about me 
I had a superb stereo and sold the best part (large-ish active monitors) for marital space reasons decades ago. I've never had anything to touch it since and currently, the speakers I have (which I can't sell at present) just don't suit the room and music tastes at all well, so I depress myself and moan about it - apologies. Macca's right about good big speakers, but he's single and can please himself I think.
We sold many Meridian 103's and although not hugely powerful, we liked them a lot. M3's always sounded small to me, but if not played too loudly, were nice enough and clear in the mids as 'actives' seem to be naturally. I wasn't so keen on the 105's which the reviewers loved, as it sounded hard toned to me and was praised in HFC books despite this aspect being mentioned. The 101 is anyone's guess as the very first were good, the mid models with 'IMCOS' module wasn't (I believe it was a cost saving exercise despite supposedly measuring better) but the 101b was very good when I heard one.
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Post by macca on Aug 20, 2019 11:14:23 GMT
The Krell KSA50S is fixed and being soak tested at the moment. Might get it back this weekend. Then - it's Krell Shoot-out time! KSA50S vs KSA100Mk2!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 20, 2019 12:59:08 GMT
What about Krell bi-amp time?
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Post by dsjr on Aug 20, 2019 13:04:27 GMT
They're too different I fear. The 50S will probably be a little more like the amps Oli's playing with now I reckon. All good fun though.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 13:31:12 GMT
Find yourself with more amps than you need? Time to go active  |
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Post by macca on Aug 20, 2019 14:01:55 GMT
Active with two Krells would be fun wouldn't it? God knows what the leccy bill would look like though.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 20, 2019 14:20:20 GMT
I have very fond memories of Jimmy's tri-Krell 50 active Isobariks. His odd listening room was perfect for these as the upward facing drivers did a lot more work than in most people's homes - sitting 3 to 4m back, we were on axis with the front top edge of the speakers. I gather he messed with the amps, removing fuses and so on, making them nearly lethal I gather and it took a fair cost (at Ab Sounds rates) to restore at least one of them so HFN could do an appreciation of it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 14:48:22 GMT
Active with two Krells would be fun wouldn't it? God knows what the leccy bill would look like though. At least the spinning of the meter would keep them cool Go on, you know you want to..... |
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Post by macca on Aug 20, 2019 15:34:31 GMT
One will probably be going up for sale, the question is - which one...?
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Post by dsjr on Aug 20, 2019 16:58:32 GMT
One runs cool and low consumption when idling and the other one is flat out all the time.. Mind you, on your salaries it probably doesn't matter  |
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Post by antonio on Aug 20, 2019 18:31:37 GMT
They're too different I fear. The 50S will probably be a little more like the amps Oli's playing with now I reckon. All good fun though. I've read of folk using different brands to bi-amp, ie Krell for bass, valve amp for mids/treble.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 19:48:55 GMT
One will probably be going up for sale, the question is - which one...? I think the KSA100. The KSA50S Is a more neutral sound and I know that floats your boat. Fast, nimble and bags of power. A rally car with enough torque to twist the road beneath it. The KSA100 is like a limo, big sounding, smooth and effortless with undertones of delicacy and seduction. The Ultimate machine for comfortable listening. Thankfully, you'll not lose on either. When I advertised it, a fella asked me to let him know if you changed your mind. I'll pass on his details if it is the KSA100 |
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Post by macca on Aug 24, 2019 20:03:47 GMT
Not a bad analogy.
I suspect I might prefer the KSA100 without those boutique caps you put in. I might be wrong but I think they are responsible for the sound being on the smooth side of neutral. I notice you said that when you originally re-capped it you thought it was a bit too toppy so then you put the Audionote caps in an preferred it. But that was with your Pioneer speakers. The JM Labs are so much more 'polite' sounding.
Although that could be bollox. Only way to tell would be another re-cap.
Not making a decision until I've done the back to back. Even then I'm tempted just to keep one as a spare. You don't come across amps of that quality every day. And it's almost certainly better than money in the bank.
I see someone got a very good deal on that Aragon. Amazing that you can buy amps of that standard for beer money but most people out there are still chasing after the usual overpriced tat instead.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 22:30:01 GMT
Not a bad analogy. I suspect I might prefer the KSA100 without those boutique caps you put in. I might be wrong but I think they are responsible for the sound being on the smooth side of neutral. I notice you said that when you originally re-capped it you thought it was a bit too toppy so then you put the Audionote caps in an preferred it. But that was with your Pioneer speakers. The JM Labs are so much more 'polite' sounding. Although that could be bollox. Only way to tell would be another re-cap. Not making a decision until I've done the back to back. Even then I'm tempted just to keep one as a spare. You don't come across amps of that quality every day. And it's almost certainly better than money in the bank. I see someone got a very good deal on that Aragon. Amazing that you can buy amps of that standard for beer money but most people out there are still chasing after the usual overpriced tat instead. If you want me to put some NOS original caps in, let me know. They aren't too much money. Could put some standard Panasonic in, I think I have 4. I did say that it was different when i swapped the caps. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 22:31:37 GMT
Oh, yes the Aragon is a cracker. Convinced me I needed a change.
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Post by macca on Aug 25, 2019 10:08:17 GMT
Not a bad analogy. I suspect I might prefer the KSA100 without those boutique caps you put in. I might be wrong but I think they are responsible for the sound being on the smooth side of neutral. I notice you said that when you originally re-capped it you thought it was a bit too toppy so then you put the Audionote caps in an preferred it. But that was with your Pioneer speakers. The JM Labs are so much more 'polite' sounding. Although that could be bollox. Only way to tell would be another re-cap. Not making a decision until I've done the back to back. Even then I'm tempted just to keep one as a spare. You don't come across amps of that quality every day. And it's almost certainly better than money in the bank. I see someone got a very good deal on that Aragon. Amazing that you can buy amps of that standard for beer money but most people out there are still chasing after the usual overpriced tat instead. If you want me to put some NOS original caps in, let me know. They aren't too much money. Could put some standard Panasonic in, I think I have 4. I did say that it was different when i swapped the caps. Is it only 4 caps? I thought it was about 12. Don't know why. That would be good if you fancy doing it. My EE like fixing stuff but not modding, I think he is pretty anti-foo. I know Les from Avondale uses different types of cap and resistor depending on how much 'attack' he wants in the sound, I've seen other amp designers say the same thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 10:15:14 GMT
If you want me to put some NOS original caps in, let me know. They aren't too much money. Could put some standard Panasonic in, I think I have 4. I did say that it was different when i swapped the caps. Is it only 4 caps? I thought it was about 12. Don't know why. That would be good if you fancy doing it. My EE like fixing stuff but not modding, I think he is pretty anti-foo. I know Les from Avondale uses different types of cap and resistor depending on how much 'attack' he wants in the sound, I've seen other amp designers say the same thing. It's only 4 BUT it's about 40 screws to get to them lol. Sure, happy to do it Macca. Just pick which ones you want, I'll get the value for you so you can choose. Be a bit later, I'm off out in a minute. |
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Post by macca on Aug 25, 2019 10:23:22 GMT
I've no idea about capacitor brands Ollie. What would be the closest thing to what was in there originally?
It's just that little bit of softness on transients that I want rid of. It just slightly dulls the ring of cymbals and the hit of snares. We're not talking a big difference, it's the slightest of things, but it bugs me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 14:40:45 GMT
I've no idea about capacitor brands Ollie. What would be the closest thing to what was in there originally? It's just that little bit of softness on transients that I want rid of. It just slightly dulls the ring of cymbals and the hit of snares. We're not talking a big difference, it's the slightest of things, but it bugs me. These are the original brand of caps that were in the AMP. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-pcs-Siemens-EK-47uF-16V-electrolytic-capacitors-BAKELITE-same-as-ROE-ERO/253527249716?hash=item3b0766d334:g:K-IAAOSwzJ5XYAidI was told to get them out due to a high failure rate but they were still bang on value wise when they came out and Alan measured them. These would return the amplifier to factory standard, the way it was designed. You can get a varied result from various brands IME so it's up to you. The Panasonic's i fitted weren't as smooth as the AN ones according to memory, but like i say, it's all about what you hear. None of them are expensive to try and if one doesnt suit but makes enough difference to deem a bit of experimentation worth while, can always fit others. |
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Post by dsjr on Aug 25, 2019 15:31:40 GMT
Macca, why do you ignore my experiences of these ancient Krell amps? The first thing done in the replacement 80 and 160 was to put a bit of 'sparkle' in to the perceived sonics. The caps Oli replaced won't make a damned bit of difference to the basic sonic 'flavour' of the 100mk2 I swear, as the entire topology was to give this amp a 'big yank car' kind of almost rolling gait and at the time, I called it slightly 'foggy/cloudy' when compared to the lightning fast DNM power amp with which I directly compared a 50 to. These Krells did it better than some (the Threshold Stasis were similar I remember) and with a gentle powerful refinenent so beloved of High End back then, but didn't seem to turn on a sixpence like the bolt-up Naims used to. The KSA80 *when new and used for a couple of years,* had the tactile quality to it I found in the 50S. The later FPB comes somewhere in the middle but these aren't so reliable now I gather and need work... I suspect the best prosumer amps back then may well have been certain Bryston models although maybe only the later ones. Crowns (DC300Amk2) weren't on the domestic market by then but having heard one a few times (I want it when/if it becomes available) it again has a kind of 'velvet glove' approach and maybe isn't as 'tactile' as the better less powerful amps around (the Sonneteer Alabaster is delightful for this but not a powerhouse). In the 90's, pre Harman Levinson was seen to be clearly 'better' than any Krell I gather, but because HFN weren't permitted to review Levinson amps (I know the story second hand so maybe it's not right to post it), levinson was ignored by all but a 'few who knew' while the Ab Sounds portfolio was raved about all over...
Unknown to me, but again, the Orchard and Neurochrome amps may well point the way to what a top amp should sound like - and the earlier Krells were designed for a market I believe that didn't want strict neutrality - when they did go that way, all the sheep used a warm tinged ARC preamp to soften the sound up...
Look chaps, I can only say the Sh#t I do after looking back and with the hindsight of fifty years of this damned audio hobby I'm welded (soldered) to, man and boy! I'd like to have heard an Adcom 555 and similar alternatives to crown and so on and I'm now very bitter how a jumped up 50's PA amp range (Naim) with then, really bad preamps driving them (32.5 and the ghastly veiled 42 and 62 models) were deemed state of the art in so many UK dealers including mine! The preamp alternatives then were the even more coloured ARC models and again, when ARC did a FET preamp (SP14 and 16), the cognoscenti didn't like them as much, so back to warm toned valves they went (the SP8 and 10 were truly dire in terms of high fidelity to the original signal, but people loved the silky sweet warm tones including reviewer/guru Martin Colloms, who knew where his bread was buttered - and who by - by then I feel)
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Post by macca on Aug 25, 2019 17:50:08 GMT
Macca, why do you ignore my experiences of these ancient Krell amps?
I wasn't aware that I was! It's my theory that the Audionote caps are just taking away some sheen off the top end. It's the slightest of things but it bugs me. If I change them for the originals and it makes no difference then I guess that's just how the amp sounds. But there's only one way to find out. When was the last time you heard a KSA100Mk2 and in what context? |
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Post by dsjr on Aug 26, 2019 12:13:41 GMT
Some years back I admit and into a variety of speakers from Arcam 2's to Isobariks to SBL's to the Impulse 2's I think, but do they really change that much over time? The 50 and 100 had a slight 'sound' that was changed in the 80 and 160 (why westie doesn't like the later ones so much I suspect) and which hardened up even further in the 250 and last issue models before the plateau biasing range took over. The recent Vanguard model keeps the 'unburstable' quality but with crystal clarity imo - no harshness but no 'fog' either...
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 26, 2019 12:37:40 GMT
Some years back I admit and into a variety of speakers from Arcam 2's to Isobariks to SBL's to the Impulse 2's I think, but do they really change that much over time? The 50 and 100 had a slight 'sound' that was changed in the 80 and 160 (why westie doesn't like the later ones so much I suspect) and which hardened up even further in the 250 and last issue models before the plateau biasing range took over. The recent Vanguard model keeps the 'unburstable' quality but with crystal clarity imo - no harshness but no 'fog' either... I really didn’t like the original 100 either. Only the original KSA 50. The 100 is a “dead behind the eyes” amp imo. Others have said the same, so there must be some difference that is important to me and some others. |
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Post by macca on Aug 28, 2019 11:37:18 GMT
KSA50S is fixed! Collecting it tonight after work!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 12:51:53 GMT
I borrowed a Krell KSA100 donkies years ago. I was using a Sumo 'Polaris' i think it was. Preferred the Sumo.. This was the time that i thought i was smart venturing into the world of American Hi-End.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 12:54:28 GMT
KSA50S is fixed! Collecting it tonight after work! Great news. Now the time for comparison is upon you! |
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Post by macca on Aug 28, 2019 13:04:09 GMT
I borrowed a Krell KSA100 donkies years ago. I was using a Sumo 'Polaris' i think it was. Preferred the Sumo.. This was the time that i thought i was smart venturing into the world of American Hi-End. I know I'm smart venturing there  One of the best sounds I've ever heard with the 50S in play, certainly the best sound I've ever had myself. |
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Post by macca on Aug 28, 2019 13:05:42 GMT
KSA50S is fixed! Collecting it tonight after work! Great news. Now the time for comparison is upon you! Yep. Hopefully the 50S hasn't changed with the repair. I am a bit worried that what I liked about its sound was a side -effect of it being faulty.... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 13:07:34 GMT
Not saying they do not sound good cos they do but the first thing that comes out of folks Gobs when the subject of Hi-End comes up is KRELL.. i liked the smoothe sound of the Sumo. I also liked the old McIntosh.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 13:14:03 GMT
Not saying they do not sound good cos they do but the first thing that comes out of folks Gobs when the subject of Hi-End comes up is KRELL.. i liked the smoothe sound of the Sumo. I also liked the old McIntosh. I think Krell deserve that though. They do make good kit. The very few Krells I have heard have delighted me. The KSA100 MK2 is a smooth listen. Being synonymous with 'hiend' is their thing. There are others too. |
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One of the best sounds I've ever heard with the 50S in play, certainly the best sound I've ever had myself.