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Post by stevew on Sept 28, 2021 7:10:33 GMT
Okay, how about I rephrase that then? 'Private (home) users have reported very positive results with this device. A credible explanation (to my satisfaction) of reduced jitter (improved signal), has been offered by those far more knowledgeable than myself, which I am happy to accept.' More happier?? No. As I keep pointing out, reduced jitter is not an acceptable explanation. Without the Mutec these DACS have jitter distortion at around -120dB. To say that is audible is like saying you can hear someone shouting to you from 2000 kilometres away. That's how absurd a claim that is. If it's not audible before the Mutec goes in then how much the Mutec reduces jitter (either by none or a couple of dB depending on the DAC) is irrelevant. It's either doing some thing else -which no-one has offered an explanation for - or it's doing nothing. In that situation the best place to start is a blind test. Find out if it really is making a change first, then look for explanation. My suspicion is that the elusive soundstage improvements would vanish like the morning dew once the listener does not know if the Mutec is in the chain or not. Don't underestimate the power of the mind to play tricks. It's well proven. Wish you’d mentioned this before, I could have saved myself grand. |
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Post by optical on Sept 28, 2021 7:28:26 GMT
Okay, how about I rephrase that then? 'Private (home) users have reported very positive results with this device. A credible explanation (to my satisfaction) of reduced jitter (improved signal), has been offered by those far more knowledgeable than myself, which I am happy to accept.' More happier?? No. As I keep pointing out, reduced jitter is not an acceptable explanation. Without the Mutec these DACS have jitter distortion at around -120dB. To say that is audible is like saying you can hear someone shouting to you from 2000 kilometres away. That's how absurd a claim that is. If it's not audible before the Mutec goes in then how much the Mutec reduces jitter (either by none or a couple of dB depending on the DAC) is irrelevant. It's either doing some thing else -which no-one has offered an explanation for - or it's doing nothing. In that situation the best place to start is a blind test. Find out if it really is making a change first, then look for explanation. My suspicion is that the elusive soundstage improvements would vanish like the morning dew once the listener does not know if the Mutec is in the chain or not. Don't underestimate the power of the mind to play tricks. It's well proven. Yes but that's looking at it from a single minded perspective and assuming that distortion figures are the only result and function of a reduction in jitter. Have you ever considered that a reduction in jitter or something else for that matter may result in a more pleasing presentation of the music, not measurably 'audible'. Like two saxophones blasting away at exactly the same db, one is Kenny G and the other is Ken Barlow, measurably the same. Do they sound the same . . . unlikely. Also the reduced jitter is not the only factor potentially able to improve the sound of the DAC here. My logic suggests to me that reducing the 'work' the clocks in the DAC have to do (by being presented with a better source signal) could result in an audible (to EARS!) improvement. "Reduced jitter" is not an acceptable explanation to you. If the device does affect the specs and output and peoples ears report positives, then that indicates to me that good things are happening. I don't feel compelled to try and 'debunk' any mystery surrounding it, not merely because I don't understand the in's and out's of digital reproduction, but because I can live with things 'just sounding better'. You're absolutely correct on the mind playing tricks, but I'm happy for that to happen if it continues to sound good to me, that's by far the most important part of what makes my system enjoyable. Basing things too much in the scientific realm its easy to turn into a hifi cynic and just forever critique equipment/tracks etc. By sticking 100% to scientific logic the whole time, I'd be in a Tesla . . . is it quicker than my current car (an important aspect to me) absolutely, does it stimulate my senses and add enjoyment to the act of driving, heck no. Sorry I'm going off topic there, but I hope you get what I mean. It's a bit of an ignorance being bliss mentality and slightly knowing your mantra that probably annoys you which I totally get. I like things to be explained too but I'm also willing to accept that not everything can be and I'm okay with that. Just for the record I have never actually cited there being any 'proof' etc, just potentially correct explanations, although of course I am interested in finding out exactly what this device (which has almost unanimous praise so far) does or indeed does not do to garner the attention of people whom do not impress that easily. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2021 7:40:09 GMT
No. As I keep pointing out, reduced jitter is not an acceptable explanation. Without the Mutec these DACS have jitter distortion at around -120dB. To say that is audible is like saying you can hear someone shouting to you from 2000 kilometres away. That's how absurd a claim that is. If it's not audible before the Mutec goes in then how much the Mutec reduces jitter (either by none or a couple of dB depending on the DAC) is irrelevant. It's either doing some thing else -which no-one has offered an explanation for - or it's doing nothing. In that situation the best place to start is a blind test. Find out if it really is making a change first, then look for explanation. My suspicion is that the elusive soundstage improvements would vanish like the morning dew once the listener does not know if the Mutec is in the chain or not. Don't underestimate the power of the mind to play tricks. It's well proven. Wish you’d mentioned this before, I could have saved myself grand.  Well, If it is all a figment of my imagination, it would also have to be a figment of Alan's too. Remember, he heard it in his system where it didn't make a good impression, to then knocking his (and my) socks off at my house. I did not say a word to Alan, i did not influence him, we just played music and then i removed it. His previous experience of the unit was one of dissapointment, now he's on the verge of buying one himself! |
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Post by firebottle on Sept 28, 2021 7:43:19 GMT
FFS Martin. This sounds very close to you calling Oli and myself liars. I personally am getting pissed off with your reluctance to accept that people can differentiate when a change occurs, sighted or not. The improvement (or change in the case of the 1312) was easily heard when the Mutec was in circuit compared to when it wasn't, that's 3 different Dacs.. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2021 8:29:41 GMT
firebottle - A little tale: After the neighbour had contracted a man of vintage years to fit an aerial to his chimney, i asked for his number as my mother needs her aerials replacing. He then proceeded to tell me "I got his number from a guy at the church, so he is trustworthy" I must have pulled my face in a way that indicated i have no time for religion, as he instantly said "oh, not a believer?" Well, no i am not, but my face pulling was at the presumtion that because he is a church goer, he is automatically trustworthy. I know it's an unrelated subject, but i think it fits this issue well. macca is not just going to take someones word as a creditable source. I didn't with the aerial guy. He's also not just going to trust the opinion of the guy standing to make money from selling them, even if he is an expert EE....makes sense. I wouldn't/don't either. What can't happen is that you become ignorant/intolerant of the possibility that you could be wrong. Whilst it's ok for anyone to think "this lot are mad" It's not ok to tell people they aren't hearing what they describe. That is actually in the rules here. It's about respecting the opinions of others. I don't think Macca has said we are imagining it. I think he said that he doesnt buy the explaination of what the Mutec is doing and you have to be aware of the power of the mind. He also said that blind testing would remove the so called improvement. However as i stated previously, blind testing is not as good at showing differences in hifi performance as it is at preventing people from being able to make decisions or comitting to answers with confidence. Look at blind test food tasting for an example of this. In theory the loss of one sense should improve the others, yes? They give them Cola, cheese and all sorts of everyday food stuff, yet they become unable to make decisions or even find the hole in the front of their face. There is a reason blindfolding people is the first step in torture too. It disorients people and they lose the ability to think properly due to the deprivision of senses. Also, turns out that losing one sense in the short term can be incredibly effective at disrupting all the others. these people have been putting food in their mouths since they were born. Put a blind fold on them and they are sticking forks in their eyes . The principle is the same. People, when faced with uncertainty and then JUDGEMENT on their performance, lose the ability to think and the ability to be brave. Blind testing fails for this reason IMO. Thats scientific fact btw...not my opinion. As for the device, i believe that there is more to what is going on than just a reduction in distortion. Possibly an improving of timing that is reaping rewards. I have been reading a lot and the timing is the issue most talk about, but normally introducing another variable makes it worse. Could just be that the Mutech is making a better fist of the timing than the streamer and thats the benefit. I don't mind that macca thinks this is all bullshit. I don't mind because it doesnt matter. I have a Mutec, I like the Mutec and the influence it has had on my system. I like the sound my system makes with it in place and for me it is increasing the level of enjoyment i get from the music i love. As i stated earlier on, i only ever report what i hear. Thats all you can do, and i think over the last 6-7 years that i have been very honest, and generally any advice i have offered to people has increased their enjoyment of their own system. Some items in hifi cause pushback. Obviously this is one of them!
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Post by optical on Sept 28, 2021 8:42:58 GMT
What's the name of this forum? . . . .
AUDIO . . . . yes that's right.
The result of which is a passionate attachment to hifi and gear.
That's all that's happening in this instance, and that's fine, absolutely fine with me.
We're all smart enough to continue the debate I think, a bit of disagreement is bound to arise but my point is it all stems from a passionate place, and that's always going to sit well with me.
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Post by misterc on Sept 28, 2021 10:04:11 GMT
Well oddly enough I can see both points of view 100% yes really absolutely. Martin's steadfastness is part of his rational and so far has seen nothing to change his mind on paper or graph wise. From the normal forum's point of view we heard listened to it ad we accapt that we can delineate a positive and REAPTABLE difference. Mr.C is firmly watching from 3.2 parsecs away twiddling his resolution bandwidth turned to max So my personal stance comes about from years of playing about with various so called tweaks and finding some really do make a difference but because no one COULD offer an explanation as to why this was it was a case of let sleeping dogs lie. Well I personally would have not invested more than a house purchase in the equipment I have now to really dig dep into all aspects of audio reproduction and way beyond for other electronics we are involved in. Jitter has been bandied about for decades in digital audio, originally when the first CD players dropped in 83, they were worse than naim for SQ, that was blamed on poor jitter attenuation over the years. It has improved immeasurably over the years without question, to a place now where serval dac really use PROPER dedicated custom design 33fs enclosed clocks specifically for timing dac digital filter arrays and dac sections. Quite remarkable. Martin's thoughts are correct and his graphs back this up, we test the majority of digital test usually in four areas 0dbfs / -20dbfs / -40dbfs / -60dbfs these are the levels of output of the device under test being driven via a quality signal generator usually @ 1Khz. Now the acceptable rule in audio for many years has been anything below 120s/n is pretty irrelevant. As it will not physically be heard so why bother its pointless? So quite why all this new slew of 'measurefi' equipment that amir and wolfpack are blowing smoke up it's proverbial back passage via the usual stock dac chips/op amps and basic psu, I know we can skew the filter to make it read another 3dB less. Outstanding work Simpkins that get them all running for the Topping/Gustard click and buy page. Again so why is the latest dac another 3-9 points up the SINAD ladder then if its all a lot of pointless blow harding? Martin could also correct with his observation when you are that far down in noise floor how can you possibly cannot hear those/any changes? Well I would suggest then the three hundred of so Mutec users that I deal with are clearing deluding themselves and wasting their own hard earned cash on a pointless exercise in adding another box that one does nothing and is clearing making false representation regarding the product as an form of jitter reduction (or other parameter that may or may not be affected) I would never suggest to another person its all in your mind regardless of whether it pretrained to a purchase or not (Except where naim is concerned its just plain cack!) that’s not anything I would do. There are many measurable parameters to enable you to electrically look at a dac, the usual s/n, SINAD, linear response curve, impulse response and J test (jitter) etc. A linearity plot demonstrates the dac ability to produce a well balanced and even handed sound, for myself this give a more truer representation of the finial result, backed up whe you LISTEN to the device in question imho. Jitter is simply a measurement of time nothing more or less, however its implications can be far reaching in many digital designs (not just audio) and a lot of time, money and research is spent on managing, removing and controlling jitter in everyday walks of like ad devices. The full serial data analysis plots I posted last night are incredibly comprehensive and are an industry leading standard by Teledyne Lecroy, a fully loaded AP555x analyser is around £30K give or take another £10K for dummy passive loads for headphone and class ‘d’ amplifier testing. It is regarded as an industry standard test piece and in THE right hands is very good indeed. However to put this into perspective, the software app for the SDA III dual lane analysis package, correct probes and scope cost far in excess of that price and the capabilities are far greater. They are designed for two different area of EE, but there is cross over in a quite a few. I also have an R&S Swartz UPV66 with ALL of the options, its not quite as reference as the AP555x but it more than sufficient to identify any of the measurefi dac’s and amps that are being churned out currently lol www.rohde-schwarz.com/uk/products/test-and-measurement/audio-analyzers/rs-upv-audio-analyzer_63493-7558.htmlBack to the OP, this device (Mutec MC3+usb) has many thousands of followers all over the world (Other DDC brands are available from other vendors) it is a proven product it can deliver many benefits in many systems imho. Oli please feel to delete this one of you feel it is not appropriate. This is some feedback from Professor Malcolm Hawksford with regard to his experiences with Mutec products:
“Always enjoy a knowledgeable discussion with Anthony... he has his "finger on the pulse" and is expert in electronics and system measurement. Supplied Mutec products for jitter reduction and these have exceeded my expectation. Also quality of service, advice and support was of the highest order and very professional.”Just to show you guys something of interest, below is an FFT plot of my current personal dac, its respectably low, but not ultra-down in the MUD, has a few harmonics spurs more than the usual suspects plus a linearity plot. From this you can ascertain it is a competent device, but by looking at the graphs the amir rabid dogs squad would laugh, I am happy to invite anyone along for a laugh and a compare to any dac. Numbers and figures are a tool to help you decide on what or which way your design needs to improve or adjust to, listening is the final arbiter   |
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Post by misterc on Sept 28, 2021 10:33:16 GMT
firebottle - A little tale: After the neighbour had contracted a man of vintage years to fit an aerial to his chimney, i asked for his number as my mother needs her aerials replacing. He then proceeded to tell me "I got his number from a guy at the church, so he is trustworthy" I must have pulled my face in a way that indicated i have no time for religion, as he instantly said "oh, not a believer?" Well, no i am not, but my face pulling was at the presumtion that because he is a church goer, he is automatically trustworthy. I know it's an unrelated subject, but i think it fits this issue well. macca is not just going to take someones word as a creditable source. I didn't with the aerial guy. He's also not just going to trust the opinion of the guy standing to make money from selling them, even if he is an expert EE....makes sense. I wouldn't/don't either. What can't happen is that you become ignorant/intolerant of the possibility that you could be wrong. Whilst it's ok for anyone to think "this lot are mad" It's not ok to tell people they aren't hearing what they describe. That is actually in the rules here. It's about respecting the opinions of others. I don't think Macca has said we are imagining it. I think he said that he doesnt buy the explaination of what the Mutec is doing and you have to be aware of the power of the mind. He also said that blind testing would remove the so called improvement. However as i stated previously, blind testing is not as good at showing differences in hifi performance as it is at preventing people from being able to make decisions or comitting to answers with confidence. Look at blind test food tasting for an example of this. In theory the loss of one sense should improve the others, yes? They give them Cola, cheese and all sorts of everyday food stuff, yet they become unable to make decisions or even find the hole in the front of their face. There is a reason blindfolding people is the first step in torture too. It disorients people and they lose the ability to think properly due to the deprivision of senses. Also, turns out that losing one sense in the short term can be incredibly effective at disrupting all the others. these people have been putting food in their mouths since they were born. Put a blind fold on them and they are sticking forks in their eyes . The principle is the same. People, when faced with uncertainty and then JUDGEMENT on their performance, lose the ability to think and the ability to be brave. Blind testing fails for this reason IMO. Thats scientific fact btw...not my opinion. As for the device, i believe that there is more to what is going on than just a reduction in distortion. Possibly an improving of timing that is reaping rewards. I have been reading a lot and the timing is the issue most talk about, but normally introducing another variable makes it worse. Could just be that the Mutech is making a better fist of the timing than the streamer and thats the benefit. I don't mind that macca thinks this is all bullshit. I don't mind because it doesnt matter. I have a Mutec, I like the Mutec and the influence it has had on my system. I like the sound my system makes with it in place and for me it is increasing the level of enjoyment i get from the music i love. As i stated earlier on, i only ever report what i hear. Thats all you can do, and i think over the last 6-7 years that i have been very honest, and generally any advice i have offered to people has increased their enjoyment of their own system. Some items in hifi cause pushback. Obviously this is one of them! Oli
You are wasted in your current occupation consider politics or conflit resolution your talents lie elsewhere mate
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2021 11:17:37 GMT
firebottle - A little tale: After the neighbour had contracted a man of vintage years to fit an aerial to his chimney, i asked for his number as my mother needs her aerials replacing. He then proceeded to tell me "I got his number from a guy at the church, so he is trustworthy" I must have pulled my face in a way that indicated i have no time for religion, as he instantly said "oh, not a believer?" Well, no i am not, but my face pulling was at the presumtion that because he is a church goer, he is automatically trustworthy. I know it's an unrelated subject, but i think it fits this issue well. macca is not just going to take someones word as a creditable source. I didn't with the aerial guy. He's also not just going to trust the opinion of the guy standing to make money from selling them, even if he is an expert EE....makes sense. I wouldn't/don't either. What can't happen is that you become ignorant/intolerant of the possibility that you could be wrong. Whilst it's ok for anyone to think "this lot are mad" It's not ok to tell people they aren't hearing what they describe. That is actually in the rules here. It's about respecting the opinions of others. I don't think Macca has said we are imagining it. I think he said that he doesnt buy the explaination of what the Mutec is doing and you have to be aware of the power of the mind. He also said that blind testing would remove the so called improvement. However as i stated previously, blind testing is not as good at showing differences in hifi performance as it is at preventing people from being able to make decisions or comitting to answers with confidence. Look at blind test food tasting for an example of this. In theory the loss of one sense should improve the others, yes? They give them Cola, cheese and all sorts of everyday food stuff, yet they become unable to make decisions or even find the hole in the front of their face. There is a reason blindfolding people is the first step in torture too. It disorients people and they lose the ability to think properly due to the deprivision of senses. Also, turns out that losing one sense in the short term can be incredibly effective at disrupting all the others. these people have been putting food in their mouths since they were born. Put a blind fold on them and they are sticking forks in their eyes . The principle is the same. People, when faced with uncertainty and then JUDGEMENT on their performance, lose the ability to think and the ability to be brave. Blind testing fails for this reason IMO. Thats scientific fact btw...not my opinion. As for the device, i believe that there is more to what is going on than just a reduction in distortion. Possibly an improving of timing that is reaping rewards. I have been reading a lot and the timing is the issue most talk about, but normally introducing another variable makes it worse. Could just be that the Mutech is making a better fist of the timing than the streamer and thats the benefit. I don't mind that macca thinks this is all bullshit. I don't mind because it doesnt matter. I have a Mutec, I like the Mutec and the influence it has had on my system. I like the sound my system makes with it in place and for me it is increasing the level of enjoyment i get from the music i love. As i stated earlier on, i only ever report what i hear. Thats all you can do, and i think over the last 6-7 years that i have been very honest, and generally any advice i have offered to people has increased their enjoyment of their own system. Some items in hifi cause pushback. Obviously this is one of them! Oli
You are wasted in your current occupation consider politics or conflit resolution your talents lie elsewhere mate
Haha, politician? are you saying I'm full of Sh#t? Lol Thing is, I've met most of the regulars here and you're all good eggs that usually make very valid points and provide great content on the forum. We rarely have a disagreement on here, which is because there's a lot of respect for each other. Sometimes the job of the forum admin/owner is to remind folks that it's ok to not agree, it doesn't mean its personal against an individual. |
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Post by macca on Sept 28, 2021 12:11:07 GMT
FFS Martin. This sounds very close to you calling Oli and myself liars. I personally am getting pissed off with your reluctance to accept that people can differentiate when a change occurs, sighted or not. The improvement (or change in the case of the 1312) was easily heard when the Mutec was in circuit compared to when it wasn't, that's 3 different Dacs.. I have never disputed what you or anyone perceived so that is out of order. Sometimes we perceive things that are not real. It happened to me just the other day. It has happened to me many times when I thought I had improved my system and then come back to it the next day and realised I hadn't. The whole high-end of hi-fi and all the silly tweaks you can buy (that many people swear by) are based on exploiting the flaws in our perception. If people are happy that the Mutec improvement is real (and I accept that it may be) and want to buy one and use it I am fine with that. What I'm not fine with is then going on to claim that the improvement is due to reduced jitter. Stating that that is the technical reason for the perceived improvement is misleading people. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2021 12:30:04 GMT
FFS Martin. This sounds very close to you calling Oli and myself liars. I personally am getting pissed off with your reluctance to accept that people can differentiate when a change occurs, sighted or not. The improvement (or change in the case of the 1312) was easily heard when the Mutec was in circuit compared to when it wasn't, that's 3 different Dacs.. I have never disputed what you or anyone perceived so that is out of order. Sometimes we perceive things that are not real. It happened to me just the other day. It has happened to me many times when I thought I had improved my system and then come back to it the next day and realised I hadn't. The whole high-end of hi-fi and all the silly tweaks you can buy (that many people swear by) are based on exploiting the flaws in our perception. If people are happy that the Mutec improvement is real (and I accept that it may be) and want to buy one and use it I am fine with that. What I'm not fine with is then going on to claim that the improvement is due to reduced jitter. Stating that that is the technical reason for the perceived improvement is misleading people. Please note macca that I did state in my post that you hadn't suggest we were lying. Anyway....... We all know what each other thinks. Let's move on. |
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Post by optical on Sept 28, 2021 12:38:02 GMT
FFS Martin. This sounds very close to you calling Oli and myself liars. I personally am getting pissed off with your reluctance to accept that people can differentiate when a change occurs, sighted or not. The improvement (or change in the case of the 1312) was easily heard when the Mutec was in circuit compared to when it wasn't, that's 3 different Dacs.. I have never disputed what you or anyone perceived so that is out of order. Sometimes we perceive things that are not real. It happened to me just the other day. It has happened to me many times when I thought I had improved my system and then come back to it the next day and realised I hadn't. The whole high-end of hi-fi and all the silly tweaks you can buy (that many people swear by) are based on exploiting the flaws in our perception. If people are happy that the Mutec improvement is real (and I accept that it may be) and want to buy one and use it I am fine with that. What I'm not fine with is then going on to claim that the improvement is due to reduced jitter. Stating that that is the technical reason for the perceived improvement is misleading people. Martin, please correct me if I'm wrong but I think the statement is: JITTER IS REDUCED Then a few people (myself included) have theorised that this is a possible reason for a sonic improvement (among other things). I can't find anything that categorically states "the reduction in jitter is solely responsible for any sonic improvement". Like I say I could be wrong. |
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Post by optical on Sept 28, 2021 12:45:52 GMT
I have never disputed what you or anyone perceived so that is out of order. Sometimes we perceive things that are not real. It happened to me just the other day. It has happened to me many times when I thought I had improved my system and then come back to it the next day and realised I hadn't. The whole high-end of hi-fi and all the silly tweaks you can buy (that many people swear by) are based on exploiting the flaws in our perception. If people are happy that the Mutec improvement is real (and I accept that it may be) and want to buy one and use it I am fine with that. What I'm not fine with is then going on to claim that the improvement is due to reduced jitter. Stating that that is the technical reason for the perceived improvement is misleading people. Please note macca that I did state in my post that you hadn't suggest we were lying. Anyway....... We all know what each other thinks. Let's move on. Yup, I'm cool to move on but I understand that I think Macca is trying to stop anyone assuming a potentially incorrect explanation. However i think it's pretty clear that the theorising is just that. Not wanting to mis-lead anyone but I think if you read through the posts properly it doesn't come across that anyone has stated what Macca is inferring. Granted no 100% correct (or stated) explanation has been offered but neither has one been stated to be correct. The only 'statements' are a reduction in jitter, this has been proven beyond doubt. |
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Post by misterc on Sept 28, 2021 13:13:59 GMT
Just to say Steve now has his Mutec, since 13.37 so................ Steve?
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2021 14:10:40 GMT
Just to say Steve now has his Mutec, since 13.37 so................ Steve? He's had it all this time and not updated us!!! He's probably on the phone to Macca telling him we're all mad 🤣 |
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Post by stevew on Sept 28, 2021 14:13:22 GMT
Just to say Steve now has his Mutec, since 13.37 so................ Steve? I’m still in shock. F#ck me. I don’t know how this thing works. I really don’t care. All I will say for now that this is the best £1000 I’ve spent on hifi. Just been leaping about going through tracks that I know so so well. I didn’t as it turns out. Richard Hawley - as the Dawn Breaks on True Loves gutter. The resonance in his voice and the production of the track I didn’t know it was there… and I’ve got this on vinyl One of the deciding factors on getting the Mutec (aside from reading just about every review on line) was hearing Oliver’s recording of A Day in the Life. I could hear John Lennons vocal much more to the fore, and the quality and emotion in his voice. I wasn’t getting that in my system. Well I am now. |
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Post by misterc on Sept 28, 2021 14:20:14 GMT
Thats good night from me and good night from him...................
I take it Steve its a thumbs up then?
burn in time around 40-50 hours, just leave it on and switch the rest of the system if thats how you roll, couple of days and you will be up to speed so to speak.
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Post by optical on Sept 28, 2021 14:21:24 GMT
Just to say Steve now has his Mutec, since 13.37 so................ Steve? I’m still in shock. F#ck me. I don’t know how this thing works. I really don’t care. All I will say for now that this is the best £1000 I’ve spent on hifi. Just been leaping about going through tracks that I know so so well. I didn’t as it turns out. Richard Hawley - as the Dawn Breaks on True Loves gutter. The resonance in his voice and the production of the track I didn’t know it was there… and I’ve got this on vinyl One of the deciding factors on getting the Mutec (aside from reading just about every review on line) was hearing Oliver’s recording of A Day in the Life. I could hear John Lennons vocal much more to the fore, and the quality and emotion in his voice. I wasn’t getting that in my system. Well I am now. Kidney's for sale . . . two for one special. Awesome news Steve. Enjoy. |
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Post by misterc on Sept 28, 2021 14:23:53 GMT
Just been leaping about going through tracks that I know so so well. I didn’t as it turns out. This is biggest single factor I would suggest comes from this device, there is a sense of correctness to music now, everything becomes more intelligable or coherent  |
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Post by stevew on Sept 28, 2021 14:28:47 GMT
Just been leaping about going through tracks that I know so so well. I didn’t as it turns out. This is biggest single factor I would suggest comes from this device, there is a sense of correctness to music now, everything becomes more intelligable or coherent Yep. That puts it extremely well |
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Post by stevew on Sept 28, 2021 14:34:45 GMT
And to put it into context, I was very happy with the Ares ii and SOTM sms200 streamer..
I had added a SOtM isolation transformer which really did work in cleaning up the Ethernet signal into the streamer. However nothing compared to what the Mutec does.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2021 14:46:44 GMT
Just to say Steve now has his Mutec, since 13.37 so................ Steve? I’m still in shock. F#ck me. I don’t know how this thing works. I really don’t care. All I will say for now that this is the best £1000 I’ve spent on hifi. Just been leaping about going through tracks that I know so so well. I didn’t as it turns out. Richard Hawley - as the Dawn Breaks on True Loves gutter. The resonance in his voice and the production of the track I didn’t know it was there… and I’ve got this on vinyl One of the deciding factors on getting the Mutec (aside from reading just about every review on line) was hearing Oliver’s recording of A Day in the Life. I could hear John Lennons vocal much more to the fore, and the quality and emotion in his voice. I wasn’t getting that in my system. Well I am now. Ha! I KNEW IT The dark art of the Mutec strikes again! Seriously Steve, did it take you more than say..... 30 seconds to think "oh? What the hell is going on here?" I didnt know if it would really come across on the video. Obviously I can tell here and from the videos I do, bit it's great to know it did for you. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2021 14:47:33 GMT
I’m still in shock. F#ck me. I don’t know how this thing works. I really don’t care. All I will say for now that this is the best £1000 I’ve spent on hifi. Just been leaping about going through tracks that I know so so well. I didn’t as it turns out. Richard Hawley - as the Dawn Breaks on True Loves gutter. The resonance in his voice and the production of the track I didn’t know it was there… and I’ve got this on vinyl One of the deciding factors on getting the Mutec (aside from reading just about every review on line) was hearing Oliver’s recording of A Day in the Life. I could hear John Lennons vocal much more to the fore, and the quality and emotion in his voice. I wasn’t getting that in my system. Well I am now. Kidney's for sale . . . two for one special. Awesome news Steve. Enjoy. I'd suggest keeping one or you'll not hear the benefit over you NHS dialysis machine 😉 |
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optical
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Post by optical on Sept 28, 2021 14:49:11 GMT
Kidney's for sale . . . two for one special. Awesome news Steve. Enjoy. I'd suggest keeping one or you'll not hear the benefit over you NHS dialysis machine 😉 It's okay Oli, they're not mine . . . Kid's don't need both, right? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2021 14:49:58 GMT
I'd suggest keeping one or you'll not hear the benefit over you NHS dialysis machine 😉 It's okay Oli, they're not mine . . . Kid's don't need both, right? Hahahaha....not only will you get a Mutec, you'll save on food bills too! Genius! |
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Post by firebottle on Sept 28, 2021 14:58:59 GMT
Great to hear Steve, mine is on order.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2021 15:29:13 GMT
Great to hear Steve, mine is on order. Well done Al! This is all very positive. |
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Post by electronumpty on Sept 28, 2021 16:12:49 GMT
Oli's latest goldrush creation, tele ecc83 valves, pcc88s, Neurochrome 686s and now Mutec 3s!!
🤣
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2021 17:45:59 GMT
Oli's latest goldrush creation, tele ecc83 valves, pcc88s, Neurochrome 686s and now Mutec 3s!! 🤣 It's testament to the quality of the items mate. 👍 |
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Post by stevew on Sept 28, 2021 18:21:29 GMT
I’m still in shock. F#ck me. I don’t know how this thing works. I really don’t care. All I will say for now that this is the best £1000 I’ve spent on hifi. Just been leaping about going through tracks that I know so so well. I didn’t as it turns out. Richard Hawley - as the Dawn Breaks on True Loves gutter. The resonance in his voice and the production of the track I didn’t know it was there… and I’ve got this on vinyl One of the deciding factors on getting the Mutec (aside from reading just about every review on line) was hearing Oliver’s recording of A Day in the Life. I could hear John Lennons vocal much more to the fore, and the quality and emotion in his voice. I wasn’t getting that in my system. Well I am now. Ha! I KNEW IT The dark art of the Mutec strikes again! Seriously Steve, did it take you more than say..... 30 seconds to think "oh? What the hell is going on here?" I didnt know if it would really come across on the video. Obviously I can tell here and from the videos I do, bit it's great to know it did for you. I guess I chose a track to play first that I would detect any changes. So there was support for Macca’s expectation bias I guess. So I bunged on Laura Marling ‘Goodbye England’. The wind instrument that starts off the track was just so dominant..and ‘there’, the rest of the track becomes quite complex with cellos and male vocals behind Laura’s. Never ever heard this amount of detail but with it all just sounding much more cohesive and ‘right’ Alabama 3 ‘Ain’t going to Goa’ is my ice cube track. At 33 seconds in comes a very low frequency bass drum. Usually I struggle to hear it in the mix. Now I can hear it so clearly and almost grasp the pressure the drummer is using to hit it. Not really.. but you know what I mean. Dire Straits, ‘Why worry’… that wooden percussion thing goes on throughout the track from time to time. Who knew! In the Gallery by them has so much propulsion I thought I needed new speakers. I don’t. The improved bass is amazing Well.. I might get something different down the line, but these Technics have surprisingly delivered what is now being fed into them. Bonus |
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