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Post by bencat on Sept 22, 2022 9:33:50 GMT
Going to differ here chaps boards are different, power routing is different, cap layout, type and number. Plus the dil sockets for the mutec designed Xmas usb board and 150ma of current. I have pimped both equally and there us small noticeable difference, how much will will depend systems ability to resolve the finial signal If you are not using a USB input and have zero audiophile tenancies then don't worry Thank you for that input it is useful to know . Another question if you had a standard USB unit and you had worked on to improve the non USB unit would that upgraded one sound better than the standard ? I already know that an upgraded USB unit would sound better again but sadly things like cost then come in to the equation . I am retired now and on a fixed income which means every penny has to count and if i could find a used non USB 3 and get it worked on for less than a USB unit then that might be a consideration . I have never considered myself an Audiophile I just like music and want it to sound as good as I can make it . If things are tight , like they are now would rather buy more music than equipment unles the equipment is an essential . |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 22, 2022 9:49:29 GMT
Going to differ here chaps boards are different, power routing is different, cap layout, type and number. Plus the dil sockets for the mutec designed Xmas usb board and 150ma of current. I have pimped both equally and there us small noticeable difference, how much will will depend systems ability to resolve the finial signal If you are not using a USB input and have zero audiophile tenancies then don't worry Thank you for that input it is useful to know . Another question if you had a standard USB unit and you had worked on to improve the non USB unit would that upgraded one sound better than the standard ? I already know that an upgraded USB unit would sound better again but sadly things like cost then come in to the equation . I am retired now and on a fixed income which means every penny has to count and if i could find a used non USB 3 and get it worked on for less than a USB unit then that might be a consideration . I have never considered myself an Audiophile I just like music and want it to sound as good as I can make it . If things are tight , like they are now would rather buy more music than equipment unles the equipment is an essential . Used ones do become available, just stay patient. I picked mine up for less than half the new price. It's a killer device and I wouldn't be without it |
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Post by misterc on Sept 22, 2022 9:57:36 GMT
Going to differ here chaps boards are different, power routing is different, cap layout, type and number. Plus the dil sockets for the mutec designed Xmas usb board and 150ma of current. I have pimped both equally and there us small noticeable difference, how much will will depend systems ability to resolve the finial signal If you are not using a USB input and have zero audiophile tenancies then don't worry Thank you for that input it is useful to know . Another question if you had a standard USB unit and you had worked on to improve the non USB unit would that upgraded one sound better than the standard ? I already know that an upgraded USB unit would sound better again but sadly things like cost then come in to the equation . I am retired now and on a fixed income which means every penny has to count and if i could find a used non USB 3 and get it worked on for less than a USB unit then that might be a consideration . I have never considered myself an Audiophile I just like music and want it to sound as good as I can make it . If things are tight , like they are now would rather buy more music than equipment unles the equipment is an essential . I have upgraded around 130 of these units now, bear in mind I sell them and I do have a bias so being up front, I personally use USB versions myself (I do not use an USB input at all) I firmly believe they deliver a small but noticebale improvment over the non usb version. In open and transparent systems it is repeatable and obvious that is my experiance.
That is using just the baisc DC input upgrade or the full internal reworking with or wirhout the DC upgrade.
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Post by lurch on Sept 22, 2022 10:00:25 GMT
Okay Mutec Gurus' I've tried reading the manual, but to me it's written in Swahili.
Looking at the USB port the manual says its configured as i/o, I'm assuming this means input or output?? If so how do I configure the front panel to achieve 24/192 out via the USB (or Optical/Coax) to my Black Ice DSD DAC?
As far as cables go I've been unable to find a USB B to USB B LEAD for sale online so have added a female USB A to usb B adapter to the end of the Mutec supplied lead, but couldn't get any output (4 lights all on x1). Want to try and get 24/192 as a few HiRes tracks on my NAS + a few, on Qobuz see the lights change to 24/192 in, but all I get is a fast (no lock?) clicking.
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Post by bencat on Sept 22, 2022 11:07:47 GMT
John I have one of these that I am not able to use at all as I really do not have a USB DAC . It also has an SMPS 12V PSU with it . Currently it is on loan with a friend Graham but I will be bringing it the Wam Show to sell on for charity . The reason I mention it is that it has a USB B input on one side and then a USB A output on the other . So you plug an A to B cable from the Mutec in to the Oehlbach and then take a A to B cable from the Oehlbach to your DAC . Not sure if it will work but welcome to give it a try at the show and see . www.amazon.co.uk/Oehlbach-MasterClock-High-End-Interference-free-Jitter-free-Metallic-Brown/dp/B073S5M2XW |
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Post by lurch on Sept 22, 2022 14:30:16 GMT
Cheers mate, but don't think it will work as only 1 USB B on Mutec which I tink is either in or out so no way to daisy chain via USB.
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Post by bencat on Sept 22, 2022 14:48:03 GMT
John
It should work as this is just being inserted in the same path and will connect to the Mutec as either an input or an output as it just changes with how you wire it up . It is coming to the show anyway to get sold so pop in and borrow it if want to give it a try . I have some basic USB leads if you want me to bring them but nothing special .
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Post by lurch on Sept 22, 2022 14:57:35 GMT
Having just chatted with Tony (MrC) it appears my DAC will only accept 24/96 on Coax or Optical. The 24/192 and above is only available via USB, currently neither of us know how to get USB out on the Mutec but T is investigating if is possible, if so will buy a USB B to B lead. As this 24/192 only affects a couple of Albums on my NAS + a few extraneous tracks on Qobuz I'm not gonna throw money at it as 44.1 & 24/96 are more than good enough, it's just for occasional, problem tracks I'd like the convenience of a simple switch over.
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Post by bencat on Oct 26, 2022 11:33:07 GMT
Right not sure if this is the right thing to do but will ask for some advice and help here . I bought the Audio GD reclocker from John and liked what it has done on my every day three way active system . I know that John only sold it because he had picked up a Mutec USB and heard that as an improvement on the Audio GD. I have heard a Mutec in a DAC off and sort of know what it does but it has become quite expensive and more even used than I was prepared to pay .
Well having set a search on ebay for one a black unit came up today with a £475 buy it now price . Have decided at that price it is worth a punt as long as it is fully working and good condition if it is not everything I am looking for I can always move it on at the same price or even for a profit .
Now here is the question I can insert the Mutec after my player using either BNC SPDIF or USB direct or it can be inserted after the MiniDSP DDRC 22D using AES/EBU and then feed an AES/EBU treated signal to my dCS Purcell and Delius pair . I can not feed the dCS pair as it needs two clock outputs and I think that my models are earlier ones and do not have a clock in . Only other option would be then the two AES/EBU outputs and inputs to the DAC which I am currently using but suspect that will not be something I can do with the Mutec . So really asking is were in the chain is the best place for the Mutec before the DSP treatment or after ?
Also what are the best upgrades for the money you can do to the Mutec ? Change the power supply input to allow a decent LPSU ? Or are there other internal upgrades that make more difference . Any input and help would be appreciated .
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Post by firebottle on Oct 26, 2022 12:03:49 GMT
I'm too lazy to look up the details of your kit so here are the questions:
Why are there 2 AES inputs to the Dac? I don't know the dCS hence the question.
Is the mini DSP digital in, digital out? If so I would put the Mutec directly before the Dac.
An LPSU is a worthwhile upgrade to the Mutec.
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optical
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Post by optical on Oct 26, 2022 12:08:13 GMT
I'm too lazy to look up the details of your kit so here are the questions: Why are there 2 AES inputs to the Dac? I don't know the dCS hence the question. Is the mini DSP digital in, digital out? If so I would put the Mutec directly before the Dac. An LPSU is a worthwhile upgrade to the Mutec. I was literally typing: "I would imagine Mutec works best as close to the DAC as possible (hence it does the most accurate clocking right before source)" and "LPSU upgrade took my Mutec up a level" Once again Alan has covered it! |
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Post by bencat on Oct 26, 2022 12:10:59 GMT
Hi Alan
In order to get 24 bit 96 rate you use a left and right AES output from the Delius to the Purcell . The DSP is fully Digital only so you have the same inputs and out puts I currently use AES input from my player and then AES output to the Delius . Thanks for the suggestion that on between the DSP and DAC will try that first and see how it sounds .
What would need to be done on the Mutec to enable it to accept an LPSU input ? What sort of costs would I be looking at ? I presume that within the Mutec it is an SMPS power supply built in .
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Post by bencat on Oct 27, 2022 11:17:53 GMT
Okay Mutec arrived today and looks in tip top condition . Plugged in and lights come on . Connected the AES output from my DSP to the Mutec AES in and then Connected the AES output from the Mutec to my Digital Crossover . Lights on on the left hand side but nothing lights up on the right and no sound coming out . No manual with the unit so will have to go on line and download one . Could anyone give me some basic settings to find out if this is working ?
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Post by bencat on Oct 27, 2022 11:48:17 GMT
Okay have got things so that they should be working but they are not . Have set the clock for Internal so the far green light is on , no lights on reference column , top light for 32/96 on the clock out column , the lock column shows a blue light for lock main ref the the top light on the last column is red for again 32/96 . So it appears to have lights on were appropriate but no sound coming out ? What am I doing wrong.
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Post by firebottle on Oct 27, 2022 12:09:46 GMT
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Post by bencat on Oct 27, 2022 13:11:44 GMT
Starting to think there is some thing wrong with this unit . I have managed to get things working but no sound and certain actions are resulting in issues . Firstly if I only use Internal then I can get a lock to show on the main but there is no option to choose the input . If I switch over to Internal and Rclk then I can choose the input but there is no locking light . Will have one more try in a my other system and if that fails then I will have to contact the seller . Can anyone make it clear what the basic settings for an input AES and and Output AES should be ? Should I be abke to choose reclock and Internal option from the far left line and get a both a main lock and reclock blue light from the status column ? If so this is not happening . I have put the audio GD back in place and that works perfectly . So I just used the SPDIF connections in and out that I used for that and again I could only get the main Lock blue light on if I only chose Internal on the mode column . So all lit up but still no sound coming out . Again using RCA SPDIF in and BNC Spdif out if I used Internal and Reclock in mode no locking lights .
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Post by misterc on Oct 27, 2022 13:20:30 GMT
Starting to think there is some thing wrong with this unit . I have managed to get things working but no sound and certain actions are resulting in issues . Firstly if I only use Internal then I can get a lock to show on the main but there is no option to choose the input . If I switch over to Internal and Rclk then I can choose the input but there is no locking light . Will have one more try in a my other system and if that fails then I will have to contact the seller . Can anyone make it clear what the basic settings for an input AES and and Output AES should be ? Should I be abke to choose reclock and Internal option from the far left line and get a both a main lock and reclock blue light from the status column ? If so this is not happening . I have put the audio GD back in place and that works perfectly . So I just used the SPDIF connections in and out that I used for that and again I could only get the main Lock blue light on if I only chose Internal on the mode column . So all lit up but still no sound coming out . Again using RCA SPDIF in and BNC Spdif out if I used Internal and Reclock in mode no locking lights . Take some images for us and I can help you here |
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Post by stevew on Oct 27, 2022 13:28:36 GMT
Huzzah.. the cavalry!!
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Post by bencat on Oct 27, 2022 13:43:11 GMT
Thanks Alan and Misterc I am just going to insert it in to my other system and see if that makes any difference . Will let you know and take some pictures of the various conditions .
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Post by bencat on Oct 27, 2022 14:47:32 GMT
Okay I have made progress but I do not seem to be able to find how to post pictures to this forum . I have put the Mutec in to my passive system where it was going anyway and I have audio now so that is progress at least .
Currently as you look from the left I have the mode column with Internal and RE-CLK lights lit up in green . Next in the reference column I have the two bottom lights marked SPDIF op AES and SPDIF op BNC lit . Nothing is lit in the Clock out column and if I use the menu button it skips that offering no control . On the Clock Multipliers it is just the top line of all channels 1-4 lit up at the top of the column . Status shows the main lock button in Blue but not the Reclock Lock light . final colum has the two top buttons lit up in red .
So the unit can get a signal through it but I think there is some better settings I should be able to use so that I increase the quality of the output .
If someone can explain how I attach a photo will do that to show the above .
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Post by misterc on Oct 27, 2022 14:53:18 GMT
Send me a phone image by text Clock multiples are not required uf you are using the reclock as the word clock output is extracted at the same sample rate as the incoming serial data rate. Word clock multiples are only used for internally generated world clocks and the older dcs will require a matching WCO output to the sample rate being played. Look at Oli's below it should look like this. Then just use the WCO from A1 & A2 to feed the CD transport and Elgar  |
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Post by misterc on Oct 27, 2022 15:08:29 GMT
If you are using USB then it will look like this. The older DCS is 96Khz maz so bear that in mind 
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Post by bencat on Oct 27, 2022 15:25:09 GMT
Well mine looks exactly like Oli's except in the last column the top two redlights are on so 32 and 44.1 . My dCS pair is a Delius and Purcell and they are using the 2 x AES connections to give 192 kHz 24 bit between the two . The Mutec is the digital input by normal AES/EBU XLR input to the Purcell . It would seem that it works fine in this system so will leave well alone and have the set up exactly as you show in Oli's picture but with the two lights on I have no control of turning off the 32.0 light off so not sure why mine is lit while Oli's is off but as things are all working will try and get myself to calm down and so then give a real listen . Takes too long to switch things over for any comparison so will just relax and live with for a few days . Thanks for all your help .
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Post by lurch on Oct 27, 2022 16:07:11 GMT
Well mine looks exactly like Oli's except in the last column the top two redlights are on so 32 and 44.1 . My dCS pair is a Delius and Purcell and they are using the 2 x AES connections to give 192 kHz 24 bit between the two . The Mutec is the digital input by normal AES/EBU XLR input to the Purcell . It would seem that it works fine in this system so will leave well alone and have the set up exactly as you show in Oli's picture but with the two lights on I have no control of turning off the 32.0 light off so not sure why mine is lit while Oli's is off but as things are all working will try and get myself to calm down and so then give a real listen . Takes too long to switch things over for any comparison so will just relax and live with for a few days . Thanks for all your help . Andrew if you look between the 32.0 & 44.1 lights you will notice the number 96. The two lights on together indicate the incoming signal quality, so in this instance 24/96. If only the 44.1 is lite then its receiving 16/44.1 so std Redbook. |
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Post by bencat on Oct 27, 2022 16:16:41 GMT
Cheers Lurch that is how it should be as the DSP unit sends all digital out at 24/96 after it has done its thing . So in that case things are working exactly as they should and I can clam down and put the engineers hammer (the big one) away . Will not listen to too much today as things not working has been a constant theme of the day and not in the right mood will try again tomorrow and see how things stack up . The Audio GD unit is doing wonderful things in my active system so I am hopeful that the Mutec will do the same for my passive system .
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Post by bencat on Oct 28, 2022 12:17:57 GMT
Well this really difficult and in no way definitive so please just accept it as my own view and how I feel and hear the music . Much better mood today and so have had the Mutec in my passive system for about two hours
System - Logitech Media Server - Raspberry Pi 4 4GB USB put to Musical Fidelity V192 AES / EBU out to MiniDSP DDRC 22D DIRAC Live DSP unit AES/EBU out to Mutec 3+ AES/EBU out to dCS Purcell Sampler 2 x AES/EBU out to dCS Delius DAC RCA out to NVA P60 Power Amplifier to Pair of AQuadthing Audio fettled Quad ESL 57 .
Sound is excellent and you can hear the Mutec making a difference with better start and stops to notes and more realistic feel to the music . All things considered happy with the sound uplift and decided the Mutec stays .
Now here is the rub , as per earlier in this thread I had tried to put the Mutec in my three way active system and could not get it to work . However I get the feeling that the Audio GD which works in this system without any issue lifted the sound quality more that the Mutec improved the passive system . Very difficult to be clear on this as there are long delays between setting things up then changing them . But I like what the Audio GD is doing better than the Mutec . Wish I could get a real comparison between the two but frankly just not that bothered about doing all the faff trying to get the Mutec working in the active system again .
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Post by misterc on Oct 28, 2022 12:58:36 GMT
Bencat I have a mc3+'s running with two active systems a Kii with grim plus and Focal & DCS. Give me a call so I can help you work out what the issue is with it, easier to explain over the phone rather than typing tombes lol
Contact Information
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Post by bencat on Oct 28, 2022 22:30:04 GMT
misterc a real big thank you for your offer which is very kind . Thing is using the Mutec with my active system was only ever a what if ? thing as it was bought and intended to be used were it is working now . I am just not that inclined to dig it out of its current set up and start all over again when the active system is working really well as it is now .
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