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Post by electronumpty on Sept 25, 2021 20:07:53 GMT
Sorry think I misunderstood, was this new purchase or secondhand? If new then no you should send back etc.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 25, 2021 20:46:15 GMT
Sorry think I misunderstood, was this new purchase or secondhand? If new then no you should send back etc. Sorry, yes, it was used. |
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Post by gninnam on Sept 26, 2021 10:39:59 GMT
Just to reiterate.....i think this device is the dogs bollocks. I have no idea how it works, why it works or even IF it should work. I am facing having to return it as it's not playing ball with USB, and I can tell you this: I am abso-F@cking-lutely livid. Not the guys fault as we think it's happened in transit, but they don't come up cheap and guaranteed the money will end up elsewhere in our house. Livid. Ouch  We are not having much luck on this forum at the mo! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 26, 2021 10:40:45 GMT
Just to reiterate.....i think this device is the dogs bollocks. I have no idea how it works, why it works or even IF it should work. I am facing having to return it as it's not playing ball with USB, and I can tell you this: I am abso-F@cking-lutely livid. Not the guys fault as we think it's happened in transit, but they don't come up cheap and guaranteed the money will end up elsewhere in our house. Livid. Ouch We are not having much luck on this forum at the mo! Yup....it's spreading around the forum. I'm gonna isolate for 10 days 🤣 |
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Post by misterc on Sept 26, 2021 12:15:19 GMT
This is how the usb set up should look when hooked up.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 26, 2021 12:56:55 GMT
This is how the usb set up should look when hooked up.
Yup, that's how it looks using the laptop 👍 |
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 26, 2021 13:49:21 GMT
There's a number of things at play in why one thinks this sounds better.
1. Subconsciously the listener wants that result.
2. It's reducing jitter audibly.
3. It's reducing noise through some other methodology.
Without measurements to show it reducing jitter my money is on 3, and then 1. If it's galvanically isolated and the dac isnt, then option 3 would be even more likely.
If its not galvanically isolated and measurements show it unable to reduce jitter audibly in a known bad setup then its 1.
Moral of the story, buy a decent dac with good jitter rejection and an isolated input. They cost less than this box.
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Post by stevew on Sept 26, 2021 14:44:52 GMT
There's a number of things at play in why one thinks this sounds better. 1. Subconsciously the listener wants that result. 2. It's reducing jitter audibly. 3. It's reducing noise through some other methodology. Without measurements to show it reducing jitter my money is on 3, and then 1. If it's galvanically isolated and the dac isnt, then option 3 would be even more likely. If its not galvanically isolated and measurements show it unable to reduce jitter audibly in a known bad setup then its 1. Moral of the story, buy a decent dac with good jitter rejection and an isolated input. They cost less than this box. You may well be right. For me it’s less subconscious and more absolutely conscious. |
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optical
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Post by optical on Sept 27, 2021 8:57:55 GMT
Fair play for those taking the leap, this shows the weight behind and authenticity placed in Oli's (and others) findings and opinions.
Also encouraging are the likes of the technically informed on this forum recommending a product and standing behind that recommendation. It gives those of us still wondering the realms of low-mid fi the confidence to step things up a bit.
I myself am almost sure I will be trying one as I have a couple of rather different sounding DAC's of which I'm curious to try and squeeze even more out of (even though I am genuinely happy with their current performance.)
This may have jumped ahead of my turntable upgrade on the list of "stuff to buy". . . .
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2021 9:17:17 GMT
Fair play for those taking the leap, this shows the weight behind and authenticity placed in Oli's (and others) findings and opinions. Also encouraging are the likes of the technically informed on this forum recommending a product and standing behind that recommendation. It gives those of us still wondering the realms of low-mid fi the confidence to step things up a bit. I myself am almost sure I will be trying one as I have a couple of rather different sounding DAC's of which I'm curious to try and squeeze even more out of (even though I am genuinely happy with their current performance.) This may have jumped ahead of my turntable upgrade on the list of "stuff to buy". . . . Well thats an almighty compliment  |
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optical
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Post by optical on Sept 27, 2021 9:36:08 GMT
Fair play for those taking the leap, this shows the weight behind and authenticity placed in Oli's (and others) findings and opinions. Also encouraging are the likes of the technically informed on this forum recommending a product and standing behind that recommendation. It gives those of us still wondering the realms of low-mid fi the confidence to step things up a bit. I myself am almost sure I will be trying one as I have a couple of rather different sounding DAC's of which I'm curious to try and squeeze even more out of (even though I am genuinely happy with their current performance.) This may have jumped ahead of my turntable upgrade on the list of "stuff to buy". . . . Well thats an almighty compliment Well . . . maybe you deserve a bit of a pat on the back as your research (although obviously I realise it is ultimately to your benefit initially!) is 'real world' and authentic, plus the way you summerise your findings and thoughts is always an entertaining read. I guess I'm also implying, keep it up mate. Quite a while ago now I first read your experience with the 686 and as you know, I bought the only 'other' one, handbuilt by Tom at the time, off the back of your review. Never really looked back. Tried to carve out my own system direction and taste since then really as like you I do like to try something different, but I feel this is almost an absolute necessity in terms of requiring it in your system to hear things at their best. I certainly have no qualms acknowledging I've taken inspiration regarding my system from loads of guys here but also a large satisfaction from getting excellent results from going my own path. Ultimately its bags of fun. |
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Post by macca on Sept 27, 2021 11:13:28 GMT
Also encouraging are the likes of the technically informed on this forum recommending a product and standing behind that recommendation. Really? when did that happen? I must have missed it. |
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Post by optical on Sept 27, 2021 11:32:36 GMT
Also encouraging are the likes of the technically informed on this forum recommending a product and standing behind that recommendation. Really? when did that happen? I must have missed it. Well reading between the lines I assume some people have been in Oli's ear about trying one of these devices (or that's how the beginning of the thread reads anyway). Seems like Oli took a punt, reported back with positive results which have been backed up by technical explanations (from various knowledgeable users) which seem to have resulted in sales (although I'm not implying that was the intention, just the nature of a discussion where people report positive results). I assume you're referring to the phrase 'standing behind' as citing scientific proof (of whatever)? Well, that's not really the context I wrote it in, not dismissing the scientific approach, but I put more importance on a majority of reports of listeners making their evaluations using their ears. IE - people who claim it does improve things, maintain that it does in the face of (justifiable for an expensive 'add-on product), skepticism. - In fact I welcome the skepticism as well as the optimism towards such products as it encourages a balanced view and argument from all sides. Even if they are indeed factors I don't really care about 'unconscious bias' etc because I've learned to trust the opinion of a majority when it becomes (to me) obvious that something positive is happening, I also don't really care 'what' is happening, as Steve eluded to earlier. misterc (among others) said it would improve replay on a lot of DAC's, and it seems to have done just that. Still early days I concede but I would not expect frivolous claims from these guys. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2021 12:05:05 GMT
It started to enter my awareness a few months back, maybe 10 moths ago actually, when i took a trip down to see Tony. His system had a modified Mutech in it and to be blunt, he was very enthusiastic about it. At the time i was very sceptical about the supposed need for such a device and dismissed its part in the system chain pretty swiftly.
Accrediting the various sonic aspects of Tony's system to the rather more "eye catching" devices on show. TAD DAC, Liquid Music Amplifier etc...a dazzling array of HiFi opulence.
I also have a little read of Martin T's blog on The Audio Standard. Once again, here was a fellow who was waxing lyrical about these Mutech Devices. I did a little digging but still, i had more important areas of improvement that i personally needed to address before i'd even consider a device like this, and lets face it, who drops £900 on a device that shouldn't be necessary!
Recently, i have been conversing with a few folk who all unanimously tell me that the Mutech does indeed make a difference and if i can, i should try one. Now that my system only requires a bit of fine-tuning, my eye turned to the possibility of now just enjoying it.
As you guys have seen, i bought a streamer, made it work, made a LPSU for my DAC and was generally thinking i'd cracked it.
Then, without any reason at all, i looked at the classified over on the WAM. The Mutech was advertised and i thought "if it's Sh#t, i won't lose my money so lets have a gamble"
So here it is and here it's staying.
As always, i am aware that forums can have a telling influence on the people that read it, and i am acutely aware of how sometimes things written on forums can come back to bite you on the arse. With that in mind, i only ever write what i personally experience.
With devices like this, there is absolutely going to be scepticism, and personally i think it's only right for there to be so.
This hobby is unique. It's got huge common subject matter, but almost all posts and experiences are uniquely personal.
Dont believe the Mutech works? Come down, bring your DAC. Lets find out. That offer is open to anyone. My email address is in my signature. Get in touch!
I have no issue with anyone disagreeing about the technical possibility of anything. After all, if the law of physics says it ain't so, then i am not going to argue, but i also think there are times when the introduction of something can have an effect or influence that we are not able to explain. Science doesn't have all the answers yet, and if it does.....if something you buy makes your experience better....who cares.
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Post by macca on Sept 27, 2021 16:34:12 GMT
Just to be clear all I was querying was the statement 'reported back with positive results which have been backed up by technical explanations (from various knowledgeable users)'
That has not happened. There has not to date been any credible technical explanation offered here or anywhere - and I have searched. Which is not to say that there isn't one, although I remain open to the idea that in reality there is no benefit.
However and whoever and how many have tried it and heard something I don't care about. I'm happy that they're happy.
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Post by stevew on Sept 27, 2021 16:58:33 GMT
If yer happy and you know it clap your hands
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2021 17:09:59 GMT
If yer happy and you know it clap your hands Has it arrived Steve? |
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Post by stevew on Sept 27, 2021 17:24:13 GMT
No!! Tomorrow
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Post by misterc on Sept 27, 2021 17:27:29 GMT
It's left jitter busting HQ and is winging its way to you
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2021 17:30:48 GMT
It's left jitter busting HQ and is winging its way to you Jitter Busting HQ 🤣🤣 |
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Post by misterc on Sept 27, 2021 17:37:38 GMT
It's left jitter busting HQ and is winging its way to you Jitter Busting HQ 🤣🤣 Remember tax dodgers timing is the key, not mistroking a pussy  |
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Post by misterc on Sept 27, 2021 18:26:12 GMT
This is an example of a Mutec MC3+ ouputing a 4 integer red book sample rate with full jitter spectrum analysis all genuine jitter formats, with a genuine certified standard of 60ps (without extrenal reference) Note how clean and open the eye pattern is, also the jitter trends are so fluidic. We can also accurately extrapolate BER (Bit error rate) with a side order of bath tubs (yes really )
Starting with the basic waveform displaying Frequency/period/overshoot/undershoot (painfull?  )/ rise and fall times as well as peak / RMS voltage and standard deviation, all genuine Lecroy 75 ohm <> 50 ohm impedance adapters, T-Flex 405 lab cabling scope up to correct temprature, Mutec running for 30 mins all running off the same mains supply.
Just to give another example this is from a DCS sacrlatti clock @ 44.1Khz with NO dither applied using the same test set up
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optical
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Post by optical on Sept 27, 2021 18:37:10 GMT
Just to be clear all I was querying was the statement ' reported back with positive results which have been backed up by technical explanations (from various knowledgeable users)' That has not happened. There has not to date been any credible technical explanation offered here or anywhere - and I have searched. Which is not to say that there isn't one, although I remain open to the idea that in reality there is no benefit. However and whoever and how many have tried it and heard something I don't care about. I'm happy that they're happy. Okay, how about I rephrase that then? 'Private (home) users have reported very positive results with this device. A credible explanation (to my satisfaction) of reduced jitter (improved signal), has been offered by those far more knowledgeable than myself, which I am happy to accept.' More happier?? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2021 18:43:20 GMT
Just to be clear all I was querying was the statement ' reported back with positive results which have been backed up by technical explanations (from various knowledgeable users)' That has not happened. There has not to date been any credible technical explanation offered here or anywhere - and I have searched. Which is not to say that there isn't one, although I remain open to the idea that in reality there is no benefit. However and whoever and how many have tried it and heard something I don't care about. I'm happy that they're happy. Okay, how about I rephrase that then? 'Private (home) users have reported very positive results with this device. A credible explanation (to my satisfaction) of reduced jitter (improved signal), has been offered by those far more knowledgeable than myself, which I am happy to accept.' More happier?? I know I am 🤣🤣 |
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Post by electronumpty on Sept 27, 2021 18:46:57 GMT
I just want to know where mrc gets his funky screen savers from.. 😋
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Post by brucew268 on Sept 27, 2021 19:00:36 GMT
Fair play for those taking the leap, this shows the weight behind and authenticity placed in Oli's (and others) findings and opinions. Also encouraging are the likes of the technically informed on this forum recommending a product and standing behind that recommendation. It gives those of us still wondering the realms of low-mid fi the confidence to step things up a bit. I myself am almost sure I will be trying one as I have a couple of rather different sounding DAC's of which I'm curious to try and squeeze even more out of (even though I am genuinely happy with their current performance.) This may have jumped ahead of my turntable upgrade on the list of "stuff to buy". . . . Maybe I'm misreading, but the first statement said nothing about technical explanations. It said "recommended" by "technically informed" people on the forum, which I took to refer to Tony (MrC). |
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Post by stevew on Sept 27, 2021 19:11:14 GMT
As sir Michael of George sang
Jitterbug into my brain (Yeah, yeah)
Goes a bang-bang-bang 'til my feet do the same
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optical
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Post by optical on Sept 27, 2021 19:22:01 GMT
As sir Michael of George sang Jitterbug into my brain (Yeah, yeah) Goes a bang-bang-bang 'til my feet do the same Ya play the guitar on the MC-3.... That ain't working... |
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Post by macca on Sept 28, 2021 6:45:30 GMT
Just to be clear all I was querying was the statement ' reported back with positive results which have been backed up by technical explanations (from various knowledgeable users)' That has not happened. There has not to date been any credible technical explanation offered here or anywhere - and I have searched. Which is not to say that there isn't one, although I remain open to the idea that in reality there is no benefit. However and whoever and how many have tried it and heard something I don't care about. I'm happy that they're happy. Okay, how about I rephrase that then? 'Private (home) users have reported very positive results with this device. A credible explanation (to my satisfaction) of reduced jitter (improved signal), has been offered by those far more knowledgeable than myself, which I am happy to accept.' More happier?? No. As I keep pointing out, reduced jitter is not an acceptable explanation. Without the Mutec these DACS have jitter distortion at around -120dB. To say that is audible is like saying you can hear someone shouting to you from 2000 kilometres away. That's how absurd a claim that is. If it's not audible before the Mutec goes in then how much the Mutec reduces jitter (either by none or a couple of dB depending on the DAC) is irrelevant. It's either doing some thing else -which no-one has offered an explanation for - or it's doing nothing. In that situation the best place to start is a blind test. Find out if it really is making a change first, then look for explanation. My suspicion is that the elusive soundstage improvements would vanish like the morning dew once the listener does not know if the Mutec is in the chain or not. Don't underestimate the power of the mind to play tricks. It's well proven. |
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Post by macca on Sept 28, 2021 6:53:04 GMT
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)/ rise and fall times as well as peak / RMS voltage and standard deviation, all genuine Lecroy 75 ohm <> 50 ohm impedance adapters, T-Flex 405 lab cabling scope up to correct temprature, Mutec running for 30 mins all running off the same mains supply. 
