JimBlog

RUN.......RUN A MILE!!!!!!

orchardaudio is making a super high powered Starkrimson. I was gonna build one......you should have a look. One of those with a proper Toroidal based PSU would take some beating.

Leo wont agree about the need to deviate from a SMPS.....but i'm right lol

orchardaudio.com/shop/ols/products/strk-ltr-mdl

Populated PCBs are about $849. Decent case and power supply wouldnt be all that much more and you'd have a very good amp, if the BOSC monos i tried were anything to judge them with. These are supposed to be better!

Understand what you are saying - I tried the BOSC amps and liked what they did and thought they were good value for money but a bit to 'dry' when used with the kit I had but a few minor tweaks have bee made so what I hear now may be different?.
Send me your address and I will pop the Burson amp in the post to you.

Thanks Jim for you assessment.
As the saying goes, 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating' (or something like that) so will need to try one in my system to see if it gels with my other components and my ears - if it does then my look to build one this year.

Thanks Antonio and hope you enjoyed the read.

well done jimbo,go with your heart and ears mate,its all about enjoyment,ive yet to jump on the 686 band wagon but it will have to blow my mind to better my kt88 set up.

To be honest Mikey it was not the conclusion I was expecting. I had my BOM lined up ready to start ordering the parts.

I think that soundstage is something you can become accustomed to. 
To have sounds that come from outside the bounds of the speaker boundaries is truly beguiling.
If the tone does not change, I find it an easier change to accept, and enjoy.

I now have a reason as to why this has happened, Jim.

I have to check it with Angus first, but this bakeoff of yours may have highlighted an anomaly with the BT2 and Valve Phonostages.

This is the benefit of having two specialists as technical support.

I'll post more when I know more.

I think to an extent the 'valve' thing is a red-herring. Firstly the Croft Series 7 are Mosfet amps, solid state. Okay they use valves on the input but that's not a 'valve amp' in my book

Second there are all-valve amps that are very transparent, like Radford and Tube Distinctions. You would not know they were valve amps from listening to them. They don't have that 'sound' we tend to associate with valves (warm, soft, euphonic, coloured etc).

Plus it has been demonstrated that you can design a solid state amp to sound exactly like a valve amp - search for the 'Carver Challenge'

I feel the need to interject a little here.

There seems to have been a bit of a slant taken from what Jim said in regard to Valves Vs Solid State and the suitability of the 686 to vinyl replay.

I said to Jim WAAAAY before he undertook this experiment that the Phonostage inside the Croft Preamp may not play nicely with the BT2 as he had to use the "Line Out" into the BT2. This has proved to be correct.

I also felt that the match between croft 25R and 686 would not provide the full ability or experience of what a 686 can do.

This was based on trying numerous bits of Croft gear and discovering that like a lot of HiFi brands, Croft appears to achieve a certain synergistic match with more Cfroft gear or "like minded" items. I have put a Croft preamp on my 686 in the past and even though it was ok....it did not perform anywhere like it does with the Neurochrome 8x2, DCB1 or the BT2.

Similarly, i have put Croft amps on those preamps and the Croft amps NEVER delivered compared to when you put a Croft preamp on them.

Now, i am not saying that a SS pre and a Valve hybrid amp cannot work together, or vice versa, but Croft seems to be pretty much happier with either more croft gear or as i stated earlier, Like minded items.

The purpose of Jims experiment was to see if he could just Bolt a 686 onto the end of his system and achieve what he wanted to by adding more power into his system. The answer was - NO. As expected.

I know Jim suggested that a BT2 and a 686 would be the ideal environment for those who were digitally minded, and i totally agree, but any suggestion that the "686 and BT2 combo aren't for vinyl" is just absolutely incorrect. The 686 (and BT2) are as capable with Digital as they are with vinyl. The combination here has provided an equal improvement in performance to both my vinyl and Digital, which is not insignificant.

The issue was the mismatch between components that Jim tried. As predicted.

SO going from Valves to a 686....is it possible?

I am a valve guy. I love the little glass bastards and i love what they do with music BUT the 686 is a different beast. It is a transportation device into the inner sanctum of the recording. It removes the obstacles between you and what was pressed into the grooves and it gives you a front row seat into the recording session, or as close as the engineer wants to let you get. The level of authenticity you get from a 686 is absolute. It recreates vocals and instruments in a totally convincing way but it does not lie to you. It does not embellish, exaggerate or try to trick you. What goes in is what comes out.

Valves do not do this to the same degree, if at all. Valves are adept at creating a fantasy land. Playing tricks with the recording and making the recording venue develop into a concert hall when in reality it was a living room size space. Valves deliver euphoric glory and a sense of almost holy divinity. They really are wonderous things....but they are full of Sh#t. The things you are hearing are not a product of the recording, they are a product of the Valve and the amplification. I couldn't live with that.

Yes, there are Valve amplifiers that do perform at a much higher level of transparency and clarity. The Radford and Tube Distinctions are a good example of "best in class" but they are not immune from it, as its a valve characteristic. They just do it to a far lesser degree. I don't know where the Croft 7 sits in the grand scheme of Valve amplification, but i know when i hear Croft setups that the "valve magic" is quite obvious....regardless of it having mosfets for the power duties.

It totally depends on what YOU want from your system as to what you decide to stick with. I have had all sorts of amps here and the 686 touches my soul AND gives me the kind of listening experience that captures my attention. Jim has amps that do exactly the same for him, and thats what it's all about.....you just can't mix the two types into one melting pot.

Oh, yes I know what you and Jim were saying but it was a call that made me think a bit of Clarity over comments may help.

I was also thinking along the lines of Mikeyb, in my experience no amplifier can be the best at everything. My brother's Audionet is simply the best intergrated we have ever heard, and only beaten by it's stable mates, Stern/Heisenberg pre/power, and a couple of others we have heard. I will say a Zanden 300B may well give a more emotional rendition of Mary Black, but would never portray the dynamics and scale of say Yes.  You have to decide were the strengths lie and the music which you listen to most.  Good luck with that Jimbo, this battle between Croft and Neurochrome has been facinating.

Cheers Kevin I will take a look.,