Just a little reminder that the 686 absolutely works wonders with the 25R (line stage only) BB3 on phono duties . In fact the 25R is actually holding it back somewhat .
It still sounds like the Croft house sound with extra clarity and transparency
Just a little reminder that the 686 absolutely works wonders with the 25R (line stage only) BB3 on phono duties . In fact the 25R is actually holding it back somewhat .
It still sounds like the Croft house sound with extra clarity and transparency
Just a little reminder that the 686 absolutely works wonders with the 25R (line stage only) BB3 on phono duties . In fact the 25R is actually holding it back somewhat .
It still sounds like the Croft house sound with extra clarity and transparency
Karl, did you invert phase when you connected up the Croft preamp to the Neurochrome. If not this maybe why you are getting different size soundstage compared to 7Rs?
If you are not sure how to do that just swap the speaker cables round on the speaker terminals ie red to black and black to red.
I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts when you take the 25R out of the system and replace it with somethin else and what effect that has on the sound from the Neurochrome?
Karl, did you invert phase when you connected up the Croft preamp to the Neurochrome. If not this maybe why you are getting different size soundstage compared to 7Rs?
If you are not sure how to do that just swap the speaker cables round on the speaker terminals ie red to black and black to red.
I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts when you take the 25R out of the system and replace it with somethin else and what effect that has on the sound from the Neurochrome?
Yeah I’ve tried that Jim and couldn’t tell the slightest bit of difference . I’ve asked a couple of people who said it doesn’t matter too.
Soundstage exactly the same . Just outside of the speakers .
I’ve just plugged the monos back in to warm up now now I’m accustomed to the neuro to see what can be heard .
Ok so first of all I had the BB3, neuro and 25r warmed up for half an hour then slapped on one of my fave test records . SRV ‘couldn’t stand the weather’ Analogue productions 45rpm. This is a reference record in terms of sound quality and content so it makes it easy for me to pick up differences as I’m so accustomed to it and the mastering is mindblowing .
I turned the volume half way to 6oclock on the 25R dials and dropped the needle and everything I have come to know these last few weeks was there, clarity , depth, fine details, snappiness, resolution , transparency, you name it. It really is a fantastic combination . A slight bit of warmth and character from the 25R really does strike a good balance with the neutrality of the neuro .
Next up I plugged the 7R monos in then rang the old dear for 45 minutes before heading back for a listen so they were nicely warmed up by this point.
I didn’t touch the preamp so it was same volume setting,6 o’clock . I dropped the needle then sat back down.
For the first few seconds in the songs build up the difference wasnt all that noticeable apart from the Croft’s sounded quieter ,but as soon as the guitars kicked in it was quite obvious that I had taken a step backwards . The guitar wasn’t as vivid and snarling and in your face realistic. This became even more on noticable when vocals kicked in ,they sound a more recessed and constrained . Like they were there but couldn’t get out from behind the door .
One thing is for sure. The neuro has improved a fair bit since my initial impressions. A lot actually . I remember it being much closer in my initials listening sessions. likely as it has some 50 hours plus on it now so things are bedding in nicely . Also surprisingly there’s not much in it at all now with the soundstage size . Something I really noticed at first . I’m hoping there is a little more to squeeze from the neuro too when I put my pure copper Viborg RCA and spotfire cables on the inputs . I’m using $3 RCA posts and cable at the minute so probably not ideal but it’s got me up and running for the time being
With the monos back in It now sounds like I’ve put a sheet over my speakers . It just sounds a bit veiled and not as snappy as and crisp and clear as the neuro.
I think it might time to retire the brilliant monos into the classifieds as there is a new sheriff in town.... no contest according to these big ears
Good stuff Karl thats what I wanted too hear. The Neurochrome sounds more vivid and like you are a step closer to the recording action, a seat further close to the performance as it were. Everything becomes more clear cut with the 686 no doubt because a layer of distortion has been been removed.
Have you found the 686 to be more neutral, less coloured?
Bigman80
Grandmaster The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Ok so first of all I had the BB3, neuro and 25r warmed up for half an hour then slapped on one of my fave test records . SRV ‘couldn’t stand the weather’ Analogue productions 45rpm. This is a reference record in terms of sound quality and content so it makes it easy for me to pick up differences as I’m so accustomed to it and the mastering is mindblowing .
I turned the volume half way to 6oclock on the 25R dials and dropped the needle and everything I have come to know these last few weeks was there, clarity , depth, fine details, snappiness, resolution , transparency, you name it. It really is a fantastic combination . A slight bit of warmth and character from the 25R really does strike a good balance with the neutrality of the neuro .
Next up I plugged the 7R monos in then rang the old dear for 45 minutes before heading back for a listen so they were nicely warmed up by this point.
I didn’t touch the preamp so it was same volume setting,6 o’clock . I dropped the needle then sat back down.
For the first few seconds in the songs build up the difference wasnt all that noticeable apart from the Croft’s sounded quieter ,but as soon as the guitars kicked in it was quite obvious that I had taken a step backwards . The guitar wasn’t as vivid and snarling and in your face realistic. This became even more on noticable when vocals kicked in ,they sound a more recessed and constrained . Like they were there but couldn’t get out from behind the door .
One thing is for sure. The neuro has improved a fair bit since my initial impressions. A lot actually . I remember it being much closer in my initials listening sessions. likely as it has some 50 hours plus on it now so things are bedding in nicely . Also surprisingly there’s not much in it at all now with the soundstage size . Something I really noticed at first . I’m hoping there is a little more to squeeze from the neuro too when I put my pure copper Viborg RCA and spotfire cables on the inputs . I’m using $3 RCA posts and cable at the minute so probably not ideal but it’s got me up and running for the time being
With the monos back in It now sounds like I’ve put a sheet over my speakers . It just sounds a bit veiled and not as snappy as and crisp and clear as the neuro.
I think it might time to retire the brilliant monos into the classifieds as there is a new sheriff in town.... no contest according to these big ears
Thanks for doing that Karl.
Far more In line with what I suspected would be the case.
It has left me wondering exactly how much of an influence having a BB3 had on you being able to hear a difference between amplifiers.
Would the Crofts internal Phonostage highlight the same performance difference as clearly?
I suspect you can't try that as the Croft is MM only and then that's an entirely different variable.
We'll have to wait till I can revisit this with Jim and stick a BB3 in his system
Good stuff Karl thats what I wanted too hear. The Neurochrome sounds more vivid and like you are a step closer to the recording action, a seat further close to the performance as it were. Everything becomes more clear cut with the 686 no doubt because a layer of distortion has been been removed.
Have you found the 686 to be more neutral, less coloured?
Yeah it’s definitely more neutral , virtually no colour at all. It’s invisible in fact and I think that’s why it works well paired with the Croft pre because it’s not completely neutral. There is a hint of Croft character there which gives it some extra soul . It will definitely be interesting to hear how the BT2 sounds that’s for sure . Could I be saying goodbye to the 25 or could I be hounding Mr Firebotlle or Glenn to give my pre the full Monty treatment ? Only time will tell
Ok so first of all I had the BB3, neuro and 25r warmed up for half an hour then slapped on one of my fave test records . SRV ‘couldn’t stand the weather’ Analogue productions 45rpm. This is a reference record in terms of sound quality and content so it makes it easy for me to pick up differences as I’m so accustomed to it and the mastering is mindblowing .
I turned the volume half way to 6oclock on the 25R dials and dropped the needle and everything I have come to know these last few weeks was there, clarity , depth, fine details, snappiness, resolution , transparency, you name it. It really is a fantastic combination . A slight bit of warmth and character from the 25R really does strike a good balance with the neutrality of the neuro .
Next up I plugged the 7R monos in then rang the old dear for 45 minutes before heading back for a listen so they were nicely warmed up by this point.
I didn’t touch the preamp so it was same volume setting,6 o’clock . I dropped the needle then sat back down.
For the first few seconds in the songs build up the difference wasnt all that noticeable apart from the Croft’s sounded quieter ,but as soon as the guitars kicked in it was quite obvious that I had taken a step backwards . The guitar wasn’t as vivid and snarling and in your face realistic. This became even more on noticable when vocals kicked in ,they sound a more recessed and constrained . Like they were there but couldn’t get out from behind the door .
One thing is for sure. The neuro has improved a fair bit since my initial impressions. A lot actually . I remember it being much closer in my initials listening sessions. likely as it has some 50 hours plus on it now so things are bedding in nicely . Also surprisingly there’s not much in it at all now with the soundstage size . Something I really noticed at first . I’m hoping there is a little more to squeeze from the neuro too when I put my pure copper Viborg RCA and spotfire cables on the inputs . I’m using $3 RCA posts and cable at the minute so probably not ideal but it’s got me up and running for the time being
With the monos back in It now sounds like I’ve put a sheet over my speakers . It just sounds a bit veiled and not as snappy as and crisp and clear as the neuro.
I think it might time to retire the brilliant monos into the classifieds as there is a new sheriff in town.... no contest according to these big ears
Thanks for doing that Karl.
Far more In line with what I suspected would be the case.
It has left me wondering exactly how much of an influence having a BB3 had on you being able to hear a difference between amplifiers.
Would the Crofts internal Phonostage highlight the same performance difference as clearly?
I suspect you can't try that as the Croft is MM only and then that's an entirely different variable.
We'll have to wait till I can revisit this with Jim and stick a BB3 in his system
Yeah I think you could be right. The Croft Phonos are nice but at the time I listened to one I remembered them being about on the same level as the graham slee phono and Psu I used to have which would have been a sideways move for me which is why I didn’t get one .
I then moved onto the Whest 2.2 which was a nice step up from that and then onto the BB3 which was a step up again so we have to remember it’s a different beast In a different league really so the resolution I have here from my phono will allow me to hear those differences far more easily .
Not forgetting the Art 9 aswell which for me is possibly the best sub 1500 cart out there that I’ve heard . It just extracts so much and is superior to the rondo bronze I had before that, the Soundsmith , 2m’s , regas etc etc . Though I did love the sound of the rondo and would have another one of them any day of the week to see if killian could work some magic on it . They can be picked up cheap now aswell . Less than a 2m bronze I paid for mine . Amazing value for the sound quality
As I’ve mentioned before the neuro and monos really deserves a more revealing preamp than the 25r too to fully hear there potential. I will be experimenting with that myself in the near future
I think you will have to take that new turbo Bigbottle you’re building round to Jim’s with your TT so he can hear the MC going through it and out of the neuro. I know for a fact it will make for an eyebrow raising experience
Bigman80
Grandmaster The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
There's a really useful nugget of information there:
"Also surprisingly there’s not much in it at all now with the soundstage size"
I know when we spoke that the idea of moving to Croft 7R Monoblocks caused a wee bit of concern about their effect on the soundstage and if they "super-sized" it, then you wouldn't be as happy.
This possibly paves the way for you to feel a little more confident in taking the plunge?
Far more In line with what I suspected would be the case.
It has left me wondering exactly how much of an influence having a BB3 had on you being able to hear a difference between amplifiers.
Would the Crofts internal Phonostage highlight the same performance difference as clearly?
I suspect you can't try that as the Croft is MM only and then that's an entirely different variable.
We'll have to wait till I can revisit this with Jim and stick a BB3 in his system
Yeah I think you could be right. The Croft Phonos are nice but at the time I listened to one I remembered them being about on the same level as the graham slee phono and Psu I used to have which would have been a sideways move for me which is why I didn’t get one .
I then moved onto the Whest 2.2 which was a nice step up from that and then onto the BB3 which was a step up again so we have to remember it’s a different beast In a different league really so the resolution I have here from my phono will allow me to hear those differences far more easily .
Not forgetting the Art 9 aswell which for me is possibly the best sub 1500 cart out there that I’ve heard . It just extracts so much and is superior to the rondo bronze I had before that, the Soundsmith , 2m’s , regas etc etc . Though I did love the sound of the rondo and would have another one of them any day of the week to see if killian could work some magic on it . They can be picked up cheap now aswell . Less than a 2m bronze I paid for mine . Amazing value for the sound quality
As I’ve mentioned before the neuro and monos really deserves a more revealing preamp than the 25r too to fully hear there potential. I will be experimenting with that myself in the near future
I think you will have to take that new turbo Bigbottle you’re building round to Jim’s with your TT so he can hear the MC going through it and out of the neuro. I know for a fact it will make for an eyebrow raising experience
Yes, I could do, but in the words of the iron lady "Jim is not for turning" 🤣
Yeah I think you could be right. The Croft Phonos are nice but at the time I listened to one I remembered them being about on the same level as the graham slee phono and Psu I used to have which would have been a sideways move for me which is why I didn’t get one .
I then moved onto the Whest 2.2 which was a nice step up from that and then onto the BB3 which was a step up again so we have to remember it’s a different beast In a different league really so the resolution I have here from my phono will allow me to hear those differences far more easily .
Not forgetting the Art 9 aswell which for me is possibly the best sub 1500 cart out there that I’ve heard . It just extracts so much and is superior to the rondo bronze I had before that, the Soundsmith , 2m’s , regas etc etc . Though I did love the sound of the rondo and would have another one of them any day of the week to see if killian could work some magic on it . They can be picked up cheap now aswell . Less than a 2m bronze I paid for mine . Amazing value for the sound quality
As I’ve mentioned before the neuro and monos really deserves a more revealing preamp than the 25r too to fully hear there potential. I will be experimenting with that myself in the near future
I think you will have to take that new turbo Bigbottle you’re building round to Jim’s with your TT so he can hear the MC going through it and out of the neuro. I know for a fact it will make for an eyebrow raising experience
Yes, I could do, but in the words of the iron lady "Jim is not for turning" 🤣
Haha that’s fair enough. We all have our own flavour dont we. Worth a try though if Jim fancies it one day
Yes it does use a switched mode PS, that's how it can be so small.
RUN.......RUN A MILE!!!!!!
orchardaudio is making a super high powered Starkrimson. I was gonna build one......you should have a look. One of those with a proper Toroidal based PSU would take some beating.
Leo wont agree about the need to deviate from a SMPS.....but i'm right lol
Populated PCBs are about $849. Decent case and power supply wouldnt be all that much more and you'd have a very good amp, if the BOSC monos i tried were anything to judge them with. These are supposed to be better!
Thanks for the mention. I just noticed this. The modules themselves do not have any power supplies (except for very low power analog ones), this is why they are so small. You can add external linear or SMPS supplies to your liking.
Let me know if anybody has questions.
Here is what the finished product looks like BTW (see attachements)
Attachments:
Last Edit: May 12, 2021 17:58:59 GMT by orchardaudio
Hi James, Really good to have you back posting on the forum. Hope you are in a good place now with all the complexities of life, I imagine the house is coming on a treat.
I'm sure we would all be interested to learn of your audio related findings, we are open minded on here as I'm sure you know.
I have noticed it has been exactly one year to the day since I last posted on this blog, time certainly flashes by. I have been extremely busy in the last year and trying to manage life during Covid has been to say the least difficult. I have had plenty of time to reflect on much that has happened and although I have not posted here I have still been engaged in HiFi and tinkered with my own system. I see there has been plenty of tinkering here on AA such is the nature of our hobby.
I hope I can share some of my thoughts, musings and experiences I have had during the past year as I have learnt some interesting and amusing audio related stuff which maybe of interest and hopefully not too controversial. Some stuff has had even myself scratching my head but as we all know HIFI is a strange world where everything we do in our systems produces some sort of a result, intentional or non intentional!
I have tried to get my head round and catch up what has been going on here at AA over the past year but following some posts has had me falling down audio rabbit holes. As Oli mentioned recently there has been some serious upgrading of systems which I can only image has produced some great results, hopefully I can get to hear some in the near future?
It is good to be back on this friendly forum and also see so many new and old faces and hopefully if no other deadly variant of the virus arises between now and May I hope to meet up with whoever makes it to the AA Bakeoff!
James,
It is genuinely good to see you back posting. There had been an outcry for information on where you had disappeared to, and that suggests to me that your contribution to the forum is valued and appreciated.
COVID did seem to intensify the seemingly minor issues people were experiencing and a lot of folks were affected in different ways. Thankfully, there is light at the end of the tunnel (IMO) and a return to normal life is creeping up quickly. Hindsight providing a better perspective going forward.
Obviously, you are more than welcome to drop in anytime and have a listen to the stuff here, and yeah, it will be good to see you at the Bakeoff too.
I have noticed it has been exactly one year to the day since I last posted on this blog, time certainly flashes by. I have been extremely busy in the last year and trying to manage life during Covid has been to say the least difficult. I have had plenty of time to reflect on much that has happened and although I have not posted here I have still been engaged in HiFi and tinkered with my own system. I see there has been plenty of tinkering here on AA such is the nature of our hobby.
I hope I can share some of my thoughts, musings and experiences I have had during the past year as I have learnt some interesting and amusing audio related stuff which maybe of interest and hopefully not too controversial. Some stuff has had even myself scratching my head but as we all know HIFI is a strange world where everything we do in our systems produces some sort of a result, intentional or non intentional!
I have tried to get my head round and catch up what has been going on here at AA over the past year but following some posts has had me falling down audio rabbit holes. As Oli mentioned recently there has been some serious upgrading of systems which I can only image has produced some great results, hopefully I can get to hear some in the near future?
It is good to be back on this friendly forum and also see so many new and old faces and hopefully if no other deadly variant of the virus arises between now and May I hope to meet up with whoever makes it to the AA Bakeoff!
James,
It is genuinely good to see you back posting. There had been an outcry for information on where you had disappeared to, and that suggests to me that your contribution to the forum is valued and appreciated.
COVID did seem to intensify the seemingly minor issues people were experiencing and a lot of folks were affected in different ways. Thankfully, there is light at the end of the tunnel (IMO) and a return to normal life is creeping up quickly. Hindsight providing a better perspective going forward.
Obviously, you are more than welcome to drop in anytime and have a listen to the stuff here, and yeah, it will be good to see you at the Bakeoff too.
Get to work on the next blog entry 😉
Cheers Oli your welcome back is much appreciated.
Things came to a bit of a crunch with so many sad things happening in my personal life and Covid did add that extra layer of stress and anxiety. But as you say normal life appears to be slowly coming back.
Thanks for the offer to drop in, I will certainly arrange this with you sometime in the near future and the Bakeoff is a great opportunity hopefully to meet lots of folk I know but have never met!
There is a backlog of blog material pending so it should not be too long before I post up something.
Bigman80
Grandmaster The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
It is genuinely good to see you back posting. There had been an outcry for information on where you had disappeared to, and that suggests to me that your contribution to the forum is valued and appreciated.
COVID did seem to intensify the seemingly minor issues people were experiencing and a lot of folks were affected in different ways. Thankfully, there is light at the end of the tunnel (IMO) and a return to normal life is creeping up quickly. Hindsight providing a better perspective going forward.
Obviously, you are more than welcome to drop in anytime and have a listen to the stuff here, and yeah, it will be good to see you at the Bakeoff too.
Get to work on the next blog entry 😉
Cheers Oli your welcome back is much appreciated.
Things came to a bit of a crunch with so many sad things happening in my personal life and Covid did add that extra layer of stress and anxiety. But as you say normal life appears to be slowly coming back.
Thanks for the offer to drop in, I will certainly arrange this with you sometime in the near future and the Bakeoff is a great opportunity hopefully to meet lots of folk I know but have never met!
There is a backlog of blog material pending so it should not be too long before I post up something.
No worries at all, just give me a shout.
I am currently using some half decent class D amplification, but i'd hang on till my 686 is built. No issue with the sound at the minute but always best to have your favourite gear in service, lol. Should be some time in March for the rebuild...i hope.
All what he said. Really good to see you back, and very sorry to hear you’ve had a tough time of it. The optimistic outlook of returning to some kind of normality almost seems unreal to us at the moment. However .. baby steps. Planning our first lunch out on Thursday and it’s given my wife a real boost. I shall look forward to meeting up on 10th April.
All what he said. Really good to see you back, and very sorry to hear you’ve had a tough time of it. The optimistic outlook of returning to some kind of normality almost seems unreal to us at the moment. However .. baby steps. Planning our first lunch out on Thursday and it’s given my wife a real boost. I shall look forward to meeting up on 10th April.
Thanks Steve, It does feel more optimistic than it has done for a good while and desperate to get back to a bit of normality. We still have not eaten out yet but may do soon, just thinking of going to the pics. We have some gigs lined up for later in the year too one of which is in September but has been delayed for 3 years! The Bakeoff is 15 minutes from my house so you can be sure I will be there and certainly it would be good to meet up.
I am not a big fan of cable swapping and indeed I usually keep cables in my system for a fair number of years before swapping out and that only happens when something interesting comes along that naturally performs better than the incumbents. However as a disclaimer I must say all cables whether power or interconnects are in my view system dependent so the results you may hear will differ depending on what bits of kit are connected.
I have tried cables from many of the top brands with interesting and sometimes controversial results which have made my head spin. First of all I have learnt don’t assume anything! Price, construction, materials, brand etc often only give you a small indication as to what the cable will achieve in you system as I have learnt to my cost.
If you read all the blurb about cables, i.e. material purity with copper say 7 x 0.38 oxygen free, maybe silver coated with a magical phase stable outer braid which is impervious to all external noise both electrical, nuclear or the next door neighbour drilling through your wall then you think - Ah that must be the cable I am looking for.
So you borrow or buy said cable only to find it either sounds no better than your current cable or it sounds worse than your current cable. Where it gets difficult for us Audiofools is when it sounds better! You then go in a head spin trying to determine what sounds better. Clarity, imaging, detail, soundstage, dynamics, transparency or I can’t hear the next door neighbours drill anymore.
It is sometimes difficult to get a handle on what you are hearing and as we all know pulling cables in and out after turning equipment off can be a pain in the ass especially if they are difficult to get too, you have a bad back, you can’t find your glasses or you have to wait another 10 minutes for your valve amp to warm up. Or you don’t turn your equipment off and you just yank them out hoping for the best and trust the pops and bangs are just noise and not a valve, fuse blowing or something worse!
So your potentially new cable sounds better, well to be truthful it sounds different. Then you get into the Audiofool psychodrama of cable burn in. Some of us hear it happen, some of us doubt it happens, some us would like to believe it happens ( like father christmas), some of us definitely don’t believe it happens and some of us don’t give a F@*$!
You then live with the cable for a while juggling in your head a matrix of thoughts which will determine if this cable is a keeper. Can I really hear a difference and if I do is it really better or just different but most importantly is this cable worth it or even more importantly can I afford it! As we all know being an Audiofool plays funny tricks with our wallets. Money can strangely become elastic when quantifying the cost of a cable or indeed any piece of equipment. The calculations an Audiofools brain makes in order to justify expenditure are very complex and bizarre.
Ultimately the deciding equation is based on can I live without this cable costing £2000 - err yes. Is £200 too much for this cable, maybe but I could stop eating out for a month ? Or at £20 I have sent a Paypal payment without even noticing .
Price is always a consideration and for many of us probably number 1.
Where it gets difficult is the strange no mans land of this cable sounds better or different. Is different better? I have often thought this many times when evaluating pieces of equipment. HIFI equipment is always a compromise and cables are no different.
So you get a cable and plug it in, wait 100 hours and then start to listen. Ahh you think I can suddenly hear aspects of the recording more clearly. Yes there is definitely more detail. Bloody hell I am hearing things I have never heard before!! This is fantastic. The transparency, imaging and micro detail are stunning and my wallet has suddenly become very elastic! We keep listening and run through an Audiofool check list. Timbre, Dynamics, Imaging, transparency, PRAT, soundstage, sibilance, top end detail, midrange….wow and then suddenly we notice theres no Bass. F@*% NO BASS! But everything else is perfection, can I live without the Bass. Of course not!
The dreaded compromise has struck. Quite often though are internal thoughts twist reality and we become flexible in our thought process and what were seen as negatives are ignored and pushed way down our check list and the benefits rise to the top and that startling clarity and new detail we are hearing trump everything. After all if we are hearing things in the recording we have never heard before it must be better! Our hand is on the Credit card and we are ready to pull the trigger.
Evaluating any piece of kit is difficult and for me cables are the hardest to evaluate and often justify expenditure on.
At the beginning of this post I had set out to write a review and recommend a new cable I am listening to but that will have to wait for another day.
One year!!! you're pulling me leg 
Good to have you back and don't worry about being controversial, I like that on here.
One year!!! you're pulling me leg 
Good to have you back and don't worry about being controversial, I like that on here.
