Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 7, 2020 9:54:58 GMT
I thought I would just have a quick listen last night to the Spendor SP2s to refresh my memory how they sounded. They have a great midrange and image superbly. I can see why I have stuck with these speakers for 32 years especially as most of the time they have been used in small rooms. However the move to a larger room was a challenge for them and they could never really deliver the dynamics and scale I was looking for in the new environment. As I had both pairs of speakers sitting in the room I quickly switched back to the HECO Celan Gt 703 and the improvements in many areas were substantial, not perfect but they performed far better in many areas and running through a quick Audiophile selection of material they could deliver a very very impressive performance.
So sadly the SP2 will be retired and will no longer be part of my system although they may become part of a second system in another room for Helen where I will be putting together a retro B system! I feel kinda sad that this will be the end of a very long standing piece of equipment that has been with me for over half of my life and given me much music pleasure and connects me back to the distant past when I first got into HiFi back at the Warstones HiFi shop in the late 70s early 80s. Obviously they were great speakers to have lasted this long and although they were very expensive at the time they have been worth every penny. So many configurations of different systems have been used with them and they always seemed to work well but the Croft combination has been the best.
Moving on in my hif journey, which for nearly all of us never stands still, I still have some issues to resolve namely better control and amplification of the HECOs. They need more power and bass control and I may be open to other options rather than Croft so if anyone can recommend a power amplifier around 100-200 watts that has great control and more importantly sounds good I will be interested to hear. 
I feel I have now moved into a major new era with my system and the speakers are now catching up with the rest of my system. The VPI Scout 1.1 and FGS 2M Black are very current and provide a modern and exemplary analogue front end. The Croft amps are timeless and continue to provide great clarity, transparency and realism. Their ability to extract tonal information is very good indeed and the OTL design of the power amp really gives you a see through ability to the performance however as I have mentioned the Series 7 power amp is not enought to give the HECOs the juice they require so this will need addressing.
Although I am an analogue guy through and through and am still yet to be convinced by digital it is always on my radar and I will look again at options for the future. I have heard a fair few DACs and inded owned a few but they don't last long when I pop on some vinyl and realise their shortcomings but hey ho I may give it another go. I do like listening to FM radio still and would like to buy a great tuner probably from the era when they were in their heyday. Again any suggestions would be appreciated.
So now I will wonder off and ponder power amps and consider my options. If I pursue the Croft route then a 7R would be an option or some second hand mono blocks. We wil see. You could do a lot worse than the 7RS Jim, but for that sort of money, you are in the 686/Benchmark/Starkrimson territory. Thinks take a serious step forward when you start delving into those kind of off the beaten path amplifiers. With the new specs, the new 686 PCBs look a solid choice and there's no way you'd ever need another amp This is going to get interesting for you and I will be following with major interest |
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Post by macca on Nov 7, 2020 10:32:17 GMT
£1400 for the 7R, you could get a s/h Krell KSA 50 or 100 and have money left over. You won't ofc  - but I suspect that would be a good match with the Hecos and would certainly drive them to their maximum potential. Valve pre-amp with a Krell KSA is a generally accepted great pairing. |
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Post by jimbo on Nov 7, 2020 11:12:25 GMT
£1400 for the 7R, you could get a s/h Krell KSA 50 or 100 and have money left over. You won't ofc - but I suspect that would be a good match with the Hecos and would certainly drive them to their maximum potential. Valve pre-amp with a Krell KSA is a generally accepted great pairing. Funny enough Martin I was actually thinking of the Krell KSA 50 or 100. I heard this amp at Olivers and was very impressed. They do get a bit warm but that would not be a particular problem in my house.
Spoke to Alan yesterday and I believe he had yours on the bench? |
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Post by macca on Nov 7, 2020 12:43:00 GMT
£1400 for the 7R, you could get a s/h Krell KSA 50 or 100 and have money left over. You won't ofc - but I suspect that would be a good match with the Hecos and would certainly drive them to their maximum potential. Valve pre-amp with a Krell KSA is a generally accepted great pairing. Funny enough Martin I was actually thinking of the Krell KSA 50 or 100. I heard this amp at Olivers and was very impressed. They do get a bit warm but that would not be a particular problem in my house.
Spoke to Alan yesterday and I believe he had yours on the bench? He messaged me earlier to say he'd fixed it already! That was the KSA50S - you've got bob hope of finding one of those. You heard that at the Penkridge bake-off (with valve pre). The one you heard at Ollie's is the Krell KSA100 Mk2 which I later bought off him. Listening to it right now in fact. Earlier model than the 50S but twice the power - it is also fan cooled so doesn't get silly hot but you might find the fan noise a bit intrusive with the sort of music you favour. But if you didn't at Ollies then in your much larger room it certainly won't matter. The original KSA50 does not have a fan but is half the power. The good thing is that Krell always massively under-rate power output so they can claim the amps 'double down' in power all the way to 1 ohm load. So a '50' is closer to 100 watts per channel and a '100' closer to 200 wpc. You can almost double that power output again into 4 ohm speakers like the Hecos. I have never come close to clipping either the '50s' or the '100' into any speakers I've tried with them. Where the '50s' are very rare especially in Europe you can pick up an original '50' easy enough for a grand or less. Worth considering but of course there are so many alternatives. For me Krells have that sweetness about the harmonics so few amplifiers have at any price, especially solid state. No listening fatigue and just sounds 'right'. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 7, 2020 14:23:17 GMT
Now, this is VERY sensible thinking. Although not the last word in resolution or transparency, the Krell KSA100 MK2 would tick a lot the boxes that are important to you jimbo Also, they sound Soooooooo good. Hard to go wrong IMO. |
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Post by macca on Nov 7, 2020 14:57:14 GMT
Yep it doesn't give that 'studio control room' sound. But if that's not your bag anyway there's no drawback except the 'lecky bill. Also on the hot days in the summer the 100 was just too much extra heat in the room, and I had to swap it out.
Although I think the 100 would be overkill, a 50 would be fine.
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Post by jimbo on Nov 7, 2020 15:21:21 GMT
Not many around at the moment.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 7, 2020 15:44:50 GMT
Yep it doesn't give that 'studio control room' sound. But if that's not your bag anyway there's no drawback except the 'lecky bill. Also on the hot days in the summer the 100 was just too much extra heat in the room, and I had to swap it out. Although I think the 100 would be overkill, a 50 would be fine. Some reckon the 50 was the sweet spot |
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Post by macca on Nov 7, 2020 15:55:03 GMT
Yep it doesn't give that 'studio control room' sound. But if that's not your bag anyway there's no drawback except the 'lecky bill. Also on the hot days in the summer the 100 was just too much extra heat in the room, and I had to swap it out. Although I think the 100 would be overkill, a 50 would be fine. Some reckon the 50 was the sweet spot Yes, they do. The early ones were built on his kitchen table. The story goes that he built the first one as an exercise, found it to be good so took it to a hifi shop to sell it for him. The shop sold it almost immediately and asked for more. He couldn't keep up with demand which tells you something. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 7, 2020 16:10:43 GMT
Some reckon the 50 was the sweet spot Yes, they do. The early ones were built on his kitchen table. The story goes that he built the first one as an exercise, found it to be good so took it to a hifi shop to sell it for him. The shop sold it almost immediately and asked for more. He couldn't keep up with demand which tells you something. Maybe that's the one to look for? Would certainly have the iron first in a velvet glove Jim would be looking for |
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Post by macca on Nov 7, 2020 17:41:33 GMT
Not many around at the moment. Mr C mentioned that he has one. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2020 17:54:52 GMT
There are three Krell KSA 100(s) over here, but as usual, they are expensive. link |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 7, 2020 18:12:24 GMT
Heathcote Audio have a KSA 50 for £1350 Don't hesitate, pick it up. That's pennies for a Krell. Can always do whatever work it may need in future. They are great to work on Or I have a contact with a KSA100...I think that's about £1500...will check of required jimbo |
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Post by macca on Nov 7, 2020 19:39:25 GMT
There are three Krell KSA 100(s) over here, but as usual, they are expensive. linkThat 100S is quite keenly priced. Not the same sound as a 100 or a 50 though. And collection only from SE France, which might as well be on the moon right now. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2020 19:48:23 GMT
I know people who live in the SE of France...
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Post by macca on Nov 7, 2020 19:53:15 GMT
Not heard a 100S, according to Jon Atkinson they are not quite as sweet as the 50S. But you have twice the power ofc.
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Post by jimbo on Nov 8, 2020 6:55:11 GMT
I think before I venture down the mighty Krell route I will have to listen to one in my system, maybe loan one to hear....?
My other option I am looking into is a beefed up Croft Series 7R power amp. I have been told I may be able to get a 90w special build option!  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2020 6:58:28 GMT
Well, you like the Croft sound....
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Post by jimbo on Nov 8, 2020 7:24:49 GMT
Well, you like the Croft sound.... It is really something I dont want to loose so a more powerful amp from Mr Croft maybe the best solution? |
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bigbird
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Post by bigbird on Nov 8, 2020 7:29:39 GMT
Well, you like the Croft sound.... It is really something I dont want to loose so a more powerful amp from Mr Croft maybe the best solution? D’yu not fancy the monos Jim? They’re bloody magical. I think they are 100w of all remember rightly |
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Post by jimbo on Nov 8, 2020 7:49:53 GMT
It is really something I dont want to loose so a more powerful amp from Mr Croft maybe the best solution? D’yu not fancy the monos Jim? They’re bloody magical. I think they are 100w of all remember rightly I do Karl and I will snap a pair up if the come up for sale....what happened to yours?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2020 8:03:35 GMT
Well, you like the Croft sound.... It is really something I dont want to loose so a more powerful amp from Mr Croft maybe the best solution? If you are happy, then it would be foolish to change IMHO. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2020 8:05:02 GMT
Out of interest Jimbo, how would you describe the sound of the Firebottle amps compared to Croft?
Only asking as I have been asked the question by someone interested in my amps.
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bigbird
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Post by bigbird on Nov 8, 2020 8:17:29 GMT
D’yu not fancy the monos Jim? They’re bloody magical. I think they are 100w of all remember rightly I do Karl and I will snap a pair up if the come up for sale....what happened to yours?
I still have mine Jim. I’ve just had a really nice result by adding the genelex gold lion gold pins into the regulation stage . It was quite clear they were better than the JJs . With the 56 RCA in the input stage and gold lions it offers so much detail and focus and holographic imagery. I’ve just sold my spendors which will free up some money to build the dual mono 686. Once this happens then mine might be up for sale. Will likely be a couple of months away yet though. I think that’s the only amp that will make me part ways with them |
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Post by macca on Nov 8, 2020 8:39:43 GMT
I think before I venture down the mighty Krell route I will have to listen to one in my system, maybe loan one to hear....?
You're welcome to have a loan of either of mine. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2020 9:12:59 GMT
Out of interest Jimbo, how would you describe the sound of the Firebottle amps compared to Croft? Only asking as I have been asked the question by someone interested in my amps. Very similar as they are pretty much the same 😂😂 firebottle told me something the other day and I've forgotten. It's why his FB-Monos were "better" fro a technical perspective....can't remember. Maybe he'll let you know |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2020 9:29:20 GMT
I think before I venture down the mighty Krell route I will have to listen to one in my system, maybe loan one to hear....?
My other option I am looking into is a beefed up Croft Series 7R power amp. I have been told I may be able to get a 90w special build option! I think a 90w special built Croft would probably leave you with a permanent smile on your face Jim. I love the Krell 100, but you can hear its signature on everything you play. This came to wear on me and I know it would wear on you too. As good as its signature sounds, and it is mighty fine, a good amp is a transparent amp. You shouldn't hear it. It shouldn't impose itself either. Bags of power, smooth effortless delivery and can dig out remarkable levels of bass. The Croft route is something you are comfortable with, know well and have been down with Glenn for a long time. I see the appeal for you but I'll just say this: For around £2K you can get something from Benchmark, Neurochrome, Starkrimson, Nord, Apollon, Hypex...... ALL off these amplifiers will show any Croft amplifier a clean pair of heels in terms of detail, speed, transients, transparency, macro and micro detail and all of them are chameleon like. You don't know they are there.....maybe you do a little with the Nord, Apollon and Hypex as they all have a little synthetic tinge about them. For me, especially at this point, it wasn't the tonality or the soundstage etc that I instantly missed when the legendary 880 speakers left, it was the transparency. The ability's to hear what is happening without feeling like I am slightly detached or at arms length from the music. The Crofts may give you that one thing, but so will the other but they will give you more too. Loan some amps. Ask orchardaudio for a loan of the Starkrimson as I loaned them and in truth, If i hadn't already committed to the 686, I probably would have bought them. Loan a Krell off Macca, loan my 686. Hear what you can in your system and see what happens before you line Glenn's pocket. Just so you KNOW you made the right choice |
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Post by macca on Nov 8, 2020 10:08:50 GMT
I think before I venture down the mighty Krell route I will have to listen to one in my system, maybe loan one to hear....?
My other option I am looking into is a beefed up Croft Series 7R power amp. I have been told I may be able to get a 90w special build option! I love the Krell 100, but you can hear its signature on everything you play. This came to wear on me and I know it would wear on you too. As good as its signature sounds, and it is mighty fine, a good amp is a transparent amp. This is true of the KSA100 but it is also true of Croft as well. Croft is great value and does a lot right but Krell is in a different league. On the other hand the KSA50S is up there with the most transparent amps I have heard. That's not for everyone though. I never tried that with a Valve pre-amp so uncharted territory. All depends on what you are after. There's no substitute for trying as much as possible before committing, sometimes what you thought you wouldn't like turns out to be the one. A bit like with women. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 8, 2020 10:11:39 GMT
I love the Krell 100, but you can hear its signature on everything you play. This came to wear on me and I know it would wear on you too. As good as its signature sounds, and it is mighty fine, a good amp is a transparent amp. This is true of the KSA100 but it is also true of Croft as well. Croft is great value and does a lot right but Krell is in a different league. On the other hand the KSA50S is up there with the most transparent amps I have heard. That's not for everyone though. I never tried that with a Valve pre-amp so uncharted territory. All depends on what you are after. There's no substitute for trying as much as possible before committing, sometimes what you thought you wouldn't like turns out to be the one. A bit like with women. I don't disagree with any of that statement lol |
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Post by jimbo on Nov 8, 2020 10:23:21 GMT
Out of interest Jimbo, how would you describe the sound of the Firebottle amps compared to Croft? Only asking as I have been asked the question by someone interested in my amps. I have heard the monos a few times when Alan first built them when he copied the Croft design.
The original is always best in my book! |
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- but I suspect that would be a good match with the Hecos and would certainly drive them to their maximum potential. 
