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Post by macca on Sept 25, 2019 16:43:32 GMT
Discs of Silence.....😂😂😂 You'll be wanting cable risers next. Who said I haven't already got em'! lol I did notice in that pic that your speaker cables were off the floor... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 16:44:44 GMT
Who said I haven't already got em'! lol I did notice in that pic that your speaker cables were off the floor...  No, I haven't got cable risers. I am not mental lol....although...... |
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 25, 2019 17:04:25 GMT
The Right note room at the show had 7 cables with boxes on, one separate just into the mains box, 10 cable lifters for speaker wire,2 boxes on the speaker wire, 12 pyramids under kit and four on top of speaker.
You're all missing out on a total spend of about 20k, just think how much more fulfilling your hifi could make that arseholes bank balance?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 17:08:38 GMT
Well said SQ.
Fools and they're money are easily parted.
Buy £20000 worth of Vinyl instead.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 20:24:24 GMT
I don't agree with the idea of isolating speakers. They should be coupled to whatever they are stood on as rigidly as possible. Why Geoff? Had some Townshend platforms here a few weeks ago an felt they were pretty effective . OK, I didn't need much in the way of isolation with the Pioneers on the DIY stands but they would definitely be on my radar with the 880s.seems like the ideal solution, but for the ridiculous cost. Any form of isolation/decoupling encourages the speaker to develop fore and aft movement due to the pistonic action of the driver(s). However minimal this movement is, it will impact upon the speaker's ability to produce accurate notes and will modulate the acoustic signal it is trying to emit, possibly even causing small cancellations across the range. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 20:37:08 GMT
Why Geoff? Had some Townshend platforms here a few weeks ago an felt they were pretty effective . OK, I didn't need much in the way of isolation with the Pioneers on the DIY stands but they would definitely be on my radar with the 880s.seems like the ideal solution, but for the ridiculous cost. Any form of isolation/decoupling encourages the speaker to develop fore and aft movement due to the pistonic action of the driver(s). However minimal this movement is, it will impact upon the speaker's ability to produce accurate notes and will modulate the acoustic signal it is trying to emit, possibly even causing small cancellations across the range. Well that sounds undesirable lol How would you approach my particular dilemma? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 20:53:32 GMT
Any form of isolation/decoupling encourages the speaker to develop fore and aft movement due to the pistonic action of the driver(s). However minimal this movement is, it will impact upon the speaker's ability to produce accurate notes and will modulate the acoustic signal it is trying to emit, possibly even causing small cancellations across the range. Well that sounds undesirable lol How would you approach my particular dilemma? Thought you had the speakers spiked through the carpet into the floor? That should be fine. You could also put something heavy on top of each speaker to add mass and make them even more stable. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 21:33:13 GMT
Well that sounds undesirable lol How would you approach my particular dilemma? Thought you had the speakers spiked through the carpet into the floor? That should be fine. You could also put something heavy on top of each speaker to add mass and make them even more stable. Yep, the speakers are on spikes, which are making contact with the floorboards. The stability isn't the issue, its the bass energy that is being driven into the floorboards that's causing resonance. I can feel the floorboards vibrating. The speakers are really very stable so other than decoupling, how do i remove that issue? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 22:03:20 GMT
Try the speakers maybe six inches off the deck on something rigid.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 22:07:38 GMT
Try the speakers maybe six inches off the deck on something rigid. On a box like structure? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 22:10:59 GMT
You could try bricks perhaps?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 25, 2019 22:28:59 GMT
I could be wrong bit aren’t the Townshend devices rigid in the horizontal plane? I know they are expensive but is there any chance you could try them for free? If they work, maybe you could think about achieving something similar.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 25, 2019 22:31:29 GMT
If anybody wanted to use cable risers they could make them for almost nothing. I can’t therefore understand any anybody would buy them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 22:35:38 GMT
I could be wrong bit aren’t the Townshend devices rigid in the horizontal plane? I know they are expensive but is there any chance you could try them for free? If they work, maybe you could think about achieving something similar. Yes i can try them for free so i can see if it works. I have a 30 year engineer on the case too lol |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 22:46:05 GMT
I could be wrong bit aren’t the Townshend devices rigid in the horizontal plane? I know they are expensive but is there any chance you could try them for free? If they work, maybe you could think about achieving something similar. In my opinion, rigidity in the horizontal plane is probably even more important than vertical stiffness (said the actress to the bishop  ). |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 22:52:05 GMT
I could be wrong bit aren’t the Townshend devices rigid in the horizontal plane? I know they are expensive but is there any chance you could try them for free? If they work, maybe you could think about achieving something similar. Yes i can try them for free so i can see if it works. I have a 30 year engineer on the case too lolWell if he understands the physics of structures and dynamics he may agree with me (yes, I do understand the principles of seismic shock isolation in buildings etc., a related topic, but not really applicable here). |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 22:56:29 GMT
Yes i can try them for free so i can see if it works. I have a 30 year engineer on the case too lolWell if he understands the physics of structures and dynamics he may agree with me (yes, I do understand the principles of seismic shock isolation in buildings etc., a related topic, but not really applicable here). We will see, i'll let you know what he says |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 13:27:00 GMT
Well that's that. The end of an era.
Metlor (Mart) of AoS, has been and collected the Pioneers
Regardless of my new speakers being utterly splendiferous, the Pioneers have held a place in my system for the longest time of any component and that has meaning.
They were the very first speaker to really hit the spot with me. They spoke to me and communicated in ways that were new and exciting. Even the most ardent of Kabuki (Multi drive unit, Japanese Speakers)dissenters couldn't deny their charms and qualities. They've been with me for 90% of my HiFi journey. Evaluations, tests, experiments, developments, Bakeoffs, comparisons, the whole thing.
I will miss them greatly from a sentimental stance.
Were they perfect? No, as no speaker is perfect, but to me they gave more enjoyment than their price tag suggested would ever be the case.
Quite often in this strange little hobby of ours, the masses follow the general order and buy things that are safe, well known and without risk of losing their money. To me, the Pioneers are a perfect example of why, as a budding Audiophile, you should abandon any notion of "following" and begin to carve your own path. Build your own POV and your own opinions on what you like.
I hope that when Mart hooks them up, he feels the same way about them.
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 26, 2019 14:57:32 GMT
Townsend speaker stands move in 3 axis, with different damping in vertical and horizontal planes. Just a Sh#t idea if you value the phase of anything coming out of tweeters.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 15:08:07 GMT
Townsend speaker stands move in 3 axis, with different damping in vertical and horizontal planes. Just a Sh#t idea if you value the phase of anything coming out of tweeters. that's two for the Nays!
lol
In a slightly connected way, the removal of the brass connections on the binding posts has been an excellent step forward. I replaced the brass with a 1mm single core copper wire and it's made a significant difference. Bass is booming far less and it has much more detail. I am presuming the binding posts are brass too, they will have to go eventually. I may not need any isolation if my next plan works out.
Also, I am told outriggers will spread the weight outside of the speakers (marginally) and due to the wider area between contacts, may have a slight effect on the floor interaction.
Any opinions?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 26, 2019 16:17:31 GMT
Townsend speaker stands move in 3 axis, with different damping in vertical and horizontal planes. Just a Sh#t idea if you value the phase of anything coming out of tweeters. that's two for the Nays!
lol
In a slightly connected way, the removal of the brass connections on the binding posts has been an excellent step forward. I replaced the brass with a 1mm single core copper wire and it's made a significant difference. Bass is booming far less and it has much more detail. I am presuming the binding posts are brass too, they will have to go eventually. I may not need any isolation if my next plan works out.
Also, I am told outriggers will spread the weight outside of the speakers (marginally) and due to the wider area between contacts, may have a slight effect on the floor interaction.
Any opinions?
Ther are some 860 crossovers on EBay have a look at them to judge the quality of the components. If you think they can easily be improved, start there. Personally I’d still try the Townshend again. If they make things sound better or they don’t, at least you will have experience of decoupling them. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 16:24:21 GMT
that's two for the Nays!
lol
In a slightly connected way, the removal of the brass connections on the binding posts has been an excellent step forward. I replaced the brass with a 1mm single core copper wire and it's made a significant difference. Bass is booming far less and it has much more detail. I am presuming the binding posts are brass too, they will have to go eventually. I may not need any isolation if my next plan works out.
Also, I am told outriggers will spread the weight outside of the speakers (marginally) and due to the wider area between contacts, may have a slight effect on the floor interaction.
Any opinions?
Ther are some 860 crossovers on EBay have a look at them to judge the quality of the components. If you think they can easily be improved, start there. Personally I’d still try the Townshend again. If they make things sound better or they don’t, at least you will have experience of decoupling them. Ive seen those. Caps look OK quality TBF. I may have a sneaky peak inside mine later lol.
Although, they sound unbelievable as is.
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Post by antonio on Sept 26, 2019 17:20:45 GMT
Selling your Pioneers reminds me when I traded Epos ES14's in to get a pair of Shahinian Obelisks. I think I had used the ES14's for 16 years and they always improved with every upgrade I made.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 19:44:51 GMT
Selling your Pioneers reminds me when I traded Epos ES14's in to get a pair of Shahinian Obelisks. I think I had used the ES14's for 16 years and they always improved with every upgrade I made. That's exactly how it was mate, they never let me down. I am hoping that they are appreciated by the new owner as they are far better than they should be. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 10:22:03 GMT
Managed to find a bit of time to fit the Vishay Capacitors. Back up and running. Sounds better balanced than previously with the 6800uf, but obviously a speaker change Inbetween isn't going to allow an accurate comparison Oddly, I'm kind of missing the Khozmo as a passive device. I'll give this the standard 100hrs to open up and see how I feel but it could be that the 686 is the perfect match for a passive.  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2019 10:45:56 GMT
Managed to find a bit of time to fit the Vishay Capacitors. Back up and running. Sounds better balanced than previously with the 6800uf, but obviously a speaker change Inbetween isn't going to allow an accurate comparison Oddly, I'm kind of missing the Khozmo as a passive device. I'll give this the standard 100hrs to open up and see how I feel but it could be that the 686 is the perfect match for a passive. I hadn’t expected that one. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 10:53:58 GMT
Managed to find a bit of time to fit the Vishay Capacitors. Back up and running. Sounds better balanced than previously with the 6800uf, but obviously a speaker change Inbetween isn't going to allow an accurate comparison Oddly, I'm kind of missing the Khozmo as a passive device. I'll give this the standard 100hrs to open up and see how I feel but it could be that the 686 is the perfect match for a passive. I hadn’t expected that one. Well, it's been on an hour and the mids have filled out a little. Bass is tight and crisp so that boom I'd reported from the speakers is now far reduced. Yes, the floorboards are vibrating still, but it's now sounding much tighter, much cleaner too. Very transparent all of a sudden. I think once it has bedded back in, it'll be normal service resumed. Also heard yesterday that Tom of Neurochrome is developing a universal buffer that will outperform the DCB1 in terms of THD. I am now waiting for that lol |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 27, 2019 14:31:43 GMT
Regarding the floorboards.
I did have this mad and crazy idea that I never followed through on. You might just be the guy to do it. It’s not expensive but it does involve ripping up a few boards.
-Basically my idea was to take up a section of floor where the speakers are.
-Dig down and create two mini raft foundations out of reinforced concrete where the speakers are going to sit.
- Using shuttering you now create two reinforced concrete columns to bring you up to floor level, you’d need a damp proof layer OFC.
- now put some noggins in around the columns to support the floorboards.
- cut the floorboards to got around the concrete columns.
- relay your underlay and carpet leaving a seamless floor effect, but leaving you with rock solid plinths to put your speakers without ever worrying about the floorboards.
You could do it with brieze blocks, but why not go a all the way lol.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 14:59:28 GMT
Regarding the floorboards. I did have this mad and crazy idea that I never followed through on. You might just be the guy to do it. It’s not expensive but it does involve ripping up a few boards. -Basically my idea was to take up a section of floor where the speakers are. -Dig down and create two mini raft foundations out of reinforced concrete where the speakers are going to sit. - Using shuttering you now create two reinforced concrete columns to bring you up to floor level, you’d need a damp proof layer OFC. - now put some noggins in around the columns to support the floorboards. - cut the floorboards to got around the concrete columns. - relay your underlay and carpet leaving a seamless floor effect, but leaving you with rock solid plinths to put your speakers without ever worrying about the floorboards. You could do it with brieze blocks, but why not go a all the way lol. Crazy indeed, however not impossible.
I am liking the madness of it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 15:40:57 GMT
Update:
A couple of distinct things are on my mind. When the Khozmo was in place as a passive device, I listened to a fair few vocal tracks. It revelled in it and revealed beauty and finesse. Recreation of the environment (old churches and the like) seemed to be very large when played back here, almost like the end of my room didn't have walls. With the DCB1 back in circuit, it's changed rather dramatically. A small bell is played in one track and without the DCB1 it kind of just hangs in the air. With the DCB1, it travels from left to right, gradually with every strike. However, the soundstage now seems to have become rather confined to a smaller area.
In passive mode, the Bass was slower, almost cumbersome and loose, uncontrolled. With the DCB1 involved, it's now tight, crisp and purposeful.
What's also blatantly obvious is that the Vishay caps have alleviated the balance issues the 600uf caused here, and are doing a rather good job. Tonally, we are pretty much identical between passive and buffered.
I was almost relieved to hear this as with these 880's I had fear of too much bass. I predicted the reduction of "boom" when the DCB1 went back in but I now have a decision to ponder.
The DCB1 was the perfect foil for the Krell but the 686 doesn't seem to need its help to sound transparent or insightful, it does that on its own. Do I return to the passive mode and keep the utterly beautiful vocals and the enormity of the soundstage, or do I stick with the DCB1 for the bass control, ridiculously detailed sound and urgency that was missing?
I suppose this is where most bits of kit fall in to the "recording dependant" categories. A passive for delicate tracks, the DCB1 for tracks that require urgency.
Another thing I am just realising is that the better your gear gets, the more prominent a role the recording can play. Should've kept my NAD312, that played everything lol
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No, I haven't got cable risers. I am not mental lol....although......
).