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Post by jimbo on Nov 23, 2020 6:39:26 GMT
Brillant Oli, its great to hear things are working out with the Yamahas. No wonder they have been a classic speaker for so long. Look forward to hearing them sometime soon when lockdown is eased but they sound like they are ticking many boxes and most importantly working in your room environment allowing you to enjoy music again.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2020 8:50:48 GMT
Biluant Oli, its great to hear things are working out with the Yamahas. No wonder they have been a classic speaker for so long. Look forward to hearing them sometime soon when lockdown is eased but they sound like they are ticking many boxes and most importantly working in your room environment allowing you to enjoy music again. It's been a relief. I had this horrible feeling that I'd have to start months of trying different speakers out but the Yams were a bit of a known quantity in term of design. Orders of magnitude better than the pioneers I had of similar construction, but have a very similar presentation. You'll like these Jim. |
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Post by karma67 on Nov 23, 2020 13:13:48 GMT
Quote
The thing that sticks out about them is it's like they allow you behind the staging area to see the behind the scenes stuff that is normally hidden by the performance up front. Quote
Are you sure they are round the right way?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2020 13:20:48 GMT
Quote The thing that sticks out about them is it's like they allow you behind the staging area to see the behind the scenes stuff that is normally hidden by the performance up front. Quote Are you sure they are round the right way? Ha ha lol |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2020 18:27:45 GMT
These things are HUGELY overpriced online. £22 a pair plus postage from the USA is ridiculous. Those terminals are cheap ass nasty brass and gold plated to look nice. They will be coming out. Backing plate is tidy though. Thick, heavy and nice quality. However, buy them at CPC for about £15 a pair of you need some 😉   |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 24, 2020 1:08:35 GMT
Almost three years to the day.........the beginning of the obsession with phonostages: theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?55371-Valve-Wizard-MM-valve-PCB-build/page1It was this little "Valve Wizard" phonostage that got my mind going about what could be done, IF Alans expertise and creative nature could be ushered, nay...nurtured, into making something that was as easy to build as this but had the SQ of his Vivant!. The biggest issue i had with the Valve Wizard was the lack of a predesigned power supply. You had to make your own and i just had no idea how to do it. That's when the idea struck....PSU on the PCB. Predesigned, for beginners! I knew then, as i do now, that if something as cheap as this Valve wizard was (£9), but could be so good to listen to & was beginner friendly, it would be popular with the beginner DIYers like me. And so it proved. But little did i know that we were creating a monster! The Idea of a "Bigbottle Phonostage" (as coined by @smangus) quickly started to grow out of my brain in terms of ideas, and into Alan's "to do" list of making sense of what i was telling him. I can't tell you how many conversations we've had about the BB, I cant tell you how many phonostages we've bought, loaned, or listened to & i can't tell you how much money it has cost me......I don't want to think about it lol But what i can tell you is this: When i got into HiFi in 2015 (i think) I never thought i'd still be doing it now, but this hobby has a way of getting into your mind and living there rent free! I have met some awesome people, some absolute wankers too. However they all created motivation and desire to either help them out or kick their ass in equal measure. We've had help along the way mind. Craig at Craigtone Audio did some wonderful work on the PCB layout. Rob did a great logo. SQ made it better quality, Paul gave us the idea of using more Jfets, Angus has given me shed loads of advice too.....the list goes on. I find myself busier now than i have ever been. Cables, phonostages and Prototype Preamps are eating up my week off work but i love it. I wonder what i'll be doing in another 3 years? Probably pissing about with digital lol |
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Post by firebottle on Nov 24, 2020 8:28:37 GMT
What's a BB, my brain's addled  ? No, it's been an interesting journey, also with lots of mirth, particularly recently. |
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Post by jimbo on Nov 24, 2020 8:31:25 GMT
Hey guys you know the journey is never over in this game!  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 24, 2020 8:58:28 GMT
What's a BB, my brain's addled ? No, it's been an interesting journey, also with lots of mirth, particularly recently. Yes, we've had a laugh along the way haven't we. Some of the things we've seen have been beyond lol |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 24, 2020 8:58:38 GMT
Hey guys you know the journey is never over in this game! That we do |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 24, 2020 9:41:12 GMT
The Soekris has landed....just as I'm about to leave the house!!! I'll leave it warming up  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 24, 2020 9:45:29 GMT
Warming up  |
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Post by jimbo on Nov 24, 2020 10:33:11 GMT
I am very excited about this one Oli! Must be killing you not to be able to pop that straight into your system! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 24, 2020 10:56:03 GMT
I am very excited about this one Oli! Must be killing you not to be able to pop that straight into your system! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Haha, had a quick listen just to check it works. I'm going to try it out properly once it's warm |
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Post by macca on Nov 24, 2020 12:02:32 GMT
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Post by stevew on Nov 24, 2020 12:46:47 GMT
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 24, 2020 14:18:10 GMT
This thing is bloody lively.
The bass is really punchy, tight and forceful!
HF are incredibly detailed.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 6, 2020 17:09:35 GMT
For the two weeks or so i have been using the built in volume control on the Soekris and listening to FBA for a couple of reasons:
1: I haven't got a phonostage at the minute
2: My preamp threw a wobbly and no matter what i tried, it just wouldn't throw any sound out of the left channel.
However, This has given me ample opportunity to see how the Soekris sounds and secondly, to see how the different volume control sound.
After Macca declaring the digital volume control in his DAC as being better than his DCB1, i was really keen to see how the BT2 and the AWM stepped attenuator would fare upon it's return.
The built in VC on the Soekris has been quite ijmpressive. The Bottom End felt like it filled out and fattened up a bit. The mids took on a more organic flavour and a richnesss developed in the vocals. Needless to say, this has been quite a great time to listen. Especially as Digital hasn't alway managed to deliver these textures and tonal qualities in my experience.
The urgency to rebuild my phonostage has not been at the forefront of my mind as much as it has been in recent times. A triumph!......well, no.
Today i rebuilt my BT2, with new op-amps and MLCC caps for the Op-amps. The use of MLCC caps in a preamp like this one may raise some eyebrows, afterall, i have repeatedly given Angus feedback on this unit and it is (IMO) the best preamp i have ever had in my system or heard with my own ears. They are purpose made for this very task, says Angus (designer) and when Angus talks, i listen. He know his onions.
So after plumbing everything back in with the BT2 in place, i sat down for a listen to the tracks i have played most over the last few weeks.
The First track i played was Sugar Mama - John Lee Hooker
It was night and day in terms of precision. The VC on the DAC sounded cumbersome in comparison. The imagin was much more vivid. Bass was tighter and the highs were far better defined.
Next track was Horror Inc - Dans La Nuit
It's a newer track on me but again, the DAC's VC thickened it up, whereas the BT2 seemed faster, cleaner and more energetic. This wasn't a subtle either.
I played on and on but eventually, it just kept repeating the same pattern. The BT2 was cleaner, faster and delivered more detail. I don't know what reason i would even offer up for this, other than maybe the help of the buffer in the pre was a difference, but yes, for me there was no contest. I am actually considering making one of these up as a buffer for between the DAC and 686 to see if the buffer is the difference.
As for why the BT2 threw a wobbly....no idea. I'll get it down to Angus for investigation.
Right now, i am just gonna enjoy the music.....it's nice to the BT2 back!
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Post by macca on Dec 8, 2020 8:55:14 GMT
So what is happening here? Whether you use a pre-amp or not the signal still goes through the volume control on the DAC?
Is it a digital volume control or analogue pot?
Only think I can think of is impedance mis-match hence why it is better with the BT2
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2020 9:03:22 GMT
So what is happening here? Whether you use a pre-amp or not the signal still goes through the volume control on the DAC? Is it a digital volume control or analogue pot? Only think I can think of is impedance mis-match hence why it is better with the BT2 The Soekris has the VC switched off when the BT2 is in situ, and as far as i know, when it's disabled, its not in the path...but i could be wrong. I dont think its a "pot" as such in the Soekris either? |
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Post by macca on Dec 8, 2020 12:10:22 GMT
checked, it's a digital volume control so volume is controlled before the D-A conversion. On paper this should be the best way to do it.
Two possibilities I can think of
1) You are losing too much dynamic range with the digital volume, enough to be noticeable. Unlikely but possible.
2) Impedance mis-match, I see the Soekris has 50 Ohm output, what's the input of the 686? Also unlikely unless the 686 is weird.
Otherwise can't see how adding another box of gubbins into the signal path can make an improvement to the sound, especially such a large one.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2020 12:20:09 GMT
checked, it's a digital volume control so volume is controlled before the D-A conversion. On paper this should be the best way to do it. Two possibilities I can think of 1) You are losing too much dynamic range with the digital volume, enough to be noticeable. Unlikely but possible. 2) Impedance mis-match, I see the Soekris has 50 Ohm output, what's the input of the 686? Also unlikely unless the 686 is weird. Otherwise can't see how adding another box of gubbins into the signal path can make an improvement to the sound, especially such a large one. I would suggest impedance is most likely but the 686 is not an abnormal amp. The BT2 is a very clever preamp. I think the buffer is probably the reason this is happening. The Soekris sounds a bit fat in the bottom end and a bit rich in the Mids when using the built in VC, the BT2 seems to clean everything up. Why they are so different, I don't know. You'd be welcome to loan the BT2 for a few days and see what happens there? Can you turn your volume control off? |
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Post by macca on Dec 8, 2020 13:25:16 GMT
No you can't turn it off but you can't on the Soekeris either, the 'bypass' is just setting it to full output. Obviously with a digital volume control you're setting the output level prior to the D-A conversion.
What is the input impedance of the 686?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2020 13:38:19 GMT
No you can't turn it off but you can't on the Soekeris either, the 'bypass' is just setting it to full output. Obviously with a digital volume control you're setting the output level prior to the D-A conversion. What is the input impedance of the 686? Well, it's disabled. The paperwork says anywhere between -03 to -00 is where to disable it, which is what I have done. No idea about the 686. I'll have to find out. |
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Post by firebottle on Dec 8, 2020 15:17:05 GMT
The input impedance stated for the balanced input chip is 48K ohm in balanced mode, so it would be 24K in single ended mode.
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Post by macca on Dec 8, 2020 17:38:10 GMT
The DAC is 50 ohm so no issue there.
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Post by misterc on Dec 8, 2020 17:52:48 GMT
Plenty of driving force to be had I feel  |
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Post by sq225917 on Dec 8, 2020 19:27:17 GMT
What volume level is the soerkis straight into the amps. My dac is at -40db when run direct and thats defo eating into the bits vs ,-20db typical when feeding my pre.
Analogue volume control scales noise with level digital doesn't. So noise increases proportionally as you turn digital volume down, is snr gets worse at lower volume.
Could be why
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2020 19:55:59 GMT
What volume level is the soerkis straight into the amps. My dac is at -40db when run direct and thats defo eating into the bits vs ,-20db typical when feeding my pre. Analogue volume control scales noise with level digital doesn't. So noise increases proportionally as you turn digital volume down, is snr gets worse at lower volume. Could be why Ah, not thought of that. I also don't know the answer to the question, sorry. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 14, 2020 14:36:19 GMT
Been a busy week or so here at the Bigblog, so thought i had better catch you all up with the latest goings on! NovaFidelity N15D: After a barnstormer of a trip down to see Tony @ Coherent System and have a listen to his system, i returned home with a NFN15D. The all singing, all dancing network adapter that will act as the transport for the Soekris 1421. Unfortunately, for some reason it wouldn't connect to the internet. As this unit relies on the internet for it's interface, this pretty much rendered it a glittering aluminium door stop. I spent a good 2 hours faffing about with it and tried about 8 different Ethernet cables but it wasn't having it. The joys of computer Audio. However, in true "Tony" style, a brand spanking new one landed here a day or two after and i was playing music about 60 seconds after i switched it all on. THIS is what i wanted. A simple to use, one stop solution for getting files from the SSD to the Soekris. It must be said too that Tony was absolutely on the ball in regard to the replacement unit. I haven't bought one, it's a home loan too...so extra Kudos for that. The unit itself is very nicely put together and early listening suggests it may be here to stay. I will elaborate more on this unit when i have had a serious session and started a thread on it. HECO Celan GT 502:Having been a new owner of Yamaha NS1000M for about 1 month, i felt they were settling in very well and in truth i have been really enjoying the way they make music. Visitors here (business of course and all socially distanced as well as possible) have left with their historical opinions of the Yammys in tatters. Needless to say, they are doing "the Bizzo" as my pal in Australia says. When this week started, i was not looking for speakers. Until i was. Being a huge fan of the HECO Celan GT702 that jimbo uses, and Phonomac, I was drawn to an advert from Germany about HECO speakers. I have a few tabs open that constantly monitor the buzzwords i put in. "HECO CELAN" is one of them. The advert showed a smaller pair of the Celan Range....the GT 502......My mind started to tick over. I used one of my HiFi mining tools and dug up a pair of Heco Celan GT 502 in Germany. In fact they are all in Germany. However, as i have many irons in many fires, it just so happens that i have a contact, that has a very reliable and extremely helpful contact in Germany, who has previously enabled the purchases of items from Germany and got them shipped to the UK. I decided that i should see if that avenue could be open for me. Luckily it was, and there is now a strong possibility of a pair of these landing in the UK with my name on. Obviously this means the Yams will be moving on, but that is already sorted and delivery is being made on Saturday. The Hecos: www.heco-audio.de/en/detail/index/sArticle/2926475In all honesty, the idea of the Yams going is giving me strong anxiety. They have been superb here and delivered heft, slam and real neutrality. This could be one of the worst decisions i have made in the terms of my system, but i just feel i need to try and shoe horn a pair of Hecos in here and see what happens. I don't like the idea that i could have tried them and didn't. I am weird that way. I like floor standing speakers and the slimmer cabs do image differently to the wide fronted 70's numbers. But the sealed cab and the big 12" bass driver has really dug in and clung to my heart strings. This is a tough one. Time will tell. |
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