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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2020 12:34:47 GMT
KEF R3 could be good then. |
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Post by antonio on Nov 9, 2020 13:27:37 GMT
DON'T DO IT. Go and listen to some Tannoys and Fyne speakers and any others that take your fancy. When I heard Yammies couldn't help but think what all the fuss was about, detailed yes, but thin and unlistenable to me. If I were you I'd be looking at stand mounters, amazing what bass can be achieved nowadays. Another option, Klipsch RP600m, purchase off Amazon, if you don't like send back. A couple more to muddy the waters, Monitor Audio G100 or PL100. Did Audio Al havw a pair of small Raidho's for sale?
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Post by antonio on Nov 9, 2020 13:29:16 GMT
Sorry my above post was interupted by someone calling round, and would now appear to be out of date.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2020 13:50:55 GMT
antonio @cageyh maccaDave, Ha! yes i know your concerns are valid and are echo'd by other people who have heard and advised on this subject. However, i have heard Yammies a couple of times and on both occasions i was left with a very positive impression. Admittedly, not in a room of this size, but I walked away after the second listen to a pair and bought the Pioneer CS-77A. I had this (again slightly differnet) speakers against the wall on lumps of wood and ran them with a Krell KSA100 MK2. Yes, i had a little bloom at times and as Martin (macca) pointed out at the time, i needed to get it under control BUT i then changed the system and the Pioneers left. Thing is, i reckon they are easier to tame than the 880's ever would be or a 10" pile driver of a sub! I may get at karma67 to knock up some stands for them and use some ravioli pads, which have been quite a sensation in the setup at the moment. Placing all of that on some megalith hard wood bases may JUST make this work. The 10" sub doesnt rattle the floor on exactly this setup. I am not entering this without a plan so i feel i may be able to pull it off. If not, then i will sell them on or keep them in storage. I can live with some boom on the odd track, or the odd room node kicking up, but the 880's were sending shockwaves around the room and the fiddling with the Quadrals is making life very tiresome. Martin, Should i collect these from Warrington on Sunday and they demonstrate they will NOT work in my room, they are yours for the price i paid. 100% Kevin, Yes, it's quite possible the crossovers need a refresh, and also the terminals on the back need to go as they won't be anywhere near workable. I have binding posts etc, so thats no issue, and having angus, Alan and SQ available to consult i am pretty sure i can sort any issues out with the crossover. I really like the look of those Kef speakers and if these don't work out, i may go there next
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2020 14:27:49 GMT
The KEF do look good. Hopefully you don't need to go there though.
They were on my shortlist, but I decided I wanted floor standing speakers, and found a pair at a bargain price, which I could not refuse.
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Post by antonio on Nov 9, 2020 15:25:24 GMT
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Post by da2222 on Nov 9, 2020 16:50:59 GMT
I'm probably sounding like a broken record, however... I use and have used Edingdales in much less than ideal rooms. You want deep, controlled bass? You've got it in spades, amazing stat-like mids and detailed highs. For the price of a S/H pair it's a no brainer. Easy to drive (94 db) and equally at home with lowly powered SET amps or SS. Yet to hear any other speakers that come close below 3 grand.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2020 17:34:50 GMT
I'm probably sounding like a broken record, however... I use and have used Edingdales in much less than ideal rooms. You want deep, controlled bass? You've got it in spades, amazing stat-like mids and detailed highs. For the price of a S/H pair it's a no brainer. Easy to drive (94 db) and equally at home with lowly powered SET amps or SS. Yet to hear any other speakers that come close below 3 grand. Edingdales are big speakers, and it's not so much how the bass is controlled, although that obviously has and effect, its more about how much energy they throw into the room. Big speakers like that move a lot of air. I need to move less air and push less energy into the floor. They have 4 drivers and are ported. The lowest driver will sit way too close to the floor in comparison with how high i can get stand mounts or Yammies off the ground. This had a big effect on things when i did some recent experiments. Seriously, if the Quadrals had the tonal quality i need, then i would now be sorted. They worked in the room. The yammies would be a return(ish) to a speaker type that worked well in the space on the end of a bass monster of an amplifier. They Yammies are more refined, controlled, precise, tonally accurate and overall easier to "tame" than any ported speaker i have put in my room. I knew what the Pioneers needed but never got to it. I have an idea how to get these to sing, more of an idea that i do with anything else, so if this doesnt work out i will get a pair of Kef Reference 1/Tannoy Eaton Legacy/Insert any generic brand and accept defeat. |
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Post by macca on Nov 9, 2020 17:42:07 GMT
I've not heard the Edingdale in a room as small as Ollie's but I think you're right that they would probably work. I don't think they actually go that low in the bass, though? Maybe 45 Hz?
The thing with the NS1000 though is bass is already rolling off by 50 hz so less likely to excite the room. And being infinite baffles they don't have that peak in the bass just before they roll off which a lot - but not all - ported speakers have. And why a lot of people complain about ported speakers setting the room off even though they don't actually have much low bass at all.
Plus if there is still too much bass you can pull them out from the wall a bit to sort it as they are designed to go against a boundary, being bookshelf speakers.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2020 18:06:01 GMT
I've not heard the Edingdale in a room as small as Ollie's but I think you're right that they would probably work. I don't think they actually go that low in the bass, though? Maybe 45 Hz? The thing with the NS1000 though is bass is already rolling off by 50 hz so less likely to excite the room. And being infinite baffles they don't have that peak in the bass just before they roll off which a lot - but not all - ported speakers have. And why a lot of people complain about ported speakers setting the room off even though they don't actually have much low bass at all.
Plus if there is still too much bass you can pull them out from the wall a bit to sort it as they are designed to go against a boundary, being bookshelf speakers. Exactly this. I have very little space to accomodate speakers that nee to breathe, which is 90% of stuff. The NS1000M are not the same set of problems as with ported speakers. The positioning is also a key factor on my thought process. Sq gave me the distance from the wall that he has his positioned and i can easily accomodate them in that regard. Distance tweeter to tweeter is a little closer, but my seating position is further away than his...just. He has more room to the side of them, but when the Piano has been relocated, i will be able to squeeze another 0.5m between them and still get them 0.5m away from the side wall....just about. On some hugely heavy wooden plinths, atop nice heay metal stands, i can see this being quite workable. |
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Post by da2222 on Nov 9, 2020 18:11:09 GMT
I've not heard the Edingdale in a room as small as Ollie's but I think you're right that they would probably work. I don't think they actually go that low in the bass, though? Maybe 45 Hz? Bass response for the Edingdales goes to 20hz----pretty low! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2020 18:13:17 GMT
Bass response for the Edingdales goes to 20hz----pretty low! Thats low enough to cause me issues beyond saving....i knew i was right lol |
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Post by da2222 on Nov 9, 2020 18:24:06 GMT
Haha...You're probably right. However I've had them in small rooms with 2 sets of double glass doors and though it wasn't optimal, they were still very good. No significant air displacement either. Sounds like you're better looking elsewhere though, given your requirements.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 9, 2020 18:58:09 GMT
Haha...You're probably right. However I've had them in small rooms with 2 sets of double glass doors and though it wasn't optimal, they were still very good. No significant air displacement either. Sounds like you're better looking elsewhere though, given your requirements. It's a tough ask as the floor is very excitable... sacrifices must be made. Seriously, if they don't work I'll move them on. |
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Post by gninnam on Nov 9, 2020 19:48:46 GMT
I think my room is a little bit smaller than yours and for a good few years I ran with the Quad 12l's - I was really happy with them and for me sounded really good.
Now have the Reiver Jenna's - a floor stander and seem to work well in the smaller room but not seen another pair for sale......
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Post by antonio on Nov 10, 2020 0:21:06 GMT
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2020 16:50:14 GMT
Danish Bacon, Goalkeepers and DACsDenmark has given the world some rather impressive things over the years. Peter Schmeichel is still considered as in the top 3 goalkeepers of all time. Danish Bacon is still the best bacon....and maybe it's given us an interesting DAC? The Soekris 1421 is a R2R DAC designed in Denmark by DIY audio enthusiast Soren. In fact, he went a step further and started to sell his DAC's as a product line. The 1421 being described as: "The dac1421 has the same features, performance and quality as the top end dac1541, just without the balanced signal chain.
It have the fantastic clean and natural sound of a 27 bit R-2R sign magnitude DAC, built with over two hundred tiny and very precise thin film resistors. The line output buffer is a high performance zero feedback design built with discrete parts, the buffer also have a high power mode to drive any set of Headphones. The main power supplies are ultra low loise, low impedance and very fast, also built with discrete parts"I came to know of Sorens work during a recent bout of "staying up too late to read about HiFi" Very interesting i thought. Afterall, i have long been intrigued by the Chinese R2R DAC, the Denafrips. I contacted soren via email and asked if a loan unit was available. He'd recently sent one to the most ridiculously name forum on earth "The SuperBestFriendsHiFIForum" or whatever its called, and in truth it recieved a rather muted response. However, they are die hard Shiit fanboys and the fact they all prefered their "Ygdrassls" made no real surprise here. Lunatics. However, it seems Soren doesnt particularly give a Sh#t about responding to emails or PM's, as to date i've sent 4 and he hasnt been arsed to tell me anything....he hasnt responded to a single attempt to contact him. "Bollocks to the Soekris" i told myself, and carried on looking at such beauties as the Denafrimps and Holo Audio's of this world. It seemed fate had decided to step in a few days ago. A DAC 1541 (TOTL) had been advertised on PFM and i'd just logged in to to ask some questions, only to see it had sold. I was not destined to listen to a Soekris. I accepted the HiFi gods decisions and went about my day. After all, i was getting new speakers! Whilst sat at work, a link popped up on YouTube....a link to the LessLoss Echos End DAC. I watched the video and thought it sounded pretty good, even for youtube. I didn't agre with the fellas opinion on his DAC comparison, so I did a little googling and found the LessLoss Echos End cost $34,000....WHAT!!! After i recovered my composure from laughing in shock, i did some reading. BOOM....what the F#ck is that doing in there? Yes, you guessed it, a Soekris R2R OEM board was sat pride of place in the guts of this thing. More reading ensued and sure enough, this R2R board driven LessLoss was getting some startling reviews...except in America where they obviously dont listen for the same things i do. I felt a bit like this thing was trying to tell me something, so i did a Google search of my usual HiFi finding spots and there were no Soekris DACs for sale anywhere. Hmm, i let it go and carried on with my speaker shenanigans. This morning, ebay sent me a notification.....a Soekris 1421 was for sale in Ukraine.....What do i do? You guessed it. I bought it. So ladies and gentlemen, when it arrives i will update the thread. It's got SUPER stiff competition in the PecanPi. My love for the PecanPI is totally justified, but my curiosity needs to know what the R2R RAC can offer. I'm obviously not expecting it to be a $34k DAC, or even sound like one lol, but i am hopeful it can show me what all the fuss is about.   
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Post by firebottle on Nov 18, 2020 17:04:04 GMT
Begs the question 'what does a $34k DAC sound like?'
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2020 17:08:23 GMT
Begs the question 'what does a $34k DAC sound like?' I did wonder, and then i wondered if any of us here except misterc and @maxtownshend would be able to actually hear it's supposed value in full? Probably not! lol |
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Post by macca on Nov 18, 2020 17:22:11 GMT
Begs the question 'what does a $34k DAC sound like?' like you paid $33K too much for it. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2020 17:26:48 GMT
HAHAHAHA! quite right!
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Post by macca on Nov 18, 2020 18:00:27 GMT
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Post by misterc on Nov 18, 2020 18:27:25 GMT
$34K dac tish, try the MSB R2R version at well over £50K you could purchase a whole street in some areas of Liverpool for that amount   allegedly the best dac Never been a fan of less loss stuff but the yanks like it a lot  That module is in a few Polish dac's as well or a rip off / derivative is by the look of them claiming almost identical spec's  The Dac itself is quite unremarkable, apart from the ultra precision R2R stage, its sports a basic spartan 6 pgfa, Ok digital isolation transformers, off the self switching psu usual XMOS usb decoding chip-set in fairness they must have a good pick and place machine soldering looks good  However the J-tag header @ J2 could yield some interesting information once interrogated see if Soren is using some interesting data manipulation techniques  The now discontinued 1541 models was using Meanwell ac/dc switching psu's neat compact devices with good line regulation but poor rf radiated characteristics, in some applications they are great but for digital audio not for me. But cost is a factor here so you have to take this into account when setting a retail price plus you are dealing direct so no distributor to furnish. Plenty of potential in those dac to bring out some quality performance to Interesting Amir made the point of possible psu leakage I would concur there's a first lol I would also be measuring much further up the frequency spectrum as well as those switchers tend to work between 50K-400Khz so harmonic contaminants will be getting up into the .5Ghz range more than enough to upset the clocks, Fpga's and other I/C's which will effect the sound in the audio bands without question. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2020 19:08:49 GMT
Isn't that better than your DAC having a better SNR than the amplifier? At least I know the bottleneck isn't the amp lol |
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Post by stevew on Nov 18, 2020 20:00:38 GMT
$34K dac tish, try the MSB R2R version at well over £50K you could purchase a whole street in some areas of Liverpool for that amount allegedly the best dac Never been a fan of less loss stuff but the yanks like it a lot That module is in a few Polish dac's as well or a rip off / derivative is by the look of them claiming almost identical spec's The Dac itself is quite unremarkable, apart from the ultra precision R2R stage, its sports a basic spartan 6 pgfa, Ok digital isolation transformers, off the self switching psu usual XMOS usb decoding chip-set in fairness they must have a good pick and place machine soldering looks good However the J-tag header @ J2 could yield some interesting information once interrogated see if Soren is using some interesting data manipulation techniques The now discontinued 1541 models was using Meanwell ac/dc switching psu's neat compact devices with good line regulation but poor rf radiated characteristics, in some applications they are great but for digital audio not for me. But cost is a factor here so you have to take this into account when setting a retail price plus you are dealing direct so no distributor to furnish. Plenty of potential in those dac to bring out some quality performance to Interesting Amir made the point of possible psu leakage I would concur there's a first lol I would also be measuring much further up the frequency spectrum as well as those switchers tend to work between 50K-400Khz so harmonic contaminants will be getting up into the .5Ghz range more than enough to upset the clocks, Fpga's and other I/C's which will effect the sound in the audio bands without question. Point of order your honour. My daughter just moved out of Liverpool (she works for the Philharmonic) £100k gets you a one bed flat or a terrace in the Dingle. The defence rests. |
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Post by sq225917 on Nov 18, 2020 20:13:16 GMT
Let's be honest, if any of you pre, powers or dac don't do -110db then its Sh#t...
Lol
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 18, 2020 20:35:40 GMT
Let's be honest, if any of you pre, powers or dac don't do -110db then its Sh#t... Lol Lol....oh god.... |
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Post by antonio on Nov 19, 2020 2:30:58 GMT
I'll beg to differ with your earlier post Bigman regarding Danish bacon. British bacon is far and away tastier, that's if you can find it in any of our supermarkets. I've asked in many and the answer, don't know why we haven't any.
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Post by jimbo on Nov 19, 2020 6:45:52 GMT
I agree British Bacon can be very good but I feel you have to buy it from a butcher who cures his own.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 22, 2020 22:29:47 GMT
The Yamaha NS1000 have been in the system for a week now, so i thought i would just chronicle a bit of the journey so far. In truth, and i rarely ever say this.....The Yam's seemed a bit all over the place for the first 2/3 days. Sometimes they were epic, sometimes they were a little soft and vague. However, by the end of the day 4 they seemed to be firing on all cylinders. I am not sure why but i know sometimes that when you move speakers and the room temp is different, humidity is different and even what they are being fed with can have an effect like this so i didn't really critique them to critically until Friday and Saturday. For the duration i have been using the PecanPi DAC as the BB3 was in Warrington. With the guy i bough the Yams off lol. By the end of the week i was totally absorbed by what the Yams were putting out. I pretty much ignored the majority of my file collection and used the Putamayo series of African recordings. I find them to be superbly recorded and the range of different instruments they use makes it a really interesting experience. There were times that little clicks of wooden sticks were appearing out of thin air! As you are all well aware by now, i am totally focused on tone and took the opportunity to see how the Yams did at recreating the sound of my guitar. well folks, they absolutely nailed it. It was a spine tingling moment. I played through a few acoustic tracks and the tonality is absolutely spot on. Bass is not lacking either. It elastic, fast(ish) and is a lot better integrated now than it was. There were a few tracks i played (mp3) and the HF was a little aggressive but on 98% of everything FLAC or AIFF/WAV, it was totally fluid, smooth and had a level of liquidity i didn't think they were possible of. I have been so impressed by the digital of late that i felt i may be on the road to recovery from my analogue addiction. I bought a Soekris R2R DAC as i finally felt the digital was so good on this system with the Yam's that i would be able to do a meaningful comparison with the PecanPi. A a couple of days ago, jimbo tipped me off for a good test track by a band/group/ensemble caller Horror...something? Cant remember their name but he was right. It is a proper workout of any speaker. Electronic stuff, so definitely not my usual material. However i have come to like a few of their tracks and yes, the Yams are blasting it out with ease. The thing that sticks out about them is it's like they allow you behind the staging area to see the behind the scenes stuff that is normally hidden by the performance up front. These are 100% the missing piece of the puzzle and knowing they can only get better with a recap and new wiring makes me wonder just what is left in there to reveal. Vinyl will get a little look in this week until the phonostage gets finished off to send to it's new owner in India. This is a lot of fun. |
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