The Bigblog!

Speaker journey

So, today i have spend more than a few hours tweaking, changing cables, changing mains etc and tried to use everything i could to get this Quadral setup right. I moved the sub to the line where the speakers were sat and set about fine tuning everything.

Within about an hour I knew I had my work cut out for me. I used the same track misterc and i used (ZZ Top - Blue Jean Blues) and got i dialed in quite nicely to where it was prior to the sub moving.

Afew minutes later and a change of track and i was up fiddling with the sub to get the bass right on that track. Sat down and listened and on to the next track….yup, i had to get up and adjust it again.

You see, with every different track, the bass levels were all over the place. I would get it right and then change to another and the bass would be almost ridiculous.

I realised i had to dial everything way out and start again.

This time i removed any cable that i didnt own and put all of my own stuff in. I then took a rather well recorded piece of guitar and played my guitar until i had them almost identical in tonality. The fine tuning of the sub allowed some texture and organic matter into the sound. Now you may wonder why i did this…..well it was my guitar in the recording and me playing it….so lets just say i am familiar with the tonal qualities of it. I still accept this may be flawed but i got it to the point where the gaffer was second guessing which was playing….me or system.

I then played a few tracks and F#ck me, it was stunning...i mean the guitar sounded incredible on John Van Der Veers Mambo Jumbo...Lifelike and texture. Palpable and tactile…”i’ve cracked this” i thought.

More acoustic wonderment ensued and i lost 3 hours from the AM of the day and only realised it was 13:00 when my phone went off….wow. I was getting some really absorbing stuff.

The call ended and I played Phoebe Bridgers - Halloween…..

At this point I thought I may be wasting my time. The track is a bass monster so i allowed some concession but christ….i just turned it off. Hmmm.

Paul Weller - Black is the Colour…..Absolutely amazing for the first part of the song and then the second half if rattling the doors off the hinges.

On to other stuff and some sounded brilliant….REALLY BRILLIANT and others were so unlistenable, i just turned them off.

SO what do I do here?

To get the tonality right of the instruments and vocals I need to adjust the crossover frequency. When I do that, on some material I am absolutely gobsmacked. Genuinely. These Quadral Speakers are outrageously articulate, fast and truthful. They offer insight, detail and real see through performance, but without the sub they don’t have enough body or believable mass to convince me it’s real.

That's really important to me.

See, the sub…...wow. It’s tight, fast, controlled and the bass is of such high quality that it’s not booming, but its out of context with the music….almost like it takes over.

I have tried 180 phase, lowering and raising the crossover point. Silver cable (did help a little) different mains cable, but when i dial it in on one track, it's miles out on another. I know this is going to be the case whatever i do as the issue is the mix but the sub seems to exacerbate the problem. To get the feel of the music, i am teetering on the brink of overpowering the speakers.

I havent even tried Vinyl yet and as i know there is generally less control in the analogue, vs digital, i am now pretty convinced that this set up, whilst causing “F#ck me” moments of both the good and bad type, may not make it possible to just sit down and listen.

I have had sealed speakers with a Krell KSA100 that didn’t cause me this much issue in the bass!

I am now thinking I should go back down this route and accept that I may just have to live with a really high quality percentage of the available frequency range, rather than trying to get HF and LF extension, and cutting the middle out. Which isn’t far off what I am doing I suppose.

The Pioneers weren’t transparent enough on the evidence of all the speakers I have heard since and that rules a return to them, out.

I suppose the sensible choice is a pair of Yamaha’s/JBL Monitors, which are often bemoaned for their lack of deep bass. I suspect that the room may actually help them in that regard and whilst it won't be ideal, i may be able to just forget they are there and get back to listening to music.…..

I’ll continue tweaking for now and i am in no rush to do anything.

You mention phase and crossover freq but is there a level control for the sub?
If not that's what you need.

Yes mate, played with sub and without and without the sub it's a non starter. There isnt enough organic matter from the speaker on it's own.

There's going to be an optimum for level and crossover that suits the speakers and the room.
I had my sub set too high on crossover and too low on level for years.

The wisdom is that the sub doesn't draw attention to itself, but you do notice when it isn't there.

Oli, I real feel for you mate, sounds like your going through hell trying to get the best setup.

Have always enjoyed Revel and Amphion speakers whenever I've heard them. One more to put into the mix, Boenicke W5, was amazed how big they sounded for such a small speaker, and they did sound good.

Yammies are about the right size and maybe suitable although after the excellent Pioneers I would look to more vintage speakers with large woofers?

I din't think you are going to find audio nirvana while you still have a compromised listening space. This is something you are going tonhave to accept.

I think a small pair of floor standers, or some decent sized stand mounts are going to be needed. This is one area where it is very difficult to find something suitable.

To be honest, I was surprised that the 880s worked in your space, as they were HUGE.

As for what you can get, I cannot offer any advice as I have never seen your room, and O don't have enough experience of speakers.

The Amphions are bass light so might work, I wouldn't pay the amount they are asking for them though, would have to be second hand.

I wouldn't even consider a 2-way speaker if I were you. Always a big compromise and you are used to a three-way.

I would have kept the Mordaunt Shorts and used DSP or analogue EQ to tame the bass but that ship has sailed.

Really don't think you will go far wrong with the NS1000M. If you really don't like them you can sell them on to me

I'll have a look

Something line this.

I'm going in for a pair of Yamaha's mate....it's a logical move based on what we know about the room with other similar speakers.

Already got a buyer if they don't workout..

Free swing as I call it

KEF R3 could be good then.