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Post by antonio on May 16, 2024 14:11:14 GMT
"My Steely Dan box set landed today, so that's going to be playing a large part in this too." What, as a weight to put on top of the dacs.  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 17, 2024 15:04:40 GMT
"My Steely Dan box set landed today, so that's going to be playing a large part in this too." What, as a weight to put on top of the dacs. You know, i was really sceptical about buying a box set as i am never sure about the SQ. The sound quality of this boxset surpasses any of the file versions i have. It's immense. I haven't listened to all of it yet, but damn...superb sound. |
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Post by Bigman80 on May 17, 2024 15:08:53 GMT
DAC To The Future.......Part one!
I have been having a play with all three dacs today. I let them all have the same amount of time to warm up and i have to say, i am SO impressed with my favourite DACs from the past. They are even better now than they were before. I was almost concerned that i wouldn't rate them as highly in the system due to having them at a time where things were not optimum.
Seems the old system didn't prevent me picking a couple of absolute winners.
That said, i have been eyeing up a fourth candidate in the last few weeks. A DAC i think may be quite interesting. It should be here tomorrow.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 18, 2024 16:24:01 GMT
The newcomer is here   |
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Post by markn on May 18, 2024 17:08:11 GMT
Good luck Oli. I am (and I am sure others are too) looking forward to reading your comparisons.
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Post by macca on May 18, 2024 18:02:29 GMT
I'll wager one hundred Quatloos on the newcomer.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 18, 2024 18:04:10 GMT
I'll wager one hundred Quatloos on the newcomer. 😂 |
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Post by Bigman80 on May 20, 2024 21:07:33 GMT
You must all be getting a little inkling by now that this comparison of DACs hasn't been as straightforward as I'd have hoped. It's been a bit of a topsy turvy few days, but here's the nutshell:
1) Topping Octo DAC
The good:
After 48 hours burn in it has Incredible resolution and transparency...beyond anything I have had here, or have heard from a DAC before. Sensational in that respect. Great Imaging and spacious soundstage.
The not so good:
Compared to the D70S, Soekris 2541 and Aqvox, this DAC sounds dry and quite lean. It is t scalpal like, but it's certainly 5% body fat. As tonality is incredibly important to me, the Octo isn't staying.
The tonality did not change in 48hrs.
2) Soekris
As good as I remember. It doesn't punch in the face like the drums via the Aqvox, but it's certainly competitive for transparency etc.
Still a great DAC. Although I still prefer the slightly meatier approach of the D70S and the Aqvox, I would be happy to listen to this DAC for long sessions.
3) Aqvox
It's still the DAC of choice Vs anything I have ever owned, or maybe even heard. It's the only DAC I have heard with the ability to reproduce a life-like soundscape, with the audible insight that included being able to hear a hand landing on a tambourine skin and make it sound REAL.
It's a phenomenal DAC once upgraded.
4) Soooooooo close to the Aqvox, but still just a step off it. Tonally it's almost identical. Soundstage is a little more condensed, the ability to reproduce that hand landing on the tambourine is exclusive to the Aqvox, but the D70S has a good go. Just doesn't quite convince. Possibly not quite as transparent as the Aqvox, in fact, it isn't.
It's not an Aqvox, but when I play music through it, it doesn't seem to matter too much. Great dynamics, hard hitting drums and throaty brass with great timbre.
A bargain, and hard to beat all ends up.
I'll buy another Aqvox, but the D70S makes this a "one day" task, rather than a RIGHT NOW task.
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Post by lurch on May 20, 2024 21:32:24 GMT
Maybe you should persuade Phil to pop round with his mega pimped Black Ice. I run mine with tfk 83s and even when in only its medium pimped guise it wasn't £11.5k & £20k behind a twin psu MSNB discrete and dCS Rossini.
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Post by Bigman80 on May 20, 2024 21:53:47 GMT
Maybe you should persuade Phil to pop round with his mega pimped Black Ice. I run mine with tfk 83s and even when in only its medium pimped guise it wasn't £11.5k & £20k behind a twin psu MSNB discrete and dCS Rossini. I'd be happy to give it a listen |
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Post by optical on May 21, 2024 7:07:19 GMT
Maybe you should persuade Phil to pop round with his mega pimped Black Ice. I run mine with tfk 83s and even when in only its medium pimped guise it wasn't £11.5k & £20k behind a twin psu MSNB discrete and dCS Rossini. From recent experience I am also running a DAC with the tele 83's (and a rare 12bh7), without them it's still decent and is a satisfying listen, with them however it's absolutely the secret sauce and raises EVERYTHING up a few notches. Valves are a tuning aid but certainly in my case, make or break the whole package. I wish this wasn't the case (due to availability of quality valves now as well as the 'wear' factor), but it just is  |
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Post by antonio on May 21, 2024 9:42:17 GMT
Topping must be doing something different with the D70S if it is meatier than the Soekris. Hope you enjoyed doing the comparisons.  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 21, 2024 21:55:39 GMT
Topping must be doing something different with the D70S if it is meatier than the Soekris. Hope you enjoyed doing the comparisons. The D70S is very different to the other Toppings I have heard. |
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Post by brucew268 on May 22, 2024 9:08:17 GMT
Not to tempt but Aqvox has their DAC on offer, 33% off down to 998 EUR. Perhaps that is usual or perhaps they are trying to finish their stock?
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Post by pete on May 22, 2024 11:16:15 GMT
Not to tempt but Aqvox has their DAC on offer, 33% off down to 998 EUR. Perhaps that is usual or perhaps they are trying to finish their stock? It’s a cracking DAC |
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Post by bencat on May 22, 2024 11:35:15 GMT
Oli sorry that this question is quite late but there are various versions of the Topping D70 with different chip sets . Which is the one you are using ?
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Post by zleepy on May 22, 2024 12:28:25 GMT
I have modded an Aqvox DAC extensively. SMPS swapped to LPSU, all lytic caps exchanged for Panasonic FM, output caps swapped, main board regulators swapped.
It's quite a lot of work and there's plenty of opportunities to screw up (which I did but somehow avoided damaging my unit). Personally I would not undertake the mods on a new unit for which I had paid full price. I got mine for cheap and modded it purely as an experiment as I enjoy such projects.
I was totally taken with it's performance once modded!
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Post by Bigman80 on May 22, 2024 18:00:02 GMT
Oli sorry that this question is quite late but there are various versions of the Topping D70 with different chip sets . Which is the one you are using ? The D70S MQA has 2x AKM4497 It's sonic imprint is very different to other Topping DACs. Much richer and tonally dense. |
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Post by Bigman80 on May 22, 2024 18:01:48 GMT
I have modded an Aqvox DAC extensively. SMPS swapped to LPSU, all lytic caps exchanged for Panasonic FM, output caps swapped, main board regulators swapped. It's quite a lot of work and there's plenty of opportunities to screw up (which I did but somehow avoided damaging my unit). Personally I would not undertake the mods on a new unit for which I had paid full price. I got mine for cheap and modded it purely as an experiment as I enjoy such projects. I was totally taken with it's performance once modded! It's absolutely worth the effort. It's a great DAC. |
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Post by zleepy on May 23, 2024 5:25:15 GMT
Yes it is, and regarding the mods all credit goes to Oli and Alan for paving the way. I'm just a copycat.  |
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Post by bencat on May 24, 2024 11:00:24 GMT
Oli do not want to contradict someone with your knowledge but I am going to be brave anyway and do it . The Topping DAC Octo in your pictures does not have any AKM Chips but as it name suggests 8 Cirrus CS43198 4 per side . It is the D70 Velvet that has the AKM chip set .
Using mulitple linked chips in this way often results in lower noise and great head room .
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Post by optical on May 24, 2024 11:04:09 GMT
Oli do not want to contradict someone with your knowledge but I am going to be brave anyway and do it . The Topping DAC Octo in your pictures does not have any AKM Chips but as it name suggests 8 Cirrus CS43198 4 per side . It is the D70 Velvet that has the AKM chip set . There are two dfferent Topping DAC's being referred to and on test here: D70S (AKM chips), D70 Pro Octo (Cirrus chips). Confusingly both have the initial model number "D70". |
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Post by bencat on May 24, 2024 11:07:09 GMT
Thanks I doubted that Oli would get it wrong it is just me getting confused over which one was being used at each time . Perhaps it would be easier if the names Velvet and Octo was used to be clear for people of slow brains like me .
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Post by Bigman80 on May 24, 2024 11:57:57 GMT
Oli do not want to contradict someone with your knowledge but I am going to be brave anyway and do it . The Topping DAC Octo in your pictures does not have any AKM Chips but as it name suggests 8 Cirrus CS43198 4 per side . It is the D70 Velvet that has the AKM chip set . There are two dfferent Topping DAC's being referred to and on test here: D70S (AKM chips), D70 Pro Octo (Cirrus chips). Confusingly both have the initial model number "D70". Yes, thank you for explaining Chris. bencat you are absolutely right to seek clarification 👍🏻 |
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Post by brucew268 on May 24, 2024 13:00:07 GMT
There are two dfferent Topping DAC's being referred to and on test here: D70S (AKM chips), D70 Pro Octo (Cirrus chips). Confusingly both have the initial model number "D70". Yes, thank you for explaining Chris. bencat you are absolutely right to seek clarification 👍🏻 Probably could use some further clarification: Looking for D70S comes up with D70 Pro Sabre and D70 Pro Octo, neither of which use AKM chips, though the E70 Velvet does. So, I take it your D70S is no longer produced. |
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Post by Bigman80 on May 24, 2024 13:34:27 GMT
Yes, thank you for explaining Chris. bencat you are absolutely right to seek clarification 👍🏻 Probably could use some further clarification: Looking for D70S comes up with D70 Pro Sabre and D70 Pro Octo, neither of which use AKM chips, though the E70 Velvet does. So, I take it your D70S is no longer produced. Yes, that's correct. It's a much older model and was described at the time as very much misaligned with the sound of Toppings D90 They are not commonly found. www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d70s-mqa-review-dac.18728/ Features: 2*AK4497:AK4497 is flagship model in AKM company. We use a full AK4497 forevery channel in D70s.Resulting in better channel separation and batter spec. THD+N has even exceeded the performance marked by the AK4497 datasheet. Bluetooth 5.0 L DAC transmission:D70s has the certification of Hi-Res Audio Wireless and LDAC. It uses CSR8675 chipset to support LDACIAAC/SBC/APTX/APTX LL/APTX HD protocol. Support DSD512 & PCM32bit768kHz High Resolution Music:D70s uses 2nd generation 16 core XMOS XU216, USB supports up to PCM32bit768kHz, DSD512 native and MQA decode. With the help of customized Thesycon driver(for Win 7 or above), your PC will have better performance on ASIO playback.(Mac needn't a driver) AK4118 receiver:AK4118 is the lowest jtter S/PDIF receiver at present. It has good compatibility which used to receive optical, coaxial, AES signals for D70s,support up to 24bit192kHz. CPLD:D70s applies the CPLD, focusing on the clock processing and signal optimization. CPLD combines with the accusilicon femto -second to bring a lower jitter effect, while coordinates processing of digital signal optimization to effectively improve signal quality and stability. Various input interfaces:D70s has various inputs: AES, USB, Bluetooth, Optical, Coaxial, IIS.Both USB and IIS support up to 21bit768kHz & DSD512 native. AES,Optical, Coaxial support up to 24bit192kHz. Bluetooth support 24bit96kHz LDAC transmission. D70s has full balanced XLR output and single ended RCA output.You can choose "XLR only", “RCA only" or“XLR+RCA”output to meet different usage in the multiple systems. DAC filter mode:D70s capable of providing 6 filter modes under PCM decoding, 2 filtermodes under DSD decoding, which, slightly adjust the details.(Note: it is not the same as EQ function.) Bluetooth DAC application:Connect the Bluetooth of your phone, tablet and notebook to D70s so that to become your Bluetooth DAC. DAC+ Pre amp application,Pure DAC application.  |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 7, 2024 11:53:53 GMT
After spending the last couple of weeks messing about listening to DACs, I had decided I was rather keen on the D70S. The fact I keep putting it back in suggests it's hitting a lot of the right notes for me, so I decided to see if I could do anything to it to make it better still. The obvious being the connections, which in all honesty, are pretty crap. Brass nasties everywhere. Taking the DAC apart to have a look at available space and real estate suggested WBT sockets would fit the spaces where the XLR sockets live, so I decided to to dispose of XLR all together as I'd never use it.   So, using my trusty desoldering station I whipped out the PCB mount XLR sockets and fitted some new WBT RCAs. They are hooked up in pseudo-balanced configuration. Then I realised there may also be room to swap the RCA sockets for the coax in, so I stole a currently unused WBT socket off my Avalon BT2 MM cart input and got to work. All put back together and playing... The sonic improvement on the whole is quite marvelous. Whether that's due to the sockets, the fact I have come off the XLR footprint for pseudo balanced, the PC-TRIPLE C solid core wiring now fitted, or the combination of all three, I don't know, but it's definitely higher Rez than before and the detail is vastly improved too. Overall, for the cost of three WBT sockets and an hour of my time, this has to be my most cost effective upgrade yet! Really pleased. |
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Post by misterc on Jun 7, 2024 13:36:09 GMT
If you dont use the BT ariel, remove that and the coax and find a cap to terminate off the reciptle another free upgrade there
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 7, 2024 13:58:21 GMT
If you dont use the BT ariel, remove that and the coax and find a cap to terminate off the reciptle another free upgrade there Any idea where to get the cap? |
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Post by misterc on Jun 7, 2024 14:04:38 GMT
Some of the chaps have used tin foil for now (or foil/kapton tape), otherwise Farnell or RS for the micro coax connectors should be a plug bung in there somewhere Oli
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