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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 17:16:10 GMT
Which brings me to another misconseption.......see thread.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 15, 2020 17:38:30 GMT
Now this ain't meant to piss you off ....heavens forbid your a grumpy enough cove as it is. But I have (only yesterday) acquired a mint 1st edition of said album...yes the rare banned one with the rape victim (panties at ankles) cover and this is the one to get.... I have many copies of this on vinyl SE, Remasters, etc etc But the original sounds best......imho. Ha, good man, I have that one too!!! On Vinyl ofc |
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Post by macca on Jan 15, 2020 17:51:27 GMT
Now this ain't meant to piss you off ....heavens forbid your a grumpy enough cove as it is. But I have (only yesterday) acquired a mint 1st edition of said album...yes the rare banned one with the rape victim (panties at ankles) cover and this is the one to get.... I have many copies of this on vinyl SE, Remasters, etc etc But the original sounds best......imho. Hah - I bought it the day it came out Use your Illusion 1 and 2 are great, Great recordings too, by Rock standards but they did spend a fortune at the best studios. Maybe not as iconic as the first album but if you like the first one they are essential. The CDs are fine sounding too but ofc go for the originals not remasters - if there are any remasters. Re phonostages - I think talking about accuracy with vinyl is pretty pointless. Like nuns discussing which blokes they would like to shag. It's the ultimate subjectivist format - just get it sounding how you like it. Although like Ollie I seem to prefer the more accurate phono stages. But really if you want to hear what the engineer put down as unadulterated as is possible then it's digital all the way. It amazes me that that is still controversial thing to say. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 15, 2020 18:22:46 GMT
Now this ain't meant to piss you off ....heavens forbid your a grumpy enough cove as it is. But I have (only yesterday) acquired a mint 1st edition of said album...yes the rare banned one with the rape victim (panties at ankles) cover and this is the one to get.... I have many copies of this on vinyl SE, Remasters, etc etc But the original sounds best......imho. Hah - I bought it the day it came out Use your Illusion 1 and 2 are great, Great recordings too, by Rock standards but they did spend a fortune at the best studios. Maybe not as iconic as the first album but if you like the first one they are essential. The CDs are fine sounding too but ofc go for the originals not remasters - if there are any remasters. Re phonostages - I think talking about accuracy with vinyl is pretty pointless. Like nuns discussing which blokes they would like to shag. It's the ultimate subjectivist format - just get it sounding how you like it. Although like Ollie I seem to prefer the more accurate phono stages. But really if you want to hear what the engineer put down as unadulterated as is possible then it's digital all the way. It amazes me that that is still controversial thing to say. That's kind of the point though isnt it, a format already a step behind in terms of accuracy, then hindered further by phonostages developed with a sound in mind. IMO, phonostages should be treated with the same regard as good amplifiers. As transparent as possible with as little sonic signature as possible. I know that the media can never be 100% accurate but when you buy a tuned or badly fettled phonostage, you are essentially listening to what the designer wants you to hear, rather than the band or studio engineer who made the bloody record! It riles me that folk don't think this way lol I still find that vinyl is a worthwhile media and see no reason to abandon it now |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 15, 2020 18:26:07 GMT
Just finished UYI2 "You could be mine" gave me goosebumps!!!!!! I thik ill be doing some more GNR listening. PS, maccaI dont think i was old enough to buy this record when it came out!!!! |
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Post by sq225917 on Jan 15, 2020 22:30:59 GMT
Jesus, I had a copy of the original robot rape cover AFD, how young are you Oli?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 15, 2020 23:17:50 GMT
Jesus, I had a copy of the original robot rape cover AFD, how young are you Oli? I'm 39 lol Born 1980 |
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Post by dsjr on Jan 16, 2020 10:25:29 GMT
A mere stripling  - and very young for this hobby too as all the bods I see are my age (60's) and older as the one's I've seen recently have nice big pension payouts or cashed investments to spend on stereo gear - lucky people... |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 16, 2020 10:27:39 GMT
A mere stripling - and very young for this hobby too as all the bods I see are my age (60's) and older. Yes, i have had this said to me many times lol |
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Post by macca on Jan 16, 2020 12:37:08 GMT
But all the people who are 60 and older were into hi-fi when they were 39. And probably when they were 19. They didn't buy their first hi-fi equipment the day they turned 60.
You don't get many youngsters on the forums, or at shows and meets because they've got better things to do with their time at that age.
30 years ago I went to a show and most of the attendees were over 60. Last year I went to one and the same was true. But they aren't the same over 60s as thirty years ago! Thirty years ago the new crop of over 60s were only in their 30s!
The 'hobby is dying' thing should be in the 'Misconceptions' thread I think.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 12:43:11 GMT
But all the people who are 60 and older were into hi-fi when they were 39. And probably when they were 19. They didn't buy their first hi-fi equipment the day they turned 60. You don't get many youngsters on the forums, or at shows and meets because they've got better things to do with their time at that age. 30 years ago I went to a show and most of the attendees were over 60. Last year I went to one and the same was true. But they aren't the same over 60s as thirty years ago! Thirty years ago the new crop of over 60s were only in their 30s! The 'hobby is dying' thing should be in the 'Misconceptions' thread I think. Yup. Proper Hi-Fi has never been a mainstream interest. Those I know who are interested, seem just as interested as ever and younger members of their families are too, to an extent. My daughter is very fussy about her sounds and likes big vintage speakers. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 16, 2020 13:13:17 GMT
Its certainly not dying from my experience. And believe it or not, there are a couple of us younger guys on forums lol
I suspect a lot of the problem is its usually only the older generation that have enough money and time to invest in significant systems and meet ups, as you say, and thus us young'uns put up with what we've got until we can afford them.
Thankfully, I haven't had to wait!
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Post by dsjr on Jan 16, 2020 13:53:50 GMT
Chaps, in the Uk at any rate, HiFi enthusiasm IS dying a slow painful death! Sure, there's a few stores hanging on to the remaining gear-heads, who mostly buy Naim related stuff it seems, but I do still have friends in the industry who travel round the country and the picture is a bleak one sadly.
The one chain holding out is Richer and my gawd, you can find some serious bargains there. Even twenty five years ago, you'd see Richer stores bustling with customers while the Audio T up the road was empty most of the time (Audio T have 'reportedly' been on the brink for years now and recently closed a couple more stores I was told yesterday).
In a country of sixty plus million (?), how many people actually post on audio forums regularly - a few dozen? - and how many of them actually go into stores and buy new gear from them? Even PFM and AOS with large memberships, seemed to have a just small core of people posting most of it, but maybe that's changed now. Even ASR, which is a very busy place, seems to have a hard core of regular posters chatting away...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 14:05:21 GMT
Yup it's dying.......
And it doesn't take a genius to figure why.
DIGITALMONGAROONIES.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 16, 2020 14:15:59 GMT
Chaps, in the Uk at any rate, HiFi enthusiasm IS dying a slow painful death! Sure, there's a few stores hanging on to the remaining gear-heads, who mostly buy Naim related stuff it seems, but I do still have friends in the industry who travel round the country and the picture is a bleak one sadly. The one chain holding out is Richer and my gawd, you can find some serious bargains there. Even twenty five years ago, you'd see Richer stores bustling with customers while the Audio T up the road was empty most of the time (Audio T have 'reportedly' been on the brink for years now and recently closed a couple more stores I was told yesterday). In a country of sixty plus million (?), how many people actually post on audio forums regularly - a few dozen? - and how many of them actually go into stores and buy new gear from them? Even PFM and AOS with large memberships, seemed to have a just small core of people posting most of it, but maybe that's changed now. Even ASR, which is a very busy place, seems to have a hard core of regular posters chatting away... To be honest, the whole retail sector is dying!! It's not solely hifi stores. However, with the consistent rise in streaming, Vinyl and cassette (believe it or not) reaching an higher total than any other point in history, it suggests that music is just as important now as it ever was, if not more so. Sure, there is a lot of phone listeners, sonos and all that cack, but some of those will make the jump between listener to HiFi junkie. |
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Post by macca on Jan 16, 2020 14:21:46 GMT
Chaps, in the Uk at any rate, HiFi enthusiasm IS dying a slow painful death! Sure, there's a few stores hanging on to the remaining gear-heads, who mostly buy Naim related stuff it seems, but I do still have friends in the industry who travel round the country and the picture is a bleak one sadly. The one chain holding out is Richer and my gawd, you can find some serious bargains there. Even twenty five years ago, you'd see Richer stores bustling with customers while the Audio T up the road was empty most of the time (Audio T have 'reportedly' been on the brink for years now and recently closed a couple more stores I was told yesterday). In a country of sixty plus million (?), how many people actually post on audio forums regularly - a few dozen? - and how many of them actually go into stores and buy new gear from them? Even PFM and AOS with large memberships, seemed to have a just small core of people posting most of it, but maybe that's changed now. Even ASR, which is a very busy place, seems to have a hard core of regular posters chatting away... When I first got into this in 1986 there were articles and letters in the mags saying exactly the same thing. And yet here we are over three decades on, there's still an industry, there's still a hobby.
The shops are vanishing, that is true but shops of all descriptions are vanishing. The 'High Street' is all but over. You can't judge the vitality of a hobby just by looking at the number of retail outlets. I buy a fair bit of hi-fi but haven't bought anything in a high street dealers in over a decade.
And there might only be a few hundred regular posters on the UK forums, that's true, but the other night I went on AoS and there was 1600 users and 40 members viewing the forum when I logged on. and AoS is not a big hifi forum by global standards. Active posters are like one percent or less of the total people who are reading the hi-fi sites.
Then add all the people who are into hi-fi but never go anywhere near the forums (sensible folk!). I didn't even realize that there was such a thing as hi-fi forums until 2009.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 14:21:47 GMT
Aye......Rip Away.
And tell us why the music industry is dead.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 14:23:46 GMT
Rather have a 2 pence rip than buy an album / cd for a fiver.
Go fukin figure......
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Post by macca on Jan 16, 2020 14:24:36 GMT
Aye......Rip Away. And tell us why the music industry is dead. There's a clear correlation between music sales and the general quality of the music being made. Both peaked in the 1970s.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 14:28:29 GMT
1970s
Superb......
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 16:06:57 GMT
There in lies the issues for many prospective buyers of audio equipment, limited choice of music the 70's, these days grandad rock and disco do not cut the mustard when the dealers play their selection of demonstration music.
Would also offer that many music listeners today are more than happy with airpods and a car radio, downloading music everyone hour.
Convenience trumps sad old farts with ten high wobbly racks, records (really?) running around the whole outside of the rooms, why?
Times are changing and with the exception of one or two dealers they (the ones that offer the equipment are not)
Thankfully I was not born in the 60,70's or 80's so nostalgia does not play a part for me in my selection of audio replay.
Where as for a few time warp stuck individuals it obviously does.
I recognize vinyl does sound good if you have all the correct assembled front end, but all that hassle for 20 minutes, life is way to short for that kind of payback!
Maybe if I was 60+, retired own man room, understanding plastic surgery free 45 year wealthy nymphomaniac, respectable wheels and had the time to fully appreciate having a rock dragged around a piece of plastic then maybe my attitude would be different
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Post by dsjr on Jan 16, 2020 16:32:50 GMT
I do understand where you're coming from macca - I mean, I've been involved with the industry since 1973 and saw the first collapse in 1975-76 when VAT shot up. There was another fall off starting around 1980 although we Linn/Naim/Rega dealers were largely immune from that one. CD and 'digital' helped hugely delay the inevitable in the late 80's to mid 90's (sorry jammy, but it's true), but now it's streaming and physical audio-video sources are more niche than ever and I'm going to say most 'new' vinyl is bought by collectors or trendy hipster types who don't seem to play it, at least on anything very good!
Figures shouldn't lie and I'm sorry to say that apart from a few select audio dealers up and down the UK (some are now very much 'audio salons'), the HiFi retail industry here has collapsed, with many stores closing either due to not being viable, or owners retiring and nobody to take them over. it really is that bad, but without being rude, how many of 'us' actually BUY from HiFi stores these days? Peeps like me can talk about it till the cows come home - and beyond - but actually buying high end NEW gear from dealers rather than used stuff, of which there has been something of a glut? Practically none of my local dealer's customers look in on forums and the few I've spoken to couldn't afford a decent stereo until they retired, but they've gone with Naim quite often as this was the lusted-after brand thirty odd years ago that they couldn't afford.. I'm sure Linn and Absolute Sounds dealers could say much the same..
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Post by macca on Jan 16, 2020 16:53:06 GMT
I suspect the hi-fi retail industry is fine, it's just all on line now.
I could set up as a retailer in my house, store the stock in a bedroom, flog it on the internet. No rent, no rates, no insurance, no utility bills, how can the bloke with a shop where rent and rates alone are £350K a year possibly compete with me?
My punters try the goods in the comfort of their own home, send them back if it isn't what they want. They want advice or chit-chat - we can do that on the 'phone, or by e-mail or skype.
The high street dealer model isn't adding any value compared to what I'm doing but has to charge 25% more - at least - to make the same profit.
Then you've got 50 years worth of used 'modern' hi-fi for sale on ebay, on the forums etc. Why pay 20% VAT on a new item when something just as good can be had without that tax? 30 years ago there was only 20 years worth of modern hi-fi out there and no effective means of selling it except a small ad in the local paper.
Dealers used to be the only game in town if you wanted to go beyond entry level Comet/Laskey's stuff, but no longer. That's why they are all closing down.
I think there's just as many people into hi-fi as there ever was - although as Geoff says it was always a niche hobby - they just are not going into shops and paying top whack plus VAT for new products.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 16, 2020 18:00:54 GMT
Right. Now try to collect some well known sellable agencies (i suspect difficult without credit history) and see how much living without hassle you could make? Knowing you, I'd suspect you'd make a go of it but it ain't easy...
I do think you're wrong about as many people into audio as their used to be. Maybe 1950's and early 60's, but not 70's and 80's, but obviously I can't prove it.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 16, 2020 21:46:11 GMT
Well, on a slightly different topic, it seems my PMAT1010 is due in for a service (code word for upgrades lol)
Angus and i have been mooting a few ideas to each other recently about tonearm wire. As most of you know, i am a huge believer in the quality of the opper and connections i use in my system and Angus and i have FINALLY managed to identify a possible PC-OCC wire, of small enough gauge to be used in the tonearm itself.
I have to say, i am incredibly excited by this and seeing as the arm is off to get some new tasty bearings (7 instead of 6 in the assembly) Which are only available from one place in Japan. How Angus makes these connections is beyond me but he actually got a Japanese contact recently and asked him to buy them and post them over.
They are here, and they are going in my tonearm. Awesome.
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Post by electronumpty on Jan 16, 2020 22:03:17 GMT
Ha, glad to see you still have an appetite for upgrading your vinyl rig!!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 16, 2020 22:31:15 GMT
Ha, glad to see you still have an appetite for upgrading your vinyl rig!! There is a bit more to be done with this arm, and I am sure we will eek out as much as possible |
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Post by karma67 on Jan 16, 2020 22:45:30 GMT
Well, on a slightly different topic, it seems my PMAT1010 is due in for a service (code word for upgrades lol) Angus and i have been mooting a few ideas to each other recently about tonearm wire. As most of you know, i am a huge believer in the quality of the opper and connections i use in my system and Angus and i have FINALLY managed to identify a possible PC-OCC wire, of small enough gauge to be used in the tonearm itself. I have to say, i am incredibly excited by this and seeing as the arm is off to get some new tasty bearings (7 instead of 6 in the assembly) Which are only available from one place in Japan. How Angus makes these connections is beyond me but he actually got a Japanese contact recently and asked him to buy them and post them over. They are here, and they are going in my tonearm. Awesome. happy days!!! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 17, 2020 0:39:25 GMT
Well, on a slightly different topic, it seems my PMAT1010 is due in for a service (code word for upgrades lol) Angus and i have been mooting a few ideas to each other recently about tonearm wire. As most of you know, i am a huge believer in the quality of the opper and connections i use in my system and Angus and i have FINALLY managed to identify a possible PC-OCC wire, of small enough gauge to be used in the tonearm itself. I have to say, i am incredibly excited by this and seeing as the arm is off to get some new tasty bearings (7 instead of 6 in the assembly) Which are only available from one place in Japan. How Angus makes these connections is beyond me but he actually got a Japanese contact recently and asked him to buy them and post them over. They are here, and they are going in my tonearm. Awesome. happy days!!! Absolutely! As you know, this has been a long time coming so I am really eager to get this done. Hopefully, the result is as expected and I will let you know what I think when it's done 🙂 |
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Post by karma67 on Jan 17, 2020 7:44:50 GMT
Absolutely! As you know, this has been a long time coming so I am really eager to get this done. Hopefully, the result is as expected and I will let you know what I think when it's done 🙂 cheers, im waiting on a date from angus to visit,id like him to give my tt bearings the once over whilst im doing the plinth and its still in bits. hopefully i can hear the arm as well .
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- and very young for this hobby too as all the bods I see are my age (60's) and older as the one's I've seen recently have nice big pension payouts or cashed investments to spend on stereo gear - lucky people...
