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Post by karma67 on Dec 8, 2019 19:20:09 GMT
have you heard the one with the bearing mod? when you say available now,do you mean its ready? I believe Angus has done the bearing mod on his arm and one he sold last weekend but no, I haven't heard it yet. I don't need to, I just want it lol me too! lol |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2019 19:21:46 GMT
I believe Angus has done the bearing mod on his arm and one he sold last weekend but no, I haven't heard it yet. I don't need to, I just want it lol me too! lol He's gonna be busy again I think lol |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 15, 2019 19:24:06 GMT
The last time Angus visited, he brought with him two different vinyl pressings of Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms.
One was a MoFi version and the other was an 180g remaster. I have the original pressing (As does Angus) and I had a quite compressed version of the Album form a CD rip in FLAC
Our little media experiment yielded a strange result. Obviously the MoFi excelled and sounded rather splendid but it was the heavily compressed digital file that threw up the biggest challenge to it, rather than the Remastered Vinyl.
This eventually led me to believe that Vinyl could well be on the way out of my house, as we have previously discussed.
I had an incling that should I be able to dig out a HiRes digital version of the album, it would close the gap on the MoFi and possibly overtake it.
Today, I found a HiRez version.
Now, I know there is a lot of people that will say there shouldn't be any difference between the two digital versions but I would have to strongly disagree. However, I'm not here for that today. I want to talk about the HiRes version vs my memory of the MoFi.
One of the distinguishing factors that has stayed with me about that pressing was the space between instruments and the way the vocals and cymbals seemed to float, suspended in free space above the speakers.
This is ultimately where the cdrip failed. It didn't have that ability.
Another aspect was the dynamism and energy that seemed to be generated by the MoFi. Again, the CD rip just didn't have the energy to drive in the same way.
SO, how did the HiRes do?
Well, in some ways it manages to almost reproduce the MoFi, with a few caveats.
First, I haven't got it here for direct comparison so I am judging from memory, but it did leave a good imprint on me.
The HiRes delivers on the floating aspect, in spades. Its an uncanny likeness. The vocals are also uncannily similar in the way they hang just above the speaker, delivering a realisticly sized soundstage. It's great tbf.
However, that energy and power of the dynamics of the vinyl aren't quite there. It's close, but there are times the bass hit the chest and it isn't quite as impactful.
That said, I do think the HiRes extends past the MoFi in detail. It's attention grabbing and I am listening very intently to all the little nuances and artifacts that are masked by lesser pressings or rips.
All in all, this has been a great little experiment. Apart from lacking a bit of meat on the bone, as most digital does, the HiRes version was worth searching for and I managed to get it for free.
I am going to be upping the performance of the Vinyl in 2020, with upgrades to the PMAT1010 and the SP10 MK2. I am also going to build two phonostages, a BigBottle and possibly a Paradise (if the next group buy happens)
I will own them all to allow me to take the time needed to compare them properly.
For me, this will be a clash I'm calling "Titans of DIY Phonostages"
These three represent the best I have heard (BigBottle & Avalon) and the best in other people's opinion (Paradise) which I haven't heard.
I can't wait.
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Post by dsjr on Dec 15, 2019 19:52:21 GMT
How can a rip from the CD be 'compressed?' Sorry, I'm missing something again.. I have BIA on original CD and vinyl and from memory, they sounded very similar apart from one having channels reversed... The MoFi vinyls of old had 'things' done to them not altogether authorised by the original artists and producer. My gold CD of Crime of the Century' sounded dead and gutless when I last played it, but the vanilla A&M CD had more 'life and vitality' I remember, albeit possibly a touch 'dirty' on players from the time. I believe Donald Dagan had something to say about a particular Steely Dan 'remastering' on vinyl. the people who did it said they'd spiced up the kick drum where DF retorted that he and the producer had spent ages getting the kick sound from the stock vinyl cuts and the vinyl remastering people (MoFo, I'm not sure) had messed it up... My MoFi DSotM came from a different master tape I understand and when my ears were very good some decades ago, I remember hearing a watch ticking in the background in the introductory heartbeat sound that I don't remember being there on any of the EMI releases, vinyl or digital. Just enjoy the bloody music and get the hell off this gear merry-go-round where you'll NEVER achieve audio nirvana for very long  (I'm really getting too old and cynical now, ain't I!) |
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Post by antonio on Dec 16, 2019 6:00:19 GMT
Can you please remind me which dac you are using Oli.
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Post by macca on Dec 16, 2019 8:23:39 GMT
This is a DDD recording made on the old Sony digital recorder so there is nothing on the original recording above 22.1 KHz. No 'hi rez' version is possible. A look at the Dynamic Range Database dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=brothers+in+arms shows that all versions of the CD have excellent DR. Only the SACD - risibly - is notably poorer So I don't know where the compressed version came from unless it was the SACD, and even that is not so bad compared to some other recordings. Notice the DR figures for the vinyl are lower, also be aware that DR figures for vinyl are artificially inflated, it is hard to get the true DR of the vinyl because of the noise problems with vinyl. So the vinyl version is actually has a lot less DR. I've got an original pressing and the original CD, both a re good, the CD is subjectively better - and has the full length version of the songs. The 'meat on the bones' with the vinyl is artificially induced acoustic reverb. Move your turntable into a different room from the speakers and listen again, it will sound pretty much identical to the CD. Which is identical to the master 'tape'. I can add reverb with an effects box or programme if I wanted to, costs a couple of quid. No need for an expensive TT. phonostage and cartridge in order to do that. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2019 10:20:51 GMT
How can a rip from the CD be 'compressed?' Sorry, I'm missing something again.. I have BIA on original CD and vinyl and from memory, they sounded very similar apart from one having channels reversed... The MoFi vinyls of old had 'things' done to them not altogether authorised by the original artists and producer. My gold CD of Crime of the Century' sounded dead and gutless when I last played it, but the vanilla A&M CD had more 'life and vitality' I remember, albeit possibly a touch 'dirty' on players from the time. I believe Donald Dagan had something to say about a particular Steely Dan 'remastering' on vinyl. the people who did it said they'd spiced up the kick drum where DF retorted that he and the producer had spent ages getting the kick sound from the stock vinyl cuts and the vinyl remastering people (MoFo, I'm not sure) had messed it up... My MoFi DSotM came from a different master tape I understand and when my ears were very good some decades ago, I remember hearing a watch ticking in the background in the introductory heartbeat sound that I don't remember being there on any of the EMI releases, vinyl or digital. Just enjoy the bloody music and get the hell off this gear merry-go-round where you'll NEVER achieve audio nirvana for very long (I'm really getting too old and cynical now, ain't I!) Hi Dave, Right, the level of compression is variable In FLAC, when you rip it via DB poweramp and EAC. I always use the setting of "no compression" and end up with rather large file sizes compared to the "recommended" settings. I'm not saying the CD was compressed. Secondly, I don't plan on making any wholesale changes to the system, the phonostage bits have been planned for some time. I like trying gear and I like building stuff so it's unlikely I'll ever stop entirely. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2019 10:22:30 GMT
Can you please remind me which dac you are using Oli. Antonio, I am using the PecanPi currently. It's a cracking unit. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2019 10:24:56 GMT
This is a DDD recording made on the old Sony digital recorder so there is nothing on the original recording above 22.1 KHz. No 'hi rez' version is possible. A look at the Dynamic Range Database dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=brothers+in+arms shows that all versions of the CD have excellent DR. Only the SACD - risibly - is notably poorer So I don't know where the compressed version came from unless it was the SACD, and even that is not so bad compared to some other recordings. Notice the DR figures for the vinyl are lower, also be aware that DR figures for vinyl are artificially inflated, it is hard to get the true DR of the vinyl because of the noise problems with vinyl. So the vinyl version is actually has a lot less DR. I've got an original pressing and the original CD, both a re good, the CD is subjectively better - and has the full length version of the songs. The 'meat on the bones' with the vinyl is artificially induced acoustic reverb. Move your turntable into a different room from the speakers and listen again, it will sound pretty much identical to the CD. Which is identical to the master 'tape'. I can add reverb with an effects box or programme if I wanted to, costs a couple of quid. No need for an expensive TT. phonostage and cartridge in order to do that. Macca, The way I found the album was via this link forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/dire-straits-brothers-in-arms-on-hdtracks.281077/I'm not sure how they have managed to make it 24/96 because like you say, it was a DDD recording and you are spot on about the 22.1 kHz. However, it's called a HiRez file so that's what I've called it. You could be right about the TT thing but it's a great feature lol |
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Post by dsjr on Dec 16, 2019 11:41:10 GMT
I know you're aware but digital file compression isn't the same as analogue audio compression. I still enjoy messing with turntables and stuff, sometimes for a living, so I can't talk! Well maybe I can, as it takes one to know one? |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2019 11:55:46 GMT
I know you're aware but digital file compression isn't the same as analogue audio compression. I still enjoy messing with turntables and stuff, sometimes for a living, so I can't talk! Well maybe I can, as it takes one to know one? Lol, yes you're as bad as me, just less drastic! |
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Post by macca on Dec 16, 2019 13:04:35 GMT
HD Tracks were notorious for releasing supposed hi-rez albums that were nothing of the sort but they sorted that some time back now due to all the complaints. I see the thread you lined to on SHF is from many years back.
As with any differences heard between 'hi rez' and 'normal rez' the audible differences are going to be down to using a different master, I see on SHF they theorise that it must be from the vinyl master as it only has the shortened version of the songs. The vinyl master will have mono bass below 100Hz and is likely to have a little more (analogue) compression too. So that would account for it. Technically it will be further from the studio master even if it is subjectively preferred.
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2019 13:34:56 GMT
HD Tracks were notorious for releasing supposed hi-rez albums that were nothing of the sort but they sorted that some time back now due to all the complaints. I see the thread you lined to on SHF is from many years back. As with any differences heard between 'hi rez' and 'normal rez' the audible differences are going to be down to using a different master, I see on SHF they theorise that it must be from the vinyl master as it only has the shortened version of the songs. The vinyl master will have mono bass below 100Hz and is likely to have a little more (analogue) compression too. So that would account for it. Technically it will be further from the studio master even if it is subjectively preferred. I'm going to have to check which version I have aren't I, before I continue. bloody digital and it variance of mixes lol |
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Post by macca on Dec 16, 2019 14:54:46 GMT
Lol, there seems to be at least 4 different masterings available on vinyl now too.
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2019 15:07:42 GMT
Lol, there seems to be at least 4 different masterings available on vinyl now too. What a ball ache!!! |
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Post by macca on Dec 16, 2019 18:52:43 GMT
Just get the first one. That's the album IMO, not all the later re-workings.
'This is what we could have made it sound like. It's no better but it's a bit different.'
I don't care.
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2019 18:55:46 GMT
Just get the first one. That's the album IMO, not all the later re-workings. 'This is what we could have made it sound like. It's no better but it's a bit different.' I don't care. I do have the first CD version of the album. I will have to dig it out. |
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Post by macca on Dec 16, 2019 19:06:04 GMT
According to the DR Database that's the one with the highest DR. Mine's a re-master  Got the first UK pressing on vinyl though. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2019 19:07:39 GMT
According to the DR Database that's the one with the highest DR. Mine's a re-master Got the first UK pressing on vinyl though. Awesome, I will have a look for it, although I may have left the Disc at Alans.......bugger |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 18, 2019 0:27:52 GMT
With the Simaudio off to pastures new, I spent tonight gathering the last few bits I need to rebuild a BigBottle phonostage.
For vales, I plumped for 2x Philips PCC88s and a GE ECC83
I've not had any of these before so I thought I'd give them a go. £100 for all three, which considering they are NOS and still sealed from a legitimate source, isn't bad at all. In contrast, 2x Telefunkens in the PCC88 position were £244!!! And 1x ECC83 wasn't far off that again. Madness.
Just too rich atm.
Caps were all that I needed for the board so they are all Vishay or Kemet as usual.
The chassis is just a plain Jane. Nothing fancy this time. I won't be selling this BigBottle, even if it just sits on a shelf. I'd like to always have one, so that's what I'll do.
I'll post a pic of the chassis tomorrow. It has buttons on the front, so I'll get a piece of acrylic made to replace the front panel. Simple.
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 18, 2019 10:07:42 GMT
Settled on this casework  As I said, that fron panel will be changed for a black acrylic one. Just plain with a power button in the usual roundel styleee Now we wait. |
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Post by electronumpty on Dec 18, 2019 11:31:17 GMT
Nice case , are making the mk2 or original bb stage?
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Post by firebottle on Dec 18, 2019 11:47:16 GMT
The mk2, with the latest component tweaks it is the best of the lot. Oli will eulegise shortly I'm sure.
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 18, 2019 12:22:32 GMT
Nice case , are making the mk2 or original bb stage? As Alan said, it'll be one of the "tester" MK2 versions. I send about 5 of them out and there are a couple of bits missing from the PCB and a couple of bits that are no longer required. I deemed it to be more "challenging" than i wanted it to be and recalled the PCBs. Should the BB fare well against the others, i will try and find someone who is willing to redesign the PCB. It's not easy though as it would have to be gratis as the BB project is a non profit one. Only right as i own no part of the design. I am currently listening to the MK2 Alan has built and i have to say, the refinements he has done to this version are making a difference. I am a bit reluctant to "eulogise" just yet as i want to build one out of the bits i use like Vishay capacitors etc. However, i don't believe i have heard a better valve phonostage, certainly not in my system anyway. Big thing to mention is that this is the ONLY valve phonostage that has been in this system as it now stands lol. It's only fair to say that the surrounding gear is going to make a huge difference to anything i demoed, prior to having this rig. I have a plan, and that is to compare the "TITANS OF DIY PHONOSTAGES" (in bold for drama lol) and this is only 1 of the three that will be here eventually. I already taking tips of SQ for the paradise build and i know the Avalon is close to it's final form. It should be very interesting to see how the ultra budget friendly BB does against the mighty Paradise and then there is the unknown Avalon. I love it! |
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Post by antonio on Dec 18, 2019 13:06:38 GMT
What if it's not better than the Moon you've just sold?  |
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Post by electronumpty on Dec 18, 2019 13:08:45 GMT
Nice case , are making the mk2 or original bb stage? As Alan said, it'll be one of the "tester" MK2 versions. I send about 5 of them out and there are a couple of bits missing from the PCB and a couple of bits that are no longer required. I deemed it to be more "challenging" than i wanted it to be and recalled the PCBs. Should the BB fare well against the others, i will try and find someone who is willing to redesign the PCB. It's not easy though as it would have to be gratis as the BB project is a non profit one. Only right as i own no part of the design. I am currently listening to the MK2 Alan has built and i have to say, the refinements he has done to this version are making a difference. I am a bit reluctant to "eulogise" just yet as i want to build one out of the bits i use like Vishay capacitors etc. However, i don't believe i have heard a better valve phonostage, certainly not in my system anyway. Big thing to mention is that this is the ONLY valve phonostage that has been in this system as it now stands lol. It's only fair to say that the surrounding gear is going to make a huge difference to anything i demoed, prior to having this rig. I have a plan, and that is to compare the "TITANS OF DIY PHONOSTAGES" (in bold for drama lol) and this is only 1 of the three that will be here eventually. I already taking tips of SQ for the paradise build and i know the Avalon is close to it's final form. It should be very interesting to see how the ultra budget friendly BB does against the mighty Paradise and then there is the unknown Avalon. I love it! That sounds great! Plenty for you to be thinking about then, the Avalon sounds interesting. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 18, 2019 13:21:09 GMT
What if it's not better than the Moon you've just sold? Haha, well then I will be a proper twat, won't I! No, I hatched this plan a few weeks back, not knowing a Paradise build may be possible. Once I knew it was highly likely I could get some PCBs, I felt it was time to make the move. The Simaudio is a stonking phonostage. It's more a case of financing the new build that led to me selling it, rather than anything performance related. I haven't got a single complaint about the SIM. If one comes up in the future, I'd have no probs recommending it. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 18, 2019 13:24:47 GMT
As Alan said, it'll be one of the "tester" MK2 versions. I send about 5 of them out and there are a couple of bits missing from the PCB and a couple of bits that are no longer required. I deemed it to be more "challenging" than i wanted it to be and recalled the PCBs. Should the BB fare well against the others, i will try and find someone who is willing to redesign the PCB. It's not easy though as it would have to be gratis as the BB project is a non profit one. Only right as i own no part of the design. I am currently listening to the MK2 Alan has built and i have to say, the refinements he has done to this version are making a difference. I am a bit reluctant to "eulogise" just yet as i want to build one out of the bits i use like Vishay capacitors etc. However, i don't believe i have heard a better valve phonostage, certainly not in my system anyway. Big thing to mention is that this is the ONLY valve phonostage that has been in this system as it now stands lol. It's only fair to say that the surrounding gear is going to make a huge difference to anything i demoed, prior to having this rig. I have a plan, and that is to compare the "TITANS OF DIY PHONOSTAGES" (in bold for drama lol) and this is only 1 of the three that will be here eventually. I already taking tips of SQ for the paradise build and i know the Avalon is close to it's final form. It should be very interesting to see how the ultra budget friendly BB does against the mighty Paradise and then there is the unknown Avalon. I love it! That sounds great! Plenty for you to be thinking about then, the Avalon sounds interesting. It certainly is. Angus has gone to town on the design. Wide bandwidth which has ruler flat response. He's got superb SNR, although I can't remember what the numbers were. It's choc full of high quality (not expensive) parts and he's designed the layout of the PCB himself. Designed to optimum performance for eash bit. It's actually quite hard to overemphasise how thorough he has been. From the little I heard, I am actually expecting the Avalon to be the one to watch. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 14, 2020 16:50:17 GMT
@evo
SIMaudio LP5.3rs - Lacks any artifice or grain and replay is neutral and transparent. I'm a big fan of this one. It'll be here a while.
Firebottle Vivant - Excellent transparency, lots of Air and space. Still a fave of mine.
Bigbottle - Same designer, same 'feel' but with more weight and a more dynamic delivery. I'm bias though lol
Bigbottle MK2 - Current version. This phonostage has trumped everything else on this list.
Phonomac's Avalon - Reference level RIAA response, No compromise on components and built to exacting standards. It's reference level.
Valve Wizard MM - Small Soundstage, wonderfully timbred mids and loads of bass extension. I liked it but not in the same class.
Valab LCR MK2 - For the money, it's hard to criticise but I will. The RIAA response is audibly off (measured to confirm) just can't forgive that.
Ray Samuels Nighthawk - Sounded like Eddie Hall was sat on it. Flat, heavy and lacked dynamics.
Trilogy 907 - Fast, detailed, expansive and far too expensive. The SIMaudio is better to my ears and it's £1000 less.
Aqvox - Bit bass light but excellent in all other ways. Best SS phonostage I'd heard until recently.
Firebottle OTP1, 2 & 3 - Budget Phonostages that sound like they should cost more. The '3' Is the best, and is easily a bargain.
Original NVA Phono 2 x 2PSUs - Quite enchanting at times, musical and spacious sound. Highly susceptible to noise and interference from electronic devices. RIAA was off (measured to confirm)
Original NVA Phono 3 x BBPSU - Too much bass. Overpowered the sound. Preferred the NVA2. Also susceptible to Interference.
Music First Reference - Yup, this one is epic. Just sweet and neutral with a hint of soul. The best I'd heard. Full stop.
LDA Jfet - Imagine the above phonostage made to be affordable. It's 90% of what you get from the MFA
Vincent PHO-700 - Superb Valve jobbie. Neutral, soulful and highly addictive.
Audio Detail NV-06 - Absolutely dire. sounded like id filled my ears with mud.
Croft 25 - A glenn Croft Phonostage, which sounds like a Glenn Croft Phonostage. Awesome timbral qualities but HF is a little subdued. Quite dark sounding but I liked it.
Arkless 651p - T'was OK.
EAR 834p - Flat and heavy sounding. Worst of the Valve Phonostage we tried at Penkridge.
Jolida JD 9II - This could possibly nudge it's way into most systems. A superb phonostage that has it all, IF you swap a couple of Caps and the Opamps. Can sound a bit 'shiny' if you don't.
Project Phonobox - Utter shite.
VAS Phonostage - Blew my mind that valves could be so good. Shine wore off after an extended listen. Not as transparent as I like. Still superb though
Russell technologies - Had a lot of good qualities but ultimately had a bit of edginess and could sound quite shrill on some material.
Digna - Sounded a little odd. Has all the good stuff but it didn't seem to mesh. A bit like Silver Plated Cable. Dunno how better to describe it.
Trichord Dino - Dull as ditchwater. No soundstage width.
Clones PA1 - Meh
Tron Convergence - Wonderful imaging, fluid sound, like syrup flowing from the speakers but soundstage too narrow and far too heavy/dark. No life or energy.
Lounge Audio LCR - If you want a phonostage that doesn't do what a phonostage should, then look no further! Honestly, the WORST designed of any phonostage I have ever heard. Even the Project Phonobox tried to get the RIAA curve close. POOR.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 14, 2020 17:04:43 GMT
All the ones you don't like seem to be 'dark' sounding or have too much bass, which worries me as it possibly seems to be a trend. I know the Dino a bit and liked it with some cartridges although price on some of these things can be outrageous when you cost out what's inside.
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(I'm really getting too old and cynical now, ain't I!)
Got the first UK pressing on vinyl though. 
