Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 17, 2019 23:54:59 GMT
If there is anywhere I’m likely to experiment, it’s with cartridges. I don’t have much experience as I’m an intermittent vinyl user and I tend to go back to the cartridges I know that I like: AT-OC9, AT-32e, AT-33, DL-103R, Asaka/Karma.
The Mayware I bought lately, I’m still getting to know, but it’s got me thinking about trying more varied carts. I’m just not sure what to try. MMs have never appealed but maybe I just need to hear better ones? The (Moving Iron) Cartridge Man Music Maker has always intrigued me, as has the original Garrott P77.
Anyone else got some carts they’d recommend? Or any they are curious about?
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Post by macca on Apr 18, 2019 6:40:47 GMT
I'd recommend
Nagaoka MP300 for MI - all the nags are good and I've had most of them but the 30/300 is the sweet spot. Not cheap and the styli don't last long so expensive to run.
Denon DL-S1 for MC - best sound from vinyl I've heard, ticks all the boxes and isn't silly money (or wasn't, I'm not sure they still make them).
Always fancied an AT-OC9, never got round to it.
But I'd always say spend the money on the deck, arm and phono stage before upgrading the cartridge. The cartridge is not the choke point. Possibly controversial but that's been my experience. A budget cart on a top quality deck through a top quality stage will always be better than the fanciest cart on an average deck with average stage.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 18, 2019 7:20:24 GMT
I’ve probbaly judged Nagaokas too harshly based solely on the MP11 Boron which sounded weedy on al LP12/Ittok. Might’ve been a case of not suiting the arm or maybe needing more fine tuning.
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Post by macca on Apr 18, 2019 7:24:07 GMT
Not sure about the MP11 as it is the only Nag I've not had a go on, but the next one up, the MP15, is very 'full bodied'. I hate carts that are thin and scratchy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 7:30:22 GMT
Had a couple of Nagaokas, can't remember which models though. In fact I can't even recall the sound, the only thing I do recall is that they were unmemorable.
Deccas apart, if I wanted a non-MC, I'd opt for one of the classic vintage ADC's. Getting hard to find now though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 13:37:16 GMT
Well for a start I'd avoid any cartridge labelled "Denon" they just don't work for me.
Deccas too
I like Ortofons that are higher up the chain and Audio technica carts of similar pedigree. .
Lyra's are good too.
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Post by karma67 on Apr 18, 2019 17:42:03 GMT
the only denon ive owned is a 103SA,a different beast to the standard 103 and 103R,it ultimately lost out in detail to the audio technica ART-7 which i currently use.ive done the decca thing and im glad i did but i wouldn't go there again.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 18, 2019 18:12:05 GMT
ART-7 must be a helluva cart. I don’t ah e enough records to justify one, but if a used one appeared below market value, I’d probs have a go.
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Post by sq225917 on Apr 18, 2019 19:53:35 GMT
High end lyra for me if I was shopping, though I'll probs just get the Benz retipped and wound.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 19:11:15 GMT
ART-7 must be a helluva cart. I don’t ah e enough records to justify one, but if a used one appeared below market value, I’d probs have a go. The Art 7 is a cracker. If a new cart under £1k is what you're after I'd recommend it. That said, I'd recommend a used Kontrapunkt B first as I prefered it when I had the ART7 on home trial. Not much in it tbh but as I've stated, Ortofons of that calibre do it for me. Then there's the option of getting it modded to 90% of the ORTOFON VIENNA!!! Jamie has heard that cartridge and will vouch for its utter brilliance.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 19:16:07 GMT
the only denon ive owned is a 103SA,a different beast to the standard 103 and 103R,it ultimately lost out in detail to the audio technica ART-7 which i currently use.ive done the decca thing and im glad i did but i wouldn't go there again. To me, Denons don't really get into the groove. Yes they are very enjoyable listen in terms of fit and forget but if you want to extract the most from the groves, there are far better cartridges for the job. High end Lyra's, for instance, are fantastic but at a high premium. The Lyra Clavis is a great little cartridge that can be found for about £4/500 used. The AT33PTGII is probably the best budget MC cartridge I've ever heard and TBH, it's a great listen. AT Carts lose out on the slightly softer bass presentation in my book but it's so hard to fault and it feels naughty to criticize it for the price.
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Post by karma67 on Apr 20, 2019 8:58:58 GMT
ART-7 must be a helluva cart. I don’t ah e enough records to justify one, but if a used one appeared below market value, I’d probs have a go. The Art 7 is a cracker. If a new cart under £1k is what you're after I'd recommend it. That said, I'd recommend a used Kontrapunkt B first as I prefered it when I had the ART7 on home trial. Not much in it tbh but as I've stated, Ortofons of that calibre do it for me. Then there's the option of getting it modded to 90% of the ORTOFON VIENNA!!! Jamie has heard that cartridge and will vouch for its utter brilliance. yes i can,it was stunning! ive got an art-9 turning up today,i bought it thinking there wouldn't be any ortofon KB's around,oli found one in austria and that should be here next week,the sensible thing would be to return the art-9 un-opened and wait for the KB to arrive............i wonder how long i can hold out for? lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 12:06:42 GMT
The Art 7 is a cracker. If a new cart under £1k is what you're after I'd recommend it. That said, I'd recommend a used Kontrapunkt B first as I prefered it when I had the ART7 on home trial. Not much in it tbh but as I've stated, Ortofons of that calibre do it for me. Then there's the option of getting it modded to 90% of the ORTOFON VIENNA!!! Jamie has heard that cartridge and will vouch for its utter brilliance. yes i can,it was stunning! ive got an art-9 turning up today,i bought it thinking there wouldn't be any ortofon KB's around,oli found one in austria and that should be here next week,the sensible thing would be to return the art-9 un-opened and wait for the KB to arrive............i wonder how long i can hold out for? lol Argh! Is it wise to have one in the house and NOT try it? Only you know your financial situation but if I didn't need to return it, I'd certainly try it out. And yes, Austria not Denmark as I mistakenly stated elsewhere lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 13:24:37 GMT
The Mayware cart is best fed into the Mayware 'T-24' SUT & then into MM Cart input. I Bought a Formula 4, T-24 II & MC-7' direct from Mayware in the early 80's.. The 'T-24' is special Its not powered & its self setting in both Voltage & Impedance..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 5:45:18 GMT
Are expensive MC cartridges worth it? I think they start to become too HiFi and not true to the body of the music. I have been tempted by the Cartridge Man réputation, but having never heard one, I am reluctant to pull the trigger.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 14, 2019 11:09:42 GMT
Don't forget the Rega Ania. The once wild Apheta (from 2007?) has been successfully tamed and refined now and the Ania is a standard elliptical 'version' with plastic rather than cast skeletal body and a basically friendly tonal balance with no excesses. You'll need a translator - www.lowbeats.de/test-rega-ania-regas-kleinster-mc-abtaster/Response not so different from popular price AT's and this one's made in the UK.
P.S. What's rarely considered is the phono stage overload margin which must be able these days to deal with '+5db' at 20khz or under. Some cheaper types have limited overload margins..
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Post by sq225917 on Jul 14, 2019 16:08:24 GMT
Overload or headroom relates to cartridge output level. Use to sensitive a cart and you're likely to hit the voltage rail limit on the gain stage. Most typically. Cos they've underspecced the psu, the gain devices themselves will have loads of gain to spare, they just run the psu into rail and cause clipping, breakup.
This most usually happens in the low frequencies where theres much more power requirement for a given db level, not at the hf limit where power demands are much less for the same volume level.
If you hear hf breakup it's because of an under damped cart,not the signal level.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 16:15:36 GMT
oc9 goes down in my hifi history as the biggest pos to ever grace my system..ear splitting shite.. denon dl304 is the best needle i have ever used..wiped the floor with that oc9 another pos needle is the goldring 1042..full of nastyness..records i know well for bad sound we unplayable with that pos
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 16:19:09 GMT
Are expensive MC cartridges worth it? I think they start to become too HiFi and not true to the body of the music. I have been tempted by the Cartridge Man réputation, but having never heard one, I am reluctant to pull the trigger. nope i had a linn arkiv on an lp12 ekos lingo. pos cartridge..was all set up by doug brady in covent garden btw...they gave the whole lp12 a clean bill of health..that was my ocd hifi box swapping days..i have since learnt most hifi is plain junk and you'll never find what ya looking for
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 16:58:21 GMT
nope i had a linn arkiv on an lp12 ekos lingo. pos cartridge..was all set up by doug brady in covent garden btw...they gave the whole lp12 a clean bill of health..that was my ocd hifi box swapping days..i have since learnt most hifi is plain junk and you'll never find what ya looking for I suppose if your music tastes are Abba, Boney M, BZN, Kylie Minogue & Jason Donovan, Spice Girls, Bananarama, and Pussy Cat you are quite correct
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 16:59:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 17:10:28 GMT
Got a handful of vintage ADC's somewhere and there's a Decca Mk.III, plus a couple of ZYX R100's and Eroica knocking about.
Last cartridge I used was the M75ED in my PL-12D. There's a bunch of other MM's too. Hardly play records now, so most of it will go sooner or later.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 17:37:39 GMT
Which ADC do you recommend? Is it “better” than an M75ED, or shall I just stick with my EPC-205 mk3?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 17:40:59 GMT
I would also like to listen to an MP500 one day.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 17:43:54 GMT
Which ADC do you recommend? Is it “better” than an M75ED, or shall I just stick with my EPC-205 mk3? The EPC-205 is one MM I've never tried. They are well liked. I did use the EPC-305MC for years, that was excellent! As for ADC's, I like the XLM, 10E Mk.IV and the rare 10E Mk.II. The 550E is good too. Not tried the ZLM, but it too is rated well. M75ED doesn't come close, it's just a decent budget MM of its time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 17:55:26 GMT
I have an EPC-310MC currently fitted. It sounds rather good even if it has been modified with a paratrace stylus. If the 305 is better, then it must be good. The trouble is finding a cartridge of this age that still works correctly.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 14, 2019 18:11:23 GMT
I use a ZLM (new original stylus) on my Dual 701 mostly and it ain't going anywhere...
If Rudi hates the OC9 it's due to balance issues elsewhere and a very harsh speaker crossover methinks. The Linn Arkiv was a very gentle almost 'dark' sounding cartridge when fitted to a Cirkus LP12 from the early 90's (so most of the plinth updates) and Ekos arm. Problems are often where you're not looking, so if the 'LP12' system sounded 'harsh,' then I'd look elsewhere as a new Arkiv just can't sound this way, at least to me...
Maybe overload margins are due to all manner of things, but the way surface ticks and splats are handled does seem to tie in with poor overload handling in the phono stage I think, but ymmv.
The 1042 sounded great on a period Rega 3/RB300, but less impressive on other deck 'systems.'
The top Nagaoka's used to be very good, but prices now are a bit silly, especially at the other end where the 200, 110 and 100 tend to sound very 'dirty' for the money now being asked. Just my vibe of course.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 14, 2019 18:40:03 GMT
Got a handful of vintage ADC's somewhere and there's a Decca Mk.III, plus a couple of ZYX R100's and Eroica knocking about. Last cartridge I used was the M75ED in my PL-12D. There's a bunch of other MM's too. Hardly play records now, so most of it will go sooner or later. Those Zyx have always interested me. Like the Hanas, they seemed to rise in price as soon as they got a good rep. I’m guessing you got in early and snapped up two. Well done for spotting the potential. I’m likely set for life with my low hours AT-OC7 and still in its box AT-OC9. I just like what they do. Doesn’t stop me liking others such as the Supex based ones and better DL-103 variants though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 18:44:04 GMT
I'm no vinyl expert. But I always liked the sound of the budget Audio Technica MM cartridge. The one with the green body, can't remember the model number now.
S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 14, 2019 18:45:40 GMT
I'm no vinyl expert. But I always liked the sound of the budget Audio Technica MM cartridge. The one with the green body, can't remember the model number now. S. AT-95e. It was my first proper cartridge, I’ve had a few since and they never fail to entertain.
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