Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 17, 2019 16:45:03 GMT
Rega arms have no easy pillar height adjustment sadly unlike more expensive tonearms and adding spacers never really did it for me, all else being equal. NAS decks had an easy collet fixing for these arms, gripping the pillar firmly almost all round (allen key acting on the collet rather than the pillar to close it up around the pillar) and this made VTA via the pillar very easy indeed. I think they've now gone back to a fully round hole with an allen screw to lock it which works but not as 'nicely' imo. Re arms, the Jelco-for-Linn 250 arm isn't so pricey these days I wonder if anyone will try it away from the LP12? I’m forgetting Rega use that nasty 3 point mount now, I’m so used to using Pete Riggle VTAF, or Michell or OL VTA adjusters. I wouldn’t touch a modern Rega arm with a barge pole. They were never any good as stock, with crap cable, tags and plugs, plus a rubbish counterweight and stub on cheaper models. By the time you pay for a re-wire and a new back end, you may as well just buy another arm. The 3 point mount just puts the fly on top of the turd AFAIC. |
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Post by antonio on Jul 17, 2019 17:10:31 GMT
"It will alter other parameters too, so why not just alter arm pillar height? Sorry if I’m missing something here."
I cannot lower at the arm pillar end, so I thought putting one or more mats on the platter would do the same job, only I prefer the Achromat on its own. I do notice that the headshell part of the Rega arm looks parallel with the platter.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 17, 2019 17:40:42 GMT
"It will alter other parameters too, so why not just alter arm pillar height? Sorry if I’m missing something here." I cannot lower at the arm pillar end, so I thought putting one or more mats on the platter would do the same job, only I prefer the Achromat on its own. I do notice that the headshell part of the Rega arm looks parallel with the platter. As yours is an old school Rega arm, OL and Michell do a threaded VTA adjuster. I think they are about £25 which is a bit steep fir what they are but in the overal, scheme of things it isn’t massive. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 17, 2019 17:43:14 GMT
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Post by antonio on Jul 17, 2019 17:51:09 GMT
I use the old style pillar arm but cannot use one of those VTA adjusters Westie. Can you remember you sent me a special locking nut because the arm board is very deep. When you say spacer do you mean headshell spacer?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 17, 2019 20:20:10 GMT
I use the old style pillar arm but cannot use one of those VTA adjusters Westie. Can you remember you sent me a special locking nut because the arm board is very deep. When you say spacer do you mean headshell spacer? Sorry I’m getting mixed up.,I initially thought you had an o,d school arm. With the pillar. Then I thought it was the 3 point mount. I was referring to a spacer for the 3 point mount arms. I remember the threaded locknut for deeper armboards, but I thought you still might just have scope for the OL threaded vta adjuster, My only other thought is that you could have try a 3mm achromat if the one you have is 5mm. Might not be as good though. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 0:25:33 GMT
The nightmare that is rega arms.
I know Audiomods made a micrometer for their rega derived arm and I thought that was genius.
How rega let the non adjustable arm out the door, I'll never know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 3:17:48 GMT
i must have had 50 cartridges over the years.
only one or two have ever been quite good. none have been amazing.
audio technica atf-5 was way better then the oc5 oc7 and oc9
linn k18 was ok
never like ortofons..had a rohman in the 90's..crap.
imho finding a good cartridge that works with the rest of your kit is a tough job.
many forget VTA..this has to be right. u cant just throw any cart on a rega 300 with no VTA adjustment and think it's gonna work..
of all the carts i have had only one has passed end of side distortion on a certain few records i have..DL304. made the albums bearable.
unless u have a giant record collection forget vinyl ffs. it's not worth all the hassle..stick with lossless.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 3:19:34 GMT
The nightmare that is rega arms. I know Audiomods made a micrometer for their rega derived arm and I thought that was genius. How rega let the non adjustable arm out the door, I'll never know. VTA is critical ..rega arms are only any good with rega cartridges..but some are pretty good..elys 2 was ok |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 3:20:54 GMT
I use the old style pillar arm but cannot use one of those VTA adjusters Westie. Can you remember you sent me a special locking nut because the arm board is very deep. When you say spacer do you mean headshell spacer? u need an sme VTA is childs play on me series v.. |
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Post by antonio on Jul 18, 2019 4:36:45 GMT
I've got a 3mm Achromat, maybe I should have got a 5mm.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 18, 2019 5:14:42 GMT
The nightmare that is rega arms. I know Audiomods made a micrometer for their rega derived arm and I thought that was genius. How rega let the non adjustable arm out the door, I'll never know. I’m not promising it’s the best thing since sliced bread, but the Tabriz Zi has impressed me. Early ones look like crap and this later one is still ugly, But it sounds way better than I expected and handles an MC cart without issue. Fully adjustable too. It has a separate arm cable so you can dabble too. You’d probably get one for close to Rega arm prices. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 6:26:41 GMT
The nightmare that is rega arms. I know Audiomods made a micrometer for their rega derived arm and I thought that was genius. How rega let the non adjustable arm out the door, I'll never know. Simple. They were designed only for use with Rega cartridges. I hate Rega arms. Sure, they'll play music and sound OK............Until you compare them to a good arm and then realise what dull sounding things the Regas are. The only thing in their favour is price. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 6:46:47 GMT
I've got a 3mm Achromat, maybe I should have got a 5mm. My honest advice is to ditch the rega. If you change cart, you'll be doing this whole dance again. I had a couple of rega arms and heard loads more. They a good enough but I could never get the vta right and Azimuth on one of them for some reason. I decided not to buy an arm without full adjustment after that. I hope you sort it out. Good luck. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 18, 2019 8:29:37 GMT
I've got a 3mm Achromat, maybe I should have got a 5mm. My honest advice is to ditch the rega. If you change cart, you'll be doing this whole dance again. I had a couple of rega arms and heard loads more. They a good enough but I could never get the vta right and Azimuth on one of them for some reason. I decided not to buy an arm without full adjustment after that. I hope you sort it out. Good luck. Pete Riggle VTAF will sort it and improve it no end, but you’d still need a rewire and an OL or Riggle rear end to make it really good. That puts it into another price bracket. |
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Post by antonio on Jul 18, 2019 8:38:42 GMT
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Post by dsjr on Jul 18, 2019 8:57:28 GMT
I've seen both and heard the '8.'
The Rega 8 has the precision engineering inside where you can't really see it, not much to look at but the arm is actually very good indeed imo. You get the sonics, the belt system brings the mass loaded platter to speed quickly, the supply allows speed fine-tuning and given some hours' use, the motor can quieten down to be all but inaudible in use. the Ania cartridge available in the package is a goodie imo too. Thing is, to me anyway, there's no bling or eye candy to grap the eyes - it's all in the music reproduction and for some, no doubt this isn't enough as we all listen with our eyes to a degree.
The MoFi thing feels more rubbery/soft plastic in some ways, but kind of looks cute in an LPT or Pro-ject kind of way (only way I can describe it looking back). Coloured belt relieves the visuals a bit but it's all on show just like a cheap Pro-ject. The tonearm is a retro step, with exposed thread-n-weight bias and the vertical bearings are not in line with the headshell offset. Maybe audiophiles only play totally flat records, but warps will cause the headshell to tilt slightly as the arm goes up and down. Since a few 'exalted' audiophile grade tonearms do this, it may not be an issue and possibly ignored here in manufacturing-ease terms.
I'm still a huge fan of the AceSpace with heavy kit, to which a Rega arm can easily be fitted and allowing full VTA adjustment (Wave Mechanic supply a future upgrade). I'm told the P8 may well be better, but whether this is a 'HiFi' difference or a musical one I don't know as I've not been able to compare them. NAS decks aren't the best 'finished' of the oil-rig types, but again, the engineering is underneath the skin and they run with little maintenance needed for decades, the silicon belt not deforming or stretching as rubbery ones can and do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 18:10:07 GMT
Any thoughts on the AT15Sa or AT20SLa?
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Post by antonio on Jul 18, 2019 18:33:15 GMT
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Post by dsjr on Jul 18, 2019 19:49:06 GMT
Probably a bit outdated now, but back in the mid 70's when these were current, the 20SLa was superb in my Dual 701 and other good arms able to track it. The current 700 series don't seem quite as exciting as the 540 model - look on the Lowbeats site for review, measurement and soundbites. I think one of the 700's uses the 540 stylus and the better one something else (I need to read again to confirm). By the late 70's, the Entre and then Supex 900E ruled in the UK, folowed by the all conquering (in our little world) Asak, the tracking non-abilities of this one really did dictate what records you played, although the Asak T version (selected and with extra glue inside) was slightly better... MM's kind of slipped down after this sea-change in Top End sensibilities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 20:16:16 GMT
If a cartridge was good in the 70s, why should it be no good now?
The technology has not changed much, and the bean counters probably had less of a say back then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 22:15:50 GMT
Just bought an AT20SLa to see what all the fuss is about.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2019 2:10:35 GMT
I’d never heard of it until you mentioned it. I’ve yet to hear a bad AT, or one that wasn’t a bargain.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 8:24:21 GMT
The AT20SLA was a top of the range MM cartridge. It comes with the original stylus, which is supposed to be in good condition.
I bought it through eBay, so if it is crap, it will go back.
It will be interesting to see how it compares to my EPC-205.
I really like the sound of my AT cartridges, it I just can’t see myself spending the money required for a top of the range MC.
With a young child in the house, it is too risky.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 21, 2019 8:56:23 GMT
If a cartridge was good in the 70s, why should it be no good now? The technology has not changed much, and the bean counters probably had less of a say back then. Diamonds today can be finished better more cheaply at the lower end of ranges, hence the gradually improving quality of the endearing AT95 family and descendants, the admittedly bonded diamond chip being very well finished on my later example.
Back in the 70's, we didn't have neutral references with which to compare, so many cartridges rolled the top off or had uncontrolled hf peaks which could mess with older design phono stages I remember. Whatever people still think of 'digital,' I believe it gave a wake-up call to many manufacturers with a business dealing with vinyl playback and modern cartridges are lively more than dull these days. AT fell between the two stools at one point, the Signat MM's being a bit dull back then if not now, but the AT20SLa was a goodie. having said that, the early Shibata tip has been refined a couple of times since, and you may get slightly more surface noise from the 20SLa compared to the best of today's efforts.
Here's the modern version -
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 9:15:41 GMT
Was the AT150MLX the predecessor to the VM750SH?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 9:18:11 GMT
A while back, I looked at the fifty year old shanked diamond elliptical stylus tips on my ADC's with a microscope. They really are superbly finished, so I'm not that certain we have advanced.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 9:41:10 GMT
If a cartridge was good in the 70s, why should it be no good now? The technology has not changed much, and the bean counters probably had less of a say back then. Diamonds today can be finished better more cheaply at the lower end of ranges, hence the gradually improving quality of the endearing AT95 family and descendants, the admittedly bonded diamond chip being very well finished on my later example.
Back in the 70's, we didn't have neutral references with which to compare, so many cartridges rolled the top off or had uncontrolled hf peaks which could mess with older design phono stages I remember. Whatever people still think of 'digital,' I believe it gave a wake-up call to many manufacturers with a business dealing with vinyl playback and modern cartridges are lively more than dull these days. AT fell between the two stools at one point, the Signat MM's being a bit dull back then if not now, but the AT20SLa was a goodie. having said that, the early Shibata tip has been refined a couple of times since, and you may get slightly more surface noise from the 20SLa compared to the best of today's efforts.
Here's the modern version -
you are truely incredible with your knowledge on hifi..every post i read of yours just blows my mind.. and any forum you post on the owners must be delighted to have you .  have u ever thought of going on mastermind? |
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Post by karma67 on Jul 21, 2019 9:55:03 GMT
Diamonds today can be finished better more cheaply at the lower end of ranges, hence the gradually improving quality of the endearing AT95 family and descendants, the admittedly bonded diamond chip being very well finished on my later example.
Back in the 70's, we didn't have neutral references with which to compare, so many cartridges rolled the top off or had uncontrolled hf peaks which could mess with older design phono stages I remember. Whatever people still think of 'digital,' I believe it gave a wake-up call to many manufacturers with a business dealing with vinyl playback and modern cartridges are lively more than dull these days. AT fell between the two stools at one point, the Signat MM's being a bit dull back then if not now, but the AT20SLa was a goodie. having said that, the early Shibata tip has been refined a couple of times since, and you may get slightly more surface noise from the 20SLa compared to the best of today's efforts.
Here's the modern version -
you are truely incredible with your knowledge on hifi..every post i read of yours just blows my mind.. and any forum you post on the owners must be delighted to have you . have u ever thought of going on mastermind? or with dennis nordon on looks familiar! |
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2019 11:19:47 GMT
you are truely incredible with your knowledge on hifi..every post i read of yours just blows my mind.. and any forum you post on the owners must be delighted to have you . have u ever thought of going on mastermind? or with dennis nordon on looks familiar! You couldn’t put Dave on Mastermind because nobody else would know enough to write the questions  |
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