Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 16:02:43 GMT
Posting in a 'characterful' style is all about knowing your audience. If you think you're being wonderfully clever and funny but your 'targets' think you're being genuinely nasty and hurtful then you modify your behaviour accordingly. Unless you mean to be genuinely nasty and hurtful...in which case you deserve to get banned, anyway. Do you opine your position regarding such behaviour deserving of a banning on every forum that you frequent ? e.g. should a male not a member of said forum be accused of being gay and the accuser state that they are glad if such an accusation hurt the accused individual, would you comment that the accuser should be banned from that forum? |
|
|
|
Shilling
Mar 9, 2019 16:18:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by savvypaul on Mar 9, 2019 16:18:25 GMT
Posting in a 'characterful' style is all about knowing your audience. If you think you're being wonderfully clever and funny but your 'targets' think you're being genuinely nasty and hurtful then you modify your behaviour accordingly. Unless you mean to be genuinely nasty and hurtful...in which case you deserve to get banned, anyway. Do you opine your position regarding such behaviour deserving of a banning on every forum that you frequent ? e.g. should a male not a member of said forum be accused of being gay and the accuser state that they are glad if such an accusation hurt the accused individual, would you comment that the accuser should be banned from that forum? You already know my opinion. Now, let's not break rule 3... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 16:23:37 GMT
Do I! Are you refering to the crime or the penalty ? Do bare in mind that this is a hypothetical scenario.
|
|
|
|
Shilling
Mar 9, 2019 16:39:11 GMT
via mobile
Post by savvypaul on Mar 9, 2019 16:39:11 GMT
Of the crime or the penalty ? Do bare in mind that this is a hypothetical scenario. The rules and moderation of other forums are not for discussion here. Hypothetical or otherwise. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 16:44:14 GMT
I make no reference to the rules and moderation of other forna, I am merely curious that since you took such a verbose moral stance here, whether you would do so elsewhere regarding the ultimate sanction.
|
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Mar 9, 2019 16:44:46 GMT
You're way out macca I think and with respect. Entry level high quality solid state amps start at a very few hundred and in addition to the £300 NVA pair which I still rate for charming domestic musical reproduction, what about mainstream stuff from Onkyo (really smart little integrated for £229 or so), Cambridge, Arcam and Rotel if they're still around, Yamaha too if specs and visuals matter and of course the Rega Brio R I used to be accused of shilling?
We obviously have a different definition of 'High Quality'. Something like a Rega Brio is competent, not saying it isn't. But is not in the same league as a Radford. Whether it is worth paying the extra to have the Radford is up to the individual but let's not kid ourselves that they all sound the same and it doesn't matter. We'll need to sit down and directly compare the two, level matched, although the less powerful one won't go as loud on peaks as it'd be clipping or compressing.. I was shown back in the mid 90's how far output transistor tech had come (not the fancy ones, just ordinary off the shelf bipolar types), so for one thing you wouldn't need four or more to bring up the output and apparently they match better these days, so crossover distortion (highly audible I think) isn't a particular concern as it was, so shedloads of feedback and so on isn't always necessary I gather. A high damping factor is always beneficial, especially into modern 'porty' boxes I think and the amp doesn't change its response into typical passive loads so much either..
Anyway, I bet both of us would be fooled by the £229 Onkyo playing at sensible levels into a not difficult a load, as long as neither of us knew what was playing.
Seriously, what does a £1,000 integrated buy you today? More power at less distortion hopefully and also hopefully easier ability into low impedances. A fancier more costly case to house the larger power supply, extra bells and whistles to play with and shedloads of hidden costs on manufacturing, boxing and shipping a larger heavier package. In Regas case (I know this brand better than many others these days), you get more power, a larger case and a better specified phono stage at least, although 'cosmetically' the amp sounds like it's baby brother, as it does the top Osiris model, which I don't know is still being made as it bombed in the UK for no design fault of its own imo.
Anyway, this ain't talking about shilling and I'll start being accused of mentioning Rega again...
|
|
|
|
Shilling
Mar 9, 2019 16:59:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by savvypaul on Mar 9, 2019 16:59:18 GMT
I make no reference to the rules and moderation of other forna, I am merely curious that since you took such a verbose moral stance here, whether you would do so elsewhere regarding the ultimate sanction. Whether someone should be banned from a forum depends on the forum rules. We cant discuss other forums here and I've no interest in discussing hypothetical forums, so we shall have to leave it there. |
|
|
|
Post by macca on Mar 9, 2019 17:18:44 GMT
We obviously have a different definition of 'High Quality'. Something like a Rega Brio is competent, not saying it isn't. But is not in the same league as a Radford. Whether it is worth paying the extra to have the Radford is up to the individual but let's not kid ourselves that they all sound the same and it doesn't matter.
Anyway, I bet both of us would be fooled by the £229 Onkyo playing at sensible levels into a not difficult a load, as long as neither of us knew what was playing.
If I thought that was true that's what I'd be using. 30 years experience tells me that it isn't. I'm sure it would sound fine but it wouldn't sound top notch. I'd happily take that blind test against something that I consider is top notch. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 17:50:39 GMT
I make no reference to the rules and moderation of other forna, I am merely curious that since you took such a verbose moral stance here, whether you would do so elsewhere regarding the ultimate sanction. Whether someone should be banned from a forum depends on the forum rules. Indeed, and should be the purview of the admin team here to pronounce upon, It struck me as curious and rather distasful that you felt the need to make your own judgment public and comment in the manner that you did...referencing a now banned member who no longer has a right of reply. Was there really any need ? Merely curious whether that is your usual online modus operandi of choice. ADMIN: OK, Paul has already expressed no desire to engage in this subject. What happens elsewhere on other forums is of no interest to this one. Let's move on please. |
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Mar 9, 2019 18:19:19 GMT
Anyway, I bet both of us would be fooled by the £229 Onkyo playing at sensible levels into a not difficult a load, as long as neither of us knew what was playing.
If I thought that was true that's what I'd be using. 30 years experience tells me that it isn't. I'm sure it would sound fine but it wouldn't sound top notch. I'd happily take that blind test against something that I consider is top notch. Identify 'Top Notch.' I think you'd be amazed how our eyes tell us most of what we need to know - our ears are pretty Sh#t by and large and vary too much with so many external influences, but we've been there before so not worth discussing. |
|
|
|
Post by macca on Mar 9, 2019 18:29:49 GMT
If I thought that was true that's what I'd be using. 30 years experience tells me that it isn't. I'm sure it would sound fine but it wouldn't sound top notch. I'd happily take that blind test against something that I consider is top notch. Identify 'Top Notch.' I think you'd be amazed how our eyes tell us most of what we need to know - No I really wouldn't! But we aren't talking mains cables or magic stones here. Amplifiers don't all sound the same even if working within their limits. And there's perfectly well known reasons as to why that is. |
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Mar 9, 2019 18:45:10 GMT
But a good cheap amp has a hell of a lot less in the way than an ott amp like yours, which is overkill everything right from the input sockets to the bent metal speaker terminal conductors/bus bars   Modern components may help the simpler product do its job really well with little to no compromise as long as the power supply is up to it and it's not being pushed to its limits. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 18:50:53 GMT
Identify 'Top Notch.' I think you'd be amazed how our eyes tell us most of what we need to know - No I really wouldn't! But we aren't talking mains cables or magic stones here. Amplifiers don't all sound the same even if working within their limits. And there's perfectly well known reasons as to why that is. I've been switching between amps in and out of the system here today and they sound very different. Conclusions, if anybody is interested are, Quad 707 sounds detailed, very relaxed and smooth, Quad 306 rather more open and revealing and extremely musical, seventeen quid TPA3116 Class D mini amp, at least as good and possibly better than either. We're talking about sound quality here, not power output, not that there's any shortage of usable volume. |
|
|
|
Post by macca on Mar 9, 2019 18:59:23 GMT
Dave - Good theory but in practice it just isn't the case. Most amps are compromised due to cost. What do you think those £229 Onkyos cost for a container load, landed? £5O each? And the manufacturer is taking a cut of that. You can't build a perfect amp for twenty quid. Just the power supply regulation alone is going to show itself up when you ask it to do some large bass transients. Don't know about you but I spot that sort of stuff right away - it bothers me - and since I can afford to spend a bit more to make it go away I do.
Maybe the 'all about the musical communication' crowd wouldn't care about such things but amps crapping out in the bass is a deal breaker for me. As are any number of other 'hi-fi' considerations.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,406
|
Post by Bigman80 on Mar 9, 2019 18:59:48 GMT
Was that using the T amp as a power amp, Geoff, or was it as an integrated up against pre/power combos?
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,406
|
Post by Bigman80 on Mar 9, 2019 19:02:41 GMT
Imagine someone being accused of shilling a £17 amp.......Surely nobody would be daft enough to even think that. Is price a factor? Or value maybe?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 19:14:15 GMT
Was that using the T amp as a power amp, Geoff, or was it as an integrated up against pre/power combos? The latter mate. It's not a T amp, those use Tripath chips and operate at a different switching frequency. |
|
|
|
Post by pauld on Mar 9, 2019 19:28:44 GMT
I make no reference to the rules and moderation of other forna, I am merely curious that since you took such a verbose moral stance here, whether you would do so elsewhere regarding the ultimate sanction. Where does this word forua come from? surely it is forums. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 19:35:24 GMT
I make no reference to the rules and moderation of other forna, I am merely curious that since you took such a verbose moral stance here, whether you would do so elsewhere regarding the ultimate sanction. Where does this word forua come from? surely it is forums. Forum, being a Latin word had a natural plural of Fora, but via common usage this has become Forums in English. Either is acceptable. |
|
|
|
Post by macca on Mar 9, 2019 19:44:43 GMT
forna
farua
fora
All sounds wrong to me. It's England so we speak English and it's 'forums'.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 19:56:50 GMT
forna farua fora All sounds wrong to me. It's England so we speak English and it's 'forums'. I think the top two were typos actually. Typos being a little known Greek island actually.  |
|
|
|
Post by macca on Mar 9, 2019 19:58:59 GMT
I know.
|
|
|
|
Shilling
Mar 9, 2019 19:59:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by savvypaul on Mar 9, 2019 19:59:19 GMT
forna farua fora All sounds wrong to me. It's England so we speak English and it's 'forums'. I think the top two were typos actually. Typos being a little known Greek island actually. Quality!! |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,406
|
Post by Bigman80 on Mar 9, 2019 20:04:59 GMT
I love Greece! Looks like I’ve missed that island.
|
|
|
|
Post by macca on Mar 9, 2019 20:11:19 GMT
Imagine someone being accused of shilling a £17 amp.......Surely nobody would be daft enough to even think that. Is price a factor? Or value maybe? I read a fair few hi-fi forums and I don't see much evidence that there is much shilling. You get the occasional complaint about dealers 'hawking their wares' in none-trade threads. But they are identified as dealers so it's not a shill. In ten years I can only think of 2 or 3 instances where a shilling accusation has come up and had some validity across 5 or 6 forums. Even if you think it's a major issue when it does it's not something that happens all the time, or even much at all. I know of one case years back now of someone reviewing a speaker cable without ever listening to it. Interestingly some owners of the cable agreed with his findings so whether he got lucky or it was evidence of the power of psychology I don't know. |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,406
|
Post by Bigman80 on Mar 9, 2019 20:11:21 GMT
Was that using the T amp as a power amp, Geoff, or was it as an integrated up against pre/power combos? The latter mate. It's not a T amp, those use Tripath chips and operate at a different switching frequency. I just had to try it. My only other experience was a TA2021 amp and it was unpleasant. This wee fella can always do TV duties with my DIY cubes. I will give it a spin in my main system though. You can’t complain at the price. Even if you hate it and used the to build a passive preamp in. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 20:14:13 GMT
The latter mate. It's not a T amp, those use Tripath chips and operate at a different switching frequency. I just had to try it. My only other experience was a TA2021 amp and it was unpleasant. This wee fella can always do TV duties with my DIY cubes. I will give it a spin in my main system though. You can’t complain at the price. Even if you hate it and used the to build a passive preamp in. Did you order one then? |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,406
|
Post by Bigman80 on Mar 9, 2019 20:24:52 GMT
Yep, just now. Here’s my plan: Between us we can shill the hell out of the thing. At £17 a pop and maybe £1 profit per unit, we can probably put an extra tenner in the makers pocket between us if we really push the thing. If we can get a 10% kickback that’s 50p each! Now all I have to do is decide what to spend it on.....a Mars bar or a Pot Noodle |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 20:46:35 GMT
Yep, just now. Here’s my plan: Between us we can shill the hell out of the thing. At £17 a pop and maybe £1 profit per unit, we can probably put an extra tenner in the makers pocket between us if we really push the thing. If we can get a 10% kickback that’s 50p each! Now all I have to do is decide what to spend it on.....a Mars bar or a Pot Noodle Good plan. With a bit of luck and persistence we can get ourselves blacklisted on every other audio forum. Did you also order an SMPS for it? This is the one I chose, it works perfectly on the 12v setting: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/96W-Universal-Laptop-Power-Supply-110-220v-AC-To-DC-12V-16V-20V-24V-Adapter-VH-/183377374065?hash=item2ab224ab71 |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,406
|
Post by Bigman80 on Mar 9, 2019 20:50:53 GMT
I didn’t realise I neeeded one but it’s peanuts so I will get one too. I have lots of these things in a bag somewhere but it’s easier to buy one than look up what I need and sift through the ones I have.
|
|
