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Post by hifinutt on Sept 13, 2023 18:15:13 GMT
watching the schiit uk page to see if the urd ever comes into stock !!! nice transport if you can get one
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Post by brucew268 on Sept 13, 2023 19:57:48 GMT
Update: Audiolab > Mutec > Aqvox Well, well, well. This journey is taking some pretty wild twists and turns. Certainly less linear in terms of scale of improvement. Te sheer weight and build quality of the Audiolab had me convinced that this *could* be where CD starts to push the X50D. And in some ways it does. ... Comparing it [Audiolab CDT] to the X50D is where is starts to lose some ground. The soundstage for instance...it seems wider and higher on the X50D, whereas the Audiolab, and Rotel, seem to be about depth, front to back, rather than width. The background of the X50D is consistently like looking into space with the music appearing in it like an apparition carved into the ether. I should point out that not every DAC will create this. It's not just the transport at work here! The resolution is definitely higher with the X50D, There is more micro and macro detail, which gives away that recordings are in recording spaces, whereas via the Audiolab everything feels a little more intimate or personal. The best way to describe these differences is to take "Wade in the Water" by Eva Cassidy and try to explain. On The X50D, it sounds like you are listening to the master. Like you are mixing it at the desk, KNOWING that these tracks are just tracks on a deck and you have added echo, reverb and all of the other studio effects to them. Via the Audio lab, it's as if the song is live, is real..is happening between you and Eva and no one else in the world exists at that time. The added reverb and echo are now totally convincing the mind that Eva wasn't in a recording studio and that she is in fact playing in a small venue, with those effects convincing your mind and creating the mental image. The issue i have is that i really like to hear the mix. The mastering and the engineers work matter to me. I love being in that realm of being able to hear it, but the Audiolab is definitely hitting the dopamine release button more frequently. At this point in proceedings, the CDT part of the experiment isn't quite getting to where i was hoping I'd be. The X50D is still leading the way for 9 out of 10 categories, so to speak. ... Though my server is not even near the same league as the X50D, my listening trials are roughly parallel:
I’ve been testing player software on a NUC with files stored locally and feeding through a Mutec MC-3+USB, and have been comparing it to a CD transport Audiolab 6000CDT.
The file-based play has been giving me better detail, texture, and separation especially in the mids and upper bass. But the CD transport has more realistic dimensionality, tone, flow, and breath of life, and handles the background in complex passages better and slightly more natural leading edges even after playing with CPU frequency settings. Music through the CD transport just feels more “aah, this is more real,” even if the NUC is more impressive on several sonic measures (not as high as “9 out of 10”). I am hoping that trials of some proper server/streamers will show me the other side – ones priced for mortals, so am following your journey here.
Why is there no "eating popcorn" emoji?!
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Post by brucew268 on Sept 13, 2023 20:00:42 GMT
I've been re-reading old reviews of the Theta Data Basic transport from the 90's, reminding me just how stellar everyone agreed its sound was. But it did suffer from two reliability problems or I might still be using mine rather than flogging it for parts 20 years ago.
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Post by bencat on Sept 13, 2023 21:39:39 GMT
Strange to relate I have one of those and nobody but me thinks it is a good transport .
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 13, 2023 21:50:17 GMT
brucew268 I am glad i am not alone in my thoughts on CDT Vs Streamer listening experience. I don't have the issue of either struggling with complex passages, but your comment of "the CD transport has more realistic dimensionality, tone, flow, and breath of life" resonates with me. That's pretty much on par with what i am hearing here. For instance, i played Marlon Williams through the CDT today at decent volume levels. Via the X50D it has always been an extremely revealing portrayal of an interesting artist, but today it was the music that was interesting. the tracks had a very different presentation to them. Far more languid and surreal, with unnerving mysticism and suspense. It was divine. The same analogy i provided before is still very much true. The X50D is like being at the mixing desk, the CDT is giving the listening experience the engineer had in mind. It's great fun. In other news, the X50D is at Alans. He has very kindly dug into the PSU and discovered what it requires. I will be procuring a suitable pair of traffos in the coming days and this puppy will be getting a new PSU.
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Post by electronumpty on Sept 13, 2023 22:42:01 GMT
Interesting stuff folks. Keep it up. 🙂
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Post by brucew268 on Sept 14, 2023 8:19:32 GMT
I can transform the X50, but I feel you may need to experience other streaming front ends as well. The further down the s/n route the more this will become obvious and EVERYTHING in the reply chain becomes more critical no question.
The obvious left field choice would to be try a memory player, no need for fancy cd mechs at all. If I understand that correctly, a memory player promises to be more expensive than a CS-transformed X50D. A PS Audio PerfectWave transport is over £6k and Laufer Teknik's Memory Player costs tens of thousands. Now Audiolab's new 7000CDT (£549) and their 9000CDT have a read-ahead buffer (and further mechanical and RF isolation). That's not the same, though assumably an improvment over the already great 6000CDT. I may open up the 6000CDT and have a look at possible applications of SilentCoat and Stillpoints ERS, though would not go near what Gazjam did in his. |
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Post by hifinutt on Sept 14, 2023 8:38:17 GMT
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Post by misterc on Sept 14, 2023 12:06:12 GMT
I can transform the X50, but I feel you may need to experience other streaming front ends as well. The further down the s/n route the more this will become obvious and EVERYTHING in the reply chain becomes more critical no question.
The obvious left field choice would to be try a memory player, no need for fancy cd mechs at all. If I understand that correctly, a memory player promises to be more expensive than a CS-transformed X50D. A PS Audio PerfectWave transport is over £6k and Laufer Teknik's Memory Player costs tens of thousands. Now Audiolab's new 7000CDT (£549) and their 9000CDT have a read-ahead buffer (and further mechanical and RF isolation). That's not the same, though assumably an improvment over the already great 6000CDT. I may open up the 6000CDT and have a look at possible applications of SilentCoat and Stillpoints ERS, though would not go near what Gazjam did in his. Hello Bruce You can impliment your own quite straightwardly plenty of the off the shelf FPGA fifo buffers plenty of evo boards out there, some DDR3 memory chips just a couple of weeks to get your head around the fact its just basic serial data transfer (very slow compared to what we usual contend with). Some well designed psu's and a nice quality dvd rom drive around £48, some RF conatinment etc and you will good to go. maybe £700 over a few months? You can max out a 6000T imho the biggest gains are the servro drive and psu, plus data transfer section, I have installed bespoke small form factor DDC's in there instead of a DOB used some optical iso couples and stuck it out via AES. But remeber the lower the noise floor on a drier sounding system the more obvious the lack of tonal texture there will be, so a stock slightly bloomy player may well sound really good to start with, but successive updates les will lower the boise floor and improve detai and dynamics BUT it will also thin out the texture as this is delivering a more truer whats on the disc digital presentation imho. The PS audio memory player is very er well............. direct magadon injection to listeners eyeball delivery device think Jazz cats........................... with lashings and lashings of Temazepam It's all about that balance, keeping that sound on the right side of textured and articulate. To be honest there is a lot more in the 6000T to come out than GJ has thus far extracted imho |
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Post by brucew268 on Sept 14, 2023 17:26:58 GMT
If I understand that correctly, a memory player promises to be more expensive than a CS-transformed X50D. A PS Audio PerfectWave transport is over £6k and Laufer Teknik's Memory Player costs tens of thousands. Now Audiolab's new 7000CDT (£549) and their 9000CDT have a read-ahead buffer (and further mechanical and RF isolation). That's not the same, though assumably an improvment over the already great 6000CDT. I may open up the 6000CDT and have a look at possible applications of SilentCoat and Stillpoints ERS, though would not go near what Gazjam did in his. Hello Bruce
You can impliment your own quite straightwardly plenty of the off the shelf FPGA fifo buffers plenty of evo boards out there, some DDR3 memory chips just a couple of weeks to get your head around the fact its just basic serial data transfer (very slow compared to what we usual contend with). Some well designed psu's and a nice quality dvd rom drive around £48, some RF conatinment etc and you will good to go. maybe £700 over a few months?
You can max out a 6000T imho the biggest gains are the servro drive and psu, plus data transfer section, I have installed bespoke small form factor DDC's in there instead of a DOB used some optical iso couples and stuck it out via AES.
But remeber the lower the noise floor on a drier sounding system the more obvious the lack of tonal texture there will be, so a stock slightly bloomy player may well sound really good to start with, but successive updates les will lower the boise floor and improve detai and dynamics BUT it will also thin out the texture as this is delivering a more truer whats on the disc digital presentation imho.
The PS audio memory player is very er well............. direct magadon injection to listeners eyeball delivery device think Jazz cats........................... with lashings and lashings of Temazepam
It's all about that balance, keeping that sound on the right side of textured and articulate.
To be honest there is a lot more in the 6000T to come out than GJ has thus far extracted imho
I'd rather keep my CD's in the loft rather than trying to find room for them in my living/listening space. So what I'd really like is file-based playback that scratches the musical itches described in this thread without breaking the bank or unduly stressing my better half. The Eversolo A6 Master intrigues as does the X50D. Yet if the A6 can't get there and the X50D requires costly upgrades to get there, I can't manage it and might have to stick with spinning CD's. So I'm interested in Oli's journey here.
BTW: My NUC uses Euphony to buffer all tracks to memory and play from there... which has lots going for it but is not yet scratching my musical itch. They claim that using industrial grade RAM (Apacer) will improve things but I'm skeptical that it will span the gap. BTW I imagine the know-how to design and build a memory player is a bit more complicated than I can manage these days, and risking that it will only tantalise not deliver. If Mark Porzilli spent years on it....
I just tried a couple things on the 6000CDT with no significant results but will post that in another thread.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 14, 2023 18:24:31 GMT
Hello Bruce You can impliment your own quite straightwardly plenty of the off the shelf FPGA fifo buffers plenty of evo boards out there, some DDR3 memory chips just a couple of weeks to get your head around the fact its just basic serial data transfer (very slow compared to what we usual contend with). Some well designed psu's and a nice quality dvd rom drive around £48, some RF conatinment etc and you will good to go. maybe £700 over a few months? You can max out a 6000T imho the biggest gains are the servro drive and psu, plus data transfer section, I have installed bespoke small form factor DDC's in there instead of a DOB used some optical iso couples and stuck it out via AES. But remeber the lower the noise floor on a drier sounding system the more obvious the lack of tonal texture there will be, so a stock slightly bloomy player may well sound really good to start with, but successive updates les will lower the boise floor and improve detai and dynamics BUT it will also thin out the texture as this is delivering a more truer whats on the disc digital presentation imho. The PS audio memory player is very er well............. direct magadon injection to listeners eyeball delivery device think Jazz cats...… with lashings and lashings of Temazepam It's all about that balance, keeping that sound on the right side of textured and articulate. To be honest there is a lot more in the 6000T to come out than GJ has thus far extracted imho
I'd rather keep my CD's in the loft rather than trying to find room for them in my living/listening space. So what I'd really like is file-based playback that scratches the musical itches described in this thread without breaking the bank or unduly stressing my better half. The Eversolo A6 Master intrigues as does the X50D. Yet if the A6 can't get there and the X50D requires costly upgrades to get there, I can't manage it and might have to stick with spinning CD's. So I'm interested in Oli's journey here. BTW: My NUC uses Euphony to buffer all tracks to memory and play from there... which has lots going for it but is not yet scratching my musical itch. They claim that using industrial grade RAM (Apacer) will improve things but I'm skeptical that it will span the gap. BTW I imagine the know-how to design and build a memory player is a bit more complicated than I can manage these days, and risking that it will only tantalise not deliver. If Mark Porzilli spent years on it.... I just tried a couple things on the 6000CDT with no significant results but will post that in another thread.
Well that's my hope too. Don't get me wrong, before i recapped and upgraded the Aqvox, the X50D was not on the radar as being an issue. It was only due to the improvements in the Aqvox that this came to light. Also, as the Aqvox is sounding right now, it's less of an issue as the DAC has started to fill out perfectly. I could have happily lived with it, until the AL8000CDM came in and injected some dopamine releases into digital. I totally expect any recapping work on the AL8000CDM to change it's sonic imprint as i am reliably informed that the eye pattern does change for the better with the recap and service. I am confident that the under £100 PSU change in the X50D will bring about the required sonic benefit i crave from it, and if it doesn't, it will be done in such a way that you would never have known it was there. It can revert back to the SMPS and go for sale. I realise some will say the PSU will be crap Chinese/AliExpress stuff, but these guys in China are crushing it IMO and I have been exceptionally happy with what i have gained from using them. A few choice upgrades on their PCB's and they really do perform well. The only real variables left once this PSU change is done, is whether or not a CDT of higher quality can sound better. That's the part i am really looking forward to. My suspicion is that the X50D with LPSU may be the best of all worlds....but we need to find out. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 18, 2023 14:24:06 GMT
As fate would have it...the Audiolab has got to go back. It worked flawlessly for about a week, but now it's persistent in its decision not to play around 70% of the CDs i put in it...CDs it has already played! I am gutted as i was really enjoying it. I have contacted the eBay seller and he has accepted the return. sq225917 if you still have that one of yours available, i would be interested. Drop me a PM. |
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Post by hifinutt on Sept 18, 2023 17:00:45 GMT
ok all you folks , pop the hood and have a watch of this ... only 1500 dollars in Us
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 18, 2023 17:26:25 GMT
ok all you folks , pop the hood and have a watch of this ... only 1500 dollars in Us I am not convinced. I know this is going to sound mad, but i have developed a real aversion to SMD parts. |
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Post by misterc on Sept 18, 2023 17:34:47 GMT
I am not convinced. I know this is going to sound mad, but i have developed a real aversion to SMD parts. You are going to have to embrace them as they really do make the difference Oli, plus many of the mainstream TH will be phased out in the not to distant future except the large inductors and such like.
Care full selection of components and board layout are the key, but this does tale time and exprience.
For exampe, the pro 2 mechanism servo drive board is 90% SMT and that well over 25 years old
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 18, 2023 17:36:56 GMT
I am not convinced. I know this is going to sound mad, but i have developed a real aversion to SMD parts. You are going to have to embrace them as they really do make the difference Oli, plus many of the mainstream TH will be phased out in the not to distant future except the large inductors and such like. Care full selection of components and board layout are the key, but this does tale time and exprience. For exampe, the pro 2 mechanism servo drive board is 90% SMT and that well over 25 years old
I have enough resistors to see me out, Tony. I don't want to embrace them lol |
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Post by brucew268 on Sept 18, 2023 18:52:31 GMT
ok all you folks , pop the hood and have a watch of this ... only 1500 dollars in Us I am not convinced. I know this is going to sound mad, but i have developed a real aversion to SMD parts. Yes, SMD, we'll happily say that you are mad! Then again you won't find me *soldering* those SMD resistors or caps as I don't have the eyes any more, the microscope, nor the hands for that matter.
I watched Paul Rigby's review of the 9000CDT, and though I'm not a fan, the wway he described the difference in sound between the 6000CDT and 9000CDT made me think the 9000CDT would be to your liking. Of course the Jay's Audio CDT2 has OCXO and a CDM4 mechanism which should be a clear cut above... and a clear £1000 more. Or the CDT3 for double the price! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 18, 2023 20:40:20 GMT
I am not convinced. I know this is going to sound mad, but i have developed a real aversion to SMD parts. Yes, SMD, we'll happily say that you are mad! Then again you won't find me *soldering* those SMD resistors or caps as I don't have the eyes any more, the microscope, nor the hands for that matter. I watched Paul Rigby's review of the 9000CDT, and though I'm not a fan, the way he described the difference in sound between the 6000CDT and 9000CDT made me think the 9000CDT would be to your liking. Of course the Jay's Audio CDT2 has OCXO and a CDM4 mechanism which should be a clear cut above... and a clear £1000 more. Or the CDT3 for double the price! If i were to go CD as my main source for digital, it would have to be something significant. The Teac is definitely on the radar, as is the Jays gear, and a MK3 is not out of the question either. Considering the vinyl front end is around £4-5k, it's not unreasonable to think of spending that on a digital front end...IMO. However, that's a big IF. I strongly expect the X50D to show it's capabilities once that SMPS is out. The TEAC and Jays would need to impress! |
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Post by brucew268 on Sept 18, 2023 20:49:26 GMT
I watched Paul Rigby's review of the 9000CDT, and though I'm not a fan, the way he described the difference in sound between the 6000CDT and 9000CDT made me think the 9000CDT would be to your liking. Of course the Jay's Audio CDT2 has OCXO and a CDM4 mechanism which should be a clear cut above... and a clear £1000 more. Or the CDT3 for double the price! If i were to go CD as my main source for digital, it would have to be something significant. The Teac is definitely on the radar, as is the Jays gear, and a MK3 is not out of the question either. Considering the vinyl front end is around £4-5k, it's not unreasonable to think of spending that on a digital front end...IMO. However, that's a big IF. I strongly expect the X50D to show it's capabilities once that SMPS is out. The TEAC and Jays would need to impress! Clock that. What I find curious is that with non-USB outputs, the clocking is done by the transport, so why do some £2k+ transports not bother to tell what oscillator they use? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 18, 2023 21:19:58 GMT
If i were to go CD as my main source for digital, it would have to be something significant. The Teac is definitely on the radar, as is the Jays gear, and a MK3 is not out of the question either. Considering the vinyl front end is around £4-5k, it's not unreasonable to think of spending that on a digital front end...IMO. However, that's a big IF. I strongly expect the X50D to show it's capabilities once that SMPS is out. The TEAC and Jays would need to impress! Clock that. What I find curious is that with non-USB outputs, the clocking is done by the transport, so why do some £2k+ transports not bother to tell what oscillator they use? Good point! Maybe the main of consumers don't care, or don't know what's a good clock and what isnt? |
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Post by hifinutt on Sept 20, 2023 18:56:47 GMT
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 20, 2023 21:16:48 GMT
It's doesn't seem TEAC and Atoll share the same approach...  |
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Post by hifinutt on Sept 21, 2023 17:39:23 GMT
yes wonder if the atoll is any good ? hard to say really
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 21, 2023 17:58:07 GMT
It may all be academic... ...the X50D has been given some serious muscle in the PSU, and it's going to take something serious to dethrone it.  |
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Post by brucew268 on Sept 21, 2023 21:00:25 GMT
It may all be academic... ...the X50D has been given some serious muscle in the PSU, and it's going to take something serious to dethrone it. Better pics or it didn't happen! and a description of changes in the music, when you can tear yourself away. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 22, 2023 6:00:39 GMT
It may all be academic... ...the X50D has been given some serious muscle in the PSU, and it's going to take something serious to dethrone it. Better pics or it didn't happen! and a description of changes in the music, when you can tear yourself away. I will start a thread on it once it's installed properly. It's only lashed up at the moment, and ideally i need to order a single custom wound traffo for the job, rather than the two off the shelf ones i have in there. The voltage off the traffos are a little high and the PSU is running a little warmer then we want. It has a huge FUGLY heatsink bolted on top of a very small heatsink at the minute to allow me to listen and see if it is worth pursuing a proper fit supply. That will be a decision made after i hear Macca's TEAC and hopefully Ian's Jay's |
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Post by hifinutt on Sept 22, 2023 13:41:44 GMT
Look forward to that
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 2, 2023 14:06:28 GMT
The journey continues today The journey towards a TEAC transport has been well and truly kiboshed by needing money elsewhere in life. However, I was gifted this absolute battleship CDT today by a very kind member of the forum, along with 3 million CDs 🤣🤣  The generosity of the forum members here is second to none. . |
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Post by stryder5 on Oct 2, 2023 18:47:32 GMT
@oli, maybe have a lookout for a TAGMclaren F3 CDT I believe they were made by Audiolab.
Gary
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 2, 2023 18:56:22 GMT
@oli, maybe have a lookout for a TAGMclaren F3 CDT I believe they were made by Audiolab. Gary Cheers Gary. This is beyond the Audiolab 8000CDM i had by some margin. Would the Mclaren fare any better? |
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