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Post by macca on Aug 26, 2022 18:31:20 GMT
I been looking at those TADs again. I didn't realise they came with the matching stands, they were a 2 grand optional extra when new.
They tick a lot of boxes, not just in terms of the performance but also I've always loved the proper Japanese high end equipment, especially for the looks and the engineering/build quality. So that's swaying me too.
I'm struggling with the idea of spending that much money though. Even though they are second hand so someone else has taken the biggest hit on them already.
Would they really be that much better than what I have that it would justify that sort of spend? Experience tells me probably not but I've been wrong before.
My other option is to stick as I am with the main system and buy some other kit instead for much less. Still fancy some NS1000M for the TV system. Or maybe JBL L100. That might quell the urge to go nuts.
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Aug 26, 2022 19:15:07 GMT
NS1000M. Oh yes. Should get a minty pair for (comparatively) modest outlay. May be the coolest speaker ever made imo. But to just use them for your TV? Most of your preferred viewing comes from a time when being in colour was a big deal, so I wouldn't expect much sonically  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 26, 2022 21:28:48 GMT
Radical idea..... Why not get Arke to make you some swanky cabs for your Tannoise. Get them in your system and see why you bought them. If you don't like them, or think the Focals are better, flog the Tannoise and put the money towards whatever speaker you fancy. Looking at current prices, that could make you a significant sum of money. That may make the overall spend seem a little less hefty. Or, flog the drivers and accept you'll never hear them? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2022 21:42:18 GMT
Or get a home demo, and put the TAD idea to bed, one way or another.
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edward
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Post by edward on Aug 26, 2022 21:49:41 GMT
I also keep looking at the TADS and salivating over them. For me end-game speakers would involve MBLs, stats or TADs. Not ever owned TADs but have heard them often enough to know they do that 'real' thing. Last time I spent time with TADs were a couple of visits to Tony's gaff. Tony was very kind to spend whatever time without pressure I needed to get a rel sense of what TAD was all about. Absolute ear opener, which 100% confirmed what I experienced at various shows. One show (Hammersmith?) a UK dealer had a very large room with TADs (can't now recall what amps) which floored me. Spent at least 90 minutes in that room. Epiphany! Try get down to Tony's place Martin. Maybe Tony will allow you to bring your amp? Let me know how else I can spend your money. |
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Post by antonio on Aug 27, 2022 4:45:39 GMT
I been looking at those TADs again. I didn't realise they came with the matching stands, they were a 2 grand optional extra when new. They tick a lot of boxes, not just in terms of the performance but also I've always loved the proper Japanese high end equipment, especially for the looks and the engineering/build quality. So that's swaying me too. I'm struggling with the idea of spending that much money though. Even though they are second hand so someone else has taken the biggest hit on them already. Would they really be that much better than what I have that it would justify that sort of spend? Experience tells me probably not but I've been wrong before. My other option is to stick as I am with the main system and buy some other kit instead for much less. Still fancy some NS1000M for the TV system. Or maybe JBL L100. That might quell the urge to go nuts.You have already said you were looking for an end game speaker, what's it to be? |
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Post by macca on Aug 27, 2022 6:40:42 GMT
I also keep looking at the TADS and salivating over them. For me end-game speakers would involve MBLs, stats or TADs. Not ever owned TADs but have heard them often enough to know they do that 'real' thing. Last time I spent time with TADs were a couple of visits to Tony's gaff. Tony was very kind to spend whatever time without pressure I needed to get a rel sense of what TAD was all about. Absolute ear opener, which 100% confirmed what I experienced at various shows. One show (Hammersmith?) a UK dealer had a very large room with TADs (can't now recall what amps) which floored me. Spent at least 90 minutes in that room. Epiphany! Try get down to Tony's place Martin. Maybe Tony will allow you to bring your amp? Let me know how else I can spend your money. well I spent a fair bit of time in the Coherent room at the recent Cranage show. TAD floorstanders, great sound but not a significant (to me) level above what I have here now. I don't think I would get sufficient improvement for the spend. Getting down to Tony's for a listen isn't a realistic proposition. If he was nearby then different story I would certainly arrange something just to know for sure. Had a bit of a session last night and my thought was 'You really don't need to be spending money on this.' Might look at getting a Velodyne sub and seeing if I can integrate it instead. |
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Post by macca on Aug 27, 2022 6:46:08 GMT
NS1000M. Oh yes. Should get a minty pair for (comparatively) modest outlay. May be the coolest speaker ever made imo. But to just use them for your TV? Most of your preferred viewing comes from a time when being in colour was a big deal, so I wouldn't expect much sonically I do watch films and concerts though. Plus the NS1000M is an appreciating classic, I'd always be able to get back the cost of them if I wanted to sell, might even be an investment. |
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 27, 2022 7:22:02 GMT
I know the NS1000M would be heading for a 2nd system, but frankly I think they would disappoint compared to your Focals. I've owned the Yams and also had a recent dem in someone else's system.
Something like the TADs or my MBLs would be a significant step up on your Focals imho.
My own choice having heard TADs on several occasions would be MBLs.
It's the sort of upgrade that grows on you with a little time, a one day dem doesn't cut it.
It's the obvious hear 'em straight away improvements and differences that initially impress, but it's the subtleties that turn out to be more important imo, and they can take weeks or months to get a handle on.
It's the space, the depth, the 3Dness, the subtle dynamic nuances that take you to the musical performance and make it come vividly alive in your room.
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Post by lurch on Aug 27, 2022 7:54:26 GMT
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Post by macca on Aug 27, 2022 8:06:31 GMT
I know the NS1000M would be heading for a 2nd system, but frankly I think they would disappoint compared to your Focals. I've owned the Yams and also had a recent dem in someone else's system. Something like the TADs or my MBLs would be a significant step up on your Focals imho. My own choice having heard TADs on several occasions would be MBLs. It's the sort of upgrade that grows on you with a little time, a one day dem doesn't cut it. It's the obvious hear 'em straight away improvements and differences that initially impress, but it's the subtleties that turn out to be more important imo, and they can take weeks or months to get a handle on. It's the space, the depth, the 3Dness, the subtle dynamic nuances that take you to the musical performance and make it come vividly alive in your room. Agree the Yams overall are not as good as the Focals but they would be in a different system and they are a speaker I have always wanted to own so not really a calculated choice just fulfilling a wish from years back and won't really cost me any money to own them as they are always in demand. MBLs I have never heard. But I think like a lot of the things we disagree on it is because you listen to a lot of Classical and I don't listen to any. I think my room is too narrow to get the benefit of an omni or semi-omni. There's just not enough space to the sides and I see in your room you have loads of space either side of them. |
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Post by macca on Aug 27, 2022 8:09:14 GMT
They look impressive, never heard any Altecs myself but their reputation is pretty strong. |
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 27, 2022 8:24:09 GMT
Actually, the MBLs can rock out with the best of them. They are genre neutral. But obviously you have to hear them for yourself.
But I agree about your room. They do need space to the sides to strut their stuff properly. So the TADs would probably be a better choice for you.
Both speakers are really transparent and will disclose all the foibles of the chosen amplification.
I've heard TADs sound great, I've heard them sound wallpaper peelingly excruciatingly bright, I've heard them sound bland. I think that is down to the amps used. They almost seem to exaggerate these differences.
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Post by antonio on Aug 27, 2022 15:05:49 GMT
macca If you don't want to go to town on your main system, buy Optical's Heco's and transfer your Focal's to the 2nd system. If you didn't want such large speakers in your 2nd system, there are plenty of stand mount options available, I did see some Buchardt's for sale on one of the forums.
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Post by antonio on Aug 27, 2022 15:32:21 GMT
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Aug 27, 2022 16:28:12 GMT
How about "I like my JM Labs, so sod it, I'll stick with them and use my cash for a US road trip in a muscle car".
But if your determined to try other speakers, and getting to them is tricky, I'm happy to provide a taxi service. Within reason. Coherent may be a little too distant for my little van.
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 27, 2022 16:37:31 GMT
How about "I like my JM Labs, so sod it, I'll stick with them and use my cash for a US road trip in a muscle car". Hmm, yes, I can understand that attitude. Very good speakers, no doubt. But. I've had some very good speakers in my time, at "moderate" price levels. Then, with the wife's encouragement, I invested quite a lot more deeply in some MBLs. Bloody Norah. Complete game changer. And I've been smiling ever since. You don't realise how good that level of speaker is until you get them in your room. |
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Post by nonuffin on Aug 27, 2022 18:13:06 GMT
I was talking to Tony a few years ago about my Quadral Chromium Style 6 spealers and he told me I should buy the Style 8 model which is superb with better bass performance. No need really in my tiny listening room as the 6 gives me plenty already. I say the Style 8's are a million miles better than your JM Labs and they are affordable so you can carry on with your takeaway meals habit without any guilt |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 27, 2022 18:43:45 GMT
I was talking to Tony a few years ago about my Quadral Chromium Style 6 spealers and he told me I should buy the Style 8 model which is superb with better bass performance. No need really in my tiny listening room as the 6 gives me plenty already. I say the Style 8's are a million miles better than your JM Labs and they are affordable so you can carry on with your takeaway meals habit without any guilt Erm.......have you heard those JMLabs? They aren't the 2 bit tosh floating around for £200....the modern equivalent is £13k ish. They are superb speakers. I'm not saying the Style 8 aren't, but IMO you need a set of Quadral Titans to oust them in the "overall" performance. The Style 8 are not Titans. Macca's real issue is that £10k isnt enough money to REALLY drag him up the ladder far enough to warrant the spend. I can tell you this too, I wouldnt swap those JMLabs for the TADs either. Yes, there will be gains in areas, but there will be losses in others. For me to spend money on anything now, it be completely better without a downside...apart from the spend obviously. I think that's likely the same for Macca. |
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Post by macca on Aug 28, 2022 6:51:27 GMT
How about "I like my JM Labs, so sod it, I'll stick with them and use my cash for a US road trip in a muscle car". But if your determined to try other speakers, and getting to them is tricky, I'm happy to provide a taxi service. Within reason. Coherent may be a little too distant for my little van. Kind offer mate. Might go with your advice, although already did a U.S road trip. Wasn't in a muscle car though, think it was a Chrysler convertible. |
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Post by macca on Aug 28, 2022 7:13:47 GMT
I was talking to Tony a few years ago about my Quadral Chromium Style 6 spealers and he told me I should buy the Style 8 model which is superb with better bass performance. No need really in my tiny listening room as the 6 gives me plenty already. I say the Style 8's are a million miles better than your JM Labs and they are affordable so you can carry on with your takeaway meals habit without any guilt Here's the Stereophile review of the JM Labs img2.tapuz.co.il/forums/65932823.pdfFocal were making drive units for years before they started making their own speakers. The W sandwich cone drivers have incredibly low distortion, they are up there with the best available in that respect. The cabs weight 38 kilos with large amounts of internal bracing. As he says in the review 'Ask yourself if you can justify paying more'. That's the situation and I am thinking 'No I can't'. I'm sure the Quadral are superb but I doubt very much that they will be better, just slightly different. Likewise with those big Hecos Optical is selling. If I go for something it has to be a step up in all areas otherwise it's not worth it and I will end up with buyer's remorse. I mean it's all very well to say 'Get what I use they're great' but if you don't know what you're comparing to how can you be sure they are better than what I have? Was at the Cranage show last month, must have been in a few dozen rooms, only thing I heard which I thought was a real step up was the Kii3. On a previous year it was the JBL 4365 which made a mockery of pretty much all the other speakers at the show, many of which were a lot more expensive. (The JBL were ten grand at the time). The only other speaker I've heard in the last 20 years that was a genuine step up for me was the Linkwitz LX521 https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/3e30bl/i_had_a_chance_to_visit_linkwitzlab_and_hear_the/ But they are active, need a DIY build and wouldn't work very well in my room for same reason as MBL wouldn't be a good choice. Likewise the Kii3 is active and just too much money to seriously contemplate anyway. |
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Post by nonuffin on Aug 28, 2022 10:02:47 GMT
I was talking to Tony a few years ago about my Quadral Chromium Style 6 spealers and he told me I should buy the Style 8 model which is superb with better bass performance. No need really in my tiny listening room as the 6 gives me plenty already. I say the Style 8's are a million miles better than your JM Labs and they are affordable so you can carry on with your takeaway meals habit without any guilt Erm.......have you heard those JMLabs? They aren't the 2 bit tosh floating around for £200....the modern equivalent is £13k ish. They are superb speakers. I'm not saying the Style 8 aren't, but IMO you need a set of Quadral Titans to oust them in the "overall" performance. The Style 8 are not Titans. Macca's real issue is that £10k isnt enough money to REALLY drag him up the ladder far enough to warrant the spend. I can tell you this too, I wouldnt swap those JMLabs for the TADs either. Yes, there will be gains in areas, but there will be losses in others. For me to spend money on anything now, it be completely better without a downside...apart from the spend obviously. I think that's likely the same for Macca. I was referring to the speakers Martin has now, as opposed to what he may be buying Oli  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2022 10:15:30 GMT
Erm.......have you heard those JMLabs? They aren't the 2 bit tosh floating around for £200....the modern equivalent is £13k ish. They are superb speakers. I'm not saying the Style 8 aren't, but IMO you need a set of Quadral Titans to oust them in the "overall" performance. The Style 8 are not Titans. Macca's real issue is that £10k isnt enough money to REALLY drag him up the ladder far enough to warrant the spend. I can tell you this too, I wouldnt swap those JMLabs for the TADs either. Yes, there will be gains in areas, but there will be losses in others. For me to spend money on anything now, it be completely better without a downside...apart from the spend obviously. I think that's likely the same for Macca. I was referring to the speakers Martin has now, as opposed to what he may be buying Oli Yeah, and me? |
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Post by macca on Aug 28, 2022 10:22:50 GMT
Some confusion - I was looking at buying the JM Labs Utopia (s/h) but I aleady have JM Lab speakers.
Anyway I am knocking the speaker idea on the head, getting a BT2 pre-amp instead.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2022 10:28:03 GMT
Some confusion - I was looking at buying the JM Labs Utopia (s/h) but I aleady have JM Lab speakers. Anyway I am knocking the speaker idea on the head, getting a BT2 pre-amp instead. Ah, that makes sense...I'd forgotten about the Focals mentioned earlier. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2022 15:16:32 GMT
I was talking to Tony a few years ago about my Quadral Chromium Style 6 spealers and he told me I should buy the Style 8 model which is superb with better bass performance. No need really in my tiny listening room as the 6 gives me plenty already. I say the Style 8's are a million miles better than your JM Labs and they are affordable so you can carry on with your takeaway meals habit without any guilt Erm.......have you heard those JMLabs? They aren't the 2 bit tosh floating around for £200....the modern equivalent is £13k ish. They are superb speakers. I'm not saying the Style 8 aren't, but IMO you need a set of Quadral Titans to oust them in the "overall" performance. The Style 8 are not Titans. Macca's real issue is that £10k isnt enough money to REALLY drag him up the ladder far enough to warrant the spend. I can tell you this too, I wouldnt swap those JMLabs for the TADs either. Yes, there will be gains in areas, but there will be losses in others. For me to spend money on anything now, it be completely better without a downside...apart from the spend obviously. I think that's likely the same for Macca. I can get a pair of 926 which are “nearly new” for €1500 ish. There is also a pair of 936 available. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2022 15:31:36 GMT
Erm.......have you heard those JMLabs? They aren't the 2 bit tosh floating around for £200....the modern equivalent is £13k ish. They are superb speakers. I'm not saying the Style 8 aren't, but IMO you need a set of Quadral Titans to oust them in the "overall" performance. The Style 8 are not Titans. Macca's real issue is that £10k isnt enough money to REALLY drag him up the ladder far enough to warrant the spend. I can tell you this too, I wouldnt swap those JMLabs for the TADs either. Yes, there will be gains in areas, but there will be losses in others. For me to spend money on anything now, it be completely better without a downside...apart from the spend obviously. I think that's likely the same for Macca. I can get a pair of 926 which are “nearly new” for €1500 ish. There is also a pair of 936 available. If you can, I suggest you do. |
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Aug 28, 2022 16:09:27 GMT
Some confusion - I was looking at buying the JM Labs Utopia (s/h) but I aleady have JM Lab speakers. Anyway I am knocking the speaker idea on the head, getting a BT2 pre-amp instead. Sounds like a wise move - no point rushing into it. You clearly love your speakers and they are obviously incredible performers. I'm sure a BT2 will be a lovely upgrade. Perhaps one day (some time in the future) I'll bring my Arke Ultimates round for a play. I'd love to get your feedback on them. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2022 16:56:21 GMT
Some confusion - I was looking at buying the JM Labs Utopia (s/h) but I aleady have JM Lab speakers. Anyway I am knocking the speaker idea on the head, getting a BT2 pre-amp instead. Sounds like a wise move - no point rushing into it. You clearly love your speakers and they are obviously incredible performers. I'm sure a BT2 will be a lovely upgrade. Perhaps one day (some time in the future) I'll bring my Arke Ultimates round for a play. I'd love to get your feedback on them. We had a session at macca 's a little while back. I took the BT2 and the 686, and coupled to his JMLabs, the sound was absolutely impossible to criticize IMHO. Fantastic imaging, rock solid tonally and scale from top to bottom was brilliant. It had been some time since I listened to a system and found I had some serious decisions to make about my own system. As I said to macca, if he wants to spend some Dinero, I'd whack a full loom of PC-TRIPLE C in, and possibly address the weaker link in the chain: the DCB1. Thankfully the Benchmark HPA4 is grotesque to look at 🤣 |
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Post by macca on Aug 28, 2022 17:28:02 GMT
Some confusion - I was looking at buying the JM Labs Utopia (s/h) but I aleady have JM Lab speakers. Anyway I am knocking the speaker idea on the head, getting a BT2 pre-amp instead. Sounds like a wise move - no point rushing into it. You clearly love your speakers and they are obviously incredible performers. I'm sure a BT2 will be a lovely upgrade. Perhaps one day (some time in the future) I'll bring my Arke Ultimates round for a play. I'd love to get your feedback on them. I would love to have a listen to them if you ever want to schlepp them over. |
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