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Post by macca on Jul 11, 2020 9:57:10 GMT
Yes I did make that point. But then whatever happened to 'trust your ears'? Not sure what happened with the first paragraph. Trust your ears? Well I'd say it depends on how experienced you are with the regards room acoustics. But for the average listener, you're going to have to rely on a visual representation to actually know what's going on. You can faff about as much as you want for a "personalized" sound - if you want to though. As I've said before, some people aren't interested in accuracy. Must admit, it's something I've never ever considered with anything I've bought, and that's nigh-on 45 years. I do though consider it with listening to music on my mobile. The equalisers on music apps I find a total waste of time and never bother with them. Out of curiosity I give them a try, both presets & manual, but I end up switching it out. In all fairness, nothing wrong with with some mild tailoring. A case of suck it and see. A parametric equaliser would be more useful, but then you might as well just go for a room analyser thing. I think people tend to take things out of context. I enjoy listening to music I like, doesn't matter if it is on a Kenwood car stereo or some hundred grand system, as long as it isn't harsh or hard-sounding I;m fine with it. As a completely separate interest I like dicking about with hi-fi equipment. I've got a house full of it (almost literally these days) because although I buy I rarely sell. I know some people just own one of each item and if they upgrade they have to sell the old item on either because it is the only way they can afford to upgrade or because they (or the wife) don't want piles of unused equipment lying around. It seems to be a status symbol these days as to how empty you can make your house look. I've never been concerned with any of that. But I can see how someone who operates that way would think it odd to be slotting into a system old Sony amps, or graphic equalizers, or vintage speakers that a lot of people would walk past if they were being given away. So I will sometimes dig out some old kit and give it a run just for the hell of it. It doesn't affect the important thing, which is enjoying the music, it's just a bit of fun and sometimes an education.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 10:12:15 GMT
Oops. Had me beer head on. 24 bottles of San Miguel's for 12 quid at Sainsbury's. Sorry folks. 🙊 Reading it back I must say I'm amazed at the eloquence considering I passed out half an hour later . 🙂 I'll have another go tonight eh ? .. . .note to self.....must try alternating San Miguel with wine tonight and compare results.
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Post by stevew on Jul 11, 2020 12:52:49 GMT
Oops. Had me beer head on. 24 bottles of San Miguel's for 12 quid at Sainsbury's. Sorry folks. 🙊  Reading it back I must say I'm amazed at the eloquence considering I passed out half an hour later . 🙂 I'll have another go tonight eh ? .. . .note to self.....must try alternating San Miguel with wine tonight and compare results. Made me larf
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Post by macca on Jul 11, 2020 18:04:25 GMT
Oops. Had me beer head on. 24 bottles of San Miguel's for 12 quid at Sainsbury's. Sorry folks. 🙊 Reading it back I must say I'm amazed at the eloquence considering I passed out half an hour later . 🙂 I'll have another go tonight eh ? .. . .note to self.....must try alternating San Miguel with wine tonight and compare results. In vino veritas
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 18:09:39 GMT
Oops. Had me beer head on. 24 bottles of San Miguel's for 12 quid at Sainsbury's. Sorry folks. 🙊 Reading it back I must say I'm amazed at the eloquence considering I passed out half an hour later . 🙂 I'll have another go tonight eh ? .. . .note to self.....must try alternating San Miguel with wine tonight and compare results. Have a few more tonight then Engy, there’s a good lad, tickles me to read it all
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Post by hammer on Jul 14, 2020 14:40:18 GMT
Just arrived from Scotland this morning.....so far so good
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 14, 2020 16:31:02 GMT
Just arrived from Scotland this morning.....so far so good Oh, the new tonearm? Looks fab!
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Post by hammer on Jul 14, 2020 17:00:22 GMT
Cheers Oli been after a new arm for a while as you know,decided to pull the trigger on a Audio Origami PU7 very pleased with it so far,fairly easy to set up as Johnnie sends all the templates you need and their is a video on youtube. And I got him to make it with a 5 pin plug to use the Spotfire cable 😊
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 14, 2020 17:02:55 GMT
Cheers Oli been after a new arm for a while as you know,decided to pull the trigger on a Audio Origami PU7 very pleased with it so far,fairly easy to set up as Johnnie sends all the templates you need and their is a video on youtube. And I got him to make it with a 5 pin plug to use the Spotfire cable 😊 Absolutely right! That Van Damme stuff he fits is absolutely a bottleneck. Glad its up and running OK. I like Johnny, he's a decent character in a ripoff industry.
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Post by hammer on Jul 14, 2020 17:09:02 GMT
Yeah Johnnie is a super bloke to deal with very helpful
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Post by electronumpty on Jul 14, 2020 17:41:36 GMT
Nice buy, really love my Uniarm, the build feels substantial with. quality engineering.
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Post by karma67 on Jul 14, 2020 18:15:30 GMT
Cheers Oli been after a new arm for a while as you know,decided to pull the trigger on a Audio Origami PU7 very pleased with it so far,fairly easy to set up as Johnnie sends all the templates you need and their is a video on youtube. And I got him to make it with a 5 pin plug to use the Spotfire cable 😊 they have a good reputation,ive always fancied hearing one.
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Post by macca on Jul 14, 2020 21:26:25 GMT
What's all this turntable stuff doing on my thread? You go away for a while and when you come back that's it, vinyl people have made themselves at home.
Well, mea casa su casa...
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Post by macca on Aug 3, 2020 16:28:05 GMT
Stupid cables.
Day off today so thought I'd attack the hi-fi again. I've tried a lot of things trying to get back to the sound I used to have with the old Sony XB790QS - DCB1 + Krell KSA50S that was a close to perfect as I've ever heard.
Someone said to me awhile back that the 'softness' that had been driving me nuts was just the 'character' of the Krell KSA100. I suspected they had to be wrong even though my practical experience was suggesting otherwise. This wasn't 'character', it was clearly that something was sitting on the sound. It was like you could tell there was a good system in there, trying to get out, but was just falling short.
I thought I had tried everything - New CD player, nope that didn't cut it. Add one of the latest and best measuring DACs ever. Still not doing it like that old set-up. Different transports? Nope. Try different pre-amplifiers. Nothing happening. Deploy a 10 band graphic equaliser and rack up the HF a bit? Fun to play about with but still no dice.
Running out of things to try I got to thinking about interconnects and speaker cable. When I got the first Krell I was using Chord Odyssey 2. Swapping that out for some nondescript 79 strand had made a significant improvement that time. Suddenly there was body and bass to the sound. Maybe cables were the key. I've always said cables are horses for courses. So I put in the same unbranded 79 strand stuff that nowadays is in use on the TV system.
At first I thought it was maybe a little better but on extended listening the softness and lack of 'rez' to the sound was still there. Fail.
Looked through all my other speaker cables ( must be at least ten sets), but wasn't convinced any of them would help. However while I was up there I saw a whole carrier bag of interconnects so pulled out some NVA SSC that I had used for years when I had an NVA pre-amp. Something in my distant memory told me that I had got these way back when I was having a similar issue (with a completely different set up) and they'd fixed it.
So I swap them in and... well it doesn't solve the problem. In fact now it all sounds a bit weird, hard to put my finger on it but I switched the whole thing off and went and did something else instead for a bit.
Taking some kit back upstairs in vain attempt to tidy up after all the messing about, I noticed some Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cable lying under the bed. Well that did not suit the Krell KSA50S at all so surely not worth the bother to try it with the KSA100ii is it? But the Chord cable does have a rep for being 'bright' and it was brightness, or rather sparkle, that was lacking. So thought I would have one last go at it, took it downstairs and plugged it in.
And bollocks, it actually does the trick.
I mean I would not believe it if I was not sat here hearing it. No more 'shushy' cymbals! There's a couple of songs that have a big cymbal crash and decay, the start of 'Where Do You Think You're Going?' on Dire Strait's 'Communique' album, a number of them on Donal Fagen's 'True Companion' and all through the 'Nightfly' of course.' So I try all of these, and yes, the proper shimmer and decay is there!
Not quite as good as on the old set up mind, that was just jaw-dropping in every respect, but at least it is there now and not just a frigging 'shush' sound. Plus the rest of the sound has opened up too, and although you'd think there must be a con-commitant drop in bass level, or quality, there isn't. That's better too.
Why would a cable that was a poor performer on one Krell be the best option on another Krell? What's that all about? Impedance? I suppose everything comes down to bloody impedance at the end of the day. But it isn't really supposed to matter with cables.
I had been toying with the idea of flogging the Chord cable as well, as it was quite expensive stuff and I figured I wouldn't have use for it ever again. There's a lesson - never sell anything!
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 3, 2020 16:36:58 GMT
The original Krell KSA series is a bit smooth and rolled off with a lack of sparkle and slow dynamics, so a bright cable goes in and two wrongs make a fairly decent approximation to a right. But I suspect that after a while you'll find it's not as close to your formerly perfect system after all. I seem to recall that the Oppo CD spinner did the trick for a while?
Any sign of your old Krell 50S getting fixed, or is it effectively dead? It's worth getting that sorted if you can, imo, it seemed to do what you wanted.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 3, 2020 17:04:57 GMT
Stupid cables. Day off today so thought I'd attack the hi-fi again. I've tried a lot of things trying to get back to the sound I used to have with the old Sony XB790QS - DCB1 + Krell KSA50S that was a close to perfect as I've ever heard. Someone said to me awhile back that the 'softness' that had been driving me nuts was just the 'character' of the Krell KSA100. I suspected they had to be wrong even though my practical experience was suggesting otherwise. This wasn't 'character', it was clearly that something was sitting on the sound. It was like you could tell there was a good system in there, trying to get out, but was just falling short. I thought I had tried everything - New CD player, nope that didn't cut it. Add one of the latest and best measuring DACs ever. Still not doing it like that old set-up. Different transports? Nope. Try different pre-amplifiers. Nothing happening. Deploy a 10 band graphic equaliser and rack up the HF a bit? Fun to play about with but still no dice. Running out of things to try I got to thinking about interconnects and speaker cable. When I got the first Krell I was using Chord Odyssey 2. Swapping that out for some nondescript 79 strand had made a significant improvement that time. Suddenly there was body and bass to the sound. Maybe cables were the key. I've always said cables are horses for courses. So I put in the same unbranded 79 strand stuff that nowadays is in use on the TV system. At first I thought it was maybe a little better but on extended listening the softness and lack of 'rez' to the sound was still there. Fail. Looked through all my other speaker cables ( must be at least ten sets), but wasn't convinced any of them would help. However while I was up there I saw a whole carrier bag of interconnects so pulled out some NVA SSC that I had used for years when I had an NVA pre-amp. Something in my distant memory told me that I had got these way back when I was having a similar issue (with a completely different set up) and they'd fixed it. So I swap them in and... well it doesn't solve the problem. In fact now it all sounds a bit weird, hard to put my finger on it but I switched the whole thing off and went and did something else instead for a bit. Taking some kit back upstairs in vain attempt to tidy up after all the messing about, I noticed some Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cable lying under the bed. Well that did not suit the Krell KSA50S at all so surely not worth the bother to try it with the KSA100ii is it? But the Chord cable does have a rep for being 'bright' and it was brightness, or rather sparkle, that was lacking. So thought I would have one last go at it, took it downstairs and plugged it in. And bollocks, it actually does the trick. I mean I would not believe it if I was not sat here hearing it. No more 'shushy' cymbals! There's a couple of songs that have a big cymbal crash and decay, the start of 'Where Do You Think You're Going?' on Dire Strait's 'Communique' album, a number of them on Donal Fagen's 'True Companion' and all through the 'Nightfly' of course.' So I try all of these, and yes, the proper shimmer and decay is there! Not quite as good as on the old set up mind, that was just jaw-dropping in every respect, but at least it is there now and not just a frigging 'shush' sound. Plus the rest of the sound has opened up too, and although you'd think there must be a con-commitant drop in bass level, or quality, there isn't. That's better too. Why would a cable that was a poor performer on one Krell be the best option on another Krell? What's that all about? Impedance? I suppose everything comes down to bloody impedance at the end of the day. But it isn't really supposed to matter with cables. I had been toying with the idea of flogging the Chord cable as well, as it was quite expensive stuff and I figured I wouldn't have use for it ever again. There's a lesson - never sell anything! The fact is, the Krell IS big creamy cruiser of a muscle amp. Its rich, lush and unfortunately as i said to you a few months back that whilst on some material its divine, eventually you start to hear it's impact on everything you listen to, and once you hear it...you cannot unhear it. The fact the Chord cable is giving you the sound you crave, tells me the big Krell is the issue because that Chord cable is shite. It's sharp, edgy and bright....all the things the Krell needs to satisfy for a little longer. Now, Macca.....i am only going to tell you once more..... Sell the Krell and every other spare amplifier you have.....Get a Neurochrome 686....with torroidal PSU, the same as mine. You will NEVER look at another amplifier. It would drive those JMlabs to nirvana and back for every session. I realise you need someone to build it, but Alan is on here and Simon, and there are folks on AoS who can help. It's not impossible. I mean, I can do 90% of it WHEN the AWM Preamp is built and has the Custom stepped attenuator fitted (channel matched to 0.03db ) I will bring both pieces to you for a listen.
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Post by sq225917 on Aug 3, 2020 18:24:31 GMT
Yeh, 686 all day long. It'll drive a nail through a house brick all delivers nothing but the unfettered truth.
The krell is literally an iron fist in a velvet glove, utterly gripping but just a little smooth all over.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 3, 2020 19:24:46 GMT
Yeh, 686 all day long. It'll drive a nail through a house brick all delivers nothing but the unfettered truth. The krell is literally an iron fist in a velvet glove, utterly gripping but just a little smooth all over. I loved the Krell....I'd have another for the odd dose of American lush-ness, when the mood suited. Definitely one of my faves but the 686 crushes it in all honesty. I realise I have become boring, repetitive and crap to follow in terms of box swapping, but that says everything about the 686....it's a cure.
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 3, 2020 21:18:47 GMT
Yeh, 686 all day long. It'll drive a nail through a house brick all delivers nothing but the unfettered truth. The krell is literally an iron fist in a velvet glove, utterly gripping but just a little smooth all over. I realise I have become boring, repetitive No, no - surely not. You've mentioned the Neurochrome before, have you?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 3, 2020 21:37:47 GMT
I realise I have become boring, repetitive No, no - surely not. You've mentioned the Neurochrome before, have you? Maybe once or twice lol
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Post by macca on Aug 4, 2020 7:51:26 GMT
I nearly bought a used Benchmark AHB2 the other day. £1700. Managed to resist in the end.
Just need to get the other Krell fixed, no need to spend another fortune on amplifier when I already have something that was perfect for me.
I'm just working with what I've got at the moment. Right now I think it is possible to get the existing system 'tuned' to how I want it. It just isn't quite there yet. Maybe I'll find out that I can't. But yesterday's experiment was encouraging. I will be trying further combinations of interconnects with the Chord speaker cable and see what happens.
I didn't get nirvana with the old system until I had the cables right.
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Post by macca on Aug 4, 2020 11:18:43 GMT
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 4, 2020 11:50:44 GMT
I shall endeavour to have a thorough read later.... currently grafting
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Post by macca on Aug 15, 2020 10:44:09 GMT
Krell KSA50S is working and back in the system! Infinite thanks to Alan 'Firebottle' - I will be having a word with the Pope and get him made a Saint.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2020 10:52:07 GMT
About time
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 15, 2020 10:55:44 GMT
Yay, well done, Alan. So, has musical bliss returned, Martin? .... and you probably need to set an autoblock on the phrase "should have got a Neurochrome 686"
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 15, 2020 10:58:35 GMT
Krell KSA50S is working and back in the system! Infinite thanks to Alan 'Firebottle' - I will be having a word with the Pope and get him made a Saint. Ha! he is a legend isn't he. What was wrong with it?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 15, 2020 10:59:21 GMT
Yay, well done, Alan. So, has musical bliss returned, Martin? .... and you probably need to set an autoblock on the phrase "should have got a Neurochrome 686" Hahahaha! I'll leave him alone for now....but a bakeoff is looming!
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Post by macca on Aug 15, 2020 11:18:52 GMT
Well spoke to soon. Alan did fix the problem with it not powering up at all, which I think was just the start up board not being properly connected, but now it's warmed up the original fault I sent it to the other bloke to repair, and which he reckoned he'd fixed, has re-appeared.
Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 15, 2020 11:25:28 GMT
Oh fook. What is the issue? Maybe you should have bought a Neurochrome 686
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