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Post by antonio on Oct 20, 2022 10:54:26 GMT
jandl100 I would certainly not go to them if I needed a complete refurbishment, but when they have recently been done by OTA, my feelings were they should put right the speaker foc.
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Post by antonio on Oct 20, 2022 10:58:30 GMT
Quick update, I'm streaming Qobuz through the Lumin  Have still to connect a HD with my music on board, will have a go at that later or tomorrow. Initial impressions, the Lumin is very good, better than the Aries, yes but it is pretty close. Will need a little longer and a wider variety of music to fully appreciate any differences. |
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 20, 2022 11:11:17 GMT
jandl100 I would certainly not go to them if I needed a complete refurbishment, but when they have recently been done by OTA, my feelings were they should put right the speaker foc. Best of luck with that, Dave. (I think you'll need it). I think John lurch has some not entirely positive experience in sorting out Quads (or, actually, not sorting them out). Be prepared for a lot of aggravation. I'd be tempted to cut my losses now and sell them on as slightly faulty. There's loads of other great speakers out there which aren't as temperamental. |
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Post by optical on Oct 20, 2022 11:22:57 GMT
jandl100 I would certainly not go to them if I needed a complete refurbishment, but when they have recently been done by OTA, my feelings were they should put right the speaker foc. You know my (and others) feelings on this subject Dave. I'm the last person to 'sh**-sling' but my direct experience is that certain companies will fight tooth and nail to avoid honouring their LEGAL agreements and responsibilities to their customer base. If you can't stand by a product and support it when it goes wrong, get out of the market as no one wants you there. Eventually the potential customers will all be put off and you'll have no one to mug off left. Writing is on the wall when both the product and support are flaky at best. If the speakers were sold to you with the acknowledgement that the warranty is 'transferrable' then this now involves the seller you bought from as well as the company in question unfortunately. You have my full sympathies Dave but perceverence and reading up of trading standards law is key here. Honestly best of luck. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 20, 2022 11:29:46 GMT
jandl100 I would certainly not go to them if I needed a complete refurbishment, but when they have recently been done by OTA, my feelings were they should put right the speaker foc. Best of luck with that, Dave. (I think you'll need it). I think John lurch has some not entirely positive experience in sorting out Quads (or, actually, not sorting them out). Be prepared for a lot of aggravation. I'd be tempted to cut my losses now and sell them on as slightly faulty. There's loads of other great speakers out there which aren't as temperamental. OTA are absolutely to be avoided. There is lots of history on them being less than reliable.... Should one care to look for it. |
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Post by bencat on Oct 20, 2022 12:14:39 GMT
I would suggest that you get in touch with Andrew Jones at aquadthingaudio.wixsite.com/5763 he has a great knowledge of Quad ESL and any other ESL . Andrew did the complete refurbishment of my Quad ESL 57 and they are still silent and left on 24/7 . Only issue is he is often very busy but this is a reflection of his abilities . I would also say and this is not perhaps going to be great news antonio I bought your NVA P60 and recently had to have it repaired by NVA it is now fully upgraded and repaired to the latest P150 but in the original case . This is the best amplifier I have heard to date driving Quad ESL 57 . It is natural and powerful having no issues getting the Quads to go incredibly loud . I have mine on stand just a little lower than your arrangement but I also have the speakers tilted forward so they are aimed at the listener and not as per the original at the ceiling . That was an original design function of the 57 as it was a mono speaker and used the reflections off the ceiling to give a fuller sound . Of course now using two foe stereo this is not needed and they should be pushed till parallel with the listener . Good luck with your work to get these wonderful speakers singing . |
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Post by lurch on Oct 20, 2022 12:27:42 GMT
Have PM'd Dave with the Number of an OTA trained engineer whom they tend to palm work of to. He bought my 989s and is a really decent guy and seems to know what he's doing.
As for OTA, when one of mine went down within a year of repair (all panels on both speaker done) Steve (rip) sent me an invoice for the re-do, I phoned and reminded him it was a freebie + the return carriage was at his cost not mine. Bless him he coughed up with no argument + he'd covered the fuel bill for getting it to him.
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Post by firebottle on Oct 20, 2022 12:45:12 GMT
2nd photo tells me all I need to know, you are set on the 240-250V setting, that's good.
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Post by optical on Oct 20, 2022 12:56:06 GMT
Have PM'd Dave with the Number of an OTA trained engineer whom they tend to palm work of to. He bought my 989s and is a really decent guy and seems to know what he's doing. As for OTA, when one of mine went down within a year of repair (all panels on both speaker done) Steve (rip) sent me an invoice for the re-do, I phoned and reminded him it was a freebie + the return carriage was at his cost not mine. Bless him he coughed up with no argument + he'd covered the fuel bill for getting it to him. Good of you John, nice one. Hope he can sort things out for Dave without too much hassle. |
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Post by antonio on Oct 20, 2022 13:23:25 GMT
Thank you all for your helpful advice. Firstly I still have my Tuolihao's which are great for me, so not without a replacement speaker. The more I have listened the more I have become accustomed and enjoyed the Quad's. I will be telephoning the number given to me by lurch and see what he says. |
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Post by antonio on Oct 20, 2022 14:11:36 GMT
I have spoken to Simon at One Thing Audio who tells me this was his brother's business, he and his brother ran two separate businesses. He has also said he is trying to sort out everyone's problems as well as sort his deceased brother's estate. He has forwarded my email to the engineer in Leicester so I will wait until I hear something from him.
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Post by antonio on Oct 20, 2022 16:27:54 GMT
I have heard from Andy, a Quad engineer who specialises in 57's for One Thing Audio, I believe he is based in Leicester and I am now on his waiting list due to him being very busy at present.
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 20, 2022 17:58:23 GMT
I have heard from Andy, a Quad engineer who specialises in 57's for One Thing Audio, I believe he is based in Leicester and I am now on his waiting list due to him being very busy at present. This is good news. Maybe share his contact info, if he wants it sharing. I'm sure there are a multitude of Quad owners who'd like to know there is someone out there to help them. The rate at which these things (electrostatics) seem to fail, I'd just sell them on. What a ball ache. |
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 20, 2022 19:25:46 GMT
I agree, the Quad 57 is well and truly vintage gear now.
It is maintainable by the competent amateur, but you need expertise and preferably experience, and imo it's only really those folks who should aspire to ownership these days.
Otherwise, it's an almost inevitable ball ache. If you intend to keep them for the medium or long term it's not if but when they will require work.
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 20, 2022 19:30:22 GMT
I agree, the Quad 57 is well and truly vintage gear now. It is maintainable by the competent amateur, but you need expertise and preferably experience, and imo it's only really those folks who should aspire to ownership these days. Otherwise, it's an almost inevitable ball ache. If you intend to keep them for the medium or long term it's not if but when they will require work. I genuinely don't get people's enthusiasm for them. |
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 21, 2022 0:28:53 GMT
Marmite. Also, when they are "off", they can be dull, muffled, bland, slow and uninteresting imo. If you like their particular flavour, when they are "on" they are spectacularly alive and vibrant. It's quite rare to hear them fully "on" ime. They are one of the most frustrating speakers I've ever come across. The potential is huge, the actual execution usually falls far short of this. I had a recently refurbed pair for a while; not the best pair I've heard but I enjoyed them. They do need to be raised and not far off vertical. And the amp on the right here, with its back to us, is a mk1 Krell KSA50 - certainly not my favourite amp but it did synergise well with the Quads which it gripped quite well.  Please excuse the mess. |
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Post by optical on Oct 21, 2022 6:54:01 GMT
Marmite. Also, when they are "off", they can be dull, muffled, bland, slow and uninteresting imo. If you like their particular flavour, when they are "on" they are spectacularly alive and vibrant. It's quite rare to hear them fully "on" ime. They are one of the most frustrating speakers I've ever come across. The potential is huge, the actual execution usually falls far short of this. I had a recently refurbed pair for a while; not the best pair I've heard but I enjoyed them. They do need to be raised and not far off vertical. And the amp on the right here, with its back to us, is a mk1 Krell KSA50 - certainly not my favourite amp but it did synergise well with the Quads which it gripped quite well. Please excuse the mess. Total ball-ache, couldn't agree more. (Oh wait Chris is about to describe those crappy old junk Quads again . . . yes, yes I am). I've had them "on" as Jerry correctly describes them. Everything has to be right, the room, the distance between and behind the speakers, the amplifier etc etc. You are limited to about 6 inches where your head is within the soundstage but my god, nothing comes close, absolutely nowt. They have limited bass output (although what is there is actually very layered and accurate), beam like a motherf***er and are a little rolled off up the very top. On top of that they do go wrong . . . although if properly serviced and setup then left alone in a non-temperature/humidity fluctuating room they 'can' do a good ten year stint or more without much attention. (I managed 3-4 without issue a few years back but stupidly sold them). They also don't shift air, that's just a fundamental of how non-living room sized panels work. The ultra-mega godzilla ones can do it but you just physically cannot move air with these panels. They are for a pure window into the performance not a 'able to feel the thump in your chest' delivery. That's just a physical difference between how they work vs conventional speakers. So if you require that 'thump' (and I understand if you do) they're not for you. But they have earned their place in the legendary speaker category in my opinion. I will always champion them until I hear better. They don't need power either and they don't sound particularly great with lots of it, what they do like is 10-15w of quality valves played at low to medium volume, exactly what they were designed for. That's if you like the 'touch me' realism and timbral accuracy of most woodwind and stringed instruments. They don't do complicated passages very well and they don't like going loud because this will introduce more distortion and that kills the magic of that unveiled mid-range. Yes I'm waxing lyrical (most will think talking utter bollox too!) but I just don't care about any other speaker in the same way. |
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Post by antonio on Oct 21, 2022 7:07:05 GMT
For those that think cables don't make a difference, I'll tell you what happened earlier today. When setting up the Lumin, I connected it to the router using a Audioquest Vodka ethernet cable, no internet connection so replaced with a cheap one we had spare, switched the router off then on and everything was good. So this morning playing music I paused in the middle of a track, switched back to the Vodka, switched the router off then on and connection to the exact place I had paused the music, pressed play and what a difference, the first thing that was noticeable was the bass, deeper and tighter, I also felt there was a more relaxed presentation to the music. My brother isn't getting that cable back |
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Post by firebottle on Oct 21, 2022 9:46:00 GMT
Marmite. Also, when they are "off", they can be dull, muffled, bland, slow and uninteresting imo. If you like their particular flavour, when they are "on" they are spectacularly alive and vibrant. It's quite rare to hear them fully "on" ime. They are one of the most frustrating speakers I've ever come across. The potential is huge, the actual execution usually falls far short of this. I had a recently refurbed pair for a while; not the best pair I've heard but I enjoyed them. They do need to be raised and not far off vertical. And the amp on the right here, with its back to us, is a mk1 Krell KSA50 - certainly not my favourite amp but it did synergise well with the Quads which it gripped quite well. Please excuse the mess. Total ball-ache, couldn't agree more. (Oh wait Chris is about to describe those crappy old junk Quads again . . . yes, yes I am). I've had them "on" as Jerry correctly describes them. Everything has to be right, the room, the distance between and behind the speakers, the amplifier etc etc. You are limited to about 6 inches where your head is within the soundstage but my god, nothing comes close, absolutely nowt. They have limited bass output (although what is there is actually very layered and accurate), beam like a motherf***er and are a little rolled off up the very top. On top of that they do go wrong . . . although if properly serviced and setup then left alone in a non-temperature/humidity fluctuating room they 'can' do a good ten year stint or more without much attention. (I managed 3-4 without issue a few years back but stupidly sold them). They also don't shift air, that's just a fundamental of how non-living room sized panels work. The ultra-mega godzilla ones can do it but you just physically cannot move air with these panels. They are for a pure window into the performance not a 'able to feel the thump in your chest' delivery. That's just a physical difference between how they work vs conventional speakers. So if you require that 'thump' (and I understand if you do) they're not for you. But they have earned their place in the legendary speaker category in my opinion. I will always champion them until I hear better. They don't need power either and they don't sound particularly great with lots of it, what they do like is 10-15w of quality valves played at low to medium volume, exactly what they were designed for. That's if you like the 'touch me' realism and timbral accuracy of most woodwind and stringed instruments. They don't do complicated passages very well and they don't like going loud because this will introduce more distortion and that kills the magic of that unveiled mid-range. Yes I'm waxing lyrical (most will think talking utter bollox too!) but I just don't care about any other speaker in the same way. Perfect post Chris, you certainly understand the 57's well. I must have bought a really good pair as I have had little trouble in 30 years. The early rectifier blocks do fail after time and I have aslight leakage on one panel but that doesn't affect the performance. I shall be correcting this shortly. |
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Post by bencat on Oct 21, 2022 12:59:52 GMT
I have heard from Andy, a Quad engineer who specialises in 57's for One Thing Audio, I believe he is based in Leicester and I am now on his waiting list due to him being very busy at present. This is good news. Maybe share his contact info, if he wants it sharing. I'm sure there are a multitude of Quad owners who'd like to know there is someone out there to help them. The rate at which these things (electrostatics) seem to fail, I'd just sell them on. What a ball ache. Suspect this is Andrew Jones of AQuadthing Audio and I have given a link to his website earlier in the thread . If this is Andrew then all I can say is he is great to deal with and talk to and from a complete choice of all the Quad ESL range he still uses the ESL 57 as his own speakers which is all you need to know . His work is excellent and in my view good value . Trouble is as I mentioned because his work is so good he is almost always busy so you may have to wait for him to be able to look at and work on your speakers . Well worth the wait . |
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Post by optical on Oct 25, 2022 10:20:07 GMT
I've actually just taken in (like some stray cats) a pair of completely original (although 'refurbished' in 99 by Quad) pair of ESL's.  They have copper coloured grills with custom side cheeks which incorporate the feet. These raise them up a bit from the standard height and a longer foot on the rear tilts them forward a bit too, so they are orientated as they should be. Music is back in my listening room. Actual music. I'm powering them with a 25W SET Transcription Audio 211 amplifier. Spec wise it's a perfect match with them. They are the original Quad panels, they don't have input protection or any additional circuitry and my god are they all the better for it. As some have referenced the input protection circuitry present on all models following the original ESL's (as well as proceeding serial numbers 16000 of ESL's, or there abouts) have this fitted. They don't sound as good. As many on here know, my room eats speakers alive. Bass gets completely lost and the speakers have to over-power the modes in the room to reach the listening position with a good frequency response. Not a problem with the Quads. Being proper di-pole the rear wave from the panels hits the back wall and adds just the right amount of energy to reinforce the low end at the listening position. It sounds natural and smooth again. The midrange is just like nothing else though, strings and woodwind just appear and when recorded as such seem to physically cut a hole in the space immediately in front of you with sound and texture. I'm listening through a TDA1541 single chip DAC with valve buffer on the output stage and yes it's a valve like sound, but combined with the resolution of the BT2 preamp and the Quads pure and transparent accuracy, it is by no means mushy or any of the shortcomings usually levelled at valve equipment. There is limited bass which I'm augmenting with subs and ultimately the absolute top end is rolled off but this culminates in the most relaxing sound one could wish for. It's beautifully clear and natural but will never get shrill to any degree. There is so much nuance and atmosphere, it's hard to describe. I sat there just listening until gone 2:30 last night (I get up for work at 6 . . . ). Are they perfect, absolutely not, far from it in fact. They fall apart on really complex passages and don't play compressed rock music well at all (but live stuff they can). People say they won't play electronica/dance music but this is incorrect, obviously they won't do the thumping bass thing like a TL design or giant enclosed cab but with soundscape stuff and soundtracks (Bladerunner, Nils Frahm etc) they are exceptional, especially with the subs. Having said all that I still completely get why people don't like these speakers, they have more shortcomings than most speakers, that's a fact but for midrange music in the 'sweetspot' they have no equal in my listening experience. I'm wholly addicted to this sound and I can't let it go. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 25, 2022 11:13:23 GMT
I've actually just taken in (like some stray cats) a pair of completely original (although 'refurbished' in 99 by Quad) pair of ESL's. They have copper coloured grills with custom side cheeks which incorporate the feet. These raise them up a bit from the standard height and a longer foot on the rear tilts them forward a bit too, so they are orientated as they should be. Music is back in my listening room. Actual music. I'm powering them with a 25W SET Transcription Audio 211 amplifier. Spec wise it's a perfect match with them. They are the original Quad panels, they don't have input protection or any additional circuitry and my god are they all the better for it. As some have referenced the input protection circuitry present on all models following the original ESL's (as well as proceeding serial numbers 16000 of ESL's, or there abouts) have this fitted. They don't sound as good. As many on here know, my room eats speakers alive. Bass gets completely lost and the speakers have to over-power the modes in the room to reach the listening position with a good frequency response. Not a problem with the Quads. Being proper di-pole the rear wave from the panels hits the back wall and adds just the right amount of energy to reinforce the low end at the listening position. It sounds natural and smooth again. The midrange is just like nothing else though, strings and woodwind just appear and when recorded as such seem to physically cut a hole in the space immediately in front of you with sound and texture. I'm listening through a TDA1541 single chip DAC with valve buffer on the output stage and yes it's a valve like sound, but combined with the resolution of the BT2 preamp and the Quads pure and transparent accuracy, it is by no means mushy or any of the shortcomings usually levelled at valve equipment. There is limited bass which I'm augmenting with subs and ultimately the absolute top end is rolled off but this culminates in the most relaxing sound one could wish for. It's beautifully clear and natural but will never get shrill to any degree. There is so much nuance and atmosphere, it's hard to describe. I sat there just listening until gone 2:30 last night (I get up for work at 6 . . . ). Are they perfect, absolutely not, far from it in fact. They fall apart on really complex passages and don't play compressed rock music well at all (but live stuff they can). People say they won't play electronica/dance music but this is incorrect, obviously they won't do the thumping bass thing like a TL design or giant enclosed cab but with soundscape stuff and soundtracks (Bladerunner, Nils Frahm etc) they are exceptional, especially with the subs. Having said all that I still completely get why people don't like these speakers, they have more shortcomings than most speakers, that's a fact but for midrange music in the 'sweetspot' they have no equal in my listening experience. I'm wholly addicted to this sound and I can't let it go. You're banned 🚫 😂😂 |
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Post by optical on Oct 25, 2022 11:18:15 GMT
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 25, 2022 12:33:21 GMT
Glad you've got back to a sound you enjoy. After all, that's all that really matters, isn't it? |
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Post by optical on Oct 25, 2022 12:48:31 GMT
Glad you've got back to a sound you enjoy. After all, that's all that really matters, isn't it? Exactly that mate. Been round full circle (again) but the room is so dictatorial to the speakers. The Quads (and to a lesser extent other electrostats) are no where near as bothered about the issues very much present when using conventional drivers. I just listen without question, which I haven't done since the last time I had Quads setup properly a few years ago . . . .  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2022 16:40:10 GMT
Dave must be really pleased….
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Post by antonio on Oct 25, 2022 17:03:19 GMT
@bigman80 you're banned 🚫 😂😂 Get this imposter off my thread. Only joking Chris, those Quad's looks smart, they obviously sound as good as they look. Are you not going to lift them off the floor with your Quad stands? I can see it is not a straight forward task with the side cheeks extending down to become the feet. The new amp looks incredible, we will have to make a journey to see you sometime, I'd love to hear your system. |
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Post by optical on Oct 25, 2022 18:12:10 GMT
@bigman80 you're banned 🚫 😂😂 Get this imposter off my thread. Only joking Chris, those Quad's looks smart, they obviously sound as good as they look. Are you not going to lift them off the floor with your Quad stands? I can see it is not a straight forward task with the side cheeks extending down to become the feet. The new amp looks incredible, we will have to make a journey to see you sometime, I'd love to hear your system. Dave, they probably would sound better raised a bit higher but in my experience the tilt from having a taller foot on the rear is the most important aspect. I'm not sure how you have yours but if they are just raised on a flat surface ie; resting on the bottom of the frames, but raised. This is in fact the worst configuration as not only is the treble panel still beaming up but it starts from an even higher point so you get lots of low end without any sparkle unless you stand up. You'd be better off having them on the standard feet with a phone book under the rear foot if the stands don't tilt the speaker forward. Sorry I've only just remembered this since getting them or I would have suggested it sooner! The amp is a bit special (so it should be!). I've just ordered new valves all round (so I'm broke) but I've heard enough already to know with a bit of a refresh it could be even better. Having said that even if it onlysoubds the same it's still a high bar of quality, but I'll have peace of mind knowing the valves ain't gonna die on me anytime soon. |
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Post by antonio on Oct 26, 2022 8:22:20 GMT
Time for an update on the Lumin U2 which is in the system and performing great. I orignally used a Amazon Fire tablet to download the Lumin app,it was sitting in a draw doing nothing, unfortunately it does not have the processing power to accommodate the Lumin app, this caused me a few problems to start with having to reset the Lumin and re-download the app, still a problem, downloaded the app on my mini i-pad which I use for my Aries and bob's your uncle. One slight draw back is it does not connect to the wifi wirelessly so I have moved our sky router extender into the listening room, connected with a AQ Vodka ethernet cable (MY BROTHER WANTS THIS CABLE BACK  ) but will be looking to purchase a slightly cheaper one. Well how does it sound, pretty damn good but is it better than my Aries, I'm not sure, I will have to re-insert the Aries back into the system at some point. I have taken the Quad's out of the system for now, replacing them with the Tuolihao's, this was done mainly due to needing to get at my rack and having to mess with the Lumin, the Quad's not leaving even enough space for a slim little thing like me, but also one of them still has an annoying buzz and I am waiting for a slot to have them looked at by A Quad Thing in Leicester who are doing the work for OTA at present. |
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Post by Arke on Oct 26, 2022 12:05:22 GMT
I've actually just taken in (like some stray cats) a pair of completely original (although 'refurbished' in 99 by Quad) pair of ESL's. They have copper coloured grills with custom side cheeks which incorporate the feet. These raise them up a bit from the standard height and a longer foot on the rear tilts them forward a bit too, so they are orientated as they should be. Music is back in my listening room. Actual music. I'm powering them with a 25W SET Transcription Audio 211 amplifier. Spec wise it's a perfect match with them. They are the original Quad panels, they don't have input protection or any additional circuitry and my god are they all the better for it. As some have referenced the input protection circuitry present on all models following the original ESL's (as well as proceeding serial numbers 16000 of ESL's, or there abouts) have this fitted. They don't sound as good. As many on here know, my room eats speakers alive. Bass gets completely lost and the speakers have to over-power the modes in the room to reach the listening position with a good frequency response. Not a problem with the Quads. Being proper di-pole the rear wave from the panels hits the back wall and adds just the right amount of energy to reinforce the low end at the listening position. It sounds natural and smooth again. The midrange is just like nothing else though, strings and woodwind just appear and when recorded as such seem to physically cut a hole in the space immediately in front of you with sound and texture. I'm listening through a TDA1541 single chip DAC with valve buffer on the output stage and yes it's a valve like sound, but combined with the resolution of the BT2 preamp and the Quads pure and transparent accuracy, it is by no means mushy or any of the shortcomings usually levelled at valve equipment. There is limited bass which I'm augmenting with subs and ultimately the absolute top end is rolled off but this culminates in the most relaxing sound one could wish for. It's beautifully clear and natural but will never get shrill to any degree. There is so much nuance and atmosphere, it's hard to describe. I sat there just listening until gone 2:30 last night (I get up for work at 6 . . . ). Are they perfect, absolutely not, far from it in fact. They fall apart on really complex passages and don't play compressed rock music well at all (but live stuff they can). People say they won't play electronica/dance music but this is incorrect, obviously they won't do the thumping bass thing like a TL design or giant enclosed cab but with soundscape stuff and soundtracks (Bladerunner, Nils Frahm etc) they are exceptional, especially with the subs. Having said all that I still completely get why people don't like these speakers, they have more shortcomings than most speakers, that's a fact but for midrange music in the 'sweetspot' they have no equal in my listening experience. I'm wholly addicted to this sound and I can't let it go. Stop it Chris! Your descriptions are so good... I want that sound! I shall be vicariously listening to them later! 🔊😀🔊 |
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) but will be looking to purchase a slightly cheaper one. Well how does it sound, pretty damn good but is it better than my Aries, I'm not sure, I will have to re-insert the Aries back into the system at some point. I have taken the Quad's out of the system for now, replacing them with the Tuolihao's, this was done mainly due to needing to get at my rack and having to mess with the Lumin, the Quad's not leaving even enough space for a slim little thing like me, but also one of them still has an annoying buzz and I am waiting for a slot to have them looked at by A Quad Thing in Leicester who are doing the work for OTA at present.