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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 16:51:17 GMT
Just hit the tit on this amp, I've craved one for years after hearing my uncles one. Waiting list a few months though...!!!  via Imgflip Meme Generator |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 20, 2018 17:00:50 GMT
It's totally out-dated today jammy really - an effin' Naim is better and that's not really saying much!
Thing is, nobody wants to know as I see it, and a 1960's vintage amp re-do in more modern colour scheme and gently glowing valves is of huge appeal to the eyes as well as the heart. Radford made some excellent transformers back then and the circuit built with modern components will last a hell of a lot longer than mine back in 1977, which was knackered after eleven years of domestic use.
Great vintage product, well made and should be long lasting as these things go. Your own amps jammy will be more an open-window to the music, won't need new valves ever five years or so, but I do admit that a pile of black perspex boxes don't look as cool, do they?
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Post by macca on Jul 20, 2018 17:07:26 GMT
have to disagree, Dave. So what if the design is from the 1960s? Their spec matches anything made today and they sound fantastic. And I've compared them with a lot of good amplifiers, they are more than a cut above. If I was prepared to live with the added hassle of valves I'd have one in a second.
The reason I like the Krell is because it does 90% of what the Radfords do. The sound signature is very close.
Jammy if that is on your shortlist don't bother writing anything else down.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 17:08:18 GMT
Aye I was waiting for your input Dave.
Not everyone's cup o char I appreciate that.
But it just sounded sublime, fekin sublime.
Will have a bake off with my NVA set up once I get it and post review.
š
And you are correct Dave plain black plakie boxes do not look as cool imho.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2018 17:34:20 GMT
Wow thatās some purchase, Jammy. Itās a āforever ampā choice, I guess. The fact youāve heard one is a good thing. I recall reading that the ārevivalā isnāt just a clone. They took real care to have the rptransformers specced exactly the same as the original. I find that reassuring.
I have never seen or heard one. The fact that itās old tech wouldnāt worry me at all. No older than many amp circuits I have loved.
I like the idea of being one of a very select group of owners, too. OK, so youāre not supposed to say such things, but if itās true, then why not.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2018 17:36:09 GMT
have to disagree, Dave. So what if the design is from the 1960s? Their spec matches anything made today and they sound fantastic. And I've compared them with a lot of good amplifiers, they are more than a cut above. If I was prepared to live with the added hassle of valves I'd have one in a second. The reason I like the Krell is because it does 90% of what the Radfords do. The sound signature is very close. Jammy if that is on your shortlist don't bother writing anything else down. Sounds like it would be more up,my street than I thought. Iām shallow as hell though and the looks arenāt me. Chrome it out and I might think differently. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2018 17:38:26 GMT
But then again......  |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2018 17:44:11 GMT
Are you planning to use the Rothwell as a preamp, Jammy? I know nothing about the Radfprdās spec bit Iām sure Dave wouldāve said if it was likely to be a mismatch.
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Post by antonio on Jul 20, 2018 17:51:37 GMT
Nice one Jammy if it's what you've wanted. Will be interesting to see if you can get a long with valves.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 18:13:23 GMT
If Black aint for you Andrew they do em in the more traditional 2 tone grey as well - Infact for a wee bit extra any colour you like i believe.
Yes im hoping my Rothwell Indus passive pre will be a fine choice to partner it.
And it will be driving my Falcon Acoustic LS3/5A speakers (83db 15ohm)
Over to you Dave.....ha
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Post by macca on Jul 20, 2018 18:14:33 GMT
have to disagree, Dave. So what if the design is from the 1960s? Their spec matches anything made today and they sound fantastic. And I've compared them with a lot of good amplifiers, they are more than a cut above. If I was prepared to live with the added hassle of valves I'd have one in a second. The reason I like the Krell is because it does 90% of what the Radfords do. The sound signature is very close. Jammy if that is on your shortlist don't bother writing anything else down. Sounds like it would be more up,my street than I thought. Iām shallow as hell though and the looks arenāt me. Chrome it out and I might think differently. Radford Revival will do the finish however you want it. I like the way it looks like a piece of lab equipment, and not like a toy or male jewellery. And I like the champagne finish Marantz stuff, so I'm not immune! But there is an innate beauty in something built well and for a purpose too. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 20, 2018 19:11:19 GMT
have to disagree, Dave. So what if the design is from the 1960s? Their spec matches anything made today and they sound fantastic. And I've compared them with a lot of good amplifiers, they are more than a cut above. If I was prepared to live with the added hassle of valves I'd have one in a second. The reason I like the Krell is because it does 90% of what the Radfords do. The sound signature is very close. Jammy if that is on your shortlist don't bother writing anything else down. No contest, the Krell will win hands down. For modern measurements, check HFN. Low bass distortion is still an order of magnitude higher than any ss amp although far better than the likes of Prima Luna. I have something far better here and don't miss my old Radfords one bit, apart from the silly prices the sheeple pay for fifty year old stuff...
Just checked the review on the original mkIII. The distortion is similar to a solid state amp, spread evenly over the harmonics and not just even order as many valve amps have, just ten times higher 
Still, if it floats yer boat  |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2018 19:18:41 GMT
The mains transformer in the Radford is a beautiful big hulk of a thing. I have really loved the transistor amps Iāve had with big frame transformers. I thought the original Naim 250 to be a lovely amp and the early Exposure IV with a massive frame transformer was the best Exposure Iāve ever heard, way better than the ones with dual toroids, which are still fab by the way,
I know stuff all about any of this and Iām talking off the top of my head, but I have a theory that frame transformers are superior. I also think the transformer (or transformers in the case of valve amps) are one of the most important things to get right.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 20, 2018 19:25:16 GMT
The original NAP250 had the same H&F toroid as the others (I sold em and owned one for some years - sweetest of them all imo - until they drifted off spec). The NAP200? pro model had a frame type but sounded as anonymous as it looked I remember.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2018 19:27:34 GMT
have to disagree, Dave. So what if the design is from the 1960s? Their spec matches anything made today and they sound fantastic. And I've compared them with a lot of good amplifiers, they are more than a cut above. If I was prepared to live with the added hassle of valves I'd have one in a second. The reason I like the Krell is because it does 90% of what the Radfords do. The sound signature is very close. Jammy if that is on your shortlist don't bother writing anything else down. No contest, the Krell will win hands down. For modern measurements, check HFN. Low bass distortion is still an order of magnitude higher than any ss amp although far better than the likes of Prima Luna. I have something far better here and don't miss my old Radfords one bit, apart from the silly prices the sheeple pay for fifty year old stuff... Still, if it floats yer boat Forgive my ignorance, Dave, but would it be much more expensive to buy a Revival than go all out on a full restoration of a vintage one? I have never really looked at Radford amps at any stage so Iām clueless about used value, restoration costs inc casework and price of a new one. If I was going down the route of getting one, I think I too would buy the revival over an old one. It appears to be as faithful as you could get, comes with a full lifetime ahead of it and has no unknowns. Jammy will probably be able to use this for the rest of his life. I wonder how many other new amps out there could offer that. While Iām asking rookie questions, is valve rolling of much benefit with these? I donāt know what they are supplied with as stock. I canāt see them being cheapo jobs because there seems to be a lot of attention to detail rather than building down to a price. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2018 19:38:28 GMT
The original NAP250 had the same H&F toroid as the others (I sold em and owned one for some years - sweetest of them all imo - until they drifted off spec). The NAP200? pro model had a frame type but sounded as anonymous as it looked I remember. So it did! I owned two and recapped both. My faulty memory. God knows what Iām mixing it up with. I had a look at google image search to see if I could figure it out, but no luck. The golf down 250 wasnāt pretty but it was a sweetie. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 19:51:32 GMT
No contest, the Krell will win hands down. For modern measurements, check HFN. Low bass distortion is still an order of magnitude higher than any ss amp although far better than the likes of Prima Luna. I have something far better here and don't miss my old Radfords one bit, apart from the silly prices the sheeple pay for fifty year old stuff... Just checked the review on the original mkIII. The distortion is similar to a solid state amp, spread evenly over the harmonics and not just even order as many valve amps have, just ten times higher Still, if it floats yer boat (DSJR) Well now lets piss on everyone's parade again (unless its NVA of course). Dave i could'nt give a toss about Distortion, what HFS magazine or you for that matter have to say, or modern Measurements or a fat Yank Krell. I like the sound of el34s and like i said on hearing my uncles one many moons ago was beguiled by the sound it produced....Best Valve amp I've heard by a long shot. Oh and the money don't figure either cause i'm in the Oil and richer than Mr Hucker. So.....Na, Na, Na-Na-Na. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 20, 2018 19:55:34 GMT
Regarding the Radford, new or restored old (the transformers are reported to be the same), it's a heart led choice I reckon. I paid a smidge over a hundred quid for mine in 1977 or thereabouts from the original owner (I think he bought a Sony V-FET to replace it). I bought a new set of valves (the originals were still ok - just -) but back then,nobody was interest in servicing it and our own service dept laughed at me (no change there then!). Don't mind me chaps. It's one of the very best of its type and new or vintage will today hold value well. I've been through the valve thing several times and still keep a set of Quad II's (which love Naim A5 - cough) which come out to play every so often |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 20:02:31 GMT
No Probs Dave, each to there own.......
The Transformers are to original spec i believe but built, with modern components and newer tech...better tabs, better insulation, better wire etc.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 20, 2018 20:17:41 GMT
You can afford it. So if you want a total change, then bloody well do it and report back please  I was finally weaned off valves by a Croft OTL playing quietly once when I had friends round. This thing used to pop supply rail fuses, any of the four at random and I kept a meter nearby to check. Thios pccasion I didn't after half an hour and was rewarded by a firework display in the top cover - never again! - I'm justifying why i'm not wetting myself about valve amps - the Radford of ANY AGE won't so this in faorness... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 20:25:05 GMT
I will indeed report back, I can have my own mini bake off against me current NVA set up...
2 X NVA A70s V. Radford STA 25
Should be fun going by the last NVA bake off.š
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 20, 2018 21:01:52 GMT
As interesting as the bake off will be, Iām more keen to see pics! From what Macca has said it must be a different beast to the EL34 amps Iāve owned. They were lazy sounding to me and not grippy.
Might be as much to do with the transformers and circuit though and your Radford is light years ahead of the ones I had on that front.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 22:20:54 GMT
My EL34 monos would change your mind about that Andrew. I have a pair of Modern Classic Tubes CT15 Class A jobs from Germany. They pack a surprising wallop and serious grip even at the bottom end. I'm sure nobody else will know these, they are mega rare. Unusually they are a mirror imaged pair in construction. And talking of mirrors, yes that is one in the back of each amp, it reflects the valve glow when the lights are down, looks great!  |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 6:41:01 GMT
Very interesting design that. Never seen them before, so itās a treat to get a pic here. My only EL34 experiences were Audio Innovations 500, Apollon Apache and Dynavox VR-70e. I may have had others but these are the ones I recall.
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Post by macca on Jul 21, 2018 6:54:06 GMT
A new STA15 is Ā£2750
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 11:53:11 GMT
And the STA25 is Ā£2800.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 12:19:34 GMT
Not much difference in price. Is there any upside to buying the STA15?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 12:25:30 GMT
A new NAP250 is Ā£3899 Never heard the STA15 Andrew I believe some prefer it. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 12:35:02 GMT
A new NAP250 is Ā£3899 Never heard the STA15 Andrew I believe some prefer it. Mad price for a new 250. The older ones look better built to me and cost a few hundred quid. So much new kit is too expensive. At least your Radford will be built with some love and attention rather than churned out from a production line, |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 14:20:07 GMT
Well some good news from Will at RADFORD REV, I should have my STA 25 for Christmas.
Thats been a 5/6 month waiting list so anyone interested best get yer order in now.!!!
Also said they were working hard on a Pre Amp to be available 2019.
I look forward to further developments.
No hint as to if its a Revival project on an old model or a new product.?
Stroll on Xmas.
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