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Post by pete on Jan 4, 2022 11:28:03 GMT
Just reading through this thread, I have never got involved in re-tipping, but was wondering if Killian is no longer serving UK customers, and he is that good, could it not be sent to him through one of our EU based friends, sure it will add to cartridge costs, but??
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 4, 2022 11:33:03 GMT
Just reading through this thread, I have never got involved in re-tipping, but was wondering if Killian is no longer serving UK customers, and he is that good, could it not be sent to him through one of our EU based friends, sure it will add to cartridge costs, but?? Killian IS that good. 100%. That's why Robbie is mega happy with his Caddy Black. However, where there is a will, there's a way and there are avenues available but the extra costs of import and export make it almost not worth the aggro. Very difficult to get mainland Europe to deal with the UK now. |
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Post by antonio on Jan 4, 2022 11:56:09 GMT
A re-tip done properly/correctly can be a delight, Kilian is proof of that in my own experience and having used his services a number of times. The fact he no longer servicing the UK is a big big shame / loss. My Cadenza Black in standard Shibata form was excellent - detailed and smooth. Was it a better cart after being re-tipped with the FGS ? absolutely no question, took things to a whole other level in terms of detail retrieval, insight, tonal/textural info and recorded music info, just better from top to bottom. I never ever thought I'd go the re-tip route but Kilian and this route was recommended to me, by someone who had gone there and was very very happy/impressed with the result indeed and especially at the money, it was a no brainer. Some carts have a very specific character/flavour and this is where I think some people have ended up a little disappointed, where the re-tip has provided a new presentation, different to that flavour or character the user liked. They've felt the dna was lost. I can see this being the case, especially with some of the warm, romantic, characteristic high end Japanese pieces like the Koetsu's and Miajima's, where a re-tip will very likely result in a change that ends up with what makes those carts what they are being lost You must have a damn good audio memory Robbie, I had my Helikon re-tipped by ESCO and was highly delighted for the £330 paid, couldn't have purchased a new cartridge in that class for anything like that money. The only thing, was it better or worse than the original, I've got no idea, I simply cannot remember that far back, was it better than when I sent it to them , it was away for 2 months, but I'm 99% sure it was better, the only problem, the recommendation of only 800 hours of use. |
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Post by robbiegong on Jan 4, 2022 12:01:37 GMT
A re-tip done properly/correctly can be a delight, Kilian is proof of that in my own experience and having used his services a number of times. The fact he no longer servicing the UK is a big big shame / loss. My Cadenza Black in standard Shibata form was excellent - detailed and smooth. Was it a better cart after being re-tipped with the FGS ? absolutely no question, took things to a whole other level in terms of detail retrieval, insight, tonal/textural info and recorded music info, just better from top to bottom. I never ever thought I'd go the re-tip route but Kilian and this route was recommended to me, by someone who had gone there and was very very happy/impressed with the result indeed and especially at the money, it was a no brainer. Some carts have a very specific character/flavour and this is where I think some people have ended up a little disappointed, where the re-tip has provided a new presentation, different to that flavour or character the user liked. They've felt the dna was lost. I can see this being the case, especially with some of the warm, romantic, characteristic high end Japanese pieces like the Koetsu's and Miajima's, where a re-tip will very likely result in a change that ends up with what makes those carts what they are being lost You must have a damn good audio memory Robbie, I had my Helikon re-tipped by ESCO and was highly delighted for the £330 paid, couldn't have purchased a new cartridge in that class for anything like that money. The only thing, was it better or worse than the original, I've got no idea, I simply cannot remember that far back, was it better than when I sent it to them , it was away for 2 months, but I'm 99% sure it was better, the only problem, the recommendation of only 800 hours of use. The difference was pretty obvious to my ears Dave. I listen to my system critically, always have and therefore never struggled to evaluate changes and what each piece has brought to the party, so to speak |
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Post by antonio on Jan 4, 2022 12:07:28 GMT
Sorry Kevin, didn't see the link. Goes to show not everyone has good taste like myself and Jandl.  My main reason for asking is that I have never heard the Karat. I had heard the XX2 in a system I know well, which is why I bought one. They were often recommended for use with LP12's, for me thats' the last tt I'd put an XX2 on, in my opinion you need something faster and leaner, maybe that's why I liked the Clavis when moving from a Karma. I have just noticed your signature Kevin, very funny  |
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Post by electronumpty on Jan 4, 2022 12:12:48 GMT
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Post by antonio on Jan 4, 2022 12:14:15 GMT
You must have a damn good audio memory Robbie, I had my Helikon re-tipped by ESCO and was highly delighted for the £330 paid, couldn't have purchased a new cartridge in that class for anything like that money. The only thing, was it better or worse than the original, I've got no idea, I simply cannot remember that far back, was it better than when I sent it to them , it was away for 2 months, but I'm 99% sure it was better, the only problem, the recommendation of only 800 hours of use. The difference was pretty obvious to my ears Dave. I listen to my system critically, always have and therefore never struggled to evaluate changes and what each piece has brought to the party, so to speak How long ago did you buy the Ortofon Black Robbie? Don't forget, the cartridge should improve for the first 200 hours and then start deteriorating, that's an approximation by the way. |
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Post by robbiegong on Jan 4, 2022 12:19:56 GMT
The difference was pretty obvious to my ears Dave. I listen to my system critically, always have and therefore never struggled to evaluate changes and what each piece has brought to the party, so to speak How long ago did you buy the Ortofon Black Robbie? Don't forget, the cartridge should improve for the first 200 hours and then start deteriorating, that's an approximation by the way. Cant remember exact dates etc Dave. The CB has been my last and current cart, it was bought with low hours, I used it until it wore, hence the re-tip was then the immediate option for me. Not sure the relevance of the improve and deterioration. I've simply expressed my experience. Is there something you are not convinced about ? |
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dt79
Junior Member
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Post by dt79 on Jan 4, 2022 12:39:28 GMT
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Post by antonio on Jan 4, 2022 12:50:55 GMT
How long ago did you buy the Ortofon Black Robbie? Don't forget, the cartridge should improve for the first 200 hours and then start deteriorating, that's an approximation by the way. Cant remember exact dates etc Dave. The CB has been my last and current cart, it was bought with low hours, I used it until it wore, hence the re-tip was then the immediate option for me. Not sure the relevance of the improve and deterioration. I've simply expressed my experience. Is there something you are not convinced about ? Only my audio memory would not go back 1-2 years, whether a cartridge sounded better then or now, we are all different  |
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Post by macca on Jan 4, 2022 13:08:34 GMT
I'd have thought the same thing, assuming the new stylus is the same profile as the old one. having said that when I wrecked the only MC I ever had I opted to trade in for a brand new one rather than re-tip. The new one was not as good as the first one despite being the same cartridge. There's a lot of variables in cartridge construction makes me wonder if any two of any model will sound identical. Strange, what cart was that Macca ? Goldring Eroica low output version. |
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Post by robbiegong on Jan 4, 2022 13:16:47 GMT
Cant remember exact dates etc Dave. The CB has been my last and current cart, it was bought with low hours, I used it until it wore, hence the re-tip was then the immediate option for me. Not sure the relevance of the improve and deterioration. I've simply expressed my experience. Is there something you are not convinced about ? Only my audio memory would not go back 1-2 years, whether a cartridge sounded better then or now, we are all different  Now as you say, we are all different but I find that strange. It's been very clear to me and still is, whether a cart has sounded better or otherwise, over another, and that's in respect of all the carts I've used along the journey |
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 4, 2022 14:33:43 GMT
Just spoke to Terry at Analogue Seduction. Interestingly he didn't seem to think the Lyra would be a good match for the Technics arm. After talking it though his advice was Cadenza Black, very closely followed by Dynavector XX2 Mk2... Will give it some thought.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2022 15:36:48 GMT
Just spoke to Terry at Analogue Seduction. Interestingly he didn't seem to think the Lyra would be a good match for the Technics arm. After talking it though his advice was Cadenza Black, very closely followed by Dynavector XX2 Mk2... Will give it some thought. Someone else with good taste. 🤫 (Don’t tell Dave). If you like the Ortofon sound, then the CBl seems like a safe bet. Will Terry lend you both to try? |
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dt79
Junior Member
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Post by dt79 on Jan 4, 2022 15:53:04 GMT
Just spoke to Terry at Analogue Seduction. Interestingly he didn't seem to think the Lyra would be a good match for the Technics arm. After talking it though his advice was Cadenza Black, very closely followed by Dynavector XX2 Mk2... Will give it some thought. Someone else with good taste. 🤫 (Don’t tell Dave). If you like the Ortofon sound, then the CBl seems like a safe bet. Will Terry lend you both to try? I didn't like to ask that. I figured it was fair enough to ask him to take a chance on potentially getting a cartridge returned that he'd have to use as a demonstrator and/or sell for a slight discount as a one, but it might be taking the p*** a bit to ask him for two with a guarantee that would be the case for one and a possibility of it being the case for both.... hard times, independent retailer and all that.... or am I just being too nice? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 4, 2022 16:58:36 GMT
Someone else with good taste. 🤫 (Don’t tell Dave). If you like the Ortofon sound, then the CBl seems like a safe bet. Will Terry lend you both to try? I didn't like to ask that. I figured it was fair enough to ask him to take a chance on potentially getting a cartridge returned that he'd have to use as a demonstrator and/or sell for a slight discount as a one, but it might be taking the p*** a bit to ask him for two with a guarantee that would be the case for one and a possibility of it being the case for both.... hard times, independent retailer and all that.... or am I just being too nice? I have sent you a PM |
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Post by robbiegong on Jan 4, 2022 16:59:11 GMT
I've never tried one cart I've owned, just took a punt after doing my own homework and informing myself plenty about it through forum member views and customer/user reviews etc - was never disappointed by any one of those carts, so and in order of actual purchase - Ortofon 2M Blue, 2M Black, the original Quintet Black mc, Cadenza Black mc, Cadenza Black-FGS
Cant see you not liking the CBl
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Post by antonio on Jan 4, 2022 19:30:53 GMT
You are being nice, but thinking of others.
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dt79
Junior Member
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Post by dt79 on Jan 6, 2022 12:07:53 GMT
I've ordered the Cadenza Black on a trial basis. I can keep it with option of sending my Bronze in for £450 refund, or send it back if I'm not happy with it. Should get it tomorrow....
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 6, 2022 13:20:26 GMT
I've ordered the Cadenza Black on a trial basis. I can keep it with option of sending my Bronze in for £450 refund, or send it back if I'm not happy with it. Should get it tomorrow.... Well done. Now we wait!!!! |
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Post by karma67 on Jan 6, 2022 16:42:58 GMT
I've ordered the Cadenza Black on a trial basis. I can keep it with option of sending my Bronze in for £450 refund, or send it back if I'm not happy with it. Should get it tomorrow.... win win then |
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Post by rexton on Jan 6, 2022 18:47:32 GMT
You'll need to spend a wee while to set the CB up and then about 50 hours for it to calm down before it starts to sing.
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 7, 2022 17:03:33 GMT
OK it's on. I think I've got it set up perfectly within the limitations of the human eye apart from the SRA. Just Technics 52mm overhang for now, will experiment with other alignments later. The only thing I couldn't get quite spot on is the VTA/SRA. The Shibata diamond on this is a thing of beauty. It's really long with the front and back faces completely vertical and parallel, so it's easy to see what the SRA looks like. From what I've read you need to get it perfectly perpendicular to the record surface. Even on minimum VTA I can't quite achieve that . I've put an origin live platter mat on top of my achromat (which I didn't want to do as it then leaves insufficient spindle for a clamp for less than perfectly flat records) and it's damn close but not quite perfect. I may have try another headshell to get it spot on which is a shame as I wanted to use the Korf.
Anyway how does it sound? Very 'nice' I'd say. Detailed, smooth, holographic. The deep bass seems a little shy. Definitely needs some running in, but off to a promising start!
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Post by robbiegong on Jan 7, 2022 17:06:57 GMT
Nice one Dan, see how it goes with that.
All the Shibata's and these so called sophisticated profiles (ie: FGS), have all liked a slightly tail down / negative rake in my experience, but as I say, see how you get on.
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by dt79 on Jan 7, 2022 17:07:54 GMT
I've just had my first moment of hearing something I've never heard before on a familiar track. That makes me happy 😊
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by dt79 on Jan 7, 2022 17:46:11 GMT
The level of detail really is exquisite.
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Post by robbiegong on Jan 7, 2022 18:02:03 GMT
The level of detail really is exquisite. Yep, and the FGS is even more so, unbelievably  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 7, 2022 18:18:16 GMT
Oooh, this is sounding Positive!
That bass may take a bit to develop.
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by dt79 on Jan 7, 2022 18:27:55 GMT
Oooh, this is sounding Positive! That bass may take a bit to develop. To be fair it already has to a good extent. It may have been as much the BB3 being cold as the cartridge being new 😂
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 7, 2022 18:30:18 GMT
Oooh, this is sounding Positive! That bass may take a bit to develop. To be fair it already has to a good extent. It may have been as much the BB3 being cold as the cartridge being new 😂
🤣🤣🤣 Yeah, gotta let the BB3 warm up! |
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