dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 8, 2022 0:14:49 GMT
Well, I’ve had an evening with the Cadenza Black and it’s a thing of beauty. Streets ahead of the Bronze. I will most certainly be keeping it and if it still has some way to go to get to its best then I’m in for a treat.
Thanks to everyone for their advice.
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Post by antonio on Jan 8, 2022 3:00:52 GMT
Very pleased for you Dan, enjoy.
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Post by karma67 on Jan 8, 2022 6:52:34 GMT
Well, I’ve had an evening with the Cadenza Black and it’s a thing of beauty. Streets ahead of the Bronze. not really a fair comparison, new black compared to a bronze with a shagged tip.
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 8, 2022 9:49:23 GMT
Well, I’ve had an evening with the Cadenza Black and it’s a thing of beauty. Streets ahead of the Bronze. not really a fair comparison, new black compared to a bronze with a shagged tip.
Indeed, but I’m certain the Bronze never sounded as good as this. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 8, 2022 9:56:50 GMT
not really a fair comparison, new black compared to a bronze with a shagged tip.
Indeed, but I’m certain the Bronze never sounded as good as this. Audio memory can be a bit sketchy, but there is a reason is a fair bit more expensive? Either way, super pleased you are enjoying it and another cart is working well with your setup. I suspect you'll be keeping it? |
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 8, 2022 10:21:58 GMT
Indeed, but I’m certain the Bronze never sounded as good as this. Audio memory can be a bit sketchy, but there is a reason is a fair bit more expensive? Either way, super pleased you are enjoying it and another cart is working well with your setup. I suspect you'll be keeping it? Absolutely! I’m only 6.5 hours in and it sounds wonderful. You know when something's ‘right’. |
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Post by karma67 on Jan 8, 2022 10:42:03 GMT
Audio memory can be a bit sketchy, but there is a reason is a fair bit more expensive? Either way, super pleased you are enjoying it and another cart is working well with your setup. I suspect you'll be keeping it? Absolutely! I’m only 6.5 hours in and it sounds wonderful. You know when something's ‘right’. great,the black will probably be my next cartridge too. |
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Post by electronumpty on Jan 8, 2022 10:59:18 GMT
It's always nice/exciting to hear a new cart and listen to it bed in while you evaluate it. Good to hear your investment works for you! These things aren't cheap!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 8, 2022 11:05:13 GMT
Audio memory can be a bit sketchy, but there is a reason is a fair bit more expensive? Either way, super pleased you are enjoying it and another cart is working well with your setup. I suspect you'll be keeping it? Absolutely! I’m only 6.5 hours in and it sounds wonderful. You know when something's ‘right’. In truth, i don't think i have ever heard an Ortofon cart i havent liked. The 2M black was probably the only one that i felt was a bit 50/50 but after a bit of fettling by Killian , it was absolutely miles better. The guys here are right BTW. The FGS stylus is king (IMO) and when the CB needs a retip, theres a guy in the states called Groove tickler. He is happy to work with people in the UK and is highly rated. Now we have an avenue for cart repairs too. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2022 11:33:31 GMT
The 2M Black put me off Ortofon. Any cartridge that needs fettling to sound good is a no go for me.
They are expensive enough, without adding additional cost, that they should work well out of the box.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 8, 2022 11:59:35 GMT
The 2M Black put me off Ortofon. Any cartridge that needs fettling to sound good is a no go for me. They are expensive enough, without adding additional cost, that they should work well out of the box. It's not that it sounded bad, it didn't. It was just a little toppy, a little edgy. That was in a Croft system too, so it could have been anything lol - Joking Seriously, when it got the FGS it was a monster. A really serious cart. I'm gonna get a 2M black and try it in my system at some point. May even try a LVB! Anyway, Ortofon MCs are reliably excellent. The attention to detail is also very impressive. For instance, swapping the Vienna for the Winny required zero adjustment to overhang. You watch Dan completely blow that statement apart by saying his CB had to have overhang adjusted lol |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2022 12:34:36 GMT
That could be down to a capacitance loading issue.
However, regarding the cost of the 2M Black, especially the LVB, it should have a better cantilever.
AT provide boron cantis at that price level, so Ortofon could make a bit of an effort.
I have never heard a good Ortofon MC, so I am on able to comment about how they sound. I am sure they are good.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 8, 2022 12:48:33 GMT
That could be down to a capacitance loading issue. However, regarding the cost of the 2M Black, especially the LVB, it should have a better cantilever. AT provide boron cantis at that price level, so Ortofon could make a bit of an effort. I have never heard a good Ortofon MC, so I am on able to comment about how they sound. I am sure they are good. The LVB has a Boron cantilever? |
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Post by robbiegong on Jan 8, 2022 12:54:46 GMT
That could be down to a capacitance loading issue. However, regarding the cost of the 2M Black, especially the LVB, it should have a better cantilever. AT provide boron cantis at that price level, so Ortofon could make a bit of an effort. I have never heard a good Ortofon MC, so I am on able to comment about how they sound. I am sure they are good. The LVB has a Boron cantilever? yes |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 8, 2022 12:57:41 GMT
The LVB has a Boron cantilever? yes I thought so. It took the Boron Cant and Shibata from the Caddy black. |
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Post by robbiegong on Jan 8, 2022 13:04:43 GMT
The 2MB opened my eyes to what can be achieved in hifi / vinyl replay.
Some felt back when it was launched that £450 approx was a lot of money, that soon changed for many once they'd lived with one, it is a bargain in my opinion, especially considering what genuinely good carts can cost.
It is a PITA to set up / nail its sweetspot, it's profile is tricky to get spot on ( we are not talking a round, golf ball conical profile here ), so you have to be patience, BUT once you've nailed it it sounds fab.
In regards to Ortofon mc's, I've never had/heard a bad one. They are my go to mc, providing great replay, i love what they do, which is simply sound right, detailed accurate, insightful and even a little analytical in a positive sense, the further up you go - addictive
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2022 13:34:57 GMT
I guess it should for €999
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2022 13:37:20 GMT
The 2MB opened my eyes to what can be achieved in hifi / vinyl replay. Some felt back when it was launched that £450 approx was a lot of money, that soon changed for many once they'd lived with one, it is a bargain in my opinion, especially considering what genuinely good carts can cost. It is a PITA to set up / nail its sweetspot, it's profile is tricky to get spot on ( we are not talking a round, golf ball conical profile here ), so you have to be patience, BUT once you've nailed it it sounds fab. In regards to Ortofon mc's, I've never had/heard a bad one. They are my go to mc, providing great replay, i love what they do, which is simply sound right, detailed accurate, insightful and even a little analytical in a positive sense, the further up you go - addictive The AT150mlx did that for me. I kept that in preference to a 2M Black. A 2MB LVB at €999 is outrageously priced. Compare that with a VM 760SLC, which I thought was expensive, and I think Ortofon are taking the piss. But it seems AT have switched to Aluminium cantis. I think I will stick to my Boron and Beryllium versions, thanks very much. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2022 13:48:59 GMT
For €999 I could probably get a much better cartridge.
Sure, it is going to be one of the best currently available MMs, but how does it compare to an EPC205 Jico SAS/B, an MP500, an AT20SS, Grace F9, Shure Ultra 500 etc.
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 8, 2022 14:17:19 GMT
The 2M Black put me off Ortofon. Any cartridge that needs fettling to sound good is a no go for me. They are expensive enough, without adding additional cost, that they should work well out of the box. It's not that it sounded bad, it didn't. It was just a little toppy, a little edgy. That was in a Croft system too, so it could have been anything lol - Joking Seriously, when it got the FGS it was a monster. A really serious cart. I'm gonna get a 2M black and try it in my system at some point. May even try a LVB! Anyway, Ortofon MCs are reliably excellent. The attention to detail is also very impressive. For instance, swapping the Vienna for the Winny required zero adjustment to overhang. You watch Dan completely blow that statement apart by saying his CB had to have overhang adjusted lol 🙂 My headshell has slots not fixed screw holes, so I can’t do the same like for like comparison, but it certainly looks like it’s in an identical position. 2M Black is good, but it definitely has a leaner balance. In fairness I don’t think I ever took the time to get the most out of it and you do have to watch the top end. Once I’ve fully got to grips with the CB I’ll put the 2MB back on and try to get the most out of that. It’s going to be my back-up cartridge and I think I’ll get rid of the rest. With the CB i think I’ve reached the limit of what I can spend. I think it would be overkill going any higher. Early days to be talking about this but I expect I’ll look to get an FGS retip when the time comes and it’s good that we have another recommended person. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2022 14:23:48 GMT
Sounds like a sensible plan.
The CB was above what I wanted to spend, so was not on the list. My sights were set much lower, but someone (JohnJo on AoS, IIRC) found the XX2 I have, and pointed me at it.
He is the reason I have it, as I had decided it was more than I wanted to spend.
But as I am sitting typing this, Imhave my AT33PTG/II playing away, and it is doing a cracking job. I think I paid €400 for that, and I don’t think a 2MB LV 250 will be any better.
I have on the fly VTA on my arm, and I spent many hours getting it right. The only thing I should have done was investigated the capacitive loading, but the AT150 turned up, and I forgot about the 2MB, and sold it on….
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Post by macca on Jan 8, 2022 15:00:43 GMT
For €999 I could probably get a much better cartridge. Sure, it is going to be one of the best currently available MMs, but how does it compare to an EPC205 Jico SAS/B, an MP500, an AT20SS, Grace F9, Shure Ultra 500 etc. I think that's more a matter of taste than of quality. I went from Nag MP30 to Ortofon 540 mk2 (which is essentially the 2M before they rebranded it) and preferred the Nag although the Ortofon did nothing wrong. Then went from the Ortofon to the Nag MP50 which I prefer to the Ortofon but my internal league division still put the MP30 as my favourite. It wasn't about detail etc I was not hearing stuff with one that I wasn't with the others. They all sounded good. I don't think I could really qualify it in words. If I'd had to live with my least favourite of the three, the Ortofon, it would have been no hardship at all. That's one of the reasons I never bothered to explore the more expensive MC cartridges in my own system. The gains over the top MMs are slight at best, it's the preference thing that matters more. The other reasons were that I would also need to upgrade the arm and phono stage to get that little bit of extra. Added to the cost of the MCs I considered, and the cost of replacement, I decided the game wasn't worth the candle. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 8, 2022 15:11:21 GMT
It's not that it sounded bad, it didn't. It was just a little toppy, a little edgy. That was in a Croft system too, so it could have been anything lol - Joking Seriously, when it got the FGS it was a monster. A really serious cart. I'm gonna get a 2M black and try it in my system at some point. May even try a LVB! Anyway, Ortofon MCs are reliably excellent. The attention to detail is also very impressive. For instance, swapping the Vienna for the Winny required zero adjustment to overhang. You watch Dan completely blow that statement apart by saying his CB had to have overhang adjusted lol 🙂 My headshell has slots not fixed screw holes, so I can’t do the same like for like comparison, but it certainly looks like it’s in an identical position. 2M Black is good, but it definitely has a leaner balance. In fairness I don’t think I ever took the time to get the most out of it and you do have to watch the top end. Once I’ve fully got to grips with the CB I’ll put the 2MB back on and try to get the most out of that. It’s going to be my back-up cartridge and I think I’ll get rid of the rest. With the CB i think I’ve reached the limit of what I can spend. I think it would be overkill going any higher. Early days to be talking about this but I expect I’ll look to get an FGS retip when the time comes and it’s good that we have another recommended person. I think is really sensible and is exactly what I'll do with the Windfeld. I won't spend any more, I have decided. Any large expenditure in future will be on Power supplies for the Mutec and Soekris....maybe the Aria too. Other than that...I'll drive the Winfield u til it does 🤣 |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 8, 2022 15:17:03 GMT
Sounds like a sensible plan. The CB was above what I wanted to spend, so was not on the list. My sights were set much lower, but someone (JohnJo on AoS, IIRC) found the XX2 I have, and pointed me at it. He is the reason I have it, as I had decided it was more than I wanted to spend. But as I am sitting typing this, Imhave my AT33PTG/II playing away, and it is doing a cracking job. I think I paid €400 for that, and I don’t think a 2MB LV 250 will be any better. I have on the fly VTA on my arm, and I spent many hours getting it right. The only thing I should have done was investigated the capacitive loading, but the AT150 turned up, and I forgot about the 2MB, and sold it on…. Good cart the AT33PTGII. I thought it to be excellent value for money, but I only paid £250ish for a brand new one IIRC. The LVB250 may be a bit of a dark horse but nearly every review said the same thing.....that it would push a mid-priced MC Unfortunately, I'm not using mid-priced MCs 🥺 I will try one though as, like Dan....it would be a great back up cart. |
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Post by rexton on Jan 8, 2022 16:47:15 GMT
It's a pity that jimbo no longer posts on here. He has the retipped 2MB and has considerable experience setting these up and is a mine of very useful info on the subject. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 8, 2022 16:48:44 GMT
It's a pity that Jimbo no longer posts on here. He has the retipped 2MB and has considerable experience setting these up and is a mine of very useful info on the subject. Yes, a great shame. |
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Post by myles on Jan 8, 2022 18:12:29 GMT
The 2M Black put me off Ortofon. Any cartridge that needs fettling to sound good is a no go for me. They are expensive enough, without adding additional cost, that they should work well out of the box. It's not that it sounded bad, it didn't. It was just a little toppy, a little edgy. That was in a Croft system too, so it could have been anything lol - Joking Seriously, when it got the FGS it was a monster. A really serious cart. I'm gonna get a 2M black and try it in my system at some point. May even try a LVB! Anyway, Ortofon MCs are reliably excellent. The attention to detail is also very impressive. For instance, swapping the Vienna for the Winny required zero adjustment to overhang. You watch Dan completely blow that statement apart by saying his CB had to have overhang adjusted lol Sounds like capacitance or a struggle to get it aligned properly. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 8, 2022 18:17:57 GMT
It's not that it sounded bad, it didn't. It was just a little toppy, a little edgy. That was in a Croft system too, so it could have been anything lol - Joking Seriously, when it got the FGS it was a monster. A really serious cart. I'm gonna get a 2M black and try it in my system at some point. May even try a LVB! Anyway, Ortofon MCs are reliably excellent. The attention to detail is also very impressive. For instance, swapping the Vienna for the Winny required zero adjustment to overhang. You watch Dan completely blow that statement apart by saying his CB had to have overhang adjusted lol Sounds like capacitance or a struggle to get it aligned properly. Wasn't my TT, but the owner is VERY experienced with that particular cart and his setup hadn't changed for 20 years, just replacement carts....all 2M black or Decca Blues (IIRC) |
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Post by myles on Jan 8, 2022 19:12:51 GMT
Sounds like capacitance or a struggle to get it aligned properly. Wasn't my TT, but the owner is VERY experienced with that particular cart and his setup hadn't changed for 20 years, just replacement carts....all 2M black or Decca Blues (IIRC) It took him two decades to realise his cartridges were toppy? 😂 |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 8, 2022 19:25:35 GMT
Wasn't my TT, but the owner is VERY experienced with that particular cart and his setup hadn't changed for 20 years, just replacement carts....all 2M black or Decca Blues (IIRC) It took him two decades to realise his cartridges were toppy? 😂 No, he loved it. |
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