dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 2, 2022 19:47:18 GMT
Happy New Year folks.
I’m going to get myself a new MC cartridge as an alternative to my Cadenza Bronze. I’m going to keep the CB and send it off to be retipped.
I can’t spend ever greater sums each time I buy a new cartridge, so I’m looking in the same territory as the CB and if all I can get for my budget is a different flavour in the same ballpark then so be it.The idea is to mainly run these two and send each off for a retip as and when needed.
I’d like something a bit more neutral and snappier than the CB this time which, lovely though it is, tends towards the warm and fulsome.
This is what I’m looking at so any advice and alternatives welcome.
Lyra Delos ~£1,400 (seems almost universally loved and descriptions of its sound seem like exactly what I’m after)
Hana ML ~£1,100 (again very well regarded and seems a safe bet)
Soundsmith Zephyr Star ~£2,000 (more than I want to spend, but an intriguing contender from what I’ve read)
Koetsu Black Godline ~£2,100 (definitely more than I want to spend and from the reviews/comments I’ve read sounds like it’s more from the rich/warm end of the spectrum which is not necessarily what I’m after).
Music is generally rock and indie with the occasional bit of pop, classical and electronic.
Now that Killian is no longer serving UK customers, I was going to contact Northwest analogue about the CB retip, but interested in if there are any other suggestions.
Cheers
Dan
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 2, 2022 20:10:22 GMT
Happy New Year folks. I’m going to get myself a new MC cartridge as an alternative to my Cadenza Bronze. I’m going to keep the CB and send it off to be retipped. I can’t spend ever greater sums each time I buy a new cartridge, so I’m looking in the same territory as the CB and if all I can get for my budget is a different flavour in the same ballpark then so be it.The idea is to mainly run these two and send each off for a retip as and when needed. I’d like something a bit more neutral and snappier than the CB this time which, lovely though it is, tends towards the warm and fulsome. This is what I’m looking at so any advice and alternatives welcome. Lyra Delos ~£1,400 (seems almost universally loved and descriptions of its sound seem like exactly what I’m after) Hana ML ~£1,100 (again very well regarded and seems a safe bet) Soundsmith Zephyr Star ~£2,000 (more than I want to spend, but an intriguing contender from what I’ve read) Koetsu Black Godline ~£2,100 (definitely more than I want to spend and from the reviews/comments I’ve read sounds like it’s more from the rich/warm end of the spectrum which is not necessarily what I’m after). Music is generally rock and indie with the occasional bit of pop, classical and electronic. Now that Killian is no longer serving UK customers, I was going to contact Northwest analogue about the CB retip, but interested in if there are any other suggestions. Cheers Dan Oh DAN! You're about a week too late to snap up my now surplus Ortofon Vienna. Out of the options you've listed, I'd urge caution as they will all sound totally different to each other and completely different to your Caddy Bronze. I'd suggest sending that Caddy Bronze to Goldring (if they'll do it) for a retip with an FGS. At least that way it'll be fairly similar to what you know. Out of the others, I'd probably pick up a Lyra. They are very good carts IMO but I've not heard them. The Koetsu seems to have a synergy with the bb3 from what lurch has said, so that may be worth an investigate. |
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Post by gninnam on Jan 2, 2022 21:01:01 GMT
I had my DL103M done by Dom at NWA (DCS cantilever with FGS tip) and the service and quality of work is excellent.
Sounds awesome too so fully recommend.
Regards the carts you have listed, agree with Oli - tread carefully.
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Post by lurch on Jan 2, 2022 21:46:00 GMT
Yep the BB3 loves koetsu, I've run a couple of BGLs with mine and currently an RSP. 2 others down here are running a BGL and an Urushi Vermillion. The BGL is richer and more detailed than an ML but its still a party cart, it's not staid or laid back. You can usually pick up a used one for 1-1.3k, the 3 I bought last year were bargains 2 circa 250 hrs at £600 & £675 respectively and a 100 hr for £1k so there are bargains to be had on Ks.
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Post by electronumpty on Jan 2, 2022 22:36:09 GMT
I have a ZYX Ultimate 100, love ot and works very well with the BB3. In your price range too.
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by dt79 on Jan 2, 2022 22:47:13 GMT
Yep the BB3 loves koetsu, I've run a couple of BGLs with mine and currently an RSP. 2 others down here are running a BGL and an Urushi Vermillion. The BGL is richer and more detailed than an ML but its still a party cart, it's not staid or laid back. You can usually pick up a used one for 1-1.3k, the 3 I bought last year were bargains 2 circa 250 hrs at £600 & £675 respectively and a 100 hr for £1k so there are bargains to be had on Ks. I’ll definitely keep an eye open for a decent low hours BGL. |
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by dt79 on Jan 2, 2022 22:47:43 GMT
I have a ZYX Ultimate 100, love ot and works very well with the BB3. In your price range too. Thanks, I’ll check out the ZYX. |
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by dt79 on Jan 2, 2022 22:55:21 GMT
Happy New Year folks. I’m going to get myself a new MC cartridge as an alternative to my Cadenza Bronze. I’m going to keep the CB and send it off to be retipped. I can’t spend ever greater sums each time I buy a new cartridge, so I’m looking in the same territory as the CB and if all I can get for my budget is a different flavour in the same ballpark then so be it.The idea is to mainly run these two and send each off for a retip as and when needed. I’d like something a bit more neutral and snappier than the CB this time which, lovely though it is, tends towards the warm and fulsome. This is what I’m looking at so any advice and alternatives welcome. Lyra Delos ~£1,400 (seems almost universally loved and descriptions of its sound seem like exactly what I’m after) Hana ML ~£1,100 (again very well regarded and seems a safe bet) Soundsmith Zephyr Star ~£2,000 (more than I want to spend, but an intriguing contender from what I’ve read) Koetsu Black Godline ~£2,100 (definitely more than I want to spend and from the reviews/comments I’ve read sounds like it’s more from the rich/warm end of the spectrum which is not necessarily what I’m after). Music is generally rock and indie with the occasional bit of pop, classical and electronic. Now that Killian is no longer serving UK customers, I was going to contact Northwest analogue about the CB retip, but interested in if there are any other suggestions. Cheers Dan Oh DAN! You're about a week too late to snap up my now surplus Ortofon Vienna. Out of the options you've listed, I'd urge caution as they will all sound totally different to each other and completely different to your Caddy Bronze. I'd suggest sending that Caddy Bronze to Goldring (if they'll do it) for a retip with an FGS. At least that way it'll be fairly similar to what you know. Out of the others, I'd probably pick up a Lyra. They are very good carts IMO but I've not heard them. The Koetsu seems to have a synergy with the bb3 from what lurch has said, so that may be worth an investigate. I know! I did think that, but I just hadn’t had time to think properly about my next move prior to Xmas. Although I’m keen to try something different to Ortofon now, just because. I think I’m erring towards keeping my eyes peeled for a s/h low hours Koetsu BGL between now and the end of Jan and If nothing has presented itself by then I might go for the Lyra. To be honest if low hours BGLs can be had for <£700 per lurch then I could well get one as well if it pops up after purchasing something else. |
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 2, 2022 23:33:35 GMT
ZYX Ultimate 100 is definitely on the short list!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2022 1:46:31 GMT
Have a look at the Dynavector XX2 Mk2 as well.
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Post by antonio on Jan 3, 2022 7:29:04 GMT
I'll disagree with Cagey, don't go for the XX2 mk2, if you want a Dynavector go for the Karat 17D2.
I've stuck with Lyra since first purchasing a Clavis and have a Helikon which has been re-tipped, the only other cartridge I seriously considered was the Audio Technica ART9.
Have you heard the Cadenza Black? I heard a comparison between the Black and the Bronze, no comparison for me, the Black was head and shoulders above the Bronze. I mention this to give you an idea how I like my cartridges to sound.
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by dt79 on Jan 3, 2022 9:59:35 GMT
I'll disagree with Cagey, don't go for the XX2 mk2, if you want a Dynavector go for the Karat 17D2. I've stuck with Lyra since first purchasing a Clavis and have a Helikon which has been re-tipped, the only other cartridge I seriously considered was the Audio Technica ART9. Have you heard the Cadenza Black? I heard a comparison between the Black and the Bronze, no comparison for me, the Black was head and shoulders above the Bronze. I mention this to give you an idea how I like my cartridges to sound. Thanks. Do you know if the differences between Cadenza Bronze and Black are purely down to stylus/cantilever or if there are any internal differences. I’m just thinking that if I send it off for a retip I might as well upgrade the Cantilever at the same time and I could end up achieving Black spec or beyond (the DCS cantilever and FGS stylus from NWA as recommended by gninnam perhaps) |
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 3, 2022 10:13:11 GMT
Updated list of potentials is as follows. I’m going to set my budget at £1,500. I won’t say never, but right now i don’t think I can justify going up to £2K on a cartridge.
Lyra Delos
Hana ML
ZYX Ultimate 100
Dynavector Karat 17DX (DX seems to be the current model?)
Koetsu Black Goldline (second hand, if available)
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Post by karma67 on Jan 3, 2022 10:41:36 GMT
Updated list of potentials is as follows. I’m going to set my budget at £1,500. I won’t say never, but right now i don’t think I can justify going up to £2K on a cartridge. Lyra Delos Hana ML ZYX Ultimate 100 Dynavector Karat 17DX (DX seems to be the current model?) Koetsu Black Goldline (second hand, if available) trade the bronze in with ortofon and get a black is another option for you. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2022 10:45:10 GMT
I'll disagree with Cagey, don't go for the XX2 mk2, if you want a Dynavector go for the Karat 17D2. I've stuck with Lyra since first purchasing a Clavis and have a Helikon which has been re-tipped, the only other cartridge I seriously considered was the Audio Technica ART9. Have you heard the Cadenza Black? I heard a comparison between the Black and the Bronze, no comparison for me, the Black was head and shoulders above the Bronze. I mention this to give you an idea how I like my cartridges to sound.
Others tend to agree with me on this one.  Why would you take the Karat 17D3 over the XX2? I am interested to know your reasoning behind this. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 3, 2022 11:01:13 GMT
Updated list of potentials is as follows. I’m going to set my budget at £1,500. I won’t say never, but right now i don’t think I can justify going up to £2K on a cartridge. Lyra Delos Hana ML ZYX Ultimate 100 Dynavector Karat 17DX (DX seems to be the current model?) Koetsu Black Goldline (second hand, if available) trade the bronze in with ortofon and get a black is another option for you. Good shout. Hadn't thought of that. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 3, 2022 11:04:37 GMT
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 3, 2022 11:22:51 GMT
Updated list of potentials is as follows. I’m going to set my budget at £1,500. I won’t say never, but right now i don’t think I can justify going up to £2K on a cartridge. Lyra Delos Hana ML ZYX Ultimate 100 Dynavector Karat 17DX (DX seems to be the current model?) Koetsu Black Goldline (second hand, if available) trade the bronze in with ortofon and get a black is another option for you. What is it you get off the price, 30%? It’s definitely an option, but I feel as if for not much more money i could get a new cartridge and get the Bronze retipped with cantilever upgrade. |
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Post by pete on Jan 3, 2022 12:26:39 GMT
About 100 hours use, not very clear pictures though |
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dt79
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Posts: 343
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Post by dt79 on Jan 3, 2022 15:38:00 GMT
About 100 hours use, not very clear pictures though This is what always makes me nervous. Unless from a trusted source, how do you have confidence in the hours stated, especially with no good pictures to back it up. |
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Post by antonio on Jan 3, 2022 15:51:00 GMT
I'll disagree with Cagey, don't go for the XX2 mk2, if you want a Dynavector go for the Karat 17D2. I've stuck with Lyra since first purchasing a Clavis and have a Helikon which has been re-tipped, the only other cartridge I seriously considered was the Audio Technica ART9. Have you heard the Cadenza Black? I heard a comparison between the Black and the Bronze, no comparison for me, the Black was head and shoulders above the Bronze. I mention this to give you an idea how I like my cartridges to sound.
Others tend to agree with me on this one. Why would you take the Karat 17D3 over the XX2? I am interested to know your reasoning behind this. When I had an XX2 on Roksan X, it sounded ok, but nothing to get exited about, the Karat is leaner, quicker, more detailed in my opinion having heard on on a friends tt. |
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Post by antonio on Jan 3, 2022 16:04:11 GMT
I'll disagree with Cagey, don't go for the XX2 mk2, if you want a Dynavector go for the Karat 17D2. I've stuck with Lyra since first purchasing a Clavis and have a Helikon which has been re-tipped, the only other cartridge I seriously considered was the Audio Technica ART9. Have you heard the Cadenza Black? I heard a comparison between the Black and the Bronze, no comparison for me, the Black was head and shoulders above the Bronze. I mention this to give you an idea how I like my cartridges to sound.
Others tend to agree with me on this one. Why would you take the Karat 17D3 over the XX2? I am interested to know your reasoning behind this. Who are these 'others'? |
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Post by pete on Jan 3, 2022 16:08:57 GMT
About 100 hours use, not very clear pictures though This is what always makes me nervous. Unless from a trusted source, how do you have confidence in the hours stated, especially with no good pictures to back it up. Completely agree, it is a massive gamble. Also, when you add import charges, and postage, you will have to add about 300 Euro to the cost. Not a gamble I would feel confident in for the benefit, saving not much better than a trade in of an old cartridge against new. |
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 3, 2022 16:09:41 GMT
Anyone know why Dynavector sell two LOMC cartridges which are so close together in price and what the intended differentiation is? Judging by recommendations (one a piece) and reviews (both strong) I should shortlist them both.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2022 16:42:10 GMT
I think the Karat has recently gone up in price more than the XX2. There used to be a bigger difference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2022 16:43:16 GMT
XX2 or 17D3?
Others tend to agree with me on this one. Why would you take the Karat 17D3 over the XX2? I am interested to know your reasoning behind this. Who are these 'others'? Click on the ink in my post. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2022 16:45:51 GMT
At this price point, you have a lot of choice, so you really need to hear them to see what suits your personal taste the best.
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jan 3, 2022 18:06:55 GMT
At this price point, you have a lot of choice, so you really need to hear them to see what suits your personal taste the best. That’s the difficulty, how do I hear all these contenders? When I got my Cadenza Bronze, Analogue Seduction let me get it on a trial basis, but I can’t see them or any other retailer letting me take several and mull it over for weeks before sending all but one back. Even if I found people in possession of each of these cartridges, I could probably only hear them in a range of unfamiliar systems. Got a reply (not expected on a BH!) from NWA. Looks like FGS retip is £650 and DHC cantilever/FGS tip is £850. That’s a little more then I was expecting, so it makes trading the CBr in against a new Cbl look a little more attractive… At the cost I don’t think I can justify both upgrading the CBr and buying a new cartridge right now, so i think the options are (in my rough order of preference): 1) Buy a new cartridge now (front runners being Lyra Delos and ZYX Ultimate 100 from what I’ve read) and look at upgrading the CBr (might as well go the whole hog with the DHC cantilever and FGS tip) in a year’s time. This is the most interesting option. 2) Trade the CBr in against a CBl and cross this same bridge in 2 years time. This is the safest option as I’m practically guaranteed to like the CBl given that I already like the CBr, but I’ve always gravitated towards what i know with Ortofon so I’d like to be a little more adventurous! 3) Sell the CBr and go for one of the more expensive cartridges (Zephyr Star, Black Goldline, no doubt others worthy of consideration at this price point). |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 3, 2022 18:40:39 GMT
At this price point, you have a lot of choice, so you really need to hear them to see what suits your personal taste the best. That’s the difficulty, how do I hear all these contenders? When I got my Cadenza Bronze, Analogue Seduction let me get it on a trial basis, but I can’t see them or any other retailer letting me take several and mull it over for weeks before sending all but one back. Even if I found people in possession of each of these cartridges, I could probably only hear them in a range of unfamiliar systems. Got a reply (not expected on a BH!) from NWA. Looks like FGS retip is £650 and DHC cantilever/FGS tip is £850. That’s a little more then I was expecting, so it makes trading the CBr in against a new Cbl look a little more attractive… At the cost I don’t think I can justify both upgrading the CBr and buying a new cartridge right now, so i think the options are (in my rough order of preference): 1) Buy a new cartridge now (front runners being Lyra Delos and ZYX Ultimate 100 from what I’ve read) and look at upgrading the CBr (might as well go the whole hog with the DHC cantilever and FGS tip) in a year’s time. This is the most interesting option. 2) Trade the CBr in against a CBl and cross this same bridge in 2 years time. This is the safest option as I’m practically guaranteed to like the CBl given that I already like the CBr, but I’ve always gravitated towards what i know with Ortofon so I’d like to be a little more adventurous! 3) Sell the CBr and go for one of the more expensive cartridges (Zephyr Star, Black Goldline, no doubt others worthy of consideration at this price point). Please excuse my language, but the "Dominic Harper Cantilever" means absolutely F#ck all to anyone. Personally, i wouldn't be paying NWA £600+ for a retip and cantilever replacement without knowing exactly how that material thats "more durable than ruby/saphire/Alu" is made (quoting from elsewhere) and EXACTLY what material it is, coz i would bet heavily that its bought in from somewhere else premade and sold on at a hefty profit under the well known act of "smoke and mirrors" "durable" to me means less likely to break or less brittle. That also means that it will likely be softer than the aforementioned cantiliver types and considering the more expensive carts out there all mostly use Boron....it seems like a move backwards to me. But i am no cartridge expert. NOTE: I am not saying it won't be better, or worse...just that it will be different. That will affect resale value big time. For me, the options are very clear. Buy a new cartridge and sell the Caddy for spares or repairs. You'll get £300-400+ for it and that will put you in the £1.8-2k region (existing £1.5k budget + Sale of CB) Then you can buy something nice from ZYX/Lyra! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 3, 2022 18:49:25 GMT
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