Valve Amps: Where do you stand

You’re a lucky guy, Shane. You get to enjoy your own journey and your father’s too. That sort of kit will be a rare experience.

My first post.
Valve amps? Well I use a full valve system apart from my phono stage.


I use an Audio Research SP 16L Pre.
Opera Consonance Cyber 800 6CA7 Mono Blocks
Line Magnetic 211Ia
Jolida JD 100 CDP
Musical Fidelity XDAC V8.
Meng 6pi Mini amp as a headphone amp; chucked the Chinese valves, fitted Russian military ones, cleaned up the soldering, washed all the flux off the boards, Put in better resistors and coupling caps. Left the circuit alone.

All of these have never given a moments problems have been using them all for 10 plus years.
I did lend the Mono blocks to a friend, who let his crazy girl friend loose on them, stupid thing pumped movies on them till she cooked two power valves.
That being said the amps were second hand and I had never changed the valves so who knows how many hours they had on them.
I live in a hot climate and I do run fans on them, the noise does not bother me as I certainly do not like music soft.
Power Amps get no hotter than 50 degrees C without the fans, which is well within acceptable limits, and no hotter than a Class A solid State amp.
Which just so happens to be my favored type of solid state amp sound wise. I use the fans to extend valve life and it certainly has paid off.
A OTL valve amp is a beast from hell heat wise no thanks.

How do I compare valve to solid state; well to be absolutely honest not much in it, the valve set up does seem at least to my ear have an edge in mid range and top end extension and the bass is not lacking in any respect.
I do have to add that run of the mill Solid State amps do come up severely lacking.
Just as a some valve amps will leave you wanting there are some horrible examples of both out there.

A good organic solid state amp does not come cheap and most valve amps in the same league are just as expensive.
I do not play around and box swap. I know what type of music reproduction I prefer and I tune my system around what I like which is not everybody's cup of tea.

A good modern Valve amp is dog reliable and sounds more solid state than the warm wooly slow valve amps of old.
There are so many different takes of both designs and of both there are enough options to please every ear.
Blanket statements that one is better than the other, is purely subjective.
I will however say in my opinion a good valve pre amp is very hard to beat, even when I was using solid state pre and power. My first valve purchase was the pre and it was a revelation at least to my ear. I picked up the Audio Research pre as a demo, when the local distributor closed up for the price of a Rotel or Nad pre.

Speaker matching to amp is very important if the speaker is a devil to drive then stay away from valves unless you are a very rich man and can afford big Audio Research or such like. That being said a solid state amp in the same league is just as pricey. And the hard to drive speakers will make a meal of run of the mill solid state.

Class D amps well the good ones are very good, just they seem to have mid range glare that I find very annoying after a long listening session.
Plus their longevity comes into question due to the use of IC's. IC blows----- IC unavailable---- amp = door stop. Most if not all modern Solid State amps have IC's as well.
Another reason I like point to point wired up valve amps with not an IC in sight, the thing is repairable like vintage solid state as long as it does not have some fancy one off component in it. My 70's Kenwood and Teac amps have all components in them that are still readily available. No AVR is going to be repairable in 50 years time.

I like easy to drive speakers, with a stable impedance curve that does not drop below 4 Ohms they are much kinder to amps.
Am currently using a DIY speaker called a Cornscala "D" it is a rather large 2 way 15 inch horn 100 db efficient.
When I built these I thought an SET amp would be the answer. Have a friend who has a high end Hi Fi business so he kindly loaned me a good selection of different SET valve amps to demo on my speakers. 300B's 845's 2A3's of different makes, circuit designs, and prices, I did not like any of them, despite all the hype.
I also use Klipsch KG4's with the Line Magnetic
Just like the Push Pull amp sound gutsy fast dynamic.
Even the Line Magnetic in 12 W Triode mode sounds much better to me on both speakers, than any of the rather expensive SET amps.
This rather special amp is so close to the pre power combo in every respect, the only difference is that the pre power is just a sweeter sounding combo.

Tube rolling? Tried it. NOS valves are hellish expensive, and to be quite honest none of the NOS valves I have tried in any of my equipment has been a significant improvement over the stock valves.  Price performance ratio does just not add up.  I feel on a power amp it is a waste of money, on a pre amp, then that might be worth the effort and expense.  Exception being the lousy cheap Chinese valves in the Meng.
The Russian valves in the Meng were not pricy. The NOS input valves were very expensive and the cost to performance ratio was just not worth it, will not make that mistake again.
NOS Power valves? A complete waste of money imo, made no discernible difference to me. I stick to the valve type and make the amp came with.
So there you go my take on both I would have no problem changing out my valve power amps for a Pass Labs class A amp if I could afford it.
All my amps were bought second hand apart from the Line Magnetic at very affordable prices second hand, stuff here goes for a relative song.

NVA A80 MK1
Got to be tons better than a set of ancient Sh#t valve amps with a reputation above their ability (DSJR)


Now Dave precisely which ancient Sh#t valve amps are you alluding to ?

I sold my A80 mk1 for £450. £600 sounds on the high side for mk1s. Mine sounded crap to me and I was rid of them in very short order. YMMV. Not sure how they have appeared on a thread about valve amps though.

Lemos mentioned Line Magnetic further up. They are well liked in the US and I’d love to hear one. Many Sonneteer fans like them which also makes me curious.

I’ve had so many different “sounds” from valve (and SS for that matter) it’s hard to identify a valve “sound”. The best valve amps seem to have a more believable sense of space and higher level of clarity, None have had sledgehammer bass but I won’t conclude this is a trait of valves because my budget has kept me to amps 35w and under. No SS amp at att rating has had sledgehammer bass either,

I've done the valve amp 'thing' (Border Patrol valve power amp from 2005-2013). In the end I decided I couldn't be doing with the faff of re-biasing and the cost of eventually replacing valves. Bringing a solid-state power amp back into the system made me realise the downside of valve amps (slight 'softness' in the bass) and the downside of solid-state (slightly less 'flow' to the music). But as with all things hifi there's no such thing as a perfect amp; it's all about deciding which compromises you can live with.

Even though I have some valves in my system I do not have a lot of experience of full valve systems and we all have our own ideas but I tend to try to value my system on concert listening , I pursue fidelity and although valves can sound lush etc I do not equate valves with high fidelity. Having said that,this is also first of all about personal enjoyment,so stuff my opinion anyway!

Your post makes a lot of sense that I can relate to, My reference to concerts was nothing to do with loudness or volume  of music  but more to do with musical truth.

It was classical concerts you meant though? Apologies if my assumption on that was wrong too. I have never thought of rock concerts in such a way, but I guess it depends on what individuals are after.

My only real experience of live classical music was Mary Chaplin Carpenter backed by a full orchestra. Even though I’m not a classical fan, it was quite an experience.

If that’s what you are after I’d say an OTL would be right up your street.

Yep, I’ve heard plenty valve based systems sounding great with no bass issues, I still love good valve amps and miss owning one.

A Radford or maybe a Tube Distinctions copper amp would probably do you Ollie. They are the only two valve amps I'd seriously consider as they don't have any of that 'valvey' colouration which some people love but puts the same character on everything you play. Although Radford does have a little bit of character.


I'd say most solid state amps are tat but I'd say most valve amps are also tat but with a higher price tag. I've heard some right rubbish over the years without them even having that 'golden glow' around the sound that at least gives you something back.


And like DvH I can't be arsed with the hassle and expense of replacing valves.


Cannot really think of anything I'd swap my Krell for except a better Krell It gets the harmonics right, as do the Radfords and the TDs. Most amps don't whatever the power device they use.

IME it’s not just about the era or ease of drive of a speaker. Some speakers just seem to work with valves, Snell would be a good example. They also work well with SS incidentally but they will let you hear the best assets of valve amps.

I’ve owned Krell, Bryson, Aragon, Bedini etc alongside valves and there are things the SS amps are weak on in comparison to even modest valve amps. Openness, delicacy, space and perhaps even clarity are valve strengths afaic. There are also things SS amps do in terms of weight and drive which many valve amps don’t seem to do as well. It hasn’t been my experience that the better valve and solid state amps get, the closer they sound. I do think you can get examples of each breed that are closer to each other, but I don’t accept this is because they are better. I think such amps are a compromise.

A lot also depends on the pre-amp. The pre-amp will make or break a system IME. 

And then there is no escaping personal taste. We are not all looking for the same sound. That always gets forgotten when people are 'ranking' kit. 

like all amps, good, excellent, average, bad, awful; cant make broad statements just because you have one valve amp and say it sounds worse than your AVR.
You listened to one valve amp it does not sound good, therefore they must all be the same sounding___________________Beep, wrong assumption.
AVr's sound dreadful to me will not go near one, multi channel amps are not my bag, power supplies not up to it. There are some exceptions but they cost.

Have heard valve amps and solid state amps that should both equally be utilised as boat anchors.

I use valve amps that are not valve sounding, AKA Quad II. Sound more solid state, fast, punchy, tight deep bass, but with better mid range clarity and top end extension than any solid state in the same price bracket. On my speakers at least, cant say for all speakers, to many broad statements and opinions on forums imo.

I use hi-efficiency speakers with 78w valve mono-blocks, they have the speed, punch, bass and head room on these speakers like an expensive 300w solid state, with the mid range openness and clarity, that is hard to find with solid state.

They have been dog reliable. I would avoid any valve amp over 100w just to many valves to much heat going to cost you big money down the line.

High efficiency speakers, and easy to drive speakers with a stable impedance curve eg Vandersteen not dropping bellow 4 Ohms, valve amps. Pig to drive speakers eg B&W 800 Big Tannoys, some of them drop to below 2 Ohm or there about, solid state, simple's.