Funk Firm - Houdini - Spamming and Scamming Warning

Er.....ok lol

Always amusing on the other channel.

It's not so much the negative review - as you rightly say one swallow doesn't make a summer. It's how he has been shut down, albeit because he had been rude to someone but how he'd been threatened with expulsion right off the bat is classic. How you were convinced to remove an absolutely legitimate set of digital rips was a bit harsh too - I'm still not convinced why the manufacturer is not happy with that method of the multitude hearing the difference.

I think its always difficult to give an impartial review/comment on a product when a) its been given to you b) you have recieved it at massive discount or c) it is on "long term" loan.

Try and find a bad review of anything in the Hifi press nowadays and its impossible and if a reviewer is challenged you are shut down as a forum nut.

Where money etc is involved then the truth is always skewered.

Spot on Jim, which is where my POV was when i heard all of the shenanigans going on with free samples and heavily discounted pieces, depending on how influential you were deemed to be. as it is, IMO the guy who they should have given a free on to was Kevin, as he has gone above and beyond to get some file samples out and may have actually redeemed it a little by virtue of being so open about his experiences.

Personally, i think a lot of people have been hugely put off by the marketing strategy and the claims "Matt" has been putting out there. The suggestion that it is the upgrade everyone needs has been flat out panned as bullshit, due to some findings which came to light over the past couple of weeks.

Funk have even admitted to throwing this out there without fully knowing how it may affect certain setups etc.

Matadono (Matt) left this little nugget on a forum - M**k has also noticed something quite interesting about the overall mass of our complete system that changes things. Something that we ourselves have missed (sic)

Then there is the suggestion that it may only work if your system is Budget level, because Hi-End setups dont need it.

Matadono left this on the same forum - We already know and have acknowledged that most of the gain is at the lower end with the more budget systems. As with all audio there is a diminishing return as you get closer to the (technically at least) better end of the market

I mean, according to Matodono admitting this Houdini is making a positive effect in your system is akin to admitting your system isn't technically good enough.

Obviously when you are launching a new product there will be things that pop up that you didn't expect. Such are the variables. We had it with the BB3, so i get it. But this Houdini was sat in a drawer for 18 years apparently?

I said from the start that something didn't feel right about the way they went about it and the more i read, the more i am convinced this was not a product that had been 18 years in the making.





a HUGE backtrack from the "ALL CONQUERING PERFORMANCE" statement put out on Facebook by AK only a few days before.

Okay cards on the table - you and Myles are suggesting that person who posted the negative review was banned for posting a negative review due to site revenue concerns. I can tell you 100% that is not the case.

If someone put up a negative review and didn't act like a child when people criticised it then they wouldn't be banned.

The fact that said negative review is still there on the thread for anyone/everyone to read is pretty clear evidence that your analysis is off the mark.

And actually it isn't entirely negative. He stated that there were subtle improvements, he just didn't think it was £300 worth of improvements. Fair enough. And he wanted fancier packaging and a proper instruction booklet (which was the part of the review that was criticised and caused the issue).

PFM had to remove needledrops due to pressure from Google. PFM is a big forum and gets noticed. Smaller places you can get away with it. As far as I'm aware there was no such issue on AoS. But fair use doesn't come into it in the UK, the copyright law is pretty clear. You can't copy music for any purpose.

As far as trade fees go, trade fee on AoS is fifty quid for a year. Not thousands like on some forums, if Funk were to walk away then that's fifty quid lost. Oh no! I'd put that in out of my own pocket rather than be held hostage by a manufacturer - and so would Marco.

I notice people are happy to link to Six Moons reviews where all reviews have to be paid for - and they're not cheap either. People also link to Youtube reviewers like Darko without a second thought when they are really just advertisements for the products. These people are making their living from reviewing on Youtube. bad reviews mean no more free product for review- which means no more reviews and no income, then it's time to get a proper job. Not a consideration on AoS.

Here is my post,

What you have to keep in mind, and also be aware of is this:

When forums have "Paying" members, the owners of those forums then have an onus to protect that income. If a brand or manufacturer is getting hammered on a forum on which they pay to be a trade member, they will not return for next years fee. The forum owners do not want that to happen!

This is where forums are going wrong IMO.

Trade accounts have always existed, and the understanding of certain protections from negativity has long been in place, but the water is muddied somewhat further when some of the membership have also "paid" to play too, by making donations.

IMO, if you want a thoroughly transparent forum, you have to keep things free and impartial.

The tactics used on multiple forums to remove these rips all happpened at the same time, so you can bet safely knowing that this was a deliberate move, most likely caused by the Houdini manufacturer kicking off.

There have been no complaints from Proboards, Google or anyone else about the rips being put up here and believe me, Proboards are Sh#t hot when it comes to breaches of policy, of which file sharing is one of them

There is no mention of bannings, AoS, or any other particular forum from me, as that would be a breach of the rules here. My post was about how the relationship changes between a forum and a member when the member pays to be a member.

I see why you thought i was, as AoS had been mentioned previously, but as you can see from a later post of mine, the kind of incident i had in mind was on a different forum. My observation was one of a general outlook on ANY forum that accepts payment for trade space. It's not a criticism, it's an awareness that ones you accept money from someone, it becomes a business deal and therefore you have to maintain a certain type of relationship with them.

There are expectations from traders who pay money for accounts on forums. Thats a fact.

As for other forums not getting away with the needledrops because they are bigger, that may be true, but Proboards is bigger than all of them and believe me, when something is posted that is a breach of their terms, they are on to me within an hour.

Last time it was a picture of a nude woman holding an LP....it was posted at 20.48. They messaged me at 21.16 and told me to remove it or the forum would be closed in 24 hours and deleted in 48 if i didn't. They don't F#ck about.

My last word on the subject; I wouldn't fancy running a forum and I don't think I'd like to be a manufacturer flogging the latest new thing. It's not Matt and Arthur's fault that they are getting greater scrutiny - it's the fault of this hobby and the industry, with widespread shilling, snake oil and all-round shonky behaviour from all and sundry. It makes buying and selling equipment almost impossible.

The HiFI world was described to me earlier as "the Wild West"

It's not far wrong.

I didn't assume you were referring to AoS but by not mentioning any forum you tar all with the same brush. Myles did mention AoS. I responded only and specifically about AoS because that is the only case where I know the facts.

I only mentioned AoS when it had been revealed as the source by someone else. I contest the fact that the needle drops were taken down for any other reason but Arthur commenting that needle drops didn't convey the improvements, so were an unfair example. Marco chose to follow up that comment and Cagey offered to take them down. Nowhere were copyright issues mentioned - perhaps they should and then I wouldn't have picked up on it.

It appears I don't understand 'last comment on the matter'!

macca - "Okay cards on the table - you (Bigman80) and Myles are suggesting that person who posted the negative review (on AoS) was banned for posting a negative review due to site revenue concerns. I can tell you 100% that is not the case"

Well i am certainly not interested in falling out about it, but you specifically stated I had "suggested" something in your post, which as i explained i didn't do.

I'm not criticising forums for having paid up trade members at all! All i am doing is saying that the financial transaction changes the dynamic between trade member and forum, for reasons already explained elsewhere. And yes, i will tar all forums (with paid up trade members) with the same brush...because it's the same brush!

Is it true that when you have paid up members, they get different treatment to those who are there for free?

I know of a forum that gives paid up members more PM space, first look at classifieds, removes ads etc....and it's not AoS BTW

Now, if the gentleman at was being a Dickhead, cool....if not, cool. I dont read AoS so i don't know what happened...hence why i wasn't talking about that particular forum.

Anyway, lets crack on with discussing the Houdini, rather than forums!

Chill guys, it’s only HiFi.
We do this because we love music, and there are so many different ways to enjoy it....

Either you like what Houdini does, or you don’t.
It is that simple.

The marketing was OTT. They would have been better getting a few reviews out there, and let the product speak for itself.