Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2020 9:26:36 GMT
Admittedly, this is gonna be a group of 3 at the minute, lol. But, after a couple of days of listening to the Primaluna Prologue Five, I just can't fathom why this brand isn't in more systems. mikeyb said this to me the other day btw. He's absolutely bang on. Post your pics, thoughts, valve choices etc in this thread and let's get a bit of positivity out there for these beautiful machines. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2020 9:27:44 GMT
Currently residing in my system and creating a sound that I am very taken with, is this Prologue FIVE.       It's using the stock valves, but I'm struggling to find out who made them. I'm loving the KT88 "Sound" which is punchy and very clean. What valves are the "Grail" for this position? Anyone have any suggestions? I've also been looking for the Matsushita National Valves for the 12AU7 & 12AX7 positions, but don't seem to be able to find them.... any pointers would be very welcome. |
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Post by karma67 on Aug 28, 2020 9:46:30 GMT
Gec kt88’s are the top of the tree but I found the power tubes didn’t have much impact. The pre amp ones make the biggest difference.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2020 9:59:01 GMT
Gec kt88’s are the top of the tree but I found the power tubes didn’t have much impact. The pre amp ones make the biggest difference. Oh yes, I remember you buying them. Did you revert to the original ones you had? There are a few Russia equivalent valves, which get a good press but it's not exactly cheap to buy blindly. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2020 10:25:07 GMT
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Post by firebottle on Aug 28, 2020 11:45:15 GMT
It's using the stock valves, but I'm struggling to find out who made them. The monoblock advert suggests Genalex as the manufacturer. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2020 12:43:52 GMT
It's using the stock valves, but I'm struggling to find out who made them. The monoblock advert suggests Genalex as the manufacturer. Does it? Oh.......I'll have a look. |
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 28, 2020 16:22:32 GMT
my Prologue 5 soon after it arrived - with Edicron 6550WE valves installed. and with the JAN Philips input tubes it came with - they soon got swapped out! - and a duck. There's always a duck somewhere near.  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2020 16:35:27 GMT
my Prologue 5 soon after it arrived - with Edicron 6550WE valves installed. and with the JAN Philips input tubes it came with - they soon got swapped out! - and a duck. There's always a duck somewhere near. All valves out? |
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 28, 2020 16:42:09 GMT
and as currently fettled, with KT120 and TAD input tubes. The expansiveness of the KT120 and precision and detail of the TADs works very well for me. The valve cage has to rest on tippy-toes with the KT120 as they are a bit tall! Hmm, it's got a bit dusty while having a few months off!  |
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 28, 2020 17:02:32 GMT
... you might find that you get some of the "width" that you are missing if you try KT120, Oli.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2020 17:48:04 GMT
... you might find that you get some of the "width" that you are missing if you try KT120, Oli. I will definitely add them into the list of possibilities, Jerry. Just need to raise some funds to buy some. I'll be putting new valves in the 12AX7 AND 12AU7 Positions as soon as I can. |
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 28, 2020 17:59:31 GMT
As my PL is 'resting' would you like to borrow my KT120 quad and TAD input valves? PM me your address and I can get them off Tuesday.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2020 18:00:24 GMT
As my PL is 'resting' would you like to borrow my KT120 quad and TAD input valves? PM me your address and I can get them off Tuesday. That would be absolutely epic of you, Jerry. PM on the Way, You sir, are a gentleman |
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 28, 2020 18:14:13 GMT
No problem - I'll include the quad of TAD EL34 as well.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2020 18:19:45 GMT
No problem - I'll include the quad of TAD EL34 as well. Ho ho!......I'm going to be quite busy listening I think lol |
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 3, 2020 18:03:52 GMT
jandl100 A box of glass goodies arrived on my doorstep! Many thanks matey. I will do a spot of rolling and see what happens I have started with the Tung-Sol 120s but left the PrimaLuna branded input valves in place for now. 
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Post by karma67 on Sept 3, 2020 18:25:16 GMT
is your amp self biasing? if not you should really adjust the bias to suit different power tubes.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 3, 2020 18:26:35 GMT
is your amp self biasing? if not you should really adjust the bias to suit different power tubes. It is self biasing mate....I triple checked before chucking random valve in lol...! |
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Post by karma67 on Sept 3, 2020 18:27:55 GMT
is your amp self biasing? if not you should really adjust the bias to suit different power tubes. It is self biasing mate....I triple checked before chucking random valve in lol...! luxury! i have to turn my upside down and Sh#t myself every time i change tubes |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 3, 2020 18:29:15 GMT
It is self biasing mate....I triple checked before chucking random valve in lol...! luxury! i have to turn my upside down and Sh#t myself every time i change tubes Hahahaha... Yes, it's a great feature. Certainly one I was happy to read was Included! Cor, you need to catch up hahaha....just kidding. |
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 3, 2020 19:07:14 GMT
Fingers crossed they all survived the journey OK!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 3, 2020 20:28:50 GMT
Fingers crossed they all survived the journey OK! The KT120 seem to have survived! I'll try the rest over the weekend hopefully. |
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 4, 2020 4:48:09 GMT
Fab, they're the most important ones!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 4, 2020 17:16:21 GMT
Valve rolling impressions so far:
60 minutes warm up allowed prior to any listening.
First into the mix were the Tung-Sol KT120 & Primaluna 12AU7/AX7
It was pretty much an immediate feeling of the removal of any restriction. Hard to pin point it, but i hadn't realised quite how rigid the Primaluna KT88's had sounded. The 120's have a real ease and the music flows like gentle stream with the likes of Hans Theessink. Guitar twang has lessened somewhat and the leading edges feel a lot more subtle.
It reminds me a lot of the feeling i had when that little Chi-Fi valve amp was in the system.
Pushing things to a bit more of a test, i drop in some rock and like the little Chi-Fi valve amp, the bass is too soft. Rory Gallagher's - Calling Card is missing a gut load of impact, leading edge and LF detail, which has been replaced by thud.
HOWEVER that said, this sound bloody magnificent once you get the vocals going.
Time to mix it up a bit:
Tung-Sol KT120, 2x Tube Doctor 12AX7 & 2x Primaluna 12AU7
The Tube Doctor valves have added some bite! Rory Gallagher sounds a lot crisper, grittier and a little bit of leading edge has returned. Whats far more interesting is the sound is far more holographic than previously. Instrument separation front to back is now apparent and we have a bit of 3D imaging going on.
Bass has tightened up a bit too but it's so easy over do the LF in my room that literally any emphasis quickly takes over. I am not quite there with the LF detail either but it is much improved.
The Tung-SOL really have opened this amplifier up. Very impressed so far. I will give this combination a few more hours then get on to the next combination.
Next up:
Tung-SOL KT120 & Tube Doctor 12AX/AU7
As i tune into classic FM, at my sons request, i am just about to hear part of the soundtrack to ET....the motion picture...
Bloody hell.......this combination of valves is very adept at delivering scale and dramatics. It's epic. Feels a bit weird discussing classic FM, but it was a fantastic listen and spurred me on to try some of my less listened to material.
I played Manescas Costa - Antonia next.....Well i can only say that this is probably the best it has ever sounded....im serious. I genuinely feel like the DAC via the PL5 is now absolutely singing.
I continue to play all of Putumayo - Acoustic Africa, and i am left captivated at how organic it sounds, natural and easy to listen to. The imaging is very textured and the layers are very easy to distinguish. Tonally, i would still like a bit more of a snap to things as there is still a minor deficiency in the LF, but i thing Jerry has got the valve choices for this amnp pretty much spot on for the stuff i have been listening to tonight.
I am enjoying this immensely
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 4, 2020 21:46:00 GMT
It seems like you're appreciating similar merits to the valve choices to what I hear.
I'm mainly into classical so the wonders of bone crunching bass and slam are rather wasted on me, while the good points of the presentation you mention are where it's at for me.
It might be interesting for you to try a better kt88, ime the self-branded valves that most valve amp makers put into their products have few merits apart from increasing the profit margins.
Interesting your comments about the imaging abilities of the TAD valves ; that's what first attracted me to the marque. I was at a bake off and someone slipped a TAD 12ax7 into an amp and suddenly I was hearing spacious 3D. TAD is just a firm that selects from established Chinese brands, but I usually agree with their selection criteria! And yes I agree that they are nicely incisive as well. TAD are usually my first port of call when valve rolling.
Give the TAD EL34 a go and see what you think. Way better than the typical EL34 imo, I'm not usually a fan of that valve.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 5, 2020 7:24:03 GMT
It seems like you're appreciating similar merits to the valve choices to what I hear. I'm mainly into classical so the wonders of bone crunching bass and slam are rather wasted on me, while the good points of the presentation you mention are where it's at for me. It might be interesting for you to try a better kt88, ime the self-branded valves that most valve amp makers put into their products have few merits apart from increasing the profit margins. Interesting your comments about the imaging abilities of the TAD valves ; that's what first attracted me to the marque. I was at a bake off and someone slipped a TAD 12ax7 into an amp and suddenly I was hearing spacious 3D. TAD is just a firm that selects from established Chinese brands, but I usually agree with their selection criteria! And yes I agree that they are nicely incisive as well. TAD are usually my first port of call when valve rolling. Give the TAD EL34 a go and see what you think. Way better than the typical EL34 imo, I'm not usually a fan of that valve. The Amp seemed to come alive when classical music was played through it and the same with acoustic stuff. If they were my two main genres of music, I wouldn't hesitate to populate my PL5 with the same line up. I played a little more music before I had to relent for the kids to get some sleep, but I was blown away by the way the voices interacted when harmonising took place. The way the filled the room but remained under control was sublime. These are some seriously good valves in a seriously good valve amplifier. I think the KT88 are the way forward for me, at this point. I totally agree about the stock valves. The 88 don't stray too far from the type of bass I like and they retain just enough of the valve sound to keep me involved, however I am eager to see what some better quality valves would bring to the KT88 party. I'd probably go for Tung-Sol or Genalex in that position. I already have ideas for the input valves! |
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 5, 2020 8:33:29 GMT
So.... You're coming round to the idea that you have to tune your system for the particular genre of music you want to listen to?  Maybe there isn't such an animal as a one size fits all system? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 5, 2020 9:10:55 GMT
So.... You're coming round to the idea that you have to tune your system for the particular genre of music you want to listen to? Maybe there isn't such an animal as a one size fits all system? I definitely see the merit in the valve choices and the amplification whilst litstening to certain Genres, so yes...if that's what you listening mainly comprises of, then you'd naturally tune your system to get the maximum out of that material. I have no issues with that whatsoever, and I strongly suspect that your system has been done in that way, but what if you go from Nessun dorma to Hells bells to DJ Slipmat to Slipnot to gawd knows what else, Like I do? The system need to be able to everything well?....a jack of all trades, master on none I suppose. |
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Post by electronumpty on Sept 5, 2020 9:14:16 GMT
No, you need to buy more amps! 🤣
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