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Post by iceman16 on Sept 9, 2020 18:08:53 GMT
Thanks Oli. I wasn’t expecting an improvement (Eagles album)but it happened lol.. The Bb3 is just barely run in from new around 50 hrs. The Telefunkens are on their way so fingers crossed.  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 9, 2020 18:48:03 GMT
Thanks Oli. I wasn’t expecting an improvement (Eagles album)but it happened lol.. The Bb3 is just barely run in from new around 50 hrs. The Telefunkens are on their way so fingers crossed. Yes, 50hours is about 1/2 way to run in but you seem to be getting encouraging results from it. Well deducing from what you've posted about it. I am SO jealous about the Telefunken valves lol....they fill my heart and would with joy, everytime i hear them. I have Siemans Halske made Telefunkens, which are "the holy grail" blah blah blah....give me a set of original Teles anyday! |
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Post by iceman16 on Sept 9, 2020 18:58:21 GMT
Oli, If you happen to travel Southwest Wales you are more than welcome to visit me here in Swansea. You need to hear this humble system of mine lol..
J
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 9, 2020 20:04:30 GMT
Oli, If you happen to travel Southwest Wales you are more than welcome to visit me here in Swansea. You need to hear this humble system of mine lol.. J Jayson, At some point I am sure Swansea will be on my route of travel. When this happens, I will visit...100% |
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Post by iceman16 on Sept 9, 2020 20:17:51 GMT
Oli, If you happen to travel Southwest Wales you are more than welcome to visit me here in Swansea. You need to hear this humble system of mine lol.. J Jayson, At some point I am sure Swansea will be on my route of travel. When this happens, I will visit...100% Just let me know Oli. J |
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bigbird
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Post by bigbird on Sept 9, 2020 20:26:24 GMT
Have to agree about the HC album. I’ve gone through a few OGs now and they all sound a bit dull and lifeless . UK and AUS original I’ve settled on sound the best of the few I’ve heard but still underwhelm a little when I give it a spin. Another great album that was a casualty of poor mastering/engineering I think .
Content is superb though .
I struggle to see how original Teles would be MUCH better than the Siemens ones. They were made on exactly the same tooling Aquired by Siemens and moved to a different factory. Ones things for sure is they will all be fantastic so you’re infor a treat.
Have you bought a telefunken ecc83 for V2? This is the one 👌
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 9, 2020 20:46:56 GMT
Have to agree about the HC album. I’ve gone through a few OGs now and they all sound a bit dull and lifeless . UK and AUS original I’ve settled on sound the best of the few I’ve heard but still underwhelm a little when I give it a spin. Another great album that was a casualty of poor mastering/engineering I think . Content is superb though . I struggle to see how original Teles would be MUCH better than the Siemens ones. They were made on exactly the same tooling Aquired by Siemens and moved to a different factory. Ones things for sure is they will all be fantastic so you’re infor a treat. Have you bought a telefunken ecc83 for V2? This is the one 👌 It may be Psychological mate, but It grates on me that they aren't from the Telefunken factory, by Telefunken employees etc... There are people that pay more for these that we have than the originals. |
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Post by iceman16 on Sept 9, 2020 21:03:13 GMT
The Telefunken ecc803s nos are so bloody expensive and very rare lol |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 9, 2020 21:25:17 GMT
The Telefunken ecc803s nos are so bloody expensive and very rare lol Yes they are.....I can't believe I bought 4 ECC88 For £50 only a couple of years ago and now they are mega money |
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bigbird
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Post by bigbird on Sept 10, 2020 5:40:36 GMT
Have to agree about the HC album. I’ve gone through a few OGs now and they all sound a bit dull and lifeless . UK and AUS original I’ve settled on sound the best of the few I’ve heard but still underwhelm a little when I give it a spin. Another great album that was a casualty of poor mastering/engineering I think . Content is superb though . I struggle to see how original Teles would be MUCH better than the Siemens ones. They were made on exactly the same tooling Aquired by Siemens and moved to a different factory. Ones things for sure is they will all be fantastic so you’re infor a treat. Have you bought a telefunken ecc83 for V2? This is the one 👌 It may be Psychological mate, but It grates on me that they aren't from the Telefunken factory, by Telefunken employees etc... There are people that pay more for these that we have than the originals. Haha I only have to take one listen of the Siemens teles and all my doubts go away. Plus it leaves more money in the tank for other stuff. |
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bigbird
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Post by bigbird on Sept 10, 2020 5:42:50 GMT
The Telefunken ecc803s nos are so bloody expensive and very rare lol Yeah they are silly money mate. Just go for a standard Berlin Tele ECC83 from the 60s and your set for some serious performance. I paid about 75 quid for mine from tubestore.de on eBay a couple of months ago . His prices are reasonable and he legit |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 10, 2020 5:45:43 GMT
It may be Psychological mate, but It grates on me that they aren't from the Telefunken factory, by Telefunken employees etc... There are people that pay more for these that we have than the originals. Haha I only have to take one listen of the Siemens teles and all my doubts go away. Plus it leaves more money in the tank for other stuff. I haven't heard mine for weeks.......I still haven't got a BB3 myself! |
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Post by jimbo on Sept 10, 2020 5:54:49 GMT
Tubes have been rising in price for many years and Telefunkens have always been at the top especially as they have been eschewed by us audiophiles. Because of their price there are many fakes out there so it is always a case of buyer beware. The reason that Telefunkens sound better from certain periods and certain factories was not only the tooling and manufacturing quality but also the materials used. Like many tube companies they often had their own special blend of cathode or anode coatings which was key to their performance. This is why original Tesla valves from the Czech factories were the best and when they were bought out and after being resurrected by JJ they were not the same.
Personally I think there is certainly a big difference between good NOS valves from the best manufacturers in good condition, remember a lot are now past their sell by date and have poor measured performance, and new manufactured valves with technology in their coatings which is now allowed. I think there is a lot of mythology about which ones were the best and which ones sounded the best. Certainly by just looking at a tube it is very difficult to judge quality, it is only in the listening that they reveal their true nature but even then it is subjective.
I have been suprised in recent years to find some modern valves in certain applications can perform better than NOS. I have also heard cryo valves sounding better than their standard counterpart. Of course valve amp designers will also tell you that valves will also sound different depending on which part of the cicuit they are used in and how they are used. Mr Firebottle knows this more than anyone.
Like old malt whiskies they all have their own flavours and subtlties and although I have heard and rolled many including telefunkens I think their influence on the sound although noticeable may not be as large as we sometimes assume. Us audiofools like to bestow them with some magical reverence for many reasons but sometimes this only adds to their magical musical mythology and price!
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bigbird
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Post by bigbird on Sept 10, 2020 6:30:17 GMT
Tubes have been rising in price for many years and Telefunkens have always been at the top especially as they have been eschewed by us audiophiles. Because of their price there are many fakes out there so it is always a case of buyer beware. The reason that Telefunkens sound better from certain periods and certain factories was not only the tooling and manufacturing quality but also the materials used. Like many tube companies they often had their own special blend of cathode or anode coatings which was key to their performance. This is why original Tesla valves from the Czech factories were the best and when they were bought out and after being resurrected by JJ they were not the same. Personally I think there is certainly a big difference between good NOS valves from the best manufacturers in good condition, remember a lot are now past their sell by date and have poor measured performance, and new manufactured valves with technology in their coatings which is now allowed. I think there is a lot of mythology about which ones were the best and which ones sounded the best. Certainly by just looking at a tube it is very difficult to judge quality, it is only in the listening that they reveal their true nature but even then it is subjective. I have been suprised in recent years to find some modern valves in certain applications can perform better than NOS. I have also heard cryo valves sounding better than their standard counterpart. Of course valve amp designers will also tell you that valves will also sound different depending on which part of the cicuit they are used in and how they are used. Mr Firebottle knows this more than anyone. Like old malt whiskies they all have their own flavours and subtlties and although I have heard and rolled many including telefunkens I think their influence on the sound although noticeable may not be as large as we sometimes assume. Us audiofools like to bestow them with some magical reverence for many reasons but sometimes this only adds to their magical musical mythology and price! Spot on. Completely agree with all of that from my own experience mate. 50-60s RCA and telefunken I have are quite a bit better than everything I’ve tried including the modern JJs , and noticeably but more subtly better than the NOS 60s mullards, Sylvania ,Russian 62NP and edichrons I have . When playing around with all of the 60s variants I had they were ,as you say, more just a change of flavour. One was warmer, one was darker, one is thin and lean etc but not much in it really. When you drop the RCA or Tele in there is a clear step up |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 10, 2020 6:39:16 GMT
Tubes have been rising in price for many years and Telefunkens have always been at the top especially as they have been eschewed by us audiophiles. Because of their price there are many fakes out there so it is always a case of buyer beware. The reason that Telefunkens sound better from certain periods and certain factories was not only the tooling and manufacturing quality but also the materials used. Like many tube companies they often had their own special blend of cathode or anode coatings which was key to their performance. This is why original Tesla valves from the Czech factories were the best and when they were bought out and after being resurrected by JJ they were not the same. Personally I think there is certainly a big difference between good NOS valves from the best manufacturers in good condition, remember a lot are now past their sell by date and have poor measured performance, and new manufactured valves with technology in their coatings which is now allowed. I think there is a lot of mythology about which ones were the best and which ones sounded the best. Certainly by just looking at a tube it is very difficult to judge quality, it is only in the listening that they reveal their true nature but even then it is subjective. I have been suprised in recent years to find some modern valves in certain applications can perform better than NOS. I have also heard cryo valves sounding better than their standard counterpart. Of course valve amp designers will also tell you that valves will also sound different depending on which part of the cicuit they are used in and how they are used. Mr Firebottle knows this more than anyone. Like old malt whiskies they all have their own flavours and subtlties and although I have heard and rolled many including telefunkens I think their influence on the sound although noticeable may not be as large as we sometimes assume. Us audiofools like to bestow them with some magical reverence for many reasons but sometimes this only adds to their magical musical mythology and price! Normally, I would sit on the fence a wee bit on a subject like this, but nothing will change my mind about how pivotal valves are in the SQ of the equipment they are in. I still remember taking delivery of 4x PC88 Telefunkens for my (now Andy's) Firebottle Monoblocks whilst Alan and I were testing something in the system, I forget what. We were nearly done, but I threw a pair in before Alan left. The improvement in detail was 10 fold. We were stunned. Alan went home and bought 4 too. From that moment on, everything I had with valves in got Telefunkens. I agree about people preferring different valves, and rightly so but for me that moment was where my affinity started. Yes, I am on a bit of a NEW valve tangent at the moment, but that's because it appears very difficult to find *genuine* NOS Telefunkens without having to take out a second mortgage. If there was a cross-breed of the Tung-Sol and the Gold Lion, I think that would be as close to the real deal Tele as anything could be. Anyone know how to make valves? |
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Post by jimbo on Sept 10, 2020 7:37:53 GMT
I agree that they can make a difference hence why I use NOS valves in my equipment but they are not always that magic bullet. I have two telefunkens sitting in a box here and I am not impressed with them and indeed they are up for sale if anyone wants them. My experience with valves is a minefield and i have had many Tesla NOS valves some of which have been very average and some superb.
One occasion that did bring about the importance of using NOS valves in particular was the line stage valve in my Croft. Glenn had done some work on this and popped in a new JJ Tesla ECC99 and it was unbelievably terrible so much so I though my preamp was knackered. Spoke to Glenn and he suggested a NOS 12Bh7a. I bought 3 and the difference was astounding.
What I am saying is that you cannot automatically assume Telefunkens are the best because there are so many knackered ones out there and so many fakes.
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bigbird
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Post by bigbird on Sept 10, 2020 7:52:56 GMT
I agree that they can make a difference hence why I use NOS valves in my equipment but they are not always that magic bullet. I have two telefunkens sitting in a box here and I am not impressed with them and indeed they are up for sale if anyone wants them. My experience with valves is a minefield and i have had many Tesla NOS valves some of which have been very average and some superb. One occasion that did bring about the importance of using NOS valves in particular was the line stage valve in my Croft. Glenn had done some work on this and popped in a new JJ Tesla ECC99 and it was unbelievably terrible so much so I though my preamp was knackered. Spoke to Glenn and he suggested a NOS 12Bh7a. I bought 3 and the difference was astounding. What I am saying is that you cannot automatically assume Telefunkens are the best because there are so many knackered ones out there and so many fakes. Yes this is true so due diligence is important and finding trusted sellers that have ,measured, balanced ,matched and tested valves will give you a headstart. The 12bh7a is a stunning variant. I love mine . And as you say on the preamp linestage and monoblock input stage they are breathtaking. |
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Post by jimbo on Sept 10, 2020 7:56:28 GMT
I agree that they can make a difference hence why I use NOS valves in my equipment but they are not always that magic bullet. I have two telefunkens sitting in a box here and I am not impressed with them and indeed they are up for sale if anyone wants them. My experience with valves is a minefield and i have had many Tesla NOS valves some of which have been very average and some superb. One occasion that did bring about the importance of using NOS valves in particular was the line stage valve in my Croft. Glenn had done some work on this and popped in a new JJ Tesla ECC99 and it was unbelievably terrible so much so I though my preamp was knackered. Spoke to Glenn and he suggested a NOS 12Bh7a. I bought 3 and the difference was astounding. What I am saying is that you cannot automatically assume Telefunkens are the best because there are so many knackered ones out there and so many fakes. Yes this is true so due diligence is important and finding trusted sellers that have ,measured, balanced ,matched and tested valves will give you a headstart. The 12bh7a is a stunning variant. I love mine . And as you say on the preamp linestage and monoblock input stage they are breathtaking. Which ones do you use in your amps Karl. I am using a NOS Brimar in my linestage at the moment. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 10, 2020 8:11:40 GMT
I agree that they can make a difference hence why I use NOS valves in my equipment but they are not always that magic bullet. I have two telefunkens sitting in a box here and I am not impressed with them and indeed they are up for sale if anyone wants them. My experience with valves is a minefield and i have had many Tesla NOS valves some of which have been very average and some superb. One occasion that did bring about the importance of using NOS valves in particular was the line stage valve in my Croft. Glenn had done some work on this and popped in a new JJ Tesla ECC99 and it was unbelievably terrible so much so I though my preamp was knackered. Spoke to Glenn and he suggested a NOS 12Bh7a. I bought 3 and the difference was astounding. What I am saying is that you cannot automatically assume Telefunkens are the best because there are so many knackered ones out there and so many fakes. Yes, that's a very valid point Jim, But I am yet to hear a valve I prefer over a genuine NOS W.Germany Telefunken in mint condition, with emobossed Rhombus, wrapped in the original cellophane and hand delivered by the HiFI gods themselves  lol |
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bigbird
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Post by bigbird on Sept 10, 2020 8:12:26 GMT
Yes this is true so due diligence is important and finding trusted sellers that have ,measured, balanced ,matched and tested valves will give you a headstart. The 12bh7a is a stunning variant. I love mine . And as you say on the preamp linestage and monoblock input stage they are breathtaking. Which ones do you use in your amps Karl. I am using a NOS Brimar in my linestage at the moment. I’ve got NOS 1956 RCA black plates in all 3 sweetspots . Superb mate . I’ve heard great things about the brimar. What’s their presentation like |
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Post by jimbo on Sept 10, 2020 8:22:05 GMT
Which ones do you use in your amps Karl. I am using a NOS Brimar in my linestage at the moment. I’ve got NOS 1956 RCA black plates in all 3 sweetspots . Superb mate . I’ve heard great things about the brimar. What’s their presentation like NOS RCA 12BH7as are a fav of mine. The Brimar has a darker more earthy sound. I know the RCA are probably the most musical sweet sounding valves out there in that position. I need to get another! |
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bigbird
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Post by bigbird on Sept 10, 2020 9:20:51 GMT
I’ve got NOS 1956 RCA black plates in all 3 sweetspots . Superb mate . I’ve heard great things about the brimar. What’s their presentation like NOS RCA 12BH7as are a fav of mine. The Brimar has a darker more earthy sound. I know the RCA are probably the most musical sweet sounding valves out there in that position. I need to get another! They really are mate. Unfortunately another type that have skyrocketed pricewise . I got a pair for 75 quid. You’d only get one for that now |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2020 14:05:13 GMT
I agree that they can make a difference hence why I use NOS valves in my equipment but they are not always that magic bullet. I have two telefunkens sitting in a box here and I am not impressed with them and indeed they are up for sale if anyone wants them. My experience with valves is a minefield and i have had many Tesla NOS valves some of which have been very average and some superb. One occasion that did bring about the importance of using NOS valves in particular was the line stage valve in my Croft. Glenn had done some work on this and popped in a new JJ Tesla ECC99 and it was unbelievably terrible so much so I though my preamp was knackered. Spoke to Glenn and he suggested a NOS 12Bh7a. I bought 3 and the difference was astounding. What I am saying is that you cannot automatically assume Telefunkens are the best because there are so many knackered ones out there and so many fakes. Yes, that's a very valid point Jim, But I am yet to hear a valve I prefer over a genuine NOS W.Germany Telefunken in mint condition, with emobossed Rhombus, wrapped in the original cellophane and hand delivered by the HiFI gods themselves lol The real ones are getting harder to find, as people are starting to make very good fakes... |
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Post by iceman16 on Sept 11, 2020 12:20:25 GMT
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 11, 2020 12:38:58 GMT
IS there a Diamond on the bottom? Between the pins? Looks like the same one i have here, Siemens made Telefunfen on Telefunken machinery. If it has the diamond, pop it in and enjoy it... |
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Post by iceman16 on Sept 11, 2020 13:03:13 GMT
Oli, Not sure what you mean by diamond on the bottom lol.. but here’s the bottom pic  |
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Post by jimbo on Sept 11, 2020 13:22:33 GMT
Looking at the Pins I would say it is genuine, difficult to make them look that tarnished ? I cannot see diamond on bottom though.
I have some Telefunkens in the cupboard and will post a pic up later of the diamond but there rest of the valve looks like a fake!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 11, 2020 13:24:22 GMT
Oli, Not sure what you mean by diamond on the bottom lol.. but here’s the bottom pic No, that's a Siemans Halske made Telefunken..... exactly the same as mine....not a genuine Telefunken but as close to one as possible. They are in fact more sought after than the originals....you've actually done very well there lol |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 11, 2020 13:32:02 GMT
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 11, 2020 13:34:49 GMT
Here is a genuine Telefunken made Getter....only Telefunken made them this way and this is the only real way of knowing whether a Telefunken is a genuine one made at the Munich/Ulm factory  Here is the way Siemens do theirs. It's of very little consequence to the sound and as I said, the Siemens version is just as sought after I pair about £120 for two? IIRC  |
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