Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 28, 2022 18:10:52 GMT
No worries. It can be tricky to be definite about what you're hearing so best to take your time. Will enjoy reading a good cable post though. Very tricky with cables as they can change considerably from new as you know and although I was joking about 100 hour burn in I think this is about right so it maybe sometime to make a decision on one of those in the picture. I heard a cable I had from Steve (megabucks price) and it did my head in trying to nail it down as it completely changed its character from one day to the next. Thought there was something wrong with my system at the time but double checked all was OK? Like cartridges and speakers - bits of wire are tricky suckers to evaluate until you have had them in your system for a good while at least in my humble experience. Yeah, 100% agree, Cables need some time. |
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Post by stevew on Feb 28, 2022 19:05:58 GMT
Well.. this is interesting
The Douk U2 Pro arrived on Sunday.
Tricky time as I’m painting the man cave.. but have left the system intact but covered in polythene dust sheets, but at least access round the back of everything is easier.
Frustrated initially by Roon failing to recognise the Douk. Disappointed because I had read a thread on Head Fi that a guy had it working with Roon.
Anyway decided I’d had enough of painting and started pratting around on my Mac mini with a legacy version of Audirvana. This is in a roll top desk working via WiFi in the dining room.. so not ideal.
So I used my Chord Mojo into the Douk (optical) and then line out into a Dali Katch speaker.
However .. deep joy, it worked a treat.
Then tried Roon through the Mac Mini, and that worked a treat into the Douk also.
Now I’ve found a way of making it work I’ll experiment further. A real success would be to get Roon playing through the Douk and then into the Mutec and then into the Denafrips Dac in the main system.
I may have to rig up the Mac mini into my main system to compare or get this particular daisy chain to work.
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optical
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Post by optical on Feb 28, 2022 19:29:47 GMT
Well.. this is interesting The Douk U2 Pro arrived on Sunday. Tricky time as I’m painting the man cave.. but have left the system intact but covered in polythene dust sheets, but at least access round the back of everything is easier. Frustrated initially by Roon failing to recognise the Douk. Disappointed because I had read a thread on Head Fi that a guy had it working with Roon. Anyway decided I’d had enough of painting and started pratting around on my Mac mini with a legacy version of Audirvana. This is in a roll top desk working via WiFi in the dining room.. so not ideal. So I used my Chord Mojo into the Douk (optical) and then line out into a Dali Katch speaker. However .. deep joy, it worked a treat. Then tried Roon through the Mac Mini, and that worked a treat into the Douk also. Now I’ve found a way of making it work I’ll experiment further. A real success would be to get Roon playing through the Douk and then into the Mutec and then into the Denafrips Dac in the main system. I may have to rig up the Mac mini into my main system to compare or get this particular daisy chain to work. Great work, sounds like you're getting somewhere. I don't mind the swapping around of boxes and cables but I can't stand the rigmarole of getting devices to 'recognise' other devices then there's drivers etc etc. A necessary evil in a lot of setups though so I doth my cap to those whom manage to conquer it regularly. Like I say, I gave up when I started messing around with latency and buffer settings between computer/DAC etc. I leave all that up to the dedicated streamer now, think I'd be out of my comfort zone going back. Let us know if/how you get on with daisy chaining (presumably into the Mutecs USB input?). |
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Post by jimbo on Feb 28, 2022 20:12:06 GMT
Well.. this is interesting The Douk U2 Pro arrived on Sunday. Tricky time as I’m painting the man cave.. but have left the system intact but covered in polythene dust sheets, but at least access round the back of everything is easier. Frustrated initially by Roon failing to recognise the Douk. Disappointed because I had read a thread on Head Fi that a guy had it working with Roon. Anyway decided I’d had enough of painting and started pratting around on my Mac mini with a legacy version of Audirvana. This is in a roll top desk working via WiFi in the dining room.. so not ideal. So I used my Chord Mojo into the Douk (optical) and then line out into a Dali Katch speaker. However .. deep joy, it worked a treat. Then tried Roon through the Mac Mini, and that worked a treat into the Douk also. Now I’ve found a way of making it work I’ll experiment further. A real success would be to get Roon playing through the Douk and then into the Mutec and then into the Denafrips Dac in the main system. I may have to rig up the Mac mini into my main system to compare or get this particular daisy chain to work. Good work there Steve and congratulations getting it working. Forgot to say it needed drivers for Windows applications but fine on Mac stuff. So you are daisy chaining via Douk first then into Mutec. Interesting. Not possible the other way round anyway I fear. But will be fascinated to hear your observations either comparison of the Douk vs Mutec and then the Douk daisy chained Mutec vs Mutec? Should work just fine with the Mac mini. |
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Post by jimbo on Feb 28, 2022 20:13:46 GMT
Audirvana on my Mac recognises the Douk U2 Pro as a DSD device.
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JimBlog
Feb 28, 2022 20:34:05 GMT
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Post by stevew on Feb 28, 2022 20:34:05 GMT
Well.. this is interesting The Douk U2 Pro arrived on Sunday. Tricky time as I’m painting the man cave.. but have left the system intact but covered in polythene dust sheets, but at least access round the back of everything is easier. Frustrated initially by Roon failing to recognise the Douk. Disappointed because I had read a thread on Head Fi that a guy had it working with Roon. Anyway decided I’d had enough of painting and started pratting around on my Mac mini with a legacy version of Audirvana. This is in a roll top desk working via WiFi in the dining room.. so not ideal. So I used my Chord Mojo into the Douk (optical) and then line out into a Dali Katch speaker. However .. deep joy, it worked a treat. Then tried Roon through the Mac Mini, and that worked a treat into the Douk also. Now I’ve found a way of making it work I’ll experiment further. A real success would be to get Roon playing through the Douk and then into the Mutec and then into the Denafrips Dac in the main system. I may have to rig up the Mac mini into my main system to compare or get this particular daisy chain to work. Good work there Steve and congratulations getting it working. Forgot to say it needed drivers for Windows applications but fine on Mac stuff. So you are daisy chaining via Douk first then into Mutec. Interesting. Not possible the other way round anyway I fear. But will be fascinated to hear your observations either comparison of the Douk vs Mutec and then the Douk daisy chained Mutec vs Mutec? Should work just fine with the Mac mini. Well.. the goal is to go from the SOtM usb into the Douk. Then out of the Douk via optical or I have an rca/ bnc cables into the Mutec. The trouble is I’m streaming Roon through the SOtM streamer and it’s simply not recognising the Douk. Even if I could remember how to switch inputs on the Mutec. I’m not too worried about it.. but it would be a top result if I could figure it out. An alternative would be to use Audirvana through the SOtM.. but I don’t really want to move away from Roon even if the alternative works. However. .. let’s see. |
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Post by antonio on Mar 1, 2022 2:40:14 GMT
Good luck.
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Post by jimbo on Mar 2, 2022 19:21:29 GMT
How are you getting on with the Douk U2 Pro Steve?
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Post by stevew on Mar 2, 2022 21:06:37 GMT
Hell yeah. What an amazing bit of kit.
What’s really impressed me is using it from my iPhone (with a lightening camera USB adapter) into the Douk and the chord Mojo using some oppo headphones. I swear it actually made my ears flap.
I’ve managed to get Roon working in it through my SOtM streamer.. so top result. This was then fed straight into my Denafrips Ares. Absolutely amazing quality. On first listen I was almost convinced that it matched the Mutec. However when I switched back I really heard how much more musical the Mutec was .. providing micro detail and ambiance.
It’s not a massive difference though.. and slightly shocking when you think that the Douk is £59.99 del from Amazon.
Have tried getting the Douk to play nicely into the Mutec. Oddly the Mutec showed it had locked onto a signal.. but no noise yet.
I’ll have to keep trying
Terrific recommendation though Jimbo.
Well done
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Post by jimbo on Mar 3, 2022 7:07:50 GMT
Excellent Steve and glad it has given you some good results. I know that some of the chaps on Head fi have used this with the Denafrips Ares with great results.
Not bad for £59.99?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 4, 2022 17:51:05 GMT
A Triple Cable review.Dare I put a cable review up on a forum that has so many cable specialists, I'm not sure? Sometime back I needed another IC cable as I was short of one for my DAC. So a friend of mine kindly put one together after we had discussed a few possibilities. I tried a few combinations of plugs and cable and found that the plug build/material and quality seemed more important than the cable. Of course a great cable and a great set of RCA plugs should make a fantastic cable but I found without spending months of evaluating that quality plugs were more important than the quality of cable. Other may beg to disagree. The cable I ended up with consists of KLE Innovations classic Harmony RCA plugs and some Van Damme Quad Core cable. I did try other cables from other manufacturers but the Van Damme just worked. However if you go to the Van Damme site you will find a huge selection of cables and most are categorised for their end use. I ignored this. I ignored cable construction and technical specifications and went with a cable that on paper did not seem suitable Maybe I got lucky and hit on a combination which just worked , I don’t know, but trying this cable in my system has worked extremely well. However this is in my system with my kit and in a specific role. I tried it as an IC between my turntable and preamp and it faired less well, but the connection from my DAC to amp was great. I presume the electrical properties sending a signal from a turntable rather than from a DAC are quite different? How does the cable sound or what does it allow other parts of the system to sound like? Overall it is a very balanced cable that does not favour or mask anything in particular. It is fairly neutral although in absolute terms it is a bit shy in tonality when I used it with my turntable. Here the Spotfire remains. However as a cable in my digital system I could not be more happy. The weight and heft in the bass is superb. I have some electronic material with some heavy sub bass and this cable just delivers a room shuddering performance. At the top end treble is sweet and not at all bright. Detail is multi layered and soundstage depth and width is very impressive. Imaging is precise and air and space in recordings is noticeable. What more can I say - I like it a lot and for the money it is an absolute no brainer. The cable may not be manufactured from the most pure copper and the plugs maybe not the absolute best but as a budget cable it is very good indeed. It sounded better than some well known branded cables I have here which are twice the price. However this was not the end of the story as at the 11th hour another cable turned up…... I had been offered the trial of a SEAC PC Triple C cable with KLE Copper Harmony plugs. This was a new cable so needed some time on it before I could get a handle on its performance. When I first plugged it in there was a great amount of clarity and transparency especial at the top end but bass was slightly lacking. On a second listen the cable swung round and the clarity rounded down a notch and the Bass fleshed out. After a good deal of time in my system I decided that the Triple C was indeed a very good cable with a clear transparent midrange and top end. It sounded natural and highly involving and projected an image slightly forward into the room. You felt you were among the performers. Bass was very well defined and controlled. Mmmm… so after a while I swapped back to my Spotfire cable to judge a comparison. Immediately I noticed more air and space and deeper soundstage with the performance coming from between and a little behind the speakers. This is my preferred acoustic presentation as I don’t want to be too close to the performance. The width of the soundstage was huge and very well defined. When I switched back to the Triple C I noticed it had a big soundstage but where it sat with my speakers was more forward. One aspect of the Triple C that bothered me was its dry nature and this has remained constant even though other aspects of the cable changed. I know this sounds weird but I have found this before with gear. They can sound either wet or dry and the Triple C was definitely dry. By this I mean it was probably neutral and did not burnish the sound or add any lustre. Everything just stopped and started on a pin with absolute control. I would say the Spotfire cable had a touch more air and sounded a little brighter in the top end, it also engaged me better with the music and the performers. I never really question whether one is right or wrong, just what I prefer and what works in my system. At the moment the Spotfire remains as my cable of choice between turntable and preamp and the Van Damme quad core stays as my digital cable. I will however run the Triple C for another week and see if anything makes me change my mind! Well well well. I didn't expect that result when you mentioned the PC-CCC! Can I let you into a little secret? If you put MPS plugs on that PC-TRIPLE C, it behaves a lot more like the Spotfire in terms of air, space and depth. I have tried KLE copper Harmony's on PC-CCC and as you say, they do become dry, and In my system they made the soundstage smaller! Very much Concentrated in a beach ball sized image. It was a very odd sensation. I put on some WBT's and the soundstage improved. I then put WBT sockets in the system and that soundstage grew significantly to match the MPS plugged experience, whilst retaining that touch if dryness and forensic resolution I am now very addicted to. I haven't got any Spotfire cables anymore, what a shame. They were fantastic cables though. |
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Post by firebottle on Mar 4, 2022 18:05:14 GMT
I've a pair of Spotfires if you want to compare.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 4, 2022 18:21:42 GMT
It was not the soundstage, space or air that bothered me particularly with the Triple C it was its dry nature. I suppose you could call it controlled or neutral even though it does have great resolution. This is not my preference in audio as you know. Lots of other gear has spun its way out of my room that exhibits this type of sound presentation. Yeah I understand what you're saying. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 4, 2022 21:55:11 GMT
I've a pair of Spotfires if you want to compare. No need mate, I did the comparison at length before I sold all the Spotfire off. I am very happy with the PC-CCC. In fact, I am currently watching another cable with PC-CCC, but if different construction. I heard one a few days ago and it had the a richer presentation. Timbral delight for the mind. New it's around £800 per meter pair + VAT etc, and you still need to change the plugs, although these ones are far better than on the SL-1980, ....it's not going to be easy to find an affordable used pair, so the need for patience is high. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2022 22:38:29 GMT
I refuse to pay that kind of cash for a minor improvement.
Treating my room would probably give me a better gain.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 4, 2022 22:40:25 GMT
I refuse to pay that kind of cash for a minor improvement. Treating my room would probably give me a better gain. Me too, that's why I'm waiting for a used pair to come up at a reasonable cost. Room treatment is getting pretty urgent here too. I have plans though. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2022 22:44:42 GMT
Your reasonable cost is far higher than mine.
My OCC is €20/m. PC-CCC is ten times that, for a small improvement. No thanks. I know where to draw the line.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 4, 2022 22:51:30 GMT
Your reasonable cost is far higher than mine. My OCC is €20/m. PC-CCC is ten times that, for a small improvement. No thanks. I know where to draw the line. Small improvement? Not in my opinion, but regardless it's good to have limits and to know where they are. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2022 22:55:45 GMT
Do you think it will make a big difference on a balanced cable?
I would be looking at €60 a pop for connectors, so I would be looking at almost €400 for a cable.
That is more expensive than my silver OCC cable and AECO pure silver RCA plugs.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 5, 2022 10:24:41 GMT
Do you think it will make a big difference on a balanced cable? I would be looking at €60 a pop for connectors, so I would be looking at almost €400 for a cable. That is more expensive than my silver OCC cable and AECO pure silver RCA plugs. The thing i found with XLR's was that the capacitance varied wildly. There was like 70pf of difference between ceratin ones i tried. The DH Labs ones were the worst for adding capacitance, the Aeco and Elecadio male plugs were the lowest, which caused me to surmise that the hollow pins were having an effect. The cables (Spotfire at the time) did sound different but i believe it was the capacitance. I didn't do masses of experimentation as the cost of XLR plugs is prohibitive, and i didn't like them any way. I converted my 686 to RCA (as i suggest you should) and stuck to RCA plugs. They sounded better IMO and were a lot more plentiful in my house for experimentation. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 11:08:20 GMT
My 686 takes both RCA and XLR. I built it that way deliberately
Having a balanced output on my DAC, feeding the balanced inputs on the pre, which then uses the balanced out on the Pre to feed the balanced inputs on the 686, it seems wise to stick to balanced. I can use €5 connectors, and be happy.
It sounds good. Really good.
(Apologies to Jimbo for the thread hijack/drift).
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Post by jimbo on Mar 5, 2022 11:21:40 GMT
Unless you have balanced all the way through your system from beginning to end there is no point having it on just one piece of gear in the chain.
I am sure you know this anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 11:32:16 GMT
My digital is balanced all the way through.
My analogue is single ended, until it meets the pre amp.
I could make it single ended all the way through, by fitting a switch to select inputs on the amp, ut why over complicate things?
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Post by jimbo on Mar 5, 2022 11:36:53 GMT
My digital is balanced all the way through. My analogue is single ended, until it meets the pre amp. I could make it single ended all the way through, by fitting a switch to select inputs on the amp, ut why over complicate things? Not sure if turntable can be sorted with balanced output? Is you phono balanced? Certainly digital is no problem from beginning to end. |
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Post by macca on Mar 5, 2022 11:37:37 GMT
I read somewhere that a cartridge's output is balanced so balanced operation actually makes more sense with analogue, especially with the tiny signal level from cart to phono stage.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 11:41:18 GMT
My digital is balanced all the way through. My analogue is single ended, until it meets the pre amp. I could make it single ended all the way through, by fitting a switch to select inputs on the amp, ut why over complicate things? Not sure if turntable can be sorted with balanced output? Is you phono balanced? Certainly digital is no problem from beginning to end. No, phono stage is single ended. I suppose a cartridge could be considered balanced if you look at the signal, L+, L-, R+, R- and a ground? However, it is wired up single ended, the phono stage is single ended, the pre amp input is single ended. It will stay single ended. |
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Post by misterc on Mar 5, 2022 11:49:21 GMT
Arh yes LRC and its great ability to throw you out of sync, it gets really interesting when you look at the dynamic abilities of the basic LRC then its a rather different ball game altogther.
We spend more time dvising ultra low impedence power supplies, matching connectors and board layout etc to help combat though pesky transimpedancies and return path currents than many other so called more advanced portions of our work.
Its quite facsinating how the signals are skewed out wack by material/impedance and construction issues.
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Post by jimbo on Mar 5, 2022 12:23:47 GMT
Not sure if turntable can be sorted with balanced output? Is you phono balanced? Certainly digital is no problem from beginning to end. No, phono stage is single ended. I suppose a cartridge could be considered balanced if you look at the signal, L+, L-, R+, R- and a ground? However, it is wired up single ended, the phono stage is single ended, the pre amp input is single ended. It will stay single ended. If phono is not balanced you will not getting benefit of balanced circuit output through the system? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 12:40:30 GMT
No, I am not. But if it was balanced, then my pre amp would need to be changed.
It only has two inputs.
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Post by jimbo on Mar 5, 2022 12:51:22 GMT
No, I am not. But if it was balanced, then my pre amp would need to be changed. It only has two inputs. Ahh...yes, more expense? |
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