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Post by jimbo on Jan 24, 2021 15:11:01 GMT
jimbo Nice write-up there. These very small form DACs/DACHats provide unrivalled price v performance ratio. The PecanPi delivering a performance that left a Topping D90 quaking in it's boots (IMO) for 25% of the price. Just boom have been around for a long time and theirs was one of the first DAC hats i heard and one that made me start to think this small form technology may be the way to go for the "non-committal" digital listener. I am very pleased you have found something that really delivers for less than half a tank of diesel. Cant wait to hear it! I suspect a LPSU may be hooked up to it soon? Yes Oli, way better than I expected it to sound. |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 24, 2021 15:11:49 GMT
Excellent write up James , it's so good to know that I'm not hearing things  This little DAC certainly sounds much better than it should  Your right mate,It should win the award for the best sounding cheapest DAC? |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 25, 2021 10:30:04 GMT
Interesting after a day with the Justboom DAC in situ I realised soome of the small detail and resolution at the back of recordings was a bit vague and the treble is a touch curtailed. Not a deal breaker as the midrange is very much in focus with great resolution. It is certainly better than my ALLO BOSS which emphasised the bass region too much. Maybe some adjustments to cables and PSU can bring out more from this little beast?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 11:30:31 GMT
For a DAC that costs £25, is there much point spending more to eek out a little bit of performance, or accept it for what it is, and put the funds towards a better DAC.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 25, 2021 13:30:00 GMT
Interesting after a day with the Justboom DAC in situ I realised soome of the small detail and resolution at the back of recordings was a bit vague and the treble is a touch curtailed. Not a deal breaker as the midrange is very much in focus with great resolution. It is certainly better than my ALLO BOSS which emphasised the bass region too much. Maybe some adjustments to cables and PSU can bring out more from this little beast? Are you using your Spotfire cables? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 25, 2021 14:11:16 GMT
For a DAC that costs £25, is there much point spending more to eek out a little bit of performance, or accept it for what it is, and put the funds towards a better DAC. Yes, i absolutely agree...but which one? That may seem like a straight forward answer at first, but i know Jim has heard a lot of DACs and i know he has loaned a few too. Admittedly i suspect the majority were Chord DACs but none the less, none of them made Jim want to keep them. and here inlies the problem. It's VERY easy to be enthusiastic about a £25 DAC, that works straight out of the Box and makes a good fist of whatever you throw at it. What isnt as easy, is to justify spending £1-2k on a DAC, especially if (as Jim has said) his Vinyl replay destroys everything in that price bracket that he has heard in his system. Spending £50 on a LPSU for a £25 DAC is a lot easier to do, and is probably more fun as it's never going to be anything but a "bit of fun" The thing is, these little DACs do invoke almost knee jerk responses because you expect so little from them. All of them almost always over deliver. IME, these little DACs do a lot right and for the money, yes, they are terrific BUT when you listen to them over a period of time, they do start to present their shortcomings. It's unavoidable. What i'd like to see is Jim put something in that huge room that makes the most of the space. The Heco's are screaming out for an amplifier that really grips them and drives them into levels of tight, tight bass that havent been seen yet. A commitment to a really good Digital front end like a Denafrips Pontus type of device and a really useful file delivery system would be second, and then id sit there for three months and really listen to whats being achieved. Then i think there would be a few real eye opener moments in the Digital Vs Analogue battle Jim has been having for 20 years lol. However, that would cost quite a bit to do and due to the love of the Croft sound Jim has, i think it would be a wrench to move away from it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 14:51:31 GMT
That is the problem with the digital journey. There are so many choices, at each price point.
The main reason I went for the RME DAC is that if I don’t like it, I can probably sell it for more on eBay. It is the later V2 model. These go for around €700 on eBay.
Ideally, you need to find a dealer, and borrow one from them. Difficult with 2nd gear, but as OldPinkMan recently told me, you can buy it, and then move it on with very little in the way of losses if you buy wisely.
I am hoping to try the SEG and the RME against his newly acquired Benchmark DAC1, when we are allowed....
As for Jimbo, it is a difficult one. As you say, he likes the Croft sound, but as I have recently discovered, some speakers are “transformed” with a few more watts up them. Trying to solve the digital front end, at the same times as trying to get better suited amplification is probably a challenge. I think I would be trialling some amps first, as the vinyl front end would really benefit. The digital can be done later.
I have just been streaming from Qubuz for most of the day, after fitting the new RCA sockets. Yes it sounds good, but popping on some vinyl shows that there is still a performance gap. How much am I prepared to pay to close this gap? Not much at the moment. Will I achieve a gap closure? Of course not.... I will be happy if I get a bit closer though.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 25, 2021 15:03:05 GMT
That is the problem with the digital journey. There are so many choices, at each price point. The main reason I went for the RME DAC is that if I don’t like it, I can probably sell it for more on eBay. It is the later V2 model. These go for around €700 on eBay. Ideally, you need to find a dealer, and borrow one from them. Difficult with 2nd gear, but as OldPinkMan recently told me, you can buy it, and then move it on with very little in the way of losses if you buy wisely. I am hoping to try the SEG and the RME against his newly acquired Benchmark DAC1, when we are allowed.... As for Jimbo, it is a difficult one. As you say, he likes the Croft sound, but as I have recently discovered, some speakers are “transformed” with a few more watts up them. Trying to solve the digital front end, at the same times as trying to get better suited amplification is probably a challenge. I think I would be trialling some amps first, as the vinyl front end would really benefit. The digital can be done later. I have just been streaming from Qubuz for most of the day, after fitting the new RCA sockets. Yes it sounds good, but popping on some vinyl shows that there is still a performance gap. How much am I prepared to pay to close this gap? Not much at the moment. Will I achieve a gap closure? Of course not.... I will be happy if I get a bit closer though. Thats the thing isn't it. It's a path of very few constant results. I agree with you, 100%. Start with the Amplification. Get that right and then everything gets a lift, and you can be sure of whatever else you test. I just missed a Colin Wonfer SECA amp the other day. It was very cheap and i though it might be a great fit for Jim. We need an alternative mega quality amp as the 686 is starting to get TOO popular lol |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 25, 2021 16:11:19 GMT
For a DAC that costs £25, is there much point spending more to eek out a little bit of performance, or accept it for what it is, and put the funds towards a better DAC. As we all know with most pieces of hifi kit the PSU can make all the difference between average and excellent performance. |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 25, 2021 16:13:17 GMT
Interesting after a day with the Justboom DAC in situ I realised soome of the small detail and resolution at the back of recordings was a bit vague and the treble is a touch curtailed. Not a deal breaker as the midrange is very much in focus with great resolution. It is certainly better than my ALLO BOSS which emphasised the bass region too much. Maybe some adjustments to cables and PSU can bring out more from this little beast? Are you using your Spotfire cables? Not using Spotfire but a very good cable. I feel the biggest area of concern is the Power supply and this would be where I would get my biggest uplift I feel. Currently using a crappy 5v 1A phone charging plug with cheap USB micro cable!  |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 25, 2021 16:27:50 GMT
My first priority now I have sorted the speakers will be a bit more amplification - that is definitely No1. I will always mess around with digital because it is fun and you can get so much reward for so little but as Oli has correctly ascertained in order for me to ever take digital seriously and keep me interested it needs to be at least on a par with my analogue system if not better! This requires probably a more significant spend than £25 on a DAC If I were to shoot High there are lots of options but we are talking the same price point as my turntable so £2000 +. Then I may find something really acceptable to make a decent fist of digital audio.
BUT because I am such an analogue fan I could take a sideways option and improve on my current system with a top end MC and a nice MC phono stage, both which are not cheap.
If I were to roll the dice and say which one would give me the most satisfaction either spending £2000+ on a DAC or £2000+ on analogue I would find that a tough call.
SO power amp first and then I will consider my options. Of course I would like to do both and that would be my long term aim which is probably what will happen. The analogue route is very quick an easy to sort first and almost a no brainer but the Digital options are more tricky? I have pondered equipment in both categories and it is now a fairly small playing field but as Oli knows I move like a glacier and so getting there will not be fast! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 25, 2021 16:56:02 GMT
My first priority now I have sorted the speakers will be a bit more amplification - that is definitely No1. I will always mess around with digital because it is fun and you can get so much reward for so little but as Oli has correctly ascertained in order for me to ever take digital seriously and keep me interested it needs to be at least on a par with my analogue system if not better! This requires probably a more significant spend than £25 on a DAC If I were to shoot High there are lots of options but we are talking the same price point as my turntable so £2000 +. Then I may find something really acceptable to make a decent fist of digital audio. BUT because I am such an analogue fan I could take a sideways option and improve on my current system with a top end MC and a nice MC phono stage, both which are not cheap.
If I were to roll the dice and say which one would give me the most satisfaction either spending £2000+ on a DAC or £2000+ on analogue I would find that a tough call. SO power amp first and then I will consider my options. Of course I would like to do both and that would be my long term aim which is probably what will happen. The analogue route is very quick an easy to sort first and almost a no brainer but the Digital options are more tricky? I have pondered equipment in both categories and it is now a fairly small playing field but as Oli knows I move like a glacier and so getting there will not be fast! I've seen glaciers overtake you, Jim  Thats also a very good point there, too. If you are going to drop £2k on a Digital front end, would that make a significant improvement on the analogue instead? For me, the allure of vinyl has been on the wain for a while. Losing that HA103-SEL after a few months to stylus wear (now confirmed) really put the cost of analogue into perspective. I'll always have vinyl and will continue to thoroughly enjoy it, but the Soekris brought things up to such a high standard of SQ that i really feel it's on a par with 99% of analogue i have heard anywhere. It's really close to my vinyl in soundstage and resolution, so i am definitly a happy bunny. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 17:12:33 GMT
This is what puts me off MC. Stylus wear...
On my MM, I am looking at €160 for a Jico SAS/B. It probably gives me 80 to 90% of what an MC does, with about 20% of the cost.
I think soundstage is one of the things I am looking for with a DAC. I think it is going to be a long search, but the RME has some interesting features.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 25, 2021 17:57:56 GMT
This is what puts me off MC. Stylus wear... On my MM, I am looking at €160 for a Jico SAS/B. It probably gives me 80 to 90% of what an MC does, with about 20% of the cost. I think soundstage is one of the things I am looking for with a DAC. I think it is going to be a long search, but the RME has some interesting features. I remember when I was still using (and loving) an Acutex MM cartridge. There was a conversation about carts on AoS and I was convinced to try a MC by someone there, can't recall who, but he said (roughly) that MMs can be good, but MCs are a level above. It's hard to argue against that point from what I have experienced with Vinyl. The best cartridge I heard is an MC. Yet the truth is that I hadn't used a truly top class Phonostage with any MM cartridge. With the BB3 having MM & MC I did that. I bought an Acutex, and Vs the Ethos it got absolutely mullered. The Acutex was about £40 but it was BNIB. the Ethos is £900ish. This may seem like a complete mismatch, and I'd agree. It cost £125 to beat that Acutex when I bought the Rondo Red. Thankfully almost every MC I have bought has improved on the last, but cost significantly more. MC are IMO the best carts overall, but their purchase cost and the realistic playtime of only about 300-500 hours before you start to hear degradation of performance makes them a very expensive but of kit. I have probably left Vinyl behind for now. There is plenty more I can do with £1k that benefits my whole family, rather than just my system. |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 25, 2021 18:06:06 GMT
This is what puts me off MC. Stylus wear... On my MM, I am looking at €160 for a Jico SAS/B. It probably gives me 80 to 90% of what an MC does, with about 20% of the cost. I think soundstage is one of the things I am looking for with a DAC. I think it is going to be a long search, but the RME has some interesting features. That is also my thinking and why I have stuck with a 2M Black although I would have another FGS stylus version again when I next replace it.
I can confirm the Soekris does have a great soundstage as indeed I think many of the R2R Dacs.
I am really looking for a DAC I can live with long term so must be musically satisfying and not just a quick thrill! Many are like a sugar rush that is great at the time but you soon get tired or sick of them.
I was worn out senseless by listening to many of the Chord DACS, I found them tiring as so many DACs are in their pursuit for detail and resolution, what they miss out on is the tonal qualities that vinyl gives you and the effortless soundstage. All DACs struggle with this even DAVE which is very good and probably best in class. I have heard DACs from Gold Note ( Italian company) with tube output stages and these were fairly good. But the long list of other DACs I have heard from Meridian, Beresford, Benchmark, Simaudio, Bel canto, Topping, Audioquest,Wadia and M2Tech just to name the ones I can remember have left me totally non plussed.
Over the years none of the DACs I heard sounded anywhere near as good as vinyl. Maybe we are getting better digital audio in the last few years with DACs from Myteck, HoloAudio and the new kids on the block but I think the sound I am looking for from a DAC is still illusive.
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Post by stevew on Jan 25, 2021 20:01:52 GMT
Best review for the Ares 2 yet.
Asked my wife what she thought my system sounded like with the Ares added.
So I played her favourite album.. Buena Vista Social Club.
‘You know that sound of brushy things on drums?
....This has it’
Gentlemen I rest my case.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 25, 2021 20:19:17 GMT
Best review for the Ares 2 yet. Asked my wife what she thought my system sounded like with the Ares added. So I played her favourite album.. Buena Vista Social Club. ‘You know that sound of brushy things on drums? ....This has it’ Gentlemen I rest my case. Lol......great aren't they. |
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Post by antonio on Jan 26, 2021 1:43:44 GMT
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Post by jimbo on Jan 26, 2021 6:34:09 GMT
I have not seen that one Antonio but I am aware of them, however I am using Toslink and not going via USB route at the moment. That looks a bargain. |
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Post by brian2957 on Jan 26, 2021 10:49:56 GMT
The JustBoom DAC doesn't have a USB input so you will need a USB to Spdif converter if you want to use the Oehlbach XXL with it . I have tried it and prefer the JustBoom without it .
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Post by jimbo on Jan 26, 2021 12:24:35 GMT
The JustBoom DAC doesn't have a USB input so you will need a USB to Spdif converter if you want to use the Oehlbach XXL with it . I have tried it and prefer the JustBoom without it . Great, another £80 saved! |
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Post by stryder5 on Jan 27, 2021 10:51:13 GMT
Are you using your Spotfire cables? Not using Spotfire but a very good cable. I feel the biggest area of concern is the Power supply and this would be where I would get my biggest uplift I feel. Currently using a crappy 5v 1A phone charging plug with cheap USB micro cable! |
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Post by stryder5 on Jan 27, 2021 10:55:38 GMT
Thanks for the heads up guys my JustBoom arrived this morning and a little red box.
Currently set up in 2nd system just to see if it needs burning in.
I have a charging plug power supply running currently, will try battery and linear PS to compare.
Gary
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Post by jimbo on Jan 27, 2021 13:01:44 GMT
Thanks for the heads up guys my JustBoom arrived this morning and a little red box. Currently set up in 2nd system just to see if it needs burning in. I have a charging plug power supply running currently, will try battery and linear PS to compare. Gary I would be most interested to hear the difference between battery and LPSU. Please keep us updated Gary .
I personally found it sounded better connected to the mains rather than on battery.
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Post by brian2957 on Jan 27, 2021 13:17:43 GMT
I look forward to your findings Gary .
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Post by stryder5 on Jan 28, 2021 8:50:52 GMT
Not much to add to Jimbo’s great review.
What stood out to me was dynamics, texture in instruments, bass defined, top end not hard, electric guitars had a zing to them.
Up there with any I’ve heard.
So far I agree with Jimbo, using a phone charger supply sounds better than battery (I tried 3 different makes/capacity.).
Have to make lead for my LPS, will let you know.
Gary
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Post by brian2957 on Jan 28, 2021 9:51:34 GMT
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Post by jimbo on Jan 28, 2021 12:52:04 GMT
Glad you getting good results too Gary, its a little Gem.
It is not a DAC for resolution freaks but for long periods of listening I have had no digital fatigue unlike most other DACs I have heard.
Areas I thought this DAC performed well:
Bass
Midrange
Vocals
Tone
Overall smooth non fatiguing sound
Previously I did think treble detail was recessed especially in the back of the soundstage but last night I thought it sounded much better and I could clearly hear stuff better than a few days ago so maybe it does improve after running in for a while.
One area that I did feel it lacked behind was resolution which is not to say it doesn't give you loads of detail but it does feel very slightly vague in some of the soundstage imaging , however with a better power supply and cables this maybe addressed?
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JimBlog
Jan 28, 2021 13:43:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by stevew on Jan 28, 2021 13:43:17 GMT
Strange... whenever I try either of those links it goes to virus attack warnings |
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Post by brian2957 on Jan 28, 2021 14:15:03 GMT
Don't know what's going on there Steve . I have put the Ebay item number there too .
Can the mods have a look at this please .
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This little DAC certainly sounds much better than it should 
