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Post by macca on Dec 5, 2020 8:19:30 GMT
I think a lot of this is to do with familiarity.
Years ago I lived in a shared house with 3 other blokes, we were all working for the same company. In those days I was about 90% vinyl, I'd only had a cd player for a couple of years.
The bloke in the room below was a few years younger and was CD only, but we had similar taste in music. He was a big Paul Weller fan.
One day he comes up to my room and I am listening to 'Stanley Road' on vinyl. He says 'what's this album?'
I said 'it's Stanley Road, you've got it, I've heard you playing it more than once!' He says 'But it sounds so different!'
Over the years digital moved from about 10% of my listening to 100% very gradually. Even so there are still some records that don't sound right to me on digital, especially Hendrix and Zeppelin.
I reckon that is because I spent so much time listening to Hendrix and Zep on vinyl at university that not just every note and sound is burned into my brain but the tone of every note and sound is burned in. So it's never going to sound 'right' to me from digital even though I'm aware that the digital versions are closer to the actual recordings.
Anyway, just a theory, thought I'd throw it out there.
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Post by macca on Dec 5, 2020 9:50:18 GMT
I bought my first player in 1995 when it became much harder - or impossible - to buy new releases on vinyl.
It didn't sound harsh or hard or like glass but it just didn't sound as good as vinyl. But with no option I learned to live with it and over the years it got used more and more.
So I sort of eased my way into it over a long time - like you ease your way into a cold bath.
Eventually digital started sounding right and vinyl started sounding wrong (with a few exceptions as mentioned previously).
Ironically the only reason I went digital is now no longer a reason since you can buy vinyl everywhere again.
The bloke who lived below me in the shared house is still a mate and drops around occasionally. He's always bugging me to play him some vinyl. He loves it.
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Post by antonio on Dec 15, 2020 14:25:27 GMT
Nice one. Surprised no one else has thought of this before. I use those hemisheres under a bamboo chopping board and my turntable sit on that.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 15, 2020 14:54:40 GMT
Been using a wall shelf with a compact laminate board under my TT for years now. I hemispheres between the layers and the improvements were not subtle.
Glad this has had a significant impact on your listening Jim.
The golden rule of Vinyl is to remove as much vibrational energy as possible and to prevent it getting the TT
Then all that's left should just be the enegergy generated from the cartridge.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 15, 2020 15:56:00 GMT
The cartridge sounds like a different beast and its ability to unravel complex information now is stunning. I have not heard any MC cartridges do any better. It is smooth, powerful, massively detailed and picks out nuances i have never heard before. The soundstage last night was vast but it was the uncanny 3 dimentional nature of the vocals that was especially noticeable. Some were really spooky how they were projected into the room with you. I feel that the VPI / 2M FGS has now given me a glimpse of what the very best analogue machines can do at a far higher price.If I had the money to invest in an even better analogue front end it would be frightening what level of performance could be achieved. I think you have to bear in mind the fact your 2M black is modded too Jim. Folks reading this may not realise that. As for its abilities Vs MC.....that is something I think you would need to try in your system. A Cadenza Bronze/Black may just change your opinion. Who knows, but what is interesting is that since making to changes....the speakers and the furniture, your posts have been rather effervescent and enthusiastic. This is sure a great sign that you are well on the way. |
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Post by jimbo on Dec 15, 2020 16:15:49 GMT
My experiences with MC cartridges have always left me non plussed but as you know I am always open to listening but to incorporate a Cadenza Bronze in my system would cost me £2500 with phono stage. Not sure if i am willing to spend that type of cash to probably get a marginal/different improvement?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 15, 2020 16:24:25 GMT
My experiences with MC cartridges have always left me non plussed but as you know I am always open to listening but to incorporate a Cadenza Bronze in my system would cost me £2500 with phono stage. Not sure if i am willing to spend that type of cash to probably get a marginal/different improvement? That's an understandable concern Jim. I mean, you upgrade the cart and then add a MC capable Phonostage, but then you start to wonder about the little potentiometers in your pre.....then are the RCA and binding posts up to the job, and the. Before you know it....you've fallen into a rabbit hole you can't get out of. Like me 🤣🤣 |
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Post by robbiegong on Dec 15, 2020 16:25:35 GMT
Last night confirmed the much improved information I am now getting back from the 2M FGS Black cartridge. The background is so much quieter, I did not particularly notice this before. It is like sitting in a room with a fridge buzzing away in the background, you dont notice it until it is switched off. Backgrounds are now so quiet and black. The music seems to just appear from out of nowhere, a bit like CD - yikes... So I listened to a few test tracks I know well and another curious improvement has occurred. Channels separation in now clearer and soundstage is wider but the greatest difference has been the holographic clarity I am now getting from vocals. They are so real and believable in the room it is almost uncanny. I used to get a little of this before but now it is just wow! So noticeable even Helen commented last night on the clarity. So in the last few week just sorting a couple of issues with my turntable has bought about massive returns. First the much improved isolation from the new furniture and secondly the removable of vibration from the turntable motor. The combined effects have been so rewarding and just show how tweaks in the right place can have hugely beneficial effects which is probably not surprising in a mainly mechanical device like a turntable which is hugely susceptible to set up. I must say that each of the improvements I have made are so easily communicated by the new Heco Celan GT 703 speakers. They are exceptional in their transparency and ability to show even small changes in anything you do up front. These speakers are also getting better and the improvements have been substantial since I first bought them in October. They are now very fluid and show exceptional detail and clarity. Although they are fairly large speakers and sound great in my room I do think the next model up could actually sound even better with its two 8 inch bass drivers. The room can easily acccomodate an even larger speaker so it maybe a consideration further down the road. Lol - That's typical symptoms of a true audiophile, we always ponder the next/ newer/revised 'better' version. I'm no different Jimbo. I hankered after the Spendor D7, got them and then the D7.2 was launched and guess what ?.......... one day .......  |
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Post by robbiegong on Dec 15, 2020 16:36:51 GMT
My experiences with MC cartridges have always left me non plussed but as you know I am always open to listening but to incorporate a Cadenza Bronze in my system would cost me £2500 with phono stage. Not sure if i am willing to spend that type of cash to probably get a marginal/different improvement? That's an understandable concern Jim. I mean, you upgrade the cart and then add a MC capable Phonostage, but then you start to wonder about the little potentiometers in your pre.....then are the RCA and binding posts up to the job, and the. Before you know it....you've fallen into a rabbit hole you can't get out of. Like me 🤣🤣 Yeah !! Mad dangerous, you've gone forwards, then you go backwards and round and around if your not careful  |
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Dec 15, 2020 17:07:06 GMT
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Post by stevew on Dec 15, 2020 17:07:06 GMT
My experiences with MC cartridges have always left me non plussed but as you know I am always open to listening but to incorporate a Cadenza Bronze in my system would cost me £2500 with phono stage. Not sure if i am willing to spend that type of cash to probably get a marginal/different improvement? That's an understandable concern Jim. I mean, you upgrade the cart and then add a MC capable Phonostage, but then you start to wonder about the little potentiometers in your pre.....then are the RCA and binding posts up to the job, and the. Before you know it....you've fallen into a rabbit hole you can't get out of. Like me 🤣🤣 Can you speak up? I can’t hear you, I’m down a f#ckin rabbit hole. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 15, 2020 17:09:42 GMT
That's an understandable concern Jim. I mean, you upgrade the cart and then add a MC capable Phonostage, but then you start to wonder about the little potentiometers in your pre.....then are the RCA and binding posts up to the job, and the. Before you know it....you've fallen into a rabbit hole you can't get out of. Like me 🤣🤣 Can you speak up? I can’t hear you, I’m down a fuckin rabbit hole. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Which one? This hobby is fully of them.... I'm currently stuck if "file delivery system" |
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Post by robbiegong on Dec 15, 2020 17:12:05 GMT
That's an understandable concern Jim. I mean, you upgrade the cart and then add a MC capable Phonostage, but then you start to wonder about the little potentiometers in your pre.....then are the RCA and binding posts up to the job, and the. Before you know it....you've fallen into a rabbit hole you can't get out of. Like me 🤣🤣 Can you speak up? I can’t hear you, I’m down a f#ckin rabbit hole.  |
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Dec 15, 2020 17:45:12 GMT
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Post by stevew on Dec 15, 2020 17:45:12 GMT
I’m stuck in the ‘why does my system reproduce bass with vinyl but not really with digital’ hole.
I know I’m never going to get subterranean bass with my speakers... but
For instance.. had an ear worm yesterday of ‘All the way from Tuam’ by the Saw Doctors. Brilliant live band.. well they were 25 years ago.
Anyway... playing it from my NAS or from Qobuz just sounds lightweight.
The vinyl has a lovely bass noise underpinning the rather zingy vocal recording.
My mission is to find a digital system that gives me that bass underpinning
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 15, 2020 17:53:48 GMT
I’m stuck in the ‘why does my system reproduce bass with vinyl but not really with digital’ hole. I know I’m never going to get subterranean bass with my speakers... but For instance.. had an ear worm yesterday of ‘All the way from Tuam’ by the Saw Doctors. Brilliant live band.. well they were 25 years ago. Anyway... playing it from my NAS or from Qobuz just sounds lightweight. The vinyl has a lovely bass noise underpinning the rather zingy vocal recording. My mission is to find a digital system that gives me that bass underpinning Is that with the Mojo? |
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Dec 15, 2020 17:56:23 GMT
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Post by stevew on Dec 15, 2020 17:56:23 GMT
Yeah
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Post by stevew on Dec 15, 2020 17:58:11 GMT
I’ve still got the pecan plumbed in but powered down and MOode set to usb out.
Might give that particular track a rerun on the Pecan.
See? Bloody rabbit holes
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Post by jimbo on Dec 15, 2020 19:47:43 GMT
I’m stuck in the ‘why does my system reproduce bass with vinyl but not really with digital’ hole. I know I’m never going to get subterranean bass with my speakers... but For instance.. had an ear worm yesterday of ‘All the way from Tuam’ by the Saw Doctors. Brilliant live band.. well they were 25 years ago. Anyway... playing it from my NAS or from Qobuz just sounds lightweight. The vinyl has a lovely bass noise underpinning the rather zingy vocal recording. My mission is to find a digital system that gives me that bass underpinning Hi Steve,
If you want to hear some decent bass then maybe you should try a Soekris DAC - more bass than my vinyl or I am sure a Denafrips would be equally as good?
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Post by jimbo on Dec 15, 2020 19:52:48 GMT
Last night confirmed the much improved information I am now getting back from the 2M FGS Black cartridge. The background is so much quieter, I did not particularly notice this before. It is like sitting in a room with a fridge buzzing away in the background, you dont notice it until it is switched off. Backgrounds are now so quiet and black. The music seems to just appear from out of nowhere, a bit like CD - yikes... So I listened to a few test tracks I know well and another curious improvement has occurred. Channels separation in now clearer and soundstage is wider but the greatest difference has been the holographic clarity I am now getting from vocals. They are so real and believable in the room it is almost uncanny. I used to get a little of this before but now it is just wow! So noticeable even Helen commented last night on the clarity. So in the last few week just sorting a couple of issues with my turntable has bought about massive returns. First the much improved isolation from the new furniture and secondly the removable of vibration from the turntable motor. The combined effects have been so rewarding and just show how tweaks in the right place can have hugely beneficial effects which is probably not surprising in a mainly mechanical device like a turntable which is hugely susceptible to set up. I must say that each of the improvements I have made are so easily communicated by the new Heco Celan GT 703 speakers. They are exceptional in their transparency and ability to show even small changes in anything you do up front. These speakers are also getting better and the improvements have been substantial since I first bought them in October. They are now very fluid and show exceptional detail and clarity. Although they are fairly large speakers and sound great in my room I do think the next model up could actually sound even better with its two 8 inch bass drivers. The room can easily acccomodate an even larger speaker so it maybe a consideration further down the road. Lol - That's typical symptoms of a true audiophile, we always ponder the next/ newer/revised 'better' version. I'm no different Jimbo. I hankered after the Spendor D7, got them and then the D7.2 was launched and guess what ?.......... one day ....... Hi Rob,
yes sometimes you need to know when to stop and be satisfied because there is always and will always be something better round the corner.
If you are thinking of upgrading from the D7 I would strongly recommend the Heco Celan GT 702 or 902. They are stunning speakers, yes I know unheard of in this country but I can recommend them hugely and you will save yourself a pile of cash. |
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Post by jimbo on Dec 15, 2020 19:54:07 GMT
Chord mojo is great but thin sounding in the bass. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2020 20:09:48 GMT
Lol - That's typical symptoms of a true audiophile, we always ponder the next/ newer/revised 'better' version. I'm no different Jimbo. I hankered after the Spendor D7, got them and then the D7.2 was launched and guess what ?.......... one day ....... Hi Rob,
yes sometimes you need to know when to stop and be satisfied because there is always and will always be something better round the corner.
If you are thinking of upgrading from the D7 I would strongly recommend the Heco Celan GT 702 or 902. They are stunning speakers, yes I know unheard of in this country but I can recommend them hugely and you will save yourself a pile of cash. I think I am almost at that point. Yes, I could improve on my DAC, but it is not going to be massively better, so why bother chasing rainbows. |
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Dec 15, 2020 20:10:35 GMT
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Post by stevew on Dec 15, 2020 20:10:35 GMT
Chord mojo is great but thin sounding in the bass. Ahh.. ok. Another rabbit hole to go chasing the bass then. |
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Post by antonio on Dec 16, 2020 4:28:26 GMT
I think the suggestion of the Denafrips could be a good one for you Jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Dec 16, 2020 6:33:16 GMT
I think the suggestion of the Denafrips could be a good one for you Jimbo I think that a Denafrips would be high on my list of DACs i would be most interested to hear. |
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Dec 16, 2020 15:32:34 GMT
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 16, 2020 15:32:34 GMT
Chord mojo is great but thin sounding in the bass. Really? I enjoyed my time with the Mojo a lot. I genuinely rate it the best sounding Chord DAC I have heard up to and including the Hugo2. Must admit I never noticed a thin sounding bass, but I'm not a bass led music type being a classical fanboy. I only used it as a system DAC, not a headphone amp. It had a sense of organic solidity and flow that I found lacking in the others. |
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Post by stevew on Dec 16, 2020 17:52:34 GMT
Chord mojo is great but thin sounding in the bass. Really? I enjoyed my time with the Mojo a lot. I genuinely rate it the best sounding Chord DAC I have heard up to and including the Hugo2. Must admit I never noticed a thin sounding bass, but I'm not a bass led music type being a classical fanboy. I only used it as a system DAC, not a headphone amp. It had a sense of organic solidity and flow that I found lacking in the others. Interesting that you say that Jerry. Managed to spend an hour or so this afternoon switching between the Mojo and the Pecan pi. Organic solidity is an excellent description. Everything with the mojo just sounds ‘right’. Nothing emphasised, nothing too ‘shouty’. In fact, it’s helping to ween me away from hifi experimentation. I get fed up with not just being satisfied with listening to music and I’m beginning to realise that the way the music is presented through the mojo is helping that desire. |
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Post by jimbo on Dec 16, 2020 20:21:35 GMT
Chord mojo is great but thin sounding in the bass. Really? I enjoyed my time with the Mojo a lot. I genuinely rate it the best sounding Chord DAC I have heard up to and including the Hugo2. Must admit I never noticed a thin sounding bass, but I'm not a bass led music type being a classical fanboy. I only used it as a system DAC, not a headphone amp. It had a sense of organic solidity and flow that I found lacking in the others. I should have qualified that remark about the mojo, it is thin relative to some other Dacs I have heard like the Chord Qutest and the Soekris which had massive bass. |
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Post by jimbo on Dec 16, 2020 20:22:46 GMT
Really? I enjoyed my time with the Mojo a lot. I genuinely rate it the best sounding Chord DAC I have heard up to and including the Hugo2. Must admit I never noticed a thin sounding bass, but I'm not a bass led music type being a classical fanboy. I only used it as a system DAC, not a headphone amp. It had a sense of organic solidity and flow that I found lacking in the others. Interesting that you say that Jerry. Managed to spend an hour or so this afternoon switching between the Mojo and the Pecan pi. Organic solidity is an excellent description. Everything with the mojo just sounds ‘right’. Nothing emphasised, nothing too ‘shouty’. In fact, it’s helping to ween me away from hifi experimentation. I get fed up with not just being satisfied with listening to music and I’m beginning to realise that the way the music is presented through the mojo is helping that desire. If you like the mojo Steve then the Qutest should be on your list of DACs to hear. I was very impressed with it in the short time I used it. |
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JimBlog
Dec 16, 2020 20:47:42 GMT
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 16, 2020 20:47:42 GMT
I've not heard a Qutest in my system but I have owned its predecessor, the 2Qute boosted by a Teddy Pardo PSU so probably quite close to a Qutest... I prefer the Mojo!
There's something unChord-like about the Mojo which appeals to me. I'm not a huge fan of Chord DACs. Although for some reason I keep trying!
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Dec 16, 2020 21:26:13 GMT
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Post by stevew on Dec 16, 2020 21:26:13 GMT
I've not heard a Qutest in my system but I have owned its predecessor, the 2Qute boosted by a Teddy Pardo PSU so probably quite close to a Qutest... I prefer the Mojo! There's something unChord-like about the Mojo which appeals to me. I'm not a huge fan of Chord DACs. Although for some reason I keep trying! I do wonder if the absence of mains power is something to do with the balanced sound I hear. I dunno. |
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Dec 16, 2020 21:33:32 GMT
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 16, 2020 21:33:32 GMT
Yes, interesting thought. I'm getting kind of similar results from my battery powered MyST R2R DAC. Very solid sort of sound. Makes many other DACs sound a bit vague, thin and flat.
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