Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 30, 2019 18:26:09 GMT
Yes I got that, shouldn't really matter whether I chose an Uk, Us, Ch, etc.etc manufacturer as comparison. The images are irrefutable are they not, ergo, I fail to understand the censorship. The pictures aren't necessary are they. It serves no purpose other than to continue the promotion of negativity towards a certain brand and that's a purpose in not interested in. NVA of old, no longer exists so what's the point? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 18:32:28 GMT
Yes I got that, shouldn't really matter whether I chose an Uk, Us, Ch, etc.etc manufacturer as comparison. The images are irrefutable are they not, ergo, I fail to understand the censorship. The pictures aren't necessary are they. It serves no purpose other than to continue the promotion of negativity towards a certain brand and that's a purpose in not interested in. NVA of old, no longer exists so what's the point? Are you serious that ifactual mages of internal build quality are irrevilant, I look forward to the next similar comment on any other item of HiFi on this forum. Are you really in a position to comment that the image I referenced Is no longer representative of a company's current production, if so I look forward to viewing the latest images. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 30, 2019 18:39:04 GMT
The pictures aren't necessary are they. It serves no purpose other than to continue the promotion of negativity towards a certain brand and that's a purpose in not interested in. NVA of old, no longer exists so what's the point? Are you serious that images of internal build quality are irrevilant, I look forward to the next similar comment on any other item of HiFi on this forum. Are you really in a position to comment that the image I referenced Is no longer representative of a company's current production. Vlad, I'm not interested. 1) The work done in that amplifier was done by someone who is no longer alive. 2) IF the new owner of NVA, or anyone who owns something new (post RD era) would like to submit a sample image of the new workmanship, I am more than happy for that to be discussed and compared to what else is available for the same money. Whatever conversation comes of that, is what it is. I'd have no problem but this is just another attempt to slinging Sh#t at a brand and a person you disliked intensely. And yes, I'm serious |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 18:49:07 GMT
Well I flogged all my Dunn era NVA kit, not because it sounded poop, (it sounded okay) but because I fancied a change of direction.
I'm delighted with my new set up and hopefully it will see me in the box !!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 18:49:33 GMT
1) Is the technician that built the Sansui amplifier back in the 1970's still alive, why does that matter, it is a simple illustration of the build quality of a Battleship build Japanese amplifier, I have images of other non Japanese manufacturers builds that are equilly questionable, would that be acceptable.
Do Concider that not all of that company's equipment was constructed by the then owner, I understand that one of the then circa build technicians is now the current solo technician for the company you reference.
2) I quite agree, that would be of interest if proffered.
I am am quite happy to admit that a good deal of my purchases in life are influenced by build quality which is why still run an 2016 911 turbo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 19:08:38 GMT
Well I flogged all my Dunn era NVA kit, not because it sounded poop, (it sounded okay) but because I fancied a change of direction. I'm delighted with my new set up and hopefully it will see me in the box !!! Yup, I made no mention of sound quality, merely build quality, although you seem to have come to your own conclusions regarding the former in your own opinion. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 30, 2019 19:14:02 GMT
1) Is the technician that built the Sansui amplifier back in the 1970's still alive, why does that matter, it is a simple illustration of the build quality of a Battleship build Japanese amplifier, I have images of other non Japanese manufacturers builds that are equilly questionable, would that be acceptable. Do Concider that not all of that company's equipment was constructed by the then owner, I understand that one of the then circa build technicians is now the current solo technician for the company you reference. 2) I quite agree, that would be of interest if proffered. I am am quite happy to admit that a good deal of my purchases in life are influenced by build quality which is why still run an 2016 911 turbo. As I said, If there are up to date pics available of the work done under the new ownership, then I'm happy to discuss it. Untill then, it's only feasible to see this for what it was, and that was a rather clever way of putting the boot in, posthumously. So, let's move on and allow this thread to get back to JAPANESE amplifiers. |
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 30, 2019 20:14:25 GMT
JAPANESE amplifier - Technics SU-MA10. Big brute integrated - beautiful slightly soft sound.  |
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 30, 2019 20:17:57 GMT
and a Yamaha semi-pro power amp, I forget how many 100s of watts but quite a few  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 30, 2019 21:12:41 GMT
and a Yamaha semi-pro power amp, I forget how many 100s of watts but quite a few That is a beast! |
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 31, 2019 8:28:26 GMT
Love the meters, too.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 11:14:40 GMT
Jerry you mention "soft sounding" that's my findings on all of the big buggers I've heard.... strange, but all very smooth and polite.
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Post by antonio on Dec 31, 2019 12:49:49 GMT
That's exactly how my Sony 770ES sounded Harrison.
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 31, 2019 14:26:16 GMT
Jerry you mention "soft sounding" that's my findings on all of the big buggers I've heard.... strange, but all very smooth and polite. Yes, often true ime - although that big Yammie did a decent impersonation of a hammer drill. Rock solid power and a bit on the upfront side. The 20wpc Graaf valve power amp also in that photo showed what the Yammie was missing in terms of delicacy and finesse, although the Graaf was also an impressively capable allrounder into my easy to drive speakers. The big Technics integrated was defo on the polite side, a very beautiful sound, which isn't a word I'd use for most gear. |
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Post by rexton on Dec 31, 2019 16:49:07 GMT
I loved the Sansui AU 719 silly to sell it really.
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Post by robbiegong on Dec 31, 2019 17:17:33 GMT
I loved the Sansui AU 719 silly to sell it really. Can believe it Andy, My AU 919 sounded fab when I had in my system and it wasnt even properly 'burned 'in' after being completely overhauled, upgraded and re-capped by Angus-Phonomac, awesome sounding piece of kit. Another of the great Sansui amps, like my my current Alpha 707DR, just more forward sounding, where the 707DR's presentation is very neutral/balanced across the range. Both, fast, detailed... just excellent in my experience  |
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Post by rexton on Dec 31, 2019 17:51:14 GMT
I'll probably end up with a AU919 at some point. I think that Sansui went downhill after this.
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Post by robbiegong on Dec 31, 2019 20:02:40 GMT
I'll probably end up with a AU919 at some point. I think that Sansui went downhill after this. Not entirely true to be honest Andy, but true in part. The lovely 717, 919, X1 etc came in the late 70's, the very early 80's wasnt great but still saw some more great pieces including the (circa 1983) powerhouse B2301 poweramp - 2 x 300wpc @ 8ohms  The C2301 pre-amp is a beauty too. The D11ii is an excellent sounding amp props around 1986/87 (Angus's Phonomac chosen amp)  As a top tech he knows what to sort / improve as he like others discovered what a great sounding amp this one is. Post 31 here is gives a bit of insight into the Sansui heydays forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/sansui-is-coming-back.289475/page-2 Posts 45 and 46 attest to how superb the AU D11ii sounds whilst being badly built, corners cut left right and centre. There are other high end beauties from later in the 80s by Sansui, the AU-X1111 (circa 1988) Mos Vintage is a legend and an absolute thing of beauty in both looks and sound, some regard it as Sansui's best ever integrated audio-database.com/SANSUI/amp/au-x1111mosvintage-e.html . Again the 90s saw more proper high end pieces, including the Alphas series of amps, all built with intent. I can attest to my Alpha, the AU a707DR being the best amp I've ever had. Gorgeous in looks and so right in sound - detailed, accurate, balanced, effortlessly powerful and non fatiguing. I feel privileged to have one. It probably went proper downhill in terms of these types of serious and genuine audiophile pieces being produced, by 2000.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:44:35 GMT
I loved the Sansui AU 719 silly to sell it really. Sure.....Silly to flog it if you like the put me to sleep sound. Like a coffee.....Triple spoon....cream on top.  |
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Post by sq225917 on Jan 1, 2020 21:22:25 GMT
I'd love one of the big sony get amps, most of the other stuff is too fussy looking
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Post by robbiegong on Jan 1, 2020 22:39:02 GMT
I loved the Sansui AU 719 silly to sell it really. Sure.....Silly to flog it if you like the put me to sleep sound. Like a coffee.....Triple spoon....cream on top. Have you heard one ? I havnt so cant comment but to say the AU-919 and AU a707DR I own, dont have a 'put me to sleep sound' as you describe.... |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 2, 2020 6:30:09 GMT
I loved the Sansui AU 719 silly to sell it really. Sure.....Silly to flog it if you like the put me to sleep sound. Like a coffee.....Triple spoon....cream on top. Ay? I've heard an AU-D11, 919, 719 and multiple other Sansui's & Sony's and I would never have described any of them like that! I think it's quite easy to judge amplifiers by the surrounding gear, mainly speakers, rather than the amplifier itself and I suspect this may be a case in point. One of the key qualities for me is the way they deliver. IME they are refined and controlled. No raucous behaviour, but they certainly don't lack any dynamics or lack the ability to hit home. I am a fan of Big jap amps but their aging parts are unobtanium, and they can be a pig to take apart and repair if/when something goes wrong. The average EE wouldn't take them apart either so unless you know of an Audio enthusiast who happens to be an EE, you're knackered if they ever go wrong. |
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Post by robbiegong on Jan 2, 2020 19:08:11 GMT
Agreed on all points here Oliver, although I'm aware through reading posts and stuf over the years that some do describe some amps (and other components actually), Japanese or otherwise of having an underlying signature that some would call / describe as polite or soft, where on the other hand, some I've seen described as driving the music along with gusto, drive, vigour, so to speak. Either way, I've been fortunate to have big Japanese amps that are more as you describe and importantly for me, just seem to 'reveal' whats recorded, if there's a 'signature' then of any kind I'd describe it as 'gets out of the way' allowing the music to flow and do the talking, hence I've remained so hooked on the things and always stuck with big, high end Japanese integrated's |
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Post by rexton on Jan 2, 2020 19:34:27 GMT
I loved the Sansui AU 719 silly to sell it really. Sure.....Silly to flog it if you like the put me to sleep sound. Like a coffee.....Triple spoon....cream on top.
It wouldn't be so bad if you anything relevant to say of if I could even understand what your trying to say.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 2, 2020 19:54:43 GMT
The Sony V-FETs (5650 and 8650 in the UK market) were absolutely delightful if a touch 'loose' in the bass. They did reproduce recording venue and reverb in general superbly which many Jap amps of the time didn't seem as good at. Please be warned that the output stage is either unobtainable or very expensive indeed (I believe they used matched sets) and at forty five years old, dry joints here and there can cause major destruction of the output stage AND any speakers connected to them. Whether a going over with a soldering iron prevents this I can't say sadly, but what a lovely 'sounding' amp range. In the UK, they replaced them with a range nowhere near as nice I remember.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 2, 2020 21:02:18 GMT
Agreed on all points here Oliver, although I'm aware through reading posts and stuf over the years that some do describe some amps (and other components actually), Japanese or otherwise of having an underlying signature that some would call / describe as polite or soft, where on the other hand, some I've seen described as driving the music along with gusto, drive, vigour, so to speak. Either way, I've been fortunate to have big Japanese amps that are more as you describe and importantly for me, just seem to 'reveal' whats recorded, if there's a 'signature' then of any kind I'd describe it as 'gets out of the way' allowing the music to flow and do the talking, hence I've remained so hooked on the things and always stuck with big, high end Japanese integrated's I've a strong feeling where amps are concerned, that often they are let down in audition by the speakers they are attached to. I was having a think and there's only 5 pairs of speakers Ive heard, that I'd trust to faithfully reveal what the amp is doing. I've heard a lot of systems too. I'm very aware these days of checking out the reviewers system before reading. |
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Post by robbiegong on Jan 2, 2020 21:40:25 GMT
Very good point Oliver.
I could discern what I'd read described as a slightly 'in the box' characteristic of the Mission 752 Freedoms I owned and loved very much. I found them to be very detailed, organic lovely and natural in the mids, balanced and very non fatiguing.
Samely, when I tried the original 752, I'd read it's presentation described as very warm and its top end (metal dome tweeter) as steely / waspish which again is how I found them.
Some loved it as it wasnt a bad speaker at all, quite a good one actually but Mission took its strength being its excellent Aerogel mid/bass driver, revised the 752 by addressing its overly warm/brightish sound, inverted its mid driver to sit above a now silk dome tweeter, which calmed its top end and overall presentation a treat and gave the speaker an all more balanced and less fatiguing expression, allowing it's superb mid/bass driver to shine, properly.
You could clearly hear these different traits in both speakers and as you say, a speakers characteristics are definitely heard in a system, probably in more obvious / dominant way than amps.
I find cartridges the same - Speakers and cartridges are what's known as transducers, maybe their baring on a systems sound is something to do with that ?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 2, 2020 22:06:25 GMT
Very good point Oliver. I could discern what I'd read described as a slightly 'in the box' characteristic of the Mission 752 Freedoms I owned and loved very much. I found them to be very detailed, organic lovely and natural in the mids, balanced and very non fatiguing. Samely, when I tried the original 752, I'd read it's presentation described as very warm and its top end (metal dome tweeter) as steely / waspish which again is how I found them. Some loved it as it wasnt a bad speaker at all, quite a good one actually but Mission took its strength being its excellent Aerogel mid/bass driver, revised the 752 by addressing its overly warm/brightish sound, inverted its mid driver to sit above a now silk dome tweeter, which calmed its top end and overall presentation a treat and gave the speaker an all more balanced and less fatiguing expression, allowing it's superb mid/bass driver to shine, properly. You could clearly hear these different traits in both speakers and as you say, a speakers characteristics are definitely heard in a system, probably in more obvious / dominant way than amps. I find cartridges the same - Speakers and cartridges are what's known as transducers, maybe their baring on a systems sound is something to do with that ? Well obviously the way they work means they can have a colourful effect, which is why us nutters go to the Nth degree with trying to limit the effects |
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Post by karma67 on Jan 3, 2020 8:41:28 GMT
The Sony V-FETs (5650 and 8650 in the UK market) were absolutely delightful if a touch 'loose' in the bass. They did reproduce recording venue and reverb in general superbly which many Jap amps of the time didn't seem as good at. Please be warned that the output stage is either unobtainable or very expensive indeed (I believe they used matched sets) and at forty five years old, dry joints here and there can cause major destruction of the output stage AND any speakers connected to them. Whether a going over with a soldering iron prevents this I can't say sadly, but what a lovely 'sounding' amp range. In the UK, they replaced them with a range nowhere near as nice I remember. i very nearly bought a yamaha b-2 amp a while back,its because of what you wrote above that i didnt,i got cold feet and went the valve route. i still would like to hear one though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 8:51:39 GMT
The Sony V-FETs (5650 and 8650 in the UK market) were absolutely delightful if a touch 'loose' in the bass. They did reproduce recording venue and reverb in general superbly which many Jap amps of the time didn't seem as good at. Please be warned that the output stage is either unobtainable or very expensive indeed (I believe they used matched sets) and at forty five years old, dry joints here and there can cause major destruction of the output stage AND any speakers connected to them. Whether a going over with a soldering iron prevents this I can't say sadly, but what a lovely 'sounding' amp range. In the UK, they replaced them with a range nowhere near as nice I remember. I owned a TA-5650 briefly many years ago. It sounded lovely, but had a slight channel imbalance, so I returned it to the seller. I wonder why the technology was not pursued further, was it cost? I doubt it. More like an inherent issue that could not be overcome I suspect. They sounded so good, that if there was profit in making them, surely V/FET types would still be made. |
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The C2301 pre-amp is a beauty too. 
As a top tech he knows what to sort / improve as he like others discovered what a great sounding amp this one is. 
