Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2019 9:37:01 GMT
Who mentioned shilling? Do it properly!  😂😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 10:19:40 GMT
One reservation I’d have is cost. The stuff I like is a tenner for 5 metres. You need 2 cores per conductor, so that’s really £40 for 10 metres, or £4 a metre. The cable diameter is 2.5mm.
The 1877Phono stuff is thinner, so I’d be Looking to use 3 cores per conductor. At approx £22 a metre for the base cable with 3 cores per conductor, that’s £132 a metre. I’d need about 8 metres. Even if it’s better I’d never believe it could be THAT much better, plus it’s a DIY effort with likely awful/negligible resale value.
After all these years I kinda know what a speaker cable can and can’t do. Unless I spent lottery-win money on a system, there’s no way I’d even think of spending a grand on a part-reel of wire. I doubt I’d ever do the former, even if I was stinking rich, so there’s no way I’d contemplate the latter.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 10:25:36 GMT
Strangely my speaker wires make no difference to how my 64s sound, or Paul's 989s. Give em 4mm of copper and they're perfectly happy. Kind of mirrors my own finding sq. 👍😀😀 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 10:29:39 GMT
After all these years I kinda know what a speaker cable can and can’t do. Unless I spent lottery-win money on a system, there’s no way I’d even think of spending a grand on a part-reel of wire. I doubt I’d ever do the former, even if I was stinking rich, so there’s no way I’d contemplate the latter. Spot on Westie, unfortunately some folk just keep trying to reinvent the wheel. 😂😂😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 10:32:00 GMT
I hear obvious differences between speaker cables of the same diameter. I haven’t heard anything that would make me want to drop a grand at DIY prices.
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Post by firebottle on Nov 23, 2019 11:53:06 GMT
The 1877Phono stuff is thinner, so I’d be Looking to use 3 cores per conductor. Absolutely no need. Whatever this cable does to improve transmission it isn't restricted by resistance. It's expensive, damned expensive compared with many systems, but in the right circumstances it's exceedingly good. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 12:33:08 GMT
The 1877Phono stuff is thinner, so I’d be Looking to use 3 cores per conductor. Absolutely no need. Whatever this cable does to improve transmission it isn't restricted by resistance. It's expensive, damned expensive compared with many systems, but in the right circumstances it's exceedingly good. It looks like Oliver is using more than one wire per conductor, or is it just the thick outer? The diameter is only something like 1.62mm which mist people would think too thin. |
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Post by karma67 on Nov 23, 2019 12:34:45 GMT
Absolutely no need. Whatever this cable does to improve transmission it isn't restricted by resistance. It's expensive, damned expensive compared with many systems, but in the right circumstances it's exceedingly good. It looks like Oliver is using more than one wire per conductor. yep i agree,a twisted pair. |
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Post by firebottle on Nov 23, 2019 12:42:15 GMT
Absolutely no need. Whatever this cable does to improve transmission it isn't restricted by resistance. It's expensive, damned expensive compared with many systems, but in the right circumstances it's exceedingly good. It looks like Oliver is using more than one wire per conductor, or is it just the thick outer? The diameter is only something like 1.6mm which mist people would think too thin. Only one wire per conductor, but each wire is 5.3mm outer diameter. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 12:44:23 GMT
Im curious as to why a 1.62mm conductor is seen as acceptable in this application when usually 4mm for a speaker cable is seen as desirable, even by the likes of Jez. Aren’t you left wondering what a twisted pair would do?
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Post by karma67 on Nov 23, 2019 12:48:29 GMT
Im curious as to why a 1.62mm conductor is seen as acceptable in this application when usually 4mm for a speaker cable is seen as desirable, even by the likes of Jez. Aren’t you left wondering what a twisted pair would do? the specs for this cable say it has a solid core OCC copper conductor with a diameter of 1.3mm,is the sheild used as well to conduct? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 12:51:30 GMT
Im curious as to why a 1.62mm conductor is seen as acceptable in this application when usually 4mm for a speaker cable is seen as desirable, even by the likes of Jez. Aren’t you left wondering what a twisted pair would do? the specs for this cable say it has a solid core OCC copper conductor with a diameter of 1.3mm,is the sheild used as well to conduct? It’s surrounded by other cores making a total area of 2.62mm square. Square root of 2.62 gives a diameter of 1.82. Some folk will see that as expensive bell wire. I’m not saying that’s right, but not many technical posts have supported thin speaker wire as far as I’ve seen. Even two wires per conductor would only be equivalent to a diameter of 2.58mm hence my expectation of using three which still doesn’t equal a 3mm diameter cable unless my maths is wrong. (3x area of 2.62=7.86. Diameter = 3.16mm) www.ookingdom.com/metric/diameteri’d also have thought you’d want to avoid increasing capacitance by separating the two conductors rather than twisting positive and negative together in one sleeve. if you’re getting great results from a cable with very small diameter and un-necessarily increased capacitance, surely it might be bettered by adding more lengths and keeping positive and negative apart. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2019 13:41:01 GMT
I don't know what you guys are looking at or where this 1.6mm thing has come from.
It has a single-crystal OCC copper conductor with a diameter of 1.3mm, covered with a 14 strands of OCC copper braid, 7 of which are silver plated which all together makes a 2.63mm2 conductor!
It's not separated by Graphene. The Graphene is on the outside of this.
It not even an uncommon technique to use a solid core wire wrapped in stranded. What's unusual is the amonunt of windings there are!!
The cable uses two cores per length, not a twisted pair. It doesn't need it.
Unless you are making 10m+ of a single run, there isn't any need for 4mm cable. Would 4mm be better? Well when I tried it and if I thought it was, I would have done that.
Believe me, I don't think the extra cost would have been an issue.
Also, the two lengths are not twisted together. That's a rookie move.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2019 13:46:24 GMT
Im curious as to why a 1.62mm conductor is seen as acceptable in this application when usually 4mm for a speaker cable is seen as desirable, even by the likes of Jez. Aren’t you left wondering what a twisted pair would do? the specs for this cable say it has a solid core OCC copper conductor with a diameter of 1.3mm,is the sheild used as well to conduct? There is no shield. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 13:58:38 GMT
I don't know what you guys are looking at or where this 1.6mm thing has come from. It has a single-crystal OCC copper conductor with a diameter of 1.3mm, covered with a 14 strands of OCC copper braid, 7 of which are silver plated which all together makes a 2.63mm2 conductor! It's not separated by Graphene. The Graphene is on the outside of this. It not even an uncommon technique to use a solid core wire wrapped in stranded. What's unusual is the amonunt of windings there are!! The cable uses two cores per length, not a twisted pair. It doesn't need it. Unless you are making 10m+ of a single run, there isn't any need for 4mm cable. Would 4mm be better? Well when I tried it and if I thought it was, I would have done that. Believe me, I don't think the extra cost would have been an issue. Also, the two lengths are not twisted together. That's a rookie move. 2.62mm square is the area, not the diameter. It’s all explained in my post. It’s actually 1.82mm according to the link below but that’s still very thin. www.ookingdom.com/metric/diameterthey really do look twisted according to the pics. Either way up they would lower capacitance by being entirely separate. I just don’t get why anyone would want to spend big bucks on a thin speaker cable with higher than necessary capacitance, when one of the main justifications for the price seems to be using a superconductor as part of a dielectric, if it works fir you and Alan, I’m not denying your experience. Drawing any conclusions about wider compatibility, I’d be very wary of as there seem to be obvious ways of improving the technical spec. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2019 14:07:40 GMT
I don't know what you guys are looking at or where this 1.6mm thing has come from. It has a single-crystal OCC copper conductor with a diameter of 1.3mm, covered with a 14 strands of OCC copper braid, 7 of which are silver plated which all together makes a 2.63mm2 conductor! It's not separated by Graphene. The Graphene is on the outside of this. It not even an uncommon technique to use a solid core wire wrapped in stranded. What's unusual is the amonunt of windings there are!! The cable uses two cores per length, not a twisted pair. It doesn't need it. Unless you are making 10m+ of a single run, there isn't any need for 4mm cable. Would 4mm be better? Well when I tried it and if I thought it was, I would have done that. Believe me, I don't think the extra cost would have been an issue. Also, the two lengths are not twisted together. That's a rookie move. 2.62mm square is the area, not the diameter. It’s all explained in my post. Yes, I read it again just. It want making sense but I was speed reading lol. |
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Post by karma67 on Nov 23, 2019 14:14:39 GMT
I don't know what you guys are looking at or where this 1.6mm thing has come from. It has a single-crystal OCC copper conductor with a diameter of 1.3mm, covered with a 14 strands of OCC copper braid, 7 of which are silver plated which all together makes a 2.63mm2 conductor! It's not separated by Graphene. The Graphene is on the outside of this. It not even an uncommon technique to use a solid core wire wrapped in stranded. What's unusual is the amonunt of windings there are!! The cable uses two cores per length, not a twisted pair. It doesn't need it. Unless you are making 10m+ of a single run, there isn't any need for 4mm cable. Would 4mm be better? Well when I tried it and if I thought it was, I would have done that. Believe me, I don't think the extra cost would have been an issue. Also, the two lengths are not twisted together. That's a rookie move. they look twisted to me,
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2019 14:29:09 GMT
I don't know what you guys are looking at or where this 1.6mm thing has come from. It has a single-crystal OCC copper conductor with a diameter of 1.3mm, covered with a 14 strands of OCC copper braid, 7 of which are silver plated which all together makes a 2.63mm2 conductor! It's not separated by Graphene. The Graphene is on the outside of this. It not even an uncommon technique to use a solid core wire wrapped in stranded. What's unusual is the amonunt of windings there are!! The cable uses two cores per length, not a twisted pair. It doesn't need it. Unless you are making 10m+ of a single run, there isn't any need for 4mm cable. Would 4mm be better? Well when I tried it and if I thought it was, I would have done that. Believe me, I don't think the extra cost would have been an issue. Also, the two lengths are not twisted together. That's a rookie move. they look twisted to me,
Not twisted. |
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Post by karma67 on Nov 23, 2019 14:37:03 GMT
it must be my eyes then lol |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 15:06:31 GMT
Looks like my NVA LS5.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2019 15:19:31 GMT
That's got to be one of your funnier comments. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 15:27:43 GMT
And I thought a 'twisted pair' was some sort of rugby injury.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 15:28:24 GMT
Looks & Sounds like my NVA LS5 would have been funnier.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2019 15:48:27 GMT
Looks & Sounds like my NVA LS5 would have been funnier. Missed opportunity |
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Post by firebottle on Nov 23, 2019 15:54:36 GMT
I have done some comparative measurements of the 3 speaker leads I have used with my 57's.
First off some standard 2.5 mm sq figure 8 that's buried in the wall. Resistance 7.2 milliohm per meter. Capacitance 107p/meter.
Second the 2.5 mm sq OCC cable. Resistance 7.8 milliohm per meter. Capacitance 55p/meter.
Third the new Dream 2.63 mm sq OCC cable. Resistance 8.3 milliohm per meter. Capacitance 40p/meter.
Capacitance is conductor to conductor. All measurements done at 1KHz.
Make of them what you will.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2019 16:36:18 GMT
I have done some comparative measurements of the 3 speaker leads I have used with my 57's. First off some standard 2.5 mm sq figure 8 that's buried in the wall. Resistance 7.2 milliohm per meter. Capacitance 107p/meter. Second the 2.5 mm sq OCC cable. Resistance 7.8 milliohm per meter. Capacitance 55p/meter. Third the new Dream 2.63 mm sq OCC cable. Resistance 8.3 milliohm per meter. Capacitance 40p/meter. Capacitance is conductor to conductor. All measurements done at 1KHz. Make of them what you will. Thanks for doing that Al, I think it rules out some sort of magic beans as the reason they sound so good. |
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Post by sq225917 on Nov 23, 2019 17:10:21 GMT
You might not have intentionally twisted it but look at the loop above the plugs, lower right. That's a full turn right there.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2019 17:16:29 GMT
You might not have intentionally twisted it but look at the loop above the plugs, lower right. That's a full turn right there. A twisted pair suggests two wires twisted together, yes? That is not how these are made. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 17:30:42 GMT
Who cares a bout pears?
It’s all about the melons.....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 20:09:21 GMT
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