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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 13:26:09 GMT
Years ago when I was younger. I used to think having big name expensive costly systems was the ''be all and end all''. So yes, I was more naive and arrogant back then.
Nowadays I think the complete opposite. As I'm getting older my attitude towards certain brands has humble down a fair bit. Believe me, I'm not lying. I used to stick my nose up at NAD, Arcam, Cambridge Audio, Denon, and many other unsung hidden gems, etc.
Can happily live with a new amplifier & cd player, for example costing £300 each. As long the sound is good to my ears! Couldn't care less now if they are made in China.
S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 3, 2019 13:30:50 GMT
I’m still a bit snobbish towards certain stuff. Cambridge Audio would be one. They now produce some high end kit which looks well made, so maybe I will have to change. My Chi Fi snobbery was cured thanks to Geoff’s TPA3116 reccy,
I must admit to hating badly made kit. That includes thin, crappy casework, ratty cables and anything hair shirt. To me that’s not snobbery, it’s just being discerning.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 15:49:41 GMT
I’m still a bit snobbish towards certain stuff. Cambridge Audio would be one. They now produce some high end kit which looks well made, so maybe I will have to change. My Chi Fi snobbery was cured thanks to Geoff’s TPA3116 reccy, I must admit to hating badly made kit. That includes thin, crappy casework, ratty cables and anything hair shirt. To me that’s not snobbery, it’s just being discerning. Their higher end gear are good value for money and solidly built. S. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 10:41:20 GMT
I have a Chinese Ming Da amp (Dynasty Cadenza from Mark at Malvern) and it's very well built, there could be no complaints on that front.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 11:01:20 GMT
No snobbery here.
I do not care what the brand is, or how it looks. I am only interested in the sound and build quality. If it's good, its good. Doesn't matter who made it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 11:20:02 GMT
Which begs the question. Why do people fork out a massive percentage of the products cost in the OTT Enclosure when the electronics inside would perform in exactly the same way in a more down to earth enclosure?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 11:29:37 GMT
The question always arises in my mind why do DIY speakers built by somebody who knows their oats and using Pro drivers, invariably sound so much better than commercial speakers, costing one hell of a lot more.
Having a peek inside some very expensive speakers and comparing the drivers to some budget ones just tells me you are paying for the looks, name and finish only.
Have heard some cheap as chips Chinese amps that amaze me with the sound, and others that are awful.
That being said I abhor Rotel amplification, as much as I do Mark Levinson. And as far as Brand snobbery and price is concerned it can go to hell when there are powerful Chinese amps out there like Dussun that sound as good and in a lot of cases better than a lot of overpriced efforts from Europe and the States. Plus the build quality is first class and in some cases better.
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Post by macca on Oct 4, 2019 11:31:40 GMT
Which begs the question. Why do people fork out a massive percentage of the products cost in the OTT Enclosure when the electronics inside would perform in exactly the same way in a more down to earth enclosure? because most hi-fi people are retired professionals on good pensions with a shitload of money in the bank and they care what their gear looks like and are happy to pay a premium for it? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 11:35:06 GMT
Which begs the question. Why do people fork out a massive percentage of the products cost in the OTT Enclosure when the electronics inside would perform in exactly the same way in a more down to earth enclosure? WAF and bragging rights, please the wife, and stroke your own ego. Have no wife, and I am to old to care about my ego and the look of anything. Have a friend who is so deluded, he thinks because he has the most expensive Home Theater kit, that his 9 year old lads mates, would be embarrassed at what their dad's have at home in comparison. Takes all sorts. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 11:40:16 GMT
Which begs the question. Why do people fork out a massive percentage of the products cost in the OTT Enclosure when the electronics inside would perform in exactly the same way in a more down to earth enclosure? because most hi-fi people are retired professionals on good pensions with a shitload of money in the bank and they care what their gear looks like and are happy to pay a premium for it? Have you ever been into a proper wealthy persons Home? Even look at them on TV you will always seen small cheap TVs & Stereos. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 11:43:31 GMT
That being said I abhor Rotel amplification, as much as I do Mark Levinson. And as far as Brand snobbery and price is concerned it can go to hell when there are powerful Chinese amps out there like Dussun that sound as good and in a lot of cases better than a lot of overpriced efforts from Europe and the States. Plus the build quality is first class and in some cases better. But are ont Dussun an expensive product? I think the attraction to Chinese stuff is the cheap cost! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 11:44:55 GMT
Which begs the question. Why do people fork out a massive percentage of the products cost in the OTT Enclosure when the electronics inside would perform in exactly the same way in a more down to earth enclosure? because most hi-fi people are retired professionals on good pensions with a shitload of money in the bank and they care what their gear looks like and are happy to pay a premium for it? Being a tad deaf does not enter the equation, same attitude as 70 year old on a full dress Harley, if the bloody thing falls over he is screwed, if he tries to pick it up, he will need knee replacements, and a spinal operation. We should thank these rich blokes, because the high end kit, at least in this country, has the relative resale value of a second hand vacuum cleaner; it then gives blokes like me the opportunity of getting some fancy kit for a song. |
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Post by macca on Oct 4, 2019 11:50:33 GMT
because most hi-fi people are retired professionals on good pensions with a shitload of money in the bank and they care what their gear looks like and are happy to pay a premium for it? Have you ever been into a proper wealthy persons Home? Even look at them on TV you will always seen small cheap TVs & Stereos. I went to a blokes house once, he had a few quid. Put it this way, There was a fountain in the entrance hallway and just the hallway was larger than most people's houses. It was a big place. No hifi or tv at all. I know what you mean about the TV, very wealthy people don't seem bothered about watching TV. But if that very wealthy person is into hi-fi then it will be an expensive and good-looking hi-fi. I won't pay a premium just for it to look good. But I'm not wealthy, I have to watch were the money goes. Even if I was wealthy I'm probably too tight to pay the extra just for looks. But then I was poor for a long time so you get into that habit of being tight. Most wealthy people were never poor, so they don't look at things the same way. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 11:53:29 GMT
because most hi-fi people are retired professionals on good pensions with a shitload of money in the bank and they care what their gear looks like and are happy to pay a premium for it? Have you ever been into a proper wealthy persons Home? Even look at them on TV you will always seen small cheap TVs & Stereos. I was staying at my brother's place the other week and he's seriously loaded. There's a swimming pool, but no stereo of any kind. One decent TV to watch sports on though. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 11:54:39 GMT
That being said I abhor Rotel amplification, as much as I do Mark Levinson. And as far as Brand snobbery and price is concerned it can go to hell when there are powerful Chinese amps out there like Dussun that sound as good and in a lot of cases better than a lot of overpriced efforts from Europe and the States. Plus the build quality is first class and in some cases better. But are ont Dussun an expensive product? I think the attraction to Chinese stuff is the cheap cost! For what you get power wise Dussun is cheap, at least in this country, a Dussun V8i will cost under 1,300 quid, not that I am a fan of powerful amps, and pig to drive speakers there is always something you are not happy with. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 11:59:25 GMT
Have you ever been into a proper wealthy persons Home? Even look at them on TV you will always seen small cheap TVs & Stereos. I went to a blokes house once, he had a few quid. Put it this way, There was a fountain in the entrance hallway and just the hallway was larger than most people's houses. It was a big place. No hifi or tv at all. I know what you mean about the TV, very wealthy people don't seem bothered about watching TV. But if that very wealthy person is into hi-fi then it will be an expensive and good-looking hi-fi. I won't pay a premium just for it to look good. But I'm not wealthy, I have to watch were the money goes. Even if I was wealthy I'm probably too tight to pay the extra just for looks. But then I was poor for a long time so you get into that habit of being tight. Most wealthy people were never poor, so they don't look at things the same way. I once saw a programme on TV where a weathy dude was driving around the sludge & mud grounds in an Aston Martin 'DB6'.. Suppose its warmer than a Land Rover  But as you say Wealthy people dont value stuff in the same way its just a way of life & a product to do the job, This is where you can spot a pretend wealthy person a mile off. |
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Post by macca on Oct 4, 2019 12:06:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 12:48:16 GMT
You actually read through 6 Moons reviews, I never make it past the first paragraph. Like reading car road tests these days all a load of bollocks, and ranting about the info system All I know is in a direct comparison using Zingali Twenty Evo 1.2 speakers the Dussun V8i urinated on the Audio Analogue Maestro Anniversary at 7,000 quid as did the Perreaux Eloquence 150i at 4,500 pounds. And that was the conclusion of 5 of us. As far as reviews go I use them as an indication only, I let my own ears make the decision. For example the late Wes Phillips from Stereofool, said the Vivid Audio Giya G1 was the best speaker he had ever heard. My take, I have heard this speaker at least 4 times in different blokes expensive systems, and to my ear the Vivid range of speakers ( I have heard just about all of them), are among of the worst sounding high end speakers I have ever heard. Along with all the Wilson Audios I have heard to date. And both of those brands get rave reviews. Levinson an B&W get rave reviews, to my ear they are complete shyt! The B&W 800 D2 is a dog looking for a place to drop a pud. Go figure. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 13:30:21 GMT
there must be enough rich people who do buy hifi or the likes of Vox Olympians, Wilson, Magico etc wouldn't exist. People with the money and interest to splash north of 100K on speakers aren't exactly common.
I dont subscribe to the fancy case hiding mediocre innards style of hifi, but certainly once the innards are of a standard, the casework starts to matter too. But many people buy with their eyes first
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 13:52:19 GMT
That Dayton 'APA-150' amp is suppose to be a lotta amp for the money. The only thing i noticed was a cooling fan in the back, that put me off straight away. I personally think Chinese amps are ok, providing the Mains transformer are designed for 240V and not 220V pawned off as 240. Aslo thru experience of the ones ive had they generally use shite Electrolytic Caps that need swapping out for long term imho....
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Post by macca on Oct 4, 2019 14:38:33 GMT
You actually read through 6 Moons reviews, I never make it past the first paragraph. Like reading car road tests these days all a load of bollocks, and ranting about the info system All I know is in a direct comparison using Zingali Twenty Evo 1.2 speakers the Dussun V8i urinated on the Audio Analogue Maestro Anniversary at 7,000 quid as did the Perreaux Eloquence 150i at 4,500 pounds. And that was the conclusion of 5 of us. As far as reviews go I use them as an indication only, I let my own ears make the decision. For example the late Wes Phillips from Stereofool, said the Vivid Audio Giya G1 was the best speaker he had ever heard. My take, I have heard this speaker at least 4 times in different blokes expensive systems, and to my ear the Vivid range of speakers ( I have heard just about all of them), are among of the worst sounding high end speakers I have ever heard. Along with all the Wilson Audios I have heard to date. And both of those brands get rave reviews. Levinson an B&W get rave reviews, to my ear they are complete shyt! The B&W 800 D2 is a dog looking for a place to drop a pud. Go figure. I skimmed it I never read it in full, they are always chock full of waffle - although this one wasn't so bad. I've just never seen a negative review on 6 Moons before which is why I made the comment. These days I don't put faith anyone elses' subjective opinion. A few people I know who I might give a bit of weight to theirs. But there's no substitute for having a listen yourself. Ideally at home where you can swap in different cables or partnering equipment and generally experiment. I don't have to swap much in my system to make it sound Sh#t and no-one who just came in for a listen would know what component was responsible for the crap sound. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 14:47:21 GMT
I always go straight to the 'conclusions' when I'm reading reviews.
S.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 14:48:08 GMT
That Dayton 'APA-150' amp is suppose to be a lotta amp for the money. The only thing i noticed was a cooling fan in the back, that put me off straight away. I personally think Chinese amps are ok, providing the Mains transformer are designed for 240V and not 220V pawned off as 240. Aslo thru experience of the ones ive had they generally use shite Electrolytic Caps that need swapping out for long term imho.... Love the speaker stands no pretensions there. Also the one speaker corner loaded and the other back firing into space. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 14:54:20 GMT
I personally find specialised speaker stand utter BS
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 4, 2019 15:43:30 GMT
I always go straight to the 'conclusions' when I'm reading reviews. S. Me too. The bit that always pisses me right off is when they spend half the page taking about the recordings. NOT FUCKING INTERESTED. You’re reviewing a piece of hifi, not some wanky album I don’t own and have no wish to hear. Worse still was HFNRR which devoted pages to bloody record reviews. Who the F#ck cares? Go buy a music publication if you want that shite. Feel better now  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 16:23:15 GMT
Ballerkz to reviews & the same fer specs. That reviewers lug holes aint mine.. Only job reviews are for are people starting out with no idea what so ever imho. Gives them a rough idea.
Your idea of sound will more than likely be the polar opposite of mine.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 4, 2019 16:26:24 GMT
I used to get something from reviews, but not in the way they were intended. If an utter knob like Keywood or Gold hated something, I figured it would be ok. If Malcolm Steward of Jimmy Hughes liked something I also figured it had merit. The rest of the bunch, I just looked at the pics.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 16:30:49 GMT
Well i see it like this. If they say its Sh#t, its not Sh#t & the same for being good, its not good  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 16:32:04 GMT
My old Rotal receiver was fantastic sound quality.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2019 16:37:22 GMT
Someone on this fora hates Rotel! Not heard a lot of the modern ones but the old ones from the 70's sounded good to my ears the 'RA311' & 'RA611'.. If its the 'RAX' Recieiers from the late 70's they sounded good enough for any man.
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But as you say Wealthy people dont value stuff in the same way its just a way of life & a product to do the job, This is where you can spot a pretend wealthy person a mile off. 
