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Post by macca on Feb 18, 2021 21:44:33 GMT
that's ace. Don't know a thing about art but I'd have any of those that you've shown us so far on my wall.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 2:20:41 GMT
Very kind. I'd pass on your compliment but the problem is ...when she gets flattered she gets all excited and it could lead to all sorts of trouble. Last time she tried to kiss me and lord knows what would have happened if I hadn't feigned a bad back. 🤢
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Post by rexton on Feb 21, 2021 13:55:00 GMT
Today, I contemplate what to do with my valve front end....
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Post by rexton on Feb 21, 2021 13:56:44 GMT
Today I had my first Covid jab, the staff were very impressed by my kilt. Under-crackers or no under-crackers?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2021 14:45:49 GMT
I knew you'd drag the whole thing down a level. 🙄
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Post by macca on Feb 21, 2021 15:36:16 GMT
Bought a new oil-filled radiator as the old one decided to pack it in this morning.
New one doesn't get here until Tuesday though so got no heating until then. Good job it chose to die during this relatively mild spell we're having.
No warning from it, just straight to the fireworks. Made me spill a cup of tea.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 21, 2021 15:49:49 GMT
Bought a new oil-filled radiator as the old one decided to pack it in this morning. New one doesn't get here until Tuesday though so got no heating until then. Good job it chose to die during this relatively mild spell we're having. No warning from it, just straight to the fireworks. Made me spill a cup of tea. Hahahaha.....🤣 Mental image
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Post by gninnam on Feb 21, 2021 20:12:05 GMT
Today I.... Removed the fuel filter from the petrol tank but need a new fuel pipe as the old one is not in good nick Moved the heater cable connectors on the heat exchangers to the top - need to sort out some connectors. Washed the wife's car. Stripped wall paper off a wall - between the middle room and the sun room (which houses my hifi) it has an arch so I am going to remove the arch and put doors in.
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Post by misterc on Feb 22, 2021 18:07:45 GMT
Today has been rather hectic, built a wardrobe for the good lady, constructed a squirl proof feeder (lol) took a Solution 710 power amplifier apart, constructing a new test best for a product we have been working on (non audio). Upgraded a customers QP-1 to twin rails. Also finished bench testing Tony's new psu for the twin Mutec approach in my development system now cleaning up the lab and listening to some rather spiffing tunes
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Post by firebottle on Feb 22, 2021 18:29:11 GMT
Today I am freshly amazed at how incredibly good CD's sound. I have to agree with Macca on this one, Red Book 16/44.1 can sound stunning and is really all you need.
Big but.. it needs a dac that make the music sound real. I think I have come to the realisation of why all previous digital playback has sounded too forward, or in your face if you like. Not meaning over bright as such but something falsely impactful with leading edges, it's always sounded 'too sudden'.
I am thinking it is the pre-ringing on leading edges as a byproduct of delta sigma conversion, perhaps not that simple. Anyway the conclusion is clear, get one of the modern R-2R dacs and things sound natural and so good.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 19:01:12 GMT
Today I rebuilt a pair of Girling 14LF callipers, fitting stainless pistons in the process. I then fitted and bled the brakes and took the car for a quick spin.
🏎
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Post by misterc on Feb 22, 2021 19:33:56 GMT
I would be very interested in your impressions after the weekend. Hi Antonio
It did take a little long that anticipated due to house hold jobs and customers orders.
So currently I am listening to the set up with the twin Mutec MC3+ approach with the new psu powering them both. Plus not gown any extra arms and legs since my Covid jab last Thursday Its been on the bench being well and truly tested and measured and over stretched so it was ready for the system this afternoon.
Photographic progress of the way the world turned since the last update.
Just the tidying up to sort out at this point
All buttoned up and working ready for testing
Where it all happens...
Total requirement for the twin Mutec MC3+ approach
Measurements of ripple on the DC lines at 1.2amps of load at the DUT displaying a quite amazing 8.6uv of noise in laymans terms it is incredibly quiet and very robust while being used not at idle.
Just to check the readings, the scale of readings are 440nv per division
Lastly the psu and second Mutec now in the system.
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Post by antonio on Feb 23, 2021 0:49:41 GMT
^^^^^^^^^^^ I see the world is keeping you busy. Now all we need are some impressions of what a second Mutec does over and above only using one Note to Bigman:- Where's the Popcorn smiley Oli
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Post by antonio on Feb 23, 2021 0:53:00 GMT
Today I am freshly amazed at how incredibly good CD's sound. I have to agree with Macca on this one, Red Book 16/44.1 can sound stunning and is really all you need. Big but.. it needs a dac that make the music sound real. I think I have come to the realisation of why all previous digital playback has sounded too forward, or in your face if you like. Not meaning over bright as such but something falsely impactful with leading edges, it's always sounded 'too sudden'. I am thinking it is the pre-ringing on leading edges as a byproduct of delta sigma conversion, perhaps not that simple. Anyway the conclusion is clear, get one of the modern R-2R dacs and things sound natural and so good. Very pleased you're enjoying the Pegasus, and since I have been doing some research into digital cables of late can I ask what cable are you using between between cdp and dac?
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Post by firebottle on Feb 23, 2021 9:34:45 GMT
Funny you should ask. I use an RCA to XLR adapter cable plugged into the AES input on the dac. Cable bought from one of the pro cable suppliers, can't find the details now.
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Post by misterc on Feb 23, 2021 10:07:17 GMT
Now all we need are some impressions of what a second Mutec does over and above only using one Hi Antonio The second Mutec takes the system in to uncharted territory with regard to its ability to bring you into the actual recording space, not in the room that basic and easily achieved , but really into the musicians environment where they created that piece of music you are listening to, its that simple. I could on about how depth, texture etc, but that isn't the point. It's just recreating acoustic apace in a way I have never heard before anywhere. Bold statement the current configuration is imply the most natural, fluid open window to sound I have genuinely ever heard whatever the format involved it just makes you sit down and listening to everything and its still improving, both the Mutec and the psu are chocked full of new components and will take a week or so to really hit the settled in point. A very worthwhile exercise and then some
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Post by antonio on Feb 24, 2021 2:09:52 GMT
"The second Mutec takes the system in to uncharted territory" Makes you sound like one of those old explorers searching for new lands and not that there's anything wrong with that. Do you think this would work with other re-clockers, I'm using a Oehlbach (purchased at the bargain price of £55 inc post when on offer) I didn't just mean this one but as you know there are quite a few others out there. Don't think my brother would want to buy another dCS clock, mind you I don't think that is a re-clocker, just a better clock. I've read a few dCS Vivaldi users are using the Mutec 10?, but don't think this is not compatible with the Rossini. Do you have any customers using the Mutec 3 with the Rossini?
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Post by misterc on Feb 24, 2021 9:18:42 GMT
Don't think my brother would want to buy another dCS clock, mind you I don't think that is a re-clocker, just a better clock. I've read a few dCS Vivaldi users are using the Mutec 10?, but don't think this is not compatible with the Rossini. Do you have any customers using the Mutec 3 with the Rossini? Antonio Currently we have around thirty full stack Vivaldi clients using either a Ref 10 or SE-120 versions it is used to 'clock' the DCS Vivaldi clock to a much higher standard it outputs @ 10Mhz DCS & Esoteric have the option of using dual AES/SPDIF digital outputs (IE: one data line per channel) this is done @ the native sample rate format or if using their up-sampler to 24/192 or DSD options. Does your brother have the player or the dac and how does actually use this in relation to his system?
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Post by antonio on Feb 24, 2021 11:20:42 GMT
^^^^^^ He has the Rossini dac and clock, and they are connected using two SPDIF BNC cables, strangely enough he has just purchased a pair of cables to replace the stock leads which came with the clock, and are winging their way to him as we speak. Ethernet is the input used for the dac and RCA outputs to the amplifier.
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Post by misterc on Feb 24, 2021 11:46:54 GMT
^^^^^^ He has the Rossini dac and clock, and they are connected using two SPDIF BNC cables, strangely enough he has just purchased a pair of cables to replace the stock leads which came with the clock, and are winging their way to him as we speak. Ethernet is the input used for the dac and RCA outputs to the amplifier. Antonio How does he feed the dac from the digital source, usb/AES/SPDIF or ADAT light pipe? Also is he using a dcs or esoteric source?
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Post by antonio on Feb 24, 2021 14:08:11 GMT
It's a dCs Rossini dac and clock and this is how it connects to the source:
"He has a custom-built computer running as a Roon Core. It connects to the Rossini DAC by ethernet cable only. There is no USB/AES/SPDIF. The Rossini DAC connects to the Rossini Clock using 2 BNC-connected digital cables. The Rossini DAC connects to the amplifier using RCA interconnects. The Roon core connects to the router with a second ethernet cable."
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Post by misterc on Feb 24, 2021 15:40:07 GMT
It's a dCs Rossini dac and clock and this is how it connects to the source: "He has a custom-built computer running as a Roon Core. It connects to the Rossini DAC by ethernet cable only. There is no USB/AES/SPDIF. The Rossini DAC connects to the Rossini Clock using 2 BNC-connected digital cables. The Rossini DAC connects to the amplifier using RCA interconnects. The Roon core connects to the router with a second ethernet cable."
OK RJ45 done correctly is one of the better ways, I use this method with my exploratory reference model we design streamers from. I have two pairs though one pair for the internal ref clocks and the other pairs for left and right data transfer. tried to custom clocks on the north-bridge and CPU saved to the SE-120+ Using AI data transfer methods for PCIE data transfer with custom data lanes and mother board layouts. Only uses 12W power at max.
So basically you are using the average Rossini clock just purely to provide word clock references @ 44.1Khz and 48Khz derivatives.
A couple of observations Antonio, Roon while being a great file organiser and music library correlator, is actually very average at audio playback (you could use Bubble UPnP it is the best free one available non geeky obsessed playback out there plus it works and is ultra stable) Running ANY DCS dac direct is losing out to its available performance (DCS internal pre amps are average) also the DCS works best driving fully balanced outputs
The MC3+ need to extract an incoming timing signal from the PCM data stream to enable the re-clocking circuitry to operate, it can serve as a stand alone work clock generator and distributor (four fully configurable word clock outputs). In your Brother current configuration he has tied himself down a tight path.
You could look at RJ45 re-clocking devices tied to master clock plus for Ethernet the best cable I have ever used there is the Crystal cable Ultimate dream II? stunning but so is the cost. I cannot make my conductors quite small enough to fit in the older RJ45 plugs. However now trhe new twisted pair format for the higher bandwidths was launched last year hats all changed
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Post by stevew on Feb 24, 2021 16:42:22 GMT
A year ago I would have agreed about Roon. At that time Audirvana easily outperformed it. However from Nov I’ve had the $1 for 3 month trial, and it’s been great. The latest iteration of Roon from a week or so ago has pushed the performance even more, and its outstanding. My trial ends any day now and I’ll be keeping it.
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Post by antonio on Feb 24, 2021 16:50:28 GMT
I'm not very technical minded, so I'll keep things simple. I know inside the server there is a JCat ethernet card, and eventually when we get it, a HDPlex PS hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-500w-atx-linear-power-supply-with-modular-atx-output.html will power the server, at the moment two LPS are used, one for the server and one for the JCat, I'm unsure, but think we will still have to have a LPS for the JCat. An Audioquest Vodka ethernet cable connects the Dac to the server, cables haven't really been thought about since we have been waiting for this HDPlex PS, it's been oiut of stock for over a year, but is due back in again soon. I know we have tried the latest dCS app but really could not tell any difference between it and Roon, the advantage of Roon is it is so fast and easy, maybe my brother will try something else, ie your suggestion Bubble UPnP. We didn't find the dCS internal pre -amp to be a weak point preferring it to his Audio Research Ref.6, and using it to control both an Audionet power amp and then Accustic Art monos. It's back to an Audionet intergrated amplifier now, and they recommend RCA's, and if, as you say dCS is better going balanced what do you do? While I remember, we were advised to try both usb and ethernet inputs on the dCS to see which we preferred, and from what we've heard many othe dCS users have also gone for ethernet.
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Post by misterc on Feb 24, 2021 17:35:28 GMT
Antonio
Ethernet is infinitely preferable to usb that's an easy one start with. They are many different implementations of audio over Ethernet but I have find them all to be generally good the niggles with the protocol and the rx/tx has been ironed out now.
Without question the DCS is far more listenable and enjoyable with a proper active line pre amplifier, I demonstrate this very regularly which is why I have a Vivaldi from which to perform this.
All of the DCS customers without exception that we have ALL use a dedicated pre amp, last chap just traded his AR 40th Anniversary pre for a Momentum unit. 3 light years difference between the two.
Personally not an AR fan at all, though the older stuff with the more rich texted sound was to my ears more listenable, the newer stuff is very detail orientated with larger sound staging, but lacks real three dimensions and layering, trailing note decay. Again this is personal preference and AR have many happy UK and world customers.
Suggestion here Both T + A and Audionet amplifiers can be liken to a German Naim sound, I used to have Audionet amps in the past nicely constructed, same for AVM etc (we actually asked to distribute those a few years ago) Try a different amplifier around the same price bracket sometimes left field thinking pays off
Not having to use the dcs app or Roon, I do not wish to lose performance of my playback systems.
Besides its only a control app you could try Linn Kinksi/ Lumin's offering is also fine. The best off the shelf app I have used is Fidata one and there products are rather good to, so far second only to (commercially available products) the Takio.
You can go making psu's for pc based streams, I built a way silly ulta mad 7 rail output with programmable stepped rail intro to accommodate the various aspects of PC switching on a different times. Three custom toroids, fully cnc custom enclosure with individual REAL Faraday cadges for each Tx, custom umbilical mil-spec Lemo large current connectors all the toys. Yes it did bring the noise floor down significantly and you could hear the detail coming through and starting to layer so he was a happy chappie. Customer is always right.
However they are many other ways to skin a cat.
On the whole though you guys are going well in the right direction
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Post by antonio on Feb 24, 2021 18:14:54 GMT
I know one thing MrC, it won't be the amplifier that get's moved on, unless for a Stern/Heisenburg combination, and possibly a Gryphon. We've heard much more expensive amplifiers than the Humboldt, yes they sound fantastic until you have to listen for more than 30 minutes. Don't we all go down a tight path as you say, when we invest what we can afford, in any source. I remember owning a LP12, which had been upgraded quite considerably, only to hear an Amazon tt at Walrus, would have loved to changed but the amount of money I would lose in selling the LP12 stopped me doing this. I think looking at the mains will probably be the next upgrade, if there is to be an next upgrade, he's very happy the way the system sounds now, although I'm sure he would love to hear a Taiko or Antipodes K50.
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Post by misterc on Feb 24, 2021 19:18:57 GMT
Well Antonio
Over the years I have personally owned six Gryphon units two pairs of mono's and two stereo chassis (The last pair were colosseum towers) Effortless understated sweet open power drive pretty much any know speaker in this universe and beyond everything you could wish for in amplifier and you could listen for hours without fatigue just one thing missing for myself MUSICAL involvement, though they were a bit slow in all honesty but polar opposites from what your brother has right now. Both excellent, though for different reasons. In essence a Germanic hifi sound V's a Danish non Krell like Krell
I remember Les @ Walrus the first time I went in, tried to convince me of merits of a Musical Fidelity back in the day when I was on the other side of counter. Great guy even better sense of humour.
My thoughts here quite opposite most dealers,I feel the ultra high end is a total con,yes it is beautifully built, keeps those pot hunting trophy guys in Asia/Russia/India very contented and will grace any financially astute persona abode. However the real PERFORMANCE stars are in the upper mid range, they just do not have such large casework or laser etched surfaces. So for the Antwerp/Singapore/Moscow/NY dealers its a bit low brow!
There are a few of us designers that like to stretch the boundaries a wee bit and can really chase the so called best so hard it gives us a smile that my enjoyment factor.
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Post by antonio on Feb 25, 2021 1:33:21 GMT
You mentioned Fidata as being he best you have heard, I assumed it must be something to do with these people, fidelizer-audio.com/ which I use their free app on my mini pc, only used to play music from an external HD, but I see it's not. When I looked on the Fidata website I realised I had infact heard of them, but do not know much about their products. I see you can get their app from Google Play, would you happen to know if it's free?, I've got to sort out my mini pc, at present just using free Foobar 2000 with Windows 10, and Volumio has been recommended to me, which would get rid of Window 10. That will have to wait until I return to the uk, I need help in installing it onto my pc. I fully agree with your thoughts on ultra hi-end, not only that, from what we heard, it sounds like hifi and not music. Sorry, nearly forgot to ask, would a Mutec 3 be compatible with the Rossini the way my brother has his system configured at present?
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Post by misterc on Feb 25, 2021 13:40:12 GMT
You mentioned Fidata as being he best you have heard, I assumed it must be something to do with these people, fidelizer-audio.com/ which I use their free app on my mini pc, only used to play music from an external HD, but I see it's not. When I looked on the Fidata website I realised I had infact heard of them, but do not know much about their products. I see you can get their app from Google Play, would you happen to know if it's free?, I've got to sort out my mini pc, at present just using free Foobar 2000 with Windows 10, and Volumio has been recommended to me, which would get rid of Window 10. That will have to wait until I return to the uk, I need help in installing it onto my pc. I fully agree with your thoughts on ultra hi-end, not only that, from what we heard, it sounds like hifi and not music. Sorry, nearly forgot to ask, would a Mutec 3 be compatible with the Rossini the way my brother has his system configured at present? Antonio The Fidata is the second best commercially available player I have listened to, their app is accessed through the factory website when you activate their products from memory. Tad uses these players in their playback suite at their HQ I am lead to believe. Foobar is a solid SW player but not so good sound wise, but on the whole glitch free and has the sacd apps to plus well supported unlike many others. Volumio Its just to much faffing around and blowing SD card every time they release a new patch to cope whit the Qoboz/Tidal or Spotify updates for most normal listeners imho. The Antipoles is a bit of a two edged sword, I had a great evening with the Kiwi Designer/Distributor @ Munich a few years back some great ideas there plus he was a real card . Though reliability on a few of the UK units has not been so good and although the chap has first rate customer service skills its half way around the world if anything more than a board swap out for most distributors means a RTB for the unit involved I believe The way your brother has the his current set up clocking wise is fine (yes a better clock frequency distribution unit would improve things) the cost implications for the return in THAT configuration may be prohibitive. As the Rossini clock has the ability to generate the two specific frequency rates that the DCS requires for the various sample rates (multiples of 44.1Khz and 48Khz) But it is not actually re-clocking the audio data stream before it enters the Rossini dac. The DCS stacks uses twin AES/EBU lanes after using the Vivaldi up-sampler/streamer then feeds the dac via 2 AES lines or 1 depending on your budget for cables BUT these are all clock sync'd via the DCS Vivaldi master clock which again differentiates between the varies sample rates and auto changes accordingly. The Mutec Ref 10 SE-120 is a master reference 10Mhz clock this is used to 'slave' the DCS Vivaldi clock which in turn has a very positive effect on the various sample rates clock signals that the dac/transport and up sampler receive. The other method would be use two MC3+ in parallel so one for each data channel and slave each of the MC3+ via a master clock (Ref 10) and in turn the MC3+ are also used a word clock output which will adjust to the various sample rate derivatives this method is BIG step up from a DCS Vivaldi clock at under 50% of the DCS cost. Though remember it does not have DCS written on it which for more of the financially astute owners is something of a taboo. Or you could use one of these as your brothers using a PC based device he can install Dante control anyway. Dante' controlled AoiP converterA few years ago I wrote my own no compromise PC playback software using a memory buffer to load each album with dedicated ultra quiet psu supplying the specific nand style memory chips which were tied to a ultra low phase noise clock which also slaved the CPU and North-bridge. One I still use today for seriously listening in my home system, its clunky has a crappy GUI but it sounds oh so good! so i put up with it. but then I can other not so much!!
Which is why Roon scores, but as for being quality playback software its ok imho.
OH the other reason I sold the the big Gryphons is that the amps idle @ 3.2Kw (each) lol so that equated to around another £400 a month on the utilities outgoings
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Post by antonio on Feb 25, 2021 16:22:43 GMT
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