Arke
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Post by Arke on Dec 11, 2023 14:05:48 GMT
. . . . okay. Also: I take your points (genuienly) however I think there may be some slight difference of opinion (in regards to any required 'control' of claims made) between a DIY community (albeit a very reasonable and keenly priced one) for services, and a retail venture requiring full accountability, proof, verification etc. I think that's where the disagreements are born. On the contrary Arke backs up his claims regarding the quality of his products with measurements - which is a damn sight more than 90 percent of commercial speaker manufacturers do. Just occurred to me but if you look back through the thread it was Arke who was challenging my subjective impression (That I have never heard any device improve with break in). So who's zooming who?  Martin, until a year ago, I had had the same experience as you - I had never been able to notice the difference between a new and run in component. I have been into HiFi for 32years and never once categorically heard a discernible difference post break-in (electronics or speakers). My view *was* that people just get used to sound and nothing actually changes. It is only over the last year that I have had identical speakers in a room pre and post run in. I was surprised that there was a noticeable difference. Is it a big (subjective) difference? Well, that is the $64000 question. To me yes, to my wife probably not! When I compared my speakers (run in) to a non run in pair I couldn't listen to the new pair when my run in pair was available (sorry Chris!). The non broken in pair had a flat soundstage, edgy midrange and HF and loose bass. OK, they were still great speakers, but thoroughly unenjoyable compared to the run in pair. The new pair were (relatively) uncomfortable to listen to! They were broken in when I wasn't in the room. After about a week (maybe 100Hrs run in) I couldn't discern any difference. For the record, I have not experienced a difference in electronics over time. I may sometimes perceive a change over a few hours, days or months but I do not know if that is just me imagining it. @bigman80 Happy to move the run-in vs new chat to another thread if you prefer? |
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Post by bencat on Dec 11, 2023 14:55:15 GMT
Just because you do not hear it , does that mean it does not happen ?
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Post by misterc on Dec 11, 2023 14:55:56 GMT
Jason
I'm sure Martin may even agree here as speakers have mechanical elements to them as well as eletronic ones.
I'm with you I can't cope with brand new speakers at all, currently I am running ion a pair for a client upto 300 hours another week and they'll be song.
Although my new personal speakers will be here in about 4 weeks, so the process starts all over again lol
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 11, 2023 15:42:59 GMT
Well......usual bullshit aside,
I have spent a few days listening to the Reiymo now, and i am of the opinion that it's quite possibly the best DAC i have heard.
My wait for the other piece of the puzzle is continuing to cause me impatience. I have ordered a new Wireworld AES Eclipse 8 cable, as i think the tonality of this dac will be fully unlocked with another decent bit of copper. The silver cables i have do not seem to get the best out of the Reiymo. Same goes with 75OHM cables, it just loses density and weight, so using AES with this DAC is my weapon of choice.
Some of you eagle eyed audioaddicts may have noticed that the Reiymo is on eBay. This is not by choice i am afraid, but for the first time i have possibly not read the room correctly regarding how i funded this DAC purchase. I don't HAVE to sell it, but i think it's probably best to. However, after hearing it i think this is going to be very hard to say goodbye to it.
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Post by mikeyb on Dec 11, 2023 17:09:41 GMT
Are there too many 0s 😳
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 11, 2023 17:15:21 GMT
No, it's just 30x better than a Topping E30ii.  |
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Post by mikeyb on Dec 11, 2023 17:16:22 GMT
No, it's just 30x better than a Topping E30ii. Thought the next post was going to be not enough 1s 😂 |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 11, 2023 17:18:20 GMT
Nope. It's a SERIOUS DAC. |
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Post by mikeyb on Dec 11, 2023 17:19:18 GMT
Nope. It's a SERIOUS DAC. I don't doubt it |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 11, 2023 17:21:57 GMT
No, it's just 30x better than a Topping E30ii. Maybe 25x |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 11, 2023 17:22:31 GMT
Nope. It's a SERIOUS DAC. I don't doubt it Honestly Mike, I've heard a LOT of DACs. None have sounded like this one. It's bonkers. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 13, 2023 12:11:11 GMT
What is it with digital?! I have spent a few days with the Reimyo, swapping cables, swapping cable types, swapping sources, taking the Mutec out and putting it back in...then taking it out again, and it just seems to defy logic. The Reiymo is the FIRST DAC I have had here that seems to not like the Mutec. With the Mutec in, it gets all lean and pushy in the HF, but take the Mutec out and the sound is absolutely divine, i really mean that. I know the tests/science suggest that in real terms the Mutec *shouldn't* improve any DAC, but my personal experience has been that it has. See here: goldensound.audio/2021/10/05/mutec-mc3-usb-ddc-reclocker-measurements/The question is why would the Reiymo be different? Anyway, as of right now, the Reiymo is being fed directly by the X50D via a Cleareraudio RCA to BNC 75ohm cable. It sounds phenomenal. |
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Post by pete on Dec 13, 2023 13:06:37 GMT
What is it with digital?! I have spent a few days with the Reimyo, swapping cables, swapping cable types, swapping sources, taking the Mutec out and putting it back in...then taking it out again, and it just seems to defy logic. The Reiymo is the FIRST DAC I have had here that seems to not like the Mutec. With the Mutec in, it gets all lean and pushy in the HF, but take the Mutec out and the sound is absolutely divine, i really mean that. I know the tests/science suggest that in real terms the Mutec *shouldn't* improve any DAC, but my personal experience has been that it has. See here: goldensound.audio/2021/10/05/mutec-mc3-usb-ddc-reclocker-measurements/The question is why would the Reiymo be different? Anyway, as of right now, the Reiymo is being fed directly by the X50D via a Cleareraudio RCA to BNC 75ohm cable. It sounds phenomenal. Maybe you could sell your Mutec and some leads instead of this amazing DAC??! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 13, 2023 13:09:10 GMT
What is it with digital?! I have spent a few days with the Reimyo, swapping cables, swapping cable types, swapping sources, taking the Mutec out and putting it back in...then taking it out again, and it just seems to defy logic. The Reiymo is the FIRST DAC I have had here that seems to not like the Mutec. With the Mutec in, it gets all lean and pushy in the HF, but take the Mutec out and the sound is absolutely divine, i really mean that. I know the tests/science suggest that in real terms the Mutec *shouldn't* improve any DAC, but my personal experience has been that it has. See here: goldensound.audio/2021/10/05/mutec-mc3-usb-ddc-reclocker-measurements/The question is why would the Reiymo be different? Anyway, as of right now, the Reiymo is being fed directly by the X50D via a Cleareraudio RCA to BNC 75ohm cable. It sounds phenomenal. Maybe you could sell your Mutec and some leads instead of this amazing DAC??! I was having that very thought. |
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Post by brucew268 on Dec 13, 2023 18:07:57 GMT
Maybe you could sell your Mutec and some leads instead of this amazing DAC??! I was having that very thought. Here is the thing though. You tend to change DAC's the way jandl100 changes components. So if the Reimyo is not your forever DAC this year and next and the next... forever, you'll just be buying a Mutec again. |
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Post by antonio on Dec 14, 2023 1:19:45 GMT
John (Lurch) sold his Mutec when he purchased his Innuous, preferring it's more 'musical' ( ) presentation without the Mutec. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 14, 2023 7:59:40 GMT
I was having that very thought. Here is the thing though. You tend to change DAC's the way jandl100 changes components. So if the Reimyo is not your forever DAC this year and next and the next... forever, you'll just be buying a Mutec again. You're absolutely right. I would never get another Mutec for the price i paid for this one, so it's a bit of a crazy idea to flog it, i agree. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 14, 2023 8:00:43 GMT
John (Lurch) sold his Mutec when he purchased his Innuous, preferring it's more 'musical' ( ) presentation without the Mutec. It's tonality Dave, not musicality .... Quantifiable!  |
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 14, 2023 8:10:20 GMT
John (Lurch) sold his Mutec when he purchased his Innuous, preferring it's more 'musical' ( ) presentation without the Mutec. It's tonality Dave, not musicality .... Quantifiable! I bet you couldn't actually measure any difference in frequency response. With digital it's flat or it's broken. Ah, but musicality, now there's a thing! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 14, 2023 9:05:45 GMT
It's tonality Dave, not musicality .... Quantifiable! I bet you couldn't actually measure any difference in frequency response. With digital it's flat or it's broken. Ah, but musicality, now there's a thing! If only it were that simple ay. Measurements telling us the whole story.....now, that's a website we need |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2023 22:24:43 GMT
Caution! Controversial post ahead
Since Maccas visit here, I have limited the digitally ripped music I have listened to, to anything that I physically own on CD and can rip myself. Anything I once downloaded has been banished to the garage system.
However, there was an album I had on CD that has somehow become scratched to biggery, so I decided to look for it again.
Upon seeing the price, I pulled it off the hard drive in the garage instead.
It was in FLAC, I listened, and wasn't overly taken with it. So I converted it to WAV, and just like that, it was there!
The flac sounded smoother, less dynamic and sort of placid. In WAV, it was crunchier, more dynamic and lively.
I didn't think this was possible, so I pulled a few others and converted them to WAV...they all sounded better to me.
Has anyone else found this?
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Post by misterc on Dec 16, 2023 22:29:41 GMT
There should be ZERO difference after all its loss less compression.
My advice for the last 15 years when ripping has been if the disc is hot rip WAV, if its flat rip FLAC
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 16, 2023 22:58:29 GMT
There should be ZERO difference after all its loss less compression. My advice for the last 15 years when ripping has been if the disc is hot rip WAV, if its flat rip FLAC Agreed, there should be zero difference |
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Post by macca on Dec 17, 2023 8:37:22 GMT
Shouldn't be to hard to blind test between WAV and FLAC - if you can identify which is which 9 times out of 10 then there's a difference.
I'm sure this was done years ago and no-one tested scored any better than chance.
BTW 'Tonality' is determined by frequency response - unless you've also got large amounts of 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion ( as with vinyl).
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Post by bencat on Dec 17, 2023 9:14:33 GMT
I have a download of Richard Thompson - Amnesia Album in Hi Res from Qobuz . They offer it in 24/96 Flac and 24/96 WAV and once bought you can download both . So I did and they both reside on my HD . Using LMS I can pull the album up with both versions listed one after the other and can then random play them so any listener can only tell which version was being played by looking at the play list after they had heard the track . Not any sort of rigorous scientific blind testing but good enough to force any listener to just say what they heard without any bias .
Did a couple of tests myself , then did the same when some friends came round , then asked my wife Linda to listen . So far no one has with any certainty been able to identify any of the tracks as either Flac or WAV and as for me even when I know which version is playing I am not able to say which is which . I will continue to use Flac and accept that my system and my ears are just not good enough to be able to tell the difference .
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Post by macca on Dec 17, 2023 9:36:54 GMT
Have you tried the opposite experiment? Cue the visitor by telling them there is a difference and challenge them to pick up on it. Play them both versions telling them which is which. Unless they are wise to the ruse they will probably tell you they think they can hear a difference.
This is a debate which has been running for at least a decade and despite all the claims so far we have zero evidence of a real difference. It's nothing to do with your hearing or your system. The overwhelming probability is that there's no difference.
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Post by stevew on Dec 17, 2023 10:34:09 GMT
Surely the suspicion must be the player/transport rather than the file.?
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Post by macca on Dec 17, 2023 11:30:03 GMT
Surely the suspicion must be the player/transport rather than the file.? Need to establish there really is a difference before we go looking for the reason for it. Back in 2016 ASR offered a $5000 prize to anyone who could tell WAV from FLAC - almost 7 years on it's still unclaimed. |
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Post by stevew on Dec 17, 2023 12:05:08 GMT
Surely the suspicion must be the player/transport rather than the file.? Need to establish there really is a difference before we go looking for the reason for it. Back in 2016 ASR offered a $5000 prize to anyone who could tell WAV from FLAC - almost 7 years on it's still unclaimed. So you are saying that the differences that Oli hears are not real? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 17, 2023 12:10:46 GMT
Need to establish there really is a difference before we go looking for the reason for it. Back in 2016 ASR offered a $5000 prize to anyone who could tell WAV from FLAC - almost 7 years on it's still unclaimed. So you are saying that the differences that Oli hears are not real? Might not be to be fair |
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