Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 25, 2023 8:33:58 GMT
Reimyo is a brand I have seen mentioned in quite a while, but their products always got good reviews. Will be interesting how you get on Oli. Its definitely going to be interesting. Reviews don't seem to agree on its sound, but yet they are all very positive. Seems to be a bit of a chameleon |
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Post by rexton on Nov 25, 2023 10:00:59 GMT
Interesting , it looks like a nice bit of kit. How long before you announce a recap? 🙂 Or a new linear PSU, and some lovely solid copper RCA's (24N purity) ?  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 25, 2023 10:45:28 GMT
Interesting , it looks like a nice bit of kit. How long before you announce a recap? 🙂 Or a new linear PSU, and some lovely solid copper RCA's (24N purity) ? 24N!.....where!!!? 😂 |
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Post by macca on Nov 25, 2023 11:35:05 GMT
There's a surprising amount of reviews of this DAC all of them written by complete and utter muppet but I suppose that's par for the course. That one you linked to spends half the review banging on about XRCD. What ever happened to that? Nothing. Because it was utter bollocks. And wtf is occurring here?  But I look forward to what someone normal thinks of it  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 25, 2023 12:41:45 GMT
There's a surprising amount of reviews of this DAC all of them written by complete and utter muppet but I suppose that's par for the course. That one you linked to spends half the review banging on about XRCD. What ever happened to that? Nothing. Because it was utter bollocks. And wtf is occurring here? But I look forward to what someone normal thinks of it Normal? 😂 I agree though...there are few reviews worth reading. |
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Post by misterc on Nov 25, 2023 13:25:05 GMT
The 777 is very textured and tonally delicious sound, rich and fullsome.
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Post by electronumpty on Nov 25, 2023 13:39:59 GMT
The 777 is very textured and tonally delicious sound, rich and fullsome. Olis gonna hate that then🤣🤣🤣 |
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Post by misterc on Nov 25, 2023 13:45:52 GMT
Its ones of Thorsen's designs from late 2000's I think, I have a cd player in storage had the dac a few times over the years, utterly grain free and solid sounding, not the most dynamic versions of the 1704 BUT thats NOT what Reimyo are about.
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Post by macca on Nov 25, 2023 14:18:13 GMT
Its ones of Thorsen's designs from late 2000's I think, oh god not him. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 25, 2023 14:31:00 GMT
Its ones of Thorsen's designs from late 2000's I think, oh god not him. Who's him? |
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Post by macca on Nov 25, 2023 14:47:20 GMT
he was on ASR a while back claiming he had blind test results showing that people could hear differences in DACs that could not be measured. Accused ASR of doing 'Cargo Cult Science' When asked to produce these revelatory test results he said his dog had eaten them (or some similarly ridiculous excuse). He's designed quite a few DACs (and some other equipment I think) over the years, so it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing, but he really didn't cover himself in glory there. |
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Post by misterc on Nov 25, 2023 14:47:37 GMT
I maybe wrong on that one Martin, I was thinking of the AMR gear was his input & that was soporific, the 777 is very similar just with a hint more life and soul
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Post by misterc on Nov 25, 2023 14:53:44 GMT
Here you go:-
he's doing al right, the plastics company he ownsa did £60M last year so he's living it up in Thailand rather well
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Post by macca on Nov 25, 2023 15:19:47 GMT
'Very textured and tonally delicious sound, rich and fullsome'
To me these are properties of the music, or more specifically, the production. You might describe a particular recording of, say, a piano or guitar in those terms, not the equipment intended to reproduce it.
The DAC should not be adding or taking away anything. If it does it's failed at its single task.
At least that's my take on it.
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Post by misterc on Nov 25, 2023 15:25:21 GMT
Its shame that the great percentage of dac's or CD players dont achieve this but that's audio for you lol
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 25, 2023 15:25:46 GMT
Fortunately, opinions are not illegal though 😂
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Post by macca on Nov 25, 2023 15:49:56 GMT
Its shame that the great percent of dac's or CD players dont achieve this but that's audio for you lol it's true that a lot of the expensive ones deliberately fail at it but there's plenty of inexpensive textbook examples out there for those of us who want to listen to the sound of the music and not sound of the DAC. Okay I'll stop now. |
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 25, 2023 16:01:59 GMT
Its shame that the great percent of dac's or CD players dont achieve this but that's audio for you lol it's true that a lot of the expensive ones deliberately fail at it but there's plenty of inexpensive textbook examples out there for those of us who want to listen to the sound of the music and not sound of the DAC. Okay I'll stop now. Don't disagree with anything you've written there to be fair, I just also dont subscribe to the selective measurements published here and there supposedly telling us all we should need to know about a particular DAC or any piece of equipment. Unfortunately though, those measurements seem to have catalysed a race for ONLY those measurements to be deemed important, I just don't buy it, as you don't buy into DACs that measure better than a certain benchmark having a different sound. As mentioned, opinions welcome |
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Post by misterc on Nov 25, 2023 16:10:57 GMT
Chris your observations are as usual most piquant I mean if this was the case we would all be listening to Topping D70's and it would be game over or god forbid an RME ADI/2 or Holo May
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 25, 2023 16:12:28 GMT
'Very textured and tonally delicious sound, rich and fullsome' To me these are properties of the music, or more specifically, the production. You might describe a particular recording of, say, a piano or guitar in those terms, not the equipment intended to reproduce it. The DAC should not be adding or taking away anything. If it does it's failed at its single task. At least that's my take on it. I agree. The system as a whole should be pursuant to anonymity IMO. Sounds like this Reiymo is going straight on eBay 😂😂 |
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Nov 25, 2023 16:36:30 GMT
'Very textured and tonally delicious sound, rich and fullsome' To me these are properties of the music, or more specifically, the production. You might describe a particular recording of, say, a piano or guitar in those terms, not the equipment intended to reproduce it. The DAC should not be adding or taking away anything. If it does it's failed at its single task. At least that's my take on it. I agree. The system as a whole should be pursuant to anonymity IMO. Sounds like this Reiymo is going straight on eBay 😂😂 I'll give you £500 for it if this happens: 'Very textured and tonally delicious sound, rich and fullsome' |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 25, 2023 16:42:02 GMT
I agree. The system as a whole should be pursuant to anonymity IMO. Sounds like this Reiymo is going straight on eBay 😂😂 I'll give you £500 for it if this happens: 'Very textured and tonally delicious sound, rich and fullsome' Let's see how it sounds here. I'll judge it fairly |
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Post by misterc on Nov 25, 2023 16:56:59 GMT
It does a lot right Oli more so that a great many of the later dacs, it has good flow as well, its not really a rockers or really upbeat tempo dac. But it really is good on many aspects, *never ran it with any form of clocking though*
It was never overblown here at all, thats not what I'm getting at, its has substance is the best discription I can give.
May work really well with the 686, good counter punch I suspect.
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Post by mikeyb on Nov 25, 2023 17:37:30 GMT
Poor lad, his mum sent him to the shop for syrup and he came back with treacle, still his dad's slipper will stop him doing it again 😂
I bet it sounds great 😊
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 25, 2023 19:13:32 GMT
It does a lot right Oli more so that a great many of the later dacs, it has good flow as well, its not really a rockers or really upbeat tempo dac. But it really is good on many aspects, *never ran it with any form of clocking though* It was never overblown here at all, thats not what I'm getting at, its has substance is the best discription I can give. May work really well with the 686, good counter punch I suspect. Don't worry T, I don't prejudge any item that comes here. It's a bucket list dac, and in all reality...it doesn't matter if I like it or not. I just wanted to hear one. |
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 26, 2023 9:52:44 GMT
'Very textured and tonally delicious sound, rich and fullsome' To me these are properties of the music, or more specifically, the production. You might describe a particular recording of, say, a piano or guitar in those terms, not the equipment intended to reproduce it. The DAC should not be adding..... Quite often I think it's more appropriate to regard it as the equipment allows a particular sonic characteristic through, rather than imposing the characteristic on the sound. |
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Post by macca on Nov 26, 2023 10:18:56 GMT
'Very textured and tonally delicious sound, rich and fullsome' To me these are properties of the music, or more specifically, the production. You might describe a particular recording of, say, a piano or guitar in those terms, not the equipment intended to reproduce it. The DAC should not be adding..... Quite often I think it's more appropriate to regard it as the equipment allows a particular sonic characteristic through, rather than imposing the characteristic on the sound. That makes more sense. Describing the character of some electronic device - or a bit of wire - as though it was a wine or a cheese has never sat comfortably with me. |
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optical
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Post by optical on Nov 26, 2023 13:56:20 GMT
'Very textured and tonally delicious sound, rich and fullsome' To me these are properties of the music, or more specifically, the production. You might describe a particular recording of, say, a piano or guitar in those terms, not the equipment intended to reproduce it. The DAC should not be adding..... Quite often I think it's more appropriate to regard it as the equipment allows a particular sonic characteristic through, rather than imposing the characteristic on the sound. I agree but playing devil's advocate that means that one dac sounds different from another. If those two DACs measure equally well (ie, above a certain level) the argument is that they shouldn't sound different in any way. Taking that as a fact one of those DACs (theoretically) is falling below that measurement reference (if you see what I'm saying). It's a good way of putting it, what you've written there and like I say, I agree. Sorry, don't mean to over complicate or analyse things, just pointing out that it's effectively saying the same thing as DACs not sounding the same. |
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Post by macca on Nov 26, 2023 18:06:42 GMT
I was thinking about ways that DACs can/could sound different - that is ways that do at least have some back up beyond pure speculation
Jitter - you probably struggle to find a DAC, even going back to the 1970s that has audible jitter - although we should consider that imelemntation in the system could add more. It takes a lot of jitter before you can hear it - you can try this online if you want. But since jitter sounds like tape wow and no-one would think that a good thing I think we can reject it as a reason
Distortion - high levels of 2nd and 3rd harmonic (i,e over 1 pecent) could change the sound although it would be subtle. Most DACs don't come anywhere close but there are a few that have a spread of high distortion up to the 9th harmonic. It's postulated that even low level high harmonic distortion is audible, so this is certainly a possibility. I think it would probably not sound good to most people but there's always exceptions.
Noise - some DACs are very noisy usually due to some weird implementation like using output transformers. It's suggested that large amounts of uncorrelated noise can add a sense of air and space. So this is certainly a possibility
Frequency Response - by far the easiest way to change the sound of any bit of kit is to deviate the FR from flat. Tonality is directly resolved from the FR. Most DACs tend to be flat all the way to at least 18Khz which isn't going to be audible unless you are very young and playing appropriate music or effects recording that has content that will show it up.
But again there's a few DACs that roll off within the audible range even for us codgers so again a likely possibility.
Most of the DACs from usual Chinee suspects tend to have effectively no jitter, no distortion (at any frequency) no noise and a flat FR so it's unsurprising that they all sound the same. They will sound like the recording you are playing since they offer no way to alter it.
I'm unconvinced by speculation that the conversion process (multibit, D-S, ladder/R-2R) makes a difference but maybe some evidence for this will one day emerge in a controlled listening test, but I'd bet against it.
Also unconvinced by arguments regarding filters, the effects are so slight and at such a high frequency it seems unlikely to cause the differences some perceive. I know I cannot differentiate (blind) between the six different filters on either of my DACs.
Non over sampling can/does sound different but then this is covered under noise and distortion.
Anyway just some thoughts.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 28, 2023 7:13:12 GMT
I was thinking about ways that DACs can/could sound different - that is ways that do at least have some back up beyond pure speculation Jitter - you probably struggle to find a DAC, even going back to the 1970s that has audible jitter - although we should consider that imelemntation in the system could add more. It takes a lot of jitter before you can hear it - you can try this online if you want. But since jitter sounds like tape wow and no-one would think that a good thing I think we can reject it as a reason Distortion - high levels of 2nd and 3rd harmonic (i,e over 1 pecent) could change the sound although it would be subtle. Most DACs don't come anywhere close but there are a few that have a spread of high distortion up to the 9th harmonic. It's postulated that even low level high harmonic distortion is audible, so this is certainly a possibility. I think it would probably not sound good to most people but there's always exceptions. Noise - some DACs are very noisy usually due to some weird implementation like using output transformers. It's suggested that large amounts of uncorrelated noise can add a sense of air and space. So this is certainly a possibility Frequency Response - by far the easiest way to change the sound of any bit of kit is to deviate the FR from flat. Tonality is directly resolved from the FR. Most DACs tend to be flat all the way to at least 18Khz which isn't going to be audible unless you are very young and playing appropriate music or effects recording that has content that will show it up. But again there's a few DACs that roll off within the audible range even for us codgers so again a likely possibility. Most of the DACs from usual Chinee suspects tend to have effectively no jitter, no distortion (at any frequency) no noise and a flat FR so it's unsurprising that they all sound the same. They will sound like the recording you are playing since they offer no way to alter it. I'm unconvinced by speculation that the conversion process (multibit, D-S, ladder/R-2R) makes a difference but maybe some evidence for this will one day emerge in a controlled listening test, but I'd bet against it. Also unconvinced by arguments regarding filters, the effects are so slight and at such a high frequency it seems unlikely to cause the differences some perceive. I know I cannot differentiate (blind) between the six different filters on either of my DACs. Non over sampling can/does sound different but then this is covered under noise and distortion. Anyway just some thoughts. I have been thinking about this post a wee bit, and something came to mind. Based on the ASR measurement table, 18 out of the top 20 DACS all use the same chips. Either ESS or AKM, majority ESS. Looking at the guts of them all, they all seem to follow extremely similar ethos of design and very similar layouts etc. Therefore, I think if you put all of those 18 DACs into a blind test, no one would be able to hear a difference between any of them. I absolutely believe that because it makes sense. However, If I were to take a Mark Levinson, a Berkeley or even a Parasound HD1600 and compare that to any one of those DACs in the top 20, I think there would be a much higher chance of their being an audible difference. I can see on ASR that DACs of that type have "worse" measurements than any of those top 20 DACS, and i can see from the build that they are VERY differently made. I think that due to the differences in construction, DAC topology, output stage, PSU type, PCB inductance, good/bad layout, Clock types and quality....literally all of those types of things, I think it does make a difference to what you hear, and i have DACs here now that exhibit exactly that. I prefer something different to the "lab grown" sound that the ESS DACS (I have tried) seem to produce in my system. Whenever I have used a DAC with "less than ESS" specs, I appear to have enjoyed it more, and it's not bias or anything else like that, it's subliminal or subconscious. If I am enjoying it, I doesn't matter what the measurements say, and I don't think there is anything wrong in saying DACs sound different or if you didn't like a dac, if that's what you heard or that's what your experience was. Regardless of what Amir's uber expensive measurement machine says...I have enjoyed some dacs more than others. There must be a reason for that, especially when I have heard a fair few of those top 20 and haven't kept any of them. Suggestions that anything outside of the audible range doesn't matter is also not something I agree with. Throughout everything we have done with phonostages, there have been multiple occasions where something that "*shouldn't* matter, has mattered. There have been things that have baffled us and defied explanation. I am sure there is one, but we haven't found it. Sometimes I think we are looking in the wrong place or measuring the wrong things, or even not measuring something we should be. This is the benefit of being on the inside of some of this design and research stuff...you realise that what you think you know is not always what you need to know. For instance, you never see any measurements for RFI leakage from the device itself. You may suggest that the DAC would show any RFI interference on the measurements, and that's true...but what if that RFI is spewing into another device and not the DAC itself? You wouldn't see that on the DAC measurements because it's not being measured as part of the system, it's being measured in isolation, which isn't how it's used. Some cartridges have a quoted lifespan of 2000hrs, but it wont last 2000hrs if the vinyl it plays is in terrible condition. One measurement/spec did not tell the whole story, and nor do ASR's. |
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