Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 10, 2022 19:14:08 GMT
I appreciate that mate, but funding is still a way off what I need for that conversion Happy to pop down and lend a hand for a few days. Team build! 😀. Creating a music room would be great. I can bricklay (years of landscaping) and obviously carpentry is in hand! I have a plan for the garage as it already has a single skin layer and I think the putting the insulation and second skin (feather edge over a waterproof roofing layer) on the outside means I don't need to reinforce foundations, but I don't know what to do about the concrete floor, or whether the weight of the outer layer will become too much for the single skin layer of bricks.. I'm not sure how best to stop water/damp rising through the floor either. Might just knock it down and forget it lol |
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Sept 10, 2022 19:20:32 GMT
Happy to pop down and lend a hand for a few days. Team build! 😀. Creating a music room would be great. I can bricklay (years of landscaping) and obviously carpentry is in hand! I have a plan for the garage as it already has a single skin layer and I think the putting the insulation and second skin (feather edge over a waterproof roofing layer) on the outside means I don't need to reinforce foundations, but I don't know what to do about the concrete floor, or whether the weight of the outer layer will become too much for the single skin layer of bricks.. I'm not sure how best to stop water/damp rising through the floor either. Might just knock it down and forget it lol I'm sure we can sort that between us all. It won't be too difficult. Damp proof layer, insulation and flooring. Make sure it's watertight and doesn't allow any moisture in lower wall finishes. There'll be more than enough knowledge on here to sort everything! We need an operation Bigman music room build thread! |
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Post by macca on Sept 10, 2022 19:59:09 GMT
I said this before, I've been in the garage in question and it would make a great listening room. Much bigger upgrade than any speaker change.
Plus would add value to the house, having an annexe that could be used as an office or granny flat.
Biggest cost with these things is labour, if you get that for free it's easy doable for a couple of grand as a basic, water-tight room, can always be upgraded later.
I've offered my labour before although skills-wise if it doesn't involve a paint brush, a shovel or a hammer then I'm not much use.
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Post by lurch on Sept 10, 2022 20:15:16 GMT
To waterproof paint walls and floor with bitumastic paint. Cover walls and floor with heavy duty plastic sheet, put batons on walls then insulation between and plasterboard on top.
For the floor to make levelling easy create a number of 600mm square, 30mm thick concrete islands (30x30 wood frame)ensuring the islands are level (pack under as needed). Once Islands are set remove frames and concrete the remainder of floor using the islands as a reference. To give a fine finish to the floor use a floor levelling compound over the top.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 10, 2022 20:27:43 GMT
To waterproof paint walls and floor with bitumastic paint. Cover walls and floor with heavy duty plastic sheet, put batons on walls then insulation between and plasterboard on top. For the floor to make levelling easy create a number of 600mm square, 30mm thick concrete islands (30x30 wood frame)ensuring the islands are level (pack under as needed). Once Islands are set remove frames and concrete the remainder of floor using the islands as a reference. To give a fine finish to the floor use a floor levelling compound over the top. I need the insulation on the outside. If I do all of that inside it will eat up the space. It's not massive, but larger than my living room or front room by a fair bit. My plan was to baton the outside, put insulation on, roof liner on top and then a layer of lightweight feather edge. That's then got two barrier layers. It's only the floor on the inside that I need a solution for. I'd plasterboard the inside directly to the brickwork, as the insulation etc I all on the outside. Does that make sense? |
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Post by lurch on Sept 10, 2022 20:38:35 GMT
Yep. Even so I would paint inside walls same as floor before adding PB.
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Post by pete on Sept 10, 2022 20:44:03 GMT
Possibly a bit of thread drift here, but I must have my turn!!
When I did a similar job with a friend we wanted / needed to get insulation under the floor so put in 100mm solid, think this was needed for building regs too, but not 100% sure. We put it on top of DP membrane. We then put chipboard on top of foam.
Think without insulation floor will be cold and heating use much, much higher than necessary.
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Post by electronumpty on Sept 10, 2022 21:03:46 GMT
Well I can drink tea and eats biscuits if that helps😉
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 10, 2022 21:12:03 GMT
Well I can drink tea and eats biscuits if that helps😉 It does lol |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 10, 2022 21:12:24 GMT
Possibly a bit of thread drift here, but I must have my turn!! When I did a similar job with a friend we wanted / needed to get insulation under the floor so put in 100mm solid, think this was needed for building regs too, but not 100% sure. We put it on top of DP membrane. We then put chipboard on top of foam. Think without insulation floor will be cold and heating use much, much higher than necessary. Yes, this is a major thing now and with energy prices rocketing i also need to make sure the room itself is extremely well insulated. I also need to think of a way to keep it warm as the vinyl would be stored in there too. Must admit, i find this project a real ball ache of an idea. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 10, 2022 21:56:00 GMT
Garage posts moved here ☺️
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2022 7:59:13 GMT
What are you going to do about heating? If laying in a new floor, that is the time to put an underfloor system in. You may have already seen this: link |
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Post by macca on Sept 11, 2022 8:49:19 GMT
I would just use a convection heater, that's what I use at home and it's plenty warm enough even in a much bigger room. Cost about thirty quid.
Put on a timer to come on at a low heat on very cold days in the winter, just for ten minutes an hour. If the building is sufficiently lagged that will keep the ambient temperature sufficient that there will be no issue with storing vinyl. Prolonged cold periods in winter seem to be pretty rare nowadays anyway.
It is a ballache of a project but I think it's a nettle that should be grasped. Would not say that to most people but Ollie is pretty serious about his sound quality.
It's also a good investment regardless, would pay back at least twice the cost of doing it if the house were to be sold.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2022 10:31:48 GMT
Insulation on the outside of a single skin brick wall will be pretty ineffective.
It needs to be on the inside, ideally.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 11, 2022 11:13:22 GMT
Insulation on the outside of a single skin brick wall will be pretty ineffective. It needs to be on the inside, ideally. Why? |
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Post by pete on Sept 11, 2022 11:34:20 GMT
Insulation on the outside of a single skin brick wall will be pretty ineffective. It needs to be on the inside, ideally. Why? I was wondering that too. Did it on my brother's house and it worked well |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2022 13:41:34 GMT
Condensation/damp issues.
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Sept 11, 2022 14:25:16 GMT
As long as there is a cavity between the insulating layer and the brick I wouldn't think there'd be a problem. The only potential difficulty I can see is having to modify the roof to give adequate coverage.
Vapour barrier and air flow are all important. address these and you should be fine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2022 14:27:15 GMT
You are going to have to add 100mm + covering on the outside wall to have something that meets building regs.
Is the garage is a flat or pitched?
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Sept 11, 2022 16:31:55 GMT
You are going to have to add 100mm + covering on the outside wall to have something that meets building regs. Is the garage is a flat or pitched? Ah yes, building regs is a bugger for insulation and ventilation. You can get away with all sorts providing you plan to never ever sell your property. After which it's your next of kin's problem. I think the building regs changed recently, and may be a lot more than 100mm. And the roof too ofc. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2022 16:36:07 GMT
Insulation on the outside also has a bit of a "tea cosy" effect, as you have the thermal mass of the walls to take into consideration when heating the space.
If it is a room you will not use often, you may find it takes a while to heat up.
The walls will be a bit like an economy 7 heater.
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Post by macca on Sept 11, 2022 16:44:01 GMT
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Post by pete on Sept 11, 2022 16:50:45 GMT
Great team work going on here!!
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Sept 11, 2022 16:57:38 GMT
Insulation on the outside also has a bit of a "tea cosy" effect, as you have the thermal mass of the walls to take into consideration when heating the space. If it is a room you will not use often, you may find it takes a while to heat up. The walls will be a bit like an economy 7 heater. Not sure I agree - the external insulation will do a better job of keeping the winter weather away from the brick than conventional outer brick would. As a listening room it would be preferable too - insulating internally would be acoustically Sh#t I reckon. Be like sitting in a giant cardboard box. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2022 17:30:00 GMT
The difference is that with external insulation, you have the thermal mass of the walls to take into account.
Internal insulation would remove the thermal mass of the walls.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 11, 2022 17:59:06 GMT
The difference is that with external insulation, you have the thermal mass of the walls to take into account. Internal insulation would remove the thermal mass of the walls. And what makes that an issue? Just googling and can't seem to find an issue? |
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Post by electronumpty on Sept 11, 2022 18:02:26 GMT
Google warm roof/cold roof same principles I think.
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Sept 11, 2022 18:16:42 GMT
The difference is that with external insulation, you have the thermal mass of the walls to take into account. Internal insulation would remove the thermal mass of the walls. And what makes that an issue? Just googling and can't seem to find an issue? I'm not convinced there is an issue. It's common building practice to do internal and external insulation on walls. Both have pros and cons - both can be done reliably and effectively if done correctly. High thermal mass will take longer to get to heated room temperature. However, once at temperature, the room will stay warm for longer. Very, efficient eco homes use very high thermal masses to store heat from solar gain and retain that energy for long periods. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 11, 2022 18:27:32 GMT
And what makes that an issue? Just googling and can't seem to find an issue? I'm not convinced there is an issue. It's common building practice to do internal and external insulation on walls. Both have pros and cons - both can be done reliably and effectively if done correctly. High thermal mass will take longer to get to heated room temperature. However, once at temperature, the room will stay warm for longer. Very, efficient eco homes use very high thermal masses to store heat from solar gain and retain that energy for long periods. Well that was a more thorough explanation than I put together, so than you. Reading suggests that ext insulation is now more common than internal. |
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Post by pete on Sept 11, 2022 19:40:46 GMT
I'm not convinced there is an issue. It's common building practice to do internal and external insulation on walls. Both have pros and cons - both can be done reliably and effectively if done correctly. High thermal mass will take longer to get to heated room temperature. However, once at temperature, the room will stay warm for longer. Very, efficient eco homes use very high thermal masses to store heat from solar gain and retain that energy for long periods. Well that was a more thorough explanation than I put together, so than you. Reading suggests that ext insulation is now more common than internal. Yep, that is more like what I have on my house, cavity wall with insulation in it. So block wall to the room, insulation, another block wall, and I am looking to add a further 100mm of solid insulation on the outside, finished with a render. |
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