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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 9:33:48 GMT
I just don’t care enough about what other people think. I hear differences but if they don’t, then good for them: They can save money. As long as they don’t want me to use poor cables I’m good, They will visit you in the dead of night, secretly remove your expensive cables and replace them with cheap lookalikes. Then, several weeks later, they will turn up at your gaff, point out that you've been listening to cheap cables without realising it, and laugh till they cry. Once again I fail to understand all the angst on display here. Buy what you like, use what you like. It's your money, unless you've been raiding your children's money box in which case, shame on you! Other things which fail to make my blood warmer, let alone making it boil: Benefit fraudsters What cars other people drive and whether they paid cashmoney or bought them on tick Untidiness Tiles and how much people paid for them |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 31, 2019 9:53:24 GMT
I just don’t care enough about what other people think. I hear differences but if they don’t, then good for them: They can save money. As long as they don’t want me to use poor cables I’m good, They will visit you in the dead of night, secretly remove your expensive cables and replace them with cheap lookalikes. Then, several weeks later, they will turn up at your gaff, point out that you've been listening to cheap cables without realising it, and laugh till they cry. Once again I fail to understand all the angst on display here. Buy what you like, use what you like. It's your money, unless you've been raiding your children's money box in which case, shame on you! Other things which fail to make my blood warmer, let alone making it boil: Benefit fraudsters What cars other people drive and whether they paid cashmoney or bought them on tick Untidiness Tiles and how much people paid for them Now I’m gonna be up all night checking me cables! At least I can make sure the place is tidy whilst I’m up  |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 31, 2019 10:00:36 GMT
My beef is that Van damme XKE is total crap according to some here - I can't bring myself to use them mainly because the cable cheap to buy and I still have price-prejudice as it's around a quid-and-a-bit per metre. Unsighted, it 'sounds' fine to me once I've forgotten what it is. The brown colour 'sounds better' anyway  3m of Mogami 2549 inc P&P cost me £13 I remember and it does look posher as well as having what seems to be good quality conductors inside. For now, any new interconnects I make up will probably be with this stuff. Now, if you want to see ripoff pricing on this cable, look at the Linn T cable. The RCA plugs aren't anything special (they're generic from the far east available in dozens of styles I remember from my Cable Talk days) but the mini-DIN plug is theirs I think.. www.soundstage.uk.com/p/linn-t-kable-phono-rca-tonearm-cable/?attribute_length=1.2m&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8OCbxuze4wIVBLTtCh0dogJqEAQYBCABEgI80fD_BwESo to return to the OP. Make your own seriously good interconnect for thirty quid including posh looking RCA plugs, or pay the equivalent of £300 for a dealer bought alternative? This one was always lovely with more stark amps such as Linns own -
No idea where it came from though...
DIY is definitely the way to go with cables IMO. I know I use made up ones now, but I got them silly cheap. Far less than the plugs cost to buy. If I didn’t have them I’d be DIYing and I’d start with any decent Goretex cable I could find on EBay. Edit: I should add that Dave has access to TIS mk1 which I really rate. If he is getting only moderate improvement over XKE then I respect that and I’d be happily using the VD too in his circumstances if that is how he hears it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 10:02:27 GMT
So, if £50 cables are Sh#t, at what price do cables cease to be Sh#t? At what point does the law of diminish returns kick in; £100, £200, £500, £1,000? Now let's not get ahead of ourselves. I am not saying that cheap cables cannot be good. Mogami is cheap and superb. Summer Carbokab is cheap and very good. You can make good performing cables for under £50. Neutrik plugs (gold plated brass connectors), OFC copper etc My argument was that Van Damme XKE is crap and yes, i totally dismiss it because everything i tried apart from GAC-1 was better by a clear and distinguishable margin. However, if you want performance that out strips these budget cables, you need to spend more. KLE Harmony plugs, which i use are £65 alone. So even upgrading plugs on a budget cable makes them nearly £100 when you've finished. So if you're gonna spend £100 on budget, why not spend a bit more to increase performance again and use some top quality copper. All of a sudden youre at £150 and people start moaning about expensive cables. But now you've got KLE plugs (Silver plated copper connections) and high purity PCOCC copper and performance that starts to make cable comparisons interesting. Like Andrew said, if you CANT hear the difference, great! You are lucky and will be able to use bell wire at £0.30pm. Personally, I can and therefore have tried every single cable that came my way. The second hand cable market is a gold mine. I recently picked up some Pure Silver cables with Genuine WBT plugs on for £65. Now that's a good cheap cable. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 31, 2019 10:06:45 GMT
I had an idea for a second string income operating a cable exchange, taking in used cables at a fair price but leaving about 25% for resale price. So many folk buy and sell cables it’s unreal. So many more sat with box fulls because they don’t want to sell on eBay. As they are less prone to shipping damage and cheap to post, it seemed like a good idea.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 31, 2019 10:11:18 GMT
So, if £50 cables are Sh#t, at what price do cables cease to be Sh#t? At what point does the law of diminish returns kick in; £100, £200, £500, £1,000? Now let's not get ahead of ourselves. I am not saying that cheap cables cannot be good. Mogami is cheap and superb. Summer Carbokab is cheap and very good. You can make good performing cables for under £50. Neutrik plugs (gold plated brass connectors), OFC copper etc My argument was that Van Damme XKE is crap and yes, i totally dismiss it because everything i tried apart from GAC-1 was better by a clear and distinguishable margin. However, if you want performance that out strips these budget cables, you need to spend more. KLE Harmony plugs, which i use are £65 alone. So even upgrading plugs on a budget cable makes them nearly £100 when you've finished. So if you're gonna spend £100 on budget, why not spend a bit more to increase performance again and use some top quality copper. All of a sudden youre at £150 and people start moaning about expensive cables. But now you've got KLE plugs (Silver plated copper connections) and high purity PCOCC copper and performance that starts to make cable comparisons interesting. Like Andrew said, if you CANT hear the difference, great! You are lucky and will be able to use bell wire at £0.30pm. Personally, I can and therefore have tried every single cable that came my way. The second hand cable market is a gold mine. I recently picked up some Pure Silver cables with Genuine WBT plugs on for £65. Now that's a good cheap cable. You could always go MS Audio Starline if you had to save. You’ve got me spoiled now though after trying KLE plugs. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 10:18:23 GMT
I had an idea for a second string income operating a cable exchange, taking in used cables at a fair price but leaving about 25% for resale price. So many folk buy and sell cables it’s unreal. So many more sat with box fulls because they don’t want to sell on eBay. As they are less prone to shipping damage and cheap to post, it seemed like a good idea. It's a good idea, i like it. macca has enough cables to get you going on his own lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 10:19:44 GMT
Now let's not get ahead of ourselves. I am not saying that cheap cables cannot be good. Mogami is cheap and superb. Summer Carbokab is cheap and very good. You can make good performing cables for under £50. Neutrik plugs (gold plated brass connectors), OFC copper etc My argument was that Van Damme XKE is crap and yes, i totally dismiss it because everything i tried apart from GAC-1 was better by a clear and distinguishable margin. However, if you want performance that out strips these budget cables, you need to spend more. KLE Harmony plugs, which i use are £65 alone. So even upgrading plugs on a budget cable makes them nearly £100 when you've finished. So if you're gonna spend £100 on budget, why not spend a bit more to increase performance again and use some top quality copper. All of a sudden youre at £150 and people start moaning about expensive cables. But now you've got KLE plugs (Silver plated copper connections) and high purity PCOCC copper and performance that starts to make cable comparisons interesting. Like Andrew said, if you CANT hear the difference, great! You are lucky and will be able to use bell wire at £0.30pm. Personally, I can and therefore have tried every single cable that came my way. The second hand cable market is a gold mine. I recently picked up some Pure Silver cables with Genuine WBT plugs on for £65. Now that's a good cheap cable. You could always go MS Audio Starline if you had to save. You’ve got me spoiled now though after trying KLE plugs. Yes, the MS Starline are decent plugs especially to upgrade a budget cable. I've been using AECO lately which are the same connectors, made by the same company lol. They are a bit more but I prefer the finish on the jacket. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 31, 2019 10:30:58 GMT
I had an idea for a second string income operating a cable exchange, taking in used cables at a fair price but leaving about 25% for resale price. So many folk buy and sell cables it’s unreal. So many more sat with box fulls because they don’t want to sell on eBay. As they are less prone to shipping damage and cheap to post, it seemed like a good idea. It's a good idea, i like it. macca has enough cables to get you going on his own lol I might do it if I ever get back to Cyprus. C’mon Boris: Make a balls-up of Brexit and let us all have free movement! |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 31, 2019 11:00:06 GMT
My beef is that Van damme XKE is total crap according to some here - I can't bring myself to use them mainly because the cable cheap to buy and I still have price-prejudice as it's around a quid-and-a-bit per metre. Unsighted, it 'sounds' fine to me once I've forgotten what it is. The brown colour 'sounds better' anyway 3m of Mogami 2549 inc P&P cost me £13 I remember and it does look posher as well as having what seems to be good quality conductors inside. For now, any new interconnects I make up will probably be with this stuff. Now, if you want to see ripoff pricing on this cable, look at the Linn T cable. The RCA plugs aren't anything special (they're generic from the far east available in dozens of styles I remember from my Cable Talk days) but the mini-DIN plug is theirs I think.. www.soundstage.uk.com/p/linn-t-kable-phono-rca-tonearm-cable/?attribute_length=1.2m&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8OCbxuze4wIVBLTtCh0dogJqEAQYBCABEgI80fD_BwESo to return to the OP. Make your own seriously good interconnect for thirty quid including posh looking RCA plugs, or pay the equivalent of £300 for a dealer bought alternative? This one was always lovely with more stark amps such as Linns own -
No idea where it came from though...
DIY is definitely the way to go with cables IMO. I know I use made up ones now, but I got them silly cheap. Far less than the plugs cost to buy. If I didn’t have them I’d be DIYing and I’d start with any decent Goretex cable I could find on EBay. Edit: I should add that Dave has access to TIS mk1 which I really rate. If he is getting only moderate improvement over XKE then I respect that and I’d be happily using the VD too in his circumstances if that is how he hears it. By the standards of this forum members, my gear is old cack pro stuff, my workroom DAC is from the arc and despite using headphones a lot up there, maybe I'm not getting the full picture - it's all sighted anyway! I thought or imagined that the TIS let a little more of everything through - and I DID purchase mine by the way - I've discovered that the old exclusive Radlett Audio interconnect using long obsolete Furukawa star-quad cable and AT plugs is comparable (it was perfect for the valve gear they once sold and Dave uses it to this day) if not quite as brightly lit (it's the blue cable colouring rather than the silver outer I'm sure  ).
I don't bloody know any more |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 11:42:15 GMT
Send me a link to the TIS Dave, I'll try a bit
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 11:56:10 GMT
My beef is that Van damme XKE is total crap according to some here - I can't bring myself to use them mainly because the cable cheap to buy and I still have price-prejudice as it's around a quid-and-a-bit per metre. Unsighted, it 'sounds' fine to me once I've forgotten what it is. The brown colour 'sounds better' anyway 3m of Mogami 2549 inc P&P cost me £13 I remember and it does look posher as well as having what seems to be good quality conductors inside. For now, any new interconnects I make up will probably be with this stuff. Now, if you want to see ripoff pricing on this cable, look at the Linn T cable. The RCA plugs aren't anything special (they're generic from the far east available in dozens of styles I remember from my Cable Talk days) but the mini-DIN plug is theirs I think.. www.soundstage.uk.com/p/linn-t-kable-phono-rca-tonearm-cable/?attribute_length=1.2m&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8OCbxuze4wIVBLTtCh0dogJqEAQYBCABEgI80fD_BwESo to return to the OP. Make your own seriously good interconnect for thirty quid including posh looking RCA plugs, or pay the equivalent of £300 for a dealer bought alternative?
This one was always lovely with more stark amps such as Linns own -
No idea where it came from though...
I didn't know Linn still did the Silvers. Must try some one day. S. |
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Post by antonio on Jul 31, 2019 12:01:31 GMT
Interconnects do make a difference, subtle on my NVA system, but moving up to Townsend's on my brothers system was huge.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 31, 2019 12:10:11 GMT
DIY is definitely the way to go with cables IMO. I know I use made up ones now, but I got them silly cheap. Far less than the plugs cost to buy. If I didn’t have them I’d be DIYing and I’d start with any decent Goretex cable I could find on EBay. Edit: I should add that Dave has access to TIS mk1 which I really rate. If he is getting only moderate improvement over XKE then I respect that and I’d be happily using the VD too in his circumstances if that is how he hears it. By the standards of this forum members, my gear is old cack pro stuff, my workroom DAC is from the arc and despite using headphones a lot up there, maybe I'm not getting the full picture - it's all sighted anyway! I thought or imagined that the TIS let a little more of everything through - and I DID purchase mine by the way - I've discovered that the old exclusive Radlett Audio interconnect using long obsolete Furukawa star-quad cable and AT plugs is comparable (it was perfect for the valve gear they once sold and Dave uses it to this day) if not quite as brightly lit (it's the blue cable colouring rather than the silver outer I'm sure ). I don't bloody know any more “The more I find out, the less I know” . Apart from empathising with you, Dave, I now have a nice song in my head  |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 31, 2019 12:12:29 GMT
Send me a link to the TIS Dave, I'll try a bit The raw cable is no longer available off the reel unless you buy a few grand’s worth. I know it was a Goretex cable, but not sure which one. It’s not cheap used either, but I still fancy having a go sometimes. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 12:45:34 GMT
Send me a link to the TIS Dave, I'll try a bit The raw cable is no longer available off the reel unless you buy a few grand’s worth. I know it was a Goretex cable, but not sure which one. It’s not cheap used either, but I still fancy having a go sometimes. Ah ok, fair enough. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 17:30:21 GMT
Just a few points, Mr B... Hate to mention it, again, but just to clarify. Didn't imagine mention of WG would change anything. He was mentioned as someone offering his findings to the DIY community for the overall good. I could have offered Nelson Pass or others. Speaking of Nelson P. You'd be shagged for your preamp if he followed your example. That's by the by. It was your comment with regards myself and your automatic assumption that someone else's knowledge base had to be the same as your own, which at the the time, came across as being just a tad arrogant. Which brings us here. 2 years on, and again, you come across as making assumptions and comments seeming a tad arrogant. You don't like cheap cables. You don't want them in your system. You've heard other systems of certain expenditure and they don't use cheap cables. Fair enough. I don't recall anyone saying you have to use them. The point being how cheap is relative, the same as everything else. But then you say that if people don't appreciate the value of a good cable and want to use cheap cables, that's their problem. Why should it have to be a problem? Was it a problem for you when you were ignorant as to the effects of cables? Why should it have to be a problem for the bloke with his 50K system who chooses to use what you view as "cheap cables" in preference to more "expensive" ones, which he's tried. It comes across that he cannot make a valued judgement, on his own system, and that you know better, which seems just a tad arrogant. And your " F#ck off Norbert, you're having a laugh", that's arrogance in anyone's language. I'd like to see that come up on AOS. The poster would soon get slapped down. Oh, and there was no row with your comparison. A row is a heated exchange and there wasn't one. Making a Beeline: Fact or Fiction? My first post here is the fourth, which just happens to appear after yours. It may have followed yours but it has absolutely nothing to do with you. I was replying to the opening post in the same way I would have before you would have had any interest in hi-fi. I bought my first specialist cable (Monster speaker cable) before you were born. I wasn't impressed with it, especially not when it started to oxidize and turn green. Post No 12 I introduce the notion of cheapness and how relative it is. The easiest example to give was Mr Brook's and his view of your cables which he gave publicly on two forums. I also mentioned his view on Martin T's dac. Effectively to his mind it's a cheap DAC and not worth his bothering with. And the "cheap war" followed. I wouldn't say it was making a beeline. But what about all - that's ALL - the other threads I've made a beeline for? Having looked at ALL - THAT'S - ALL - the threads in the Cables & Accessories section, there's a total of 8 posts from me. So out of a grand total of 1080 posts (this thread aside and another, which I'll leave till last), 8 are mine. Out of that huge 8, 3 have absolutely nothing to do with cables with 1 being about beards and 2 being about din connectors. That leaves 5. Out of that 5, 4 relate to cables in general. Which leaves 1. That refers to you, and is done so as time reference. You can look at the screenshots for yourself. That only leaves 1 thread left, which was your shop front. As the original has since been deleted it's hard to say just how much of a beeline I actually made. Beeline or otherwise, I asked a simple question. You make play of the words highest quality copper. I simply asked for you to quantify it. Hardly a radical request, not when you have the internet and similar information is readily available. I wasn't really expecting to be told and I wasn't. So why ask? Well part was just idle curiosity and part was for a wider audience. I thought some considering a purchase might be interested. Somehow asking about copper purity was seen as wanting to know what the cable is you use and who supplies it. Which clearly it didn't and didn't make sense to me. It was like saying Johnny makes toffee apples. Jimmy asks Johnny how much sugar he uses in his toffee apples and from that Johnny construes Jimmy is asking what type of sugar Johnny uses and where he buys it from. Anyway, in a law case with the evidence provided - I'd win your Beelining charge, I reckon, Mr B. And you can rest easy in your bed tonight. Oh, and if you genuinely thought I was being sarcastic previously, you'd be in for treat if I genuinely set out to be. But there's enough smartarse buggers out there in forum land. Wouldn't want to add to the number.      |
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Post by macca on Aug 7, 2019 18:28:57 GMT
Well that was a comprehensive post. I'm not sure what it was about though but. But it was comprehensive.
Bonus points for getting an 'I was doing this before you were born' in there. I'm really dying to start being able to use that at work. Just few more years. Can't wait.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 18:34:16 GMT
I started reading it, but my attention drifted. It looked a very serious post. Is it about something worth being serious about?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 18:40:15 GMT
Mr Kipling's IQ has to be slightly above average.
S.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 18:42:42 GMT
I don't think so Shane.
But it was nice of you to say.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 18:45:40 GMT
I don't think so Shane. But it was nice of you to say. You have good logic. Can get that vibe from you. S. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 18:46:48 GMT
I started reading it, but my attention drifted. It looked a very serious post. Is it about something worth being serious about? It's about the attitude and assumptions people make. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 18:49:28 GMT
Well that was a comprehensive post. I'm not sure what it was about though but. But it was comprehensive. Bonus points for getting an 'I was doing this before you were born' in there. I'm really dying to start being able to use that at work. Just few more years. Can't wait. Well it's true. I got Monster speaker cable 1978 - and it was shite. Well, in my situation, anyway. That doesn't make it a definite. Let's be rational here. |
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Post by macca on Aug 7, 2019 19:03:16 GMT
I've got some Monster speaker cable. I don't recall buying it but I found it when I was clearing up earlier this year. I've never tried it.
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Post by macca on Aug 7, 2019 19:07:39 GMT
Here's a question for the panel. I've never really understood this. Some people say 'You should not use speaker cable or interconnects as tone controls.'
But why not? Nothing's going to explode. And if you're not trying to change the sound by changing the cables what are you changing them for?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 19:10:15 GMT
Here's a question for the panel. I've never really understood this. Some people say 'You should not use speaker cable or interconnects as tone controls.' But why not? Nothing's going to explode. And if you're not trying to change the sound by changing the cables what are you changing them for? How can you avoid doing so? Cables are not neutral in their effect. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 19:11:43 GMT
I have some of the old blue Monster solid core spiral speaker cable. Looks chunky but it's light as a feather, sounds OK though. I've probably owned it twenty five years or more.
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Post by macca on Aug 7, 2019 19:14:08 GMT
Mine is in a grey sleeve.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 19:24:27 GMT
Mine was the original transparent sleeving type - which was how you could see it oxidize.
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).
