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Post by nonuffin on Jul 28, 2019 21:13:28 GMT
Let's look at the numbers. 1mm silver wire about £15/m in anything over 10m from the right supplier. Quality mains plugs, 30 quid at wholesale, decent ice, similar. So a 1.5m solid silver iec costs 100 quid all in inc sleeping. Try finding one in a retailer under 500. I love your simplistic approach. Good job you don't run a business.
So where are you going to put this lot together? In a field? What about the days, weeks and months where you don't sell any cables at all? (Any cable seller will tell you that January, February and August are dead months for sales). Tell me where I can get marketing and sakes channels for zero outlay and I will have your babies. Most cable sellers have a bin the size of a small garage of all the prototypes that didn't make the grade. Comonents have to be paid for in bulk sometimes months in advance, so that costs just sitting on a shelf doing nothing.
All of that lot above costs some serious money, believe it or not. Do it yourself and then come back here with the correct numbers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 21:22:09 GMT
Let's look at the numbers. 1mm silver wire about £15/m in anything over 10m from the right supplier. Quality mains plugs, 30 quid at wholesale, decent ice, similar. So a 1.5m solid silver iec costs 100 quid all in inc sleeping. Try finding one in a retailer under 500. I love your simplistic approach. Good job you don't run a business.
So where are you going to put this lot together? In a field? What about the days, weeks and months where you don't sell any cables at all? (Any cable seller will tell you that January, February and August are dead months for sales). Tell me where I can get marketing and sakes channels for zero outlay and I will have your babies. Most cable sellers have a bin the size of a small garage of all the prototypes that didn't make the grade. Comonents have to be paid for in bulk sometimes months in advance, so that costs just sitting on a shelf doing nothing.
All of that lot above costs some serious money, believe it or not. Do it yourself and then come back here with the correct numbers.
That's the thing, you are talking to a guy who can build anything. The only real cost to Si is materials and time and because it isn't his income, he doesn't have to consider the highs and lows if demand. Same as the preamp I mentioned, its an object looked at in isolation. Yes, mcru is a business as is NVA and those margins are there to keep them afloat in times of low demand. Doesn't make the prices representative if the quality of goods though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 21:44:27 GMT
Nothing like a good old cable thread to get the blood pumping. It fucks me off Westie. High quality materials, sold by someone who isn't rinsing you of your money for profit and I get loads of Sh#t for it. Go buy Van Damme!!! It's fucking W#nk. If you want to stick W#nk cables in your system, do it! I ain't listening to it lol. £5k Vinyl front end, £1k preamp, £2k power amp all played through £20 Van Damme XKE cables and Rean plugs with brass connectors and Van Damme 4mm Blue speaker cable. F#ck off with it Norbert, you're having a laugh. I wouldn't take it personally. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 21:45:21 GMT
It fucks me off Westie. High quality materials, sold by someone who isn't rinsing you of your money for profit and I get loads of Sh#t for it. Go buy Van Damme!!! It's fucking W#nk. If you want to stick W#nk cables in your system, do it! I ain't listening to it lol. £5k Vinyl front end, £1k preamp, £2k power amp all played through £20 Van Damme XKE cables and Rean plugs with brass connectors and Van Damme 4mm Blue speaker cable. F#ck off with it Norbert, you're having a laugh. I wouldn't take it personally. Why? You make a beeline for me every time a cable thread emerges. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 21:55:59 GMT
In the context of how comments were made in public, in his view, Spotfire cables he viewed as "cheap wires", which he has said more than once, as I saw. It was said to be disparaging in the same way as he has commented on Martin T's DAC, which in his view is a cheap DAC, and as such wasn't worth bothering with. He got one for a listen and was then looking to sell it on. You give the impression that your cables are "cheap" compared to what is commercially available and what others might sell them for. Again, it's s question of people want to view the word. But they are! I don't understand your point Mr K. My cables are priced with a very small margin BECAUSE I'm not reliant on their income in any way. I make them as a hobby which allows me to do this. If you bought a similar spec cable from anywhere else that is reliant on sales income, you would pay 4x the price. Why can't I say they are cheaper than you can get in a shop, when they clearly are!!! We'll make your mind up!!! Previously you have not long posted that you've never said your wares are cheap, because they're not. Again, it shows how people view the word and the context it's used in |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 21:57:55 GMT
I wouldn't take it personally. Why? You make a beeline for me every time a cable thread emerges. Give over, man. Paranoia again. If I do, it's simply seeing you as representative of the industry in general. Nothing personal. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 21:59:57 GMT
But they are! I don't understand your point Mr K. My cables are priced with a very small margin BECAUSE I'm not reliant on their income in any way. I make them as a hobby which allows me to do this. If you bought a similar spec cable from anywhere else that is reliant on sales income, you would pay 4x the price. Why can't I say they are cheaper than you can get in a shop, when they clearly are!!! We'll make your mind up!!! Previously you have not long posted that you've never said your wares are cheap, because they're not. Again, it shows how people view the word and the context it's used in Dude, They are cheap in the context of what you'd have to pay for the same quality elsewhere. However, I realise that £165 is no small sum for a cable and don't call them cheap MCRU calling them "cheap wire" is derogatory yet he has a pair and hasn't sold them on. I don't care either way. They cost what they cost. Cheap or not. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 22:00:55 GMT
Why? You make a beeline for me every time a cable thread emerges. Give over, man. Paranoia again. FFS. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 23:07:12 GMT
We'll make your mind up!!! Previously you have not long posted that you've never said your wares are cheap, because they're not. Again, it shows how people view the word and the context it's used in Dude, They are cheap in the context of what you'd have to pay for the same quality elsewhere. However, I realise that £165 is no small sum for a cable and don't call them cheap MCRU calling them "cheap wire" is derogatory yet he has a pair and hasn't sold them on. I don't care either way. They cost what they cost. Cheap or not. I never have been - or ever will be - a "dude". |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 23:12:40 GMT
Dude, They are cheap in the context of what you'd have to pay for the same quality elsewhere. However, I realise that £165 is no small sum for a cable and don't call them cheap MCRU calling them "cheap wire" is derogatory yet he has a pair and hasn't sold them on. I don't care either way. They cost what they cost. Cheap or not. I never have been - or ever will be - a "dude". Haha, shame that, i had you down as a dapper kind of person with a name like Mr Kipling. Not to worry, I've been wrong before. It'll happen again too. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 23:40:31 GMT
Well, there you go... Again. (Generally speaking, that is.)
Words and associations. And how they differ for one person to another.
Would never associate dude with dapper. For me Dude's an Americanism for a bloke. Never think of it in the dress sense. For me, Dapper's an English word being of smart appearance. A different dress association to the American one.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 29, 2019 5:09:01 GMT
I never have been - or ever will be - a "dude". Haha, shame that, i had you down as a dapper kind of person with a name like Mr Kipling. Not to worry, I've been wrong before. It'll happen again too. I must admit, “dude”:isn’t half as entertaining as “chief”. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 5:22:04 GMT
Haha, shame that, i had you down as a dapper kind of person with a name like Mr Kipling. Not to worry, I've been wrong before. It'll happen again too. I must admit, “dude”:isn’t half as entertaining as “chief”. Haha, I'm just glad someone got the reference |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 29, 2019 5:56:53 GMT
It’s a cable thread: Bun fights are obligatory, Chief!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 6:02:40 GMT
It’s a cable thread: Bun fights are obligatory, Chief! It does make me chuckle at how every cable thread ends in a "bost up" Black country term for fight, argument or upset. Anyway, I'm thinking i might try a pair of coat hangers for cables next. Stainless steel or aluminium? What's the recommendation lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 6:49:05 GMT
Nothing like a good old cable thread to get the blood pumping. It fucks me off Westie. High quality materials, sold by someone who isn't rinsing you of your money for profit and I get loads of Sh#t for it. Go buy Van Damme!!! It's fucking W#nk. If you want to stick W#nk cables in your system, do it! I ain't listening to it lol. £5k Vinyl front end, £1k preamp, £2k power amp all played through £20 Van Damme XKE cables and Rean plugs with brass connectors and Van Damme 4mm Blue speaker cable. F#ck off with it Norbert, you're having a laugh. 5.20 in, Squire... Give the people what they think they need - or what someone tells them they need... You're forgetting forum rules. I imagine they apply to all. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 7:05:35 GMT
It fucks me off Westie. High quality materials, sold by someone who isn't rinsing you of your money for profit and I get loads of Sh#t for it. Go buy Van Damme!!! It's fucking W#nk. If you want to stick W#nk cables in your system, do it! I ain't listening to it lol. £5k Vinyl front end, £1k preamp, £2k power amp all played through £20 Van Damme XKE cables and Rean plugs with brass connectors and Van Damme 4mm Blue speaker cable. F#ck off with it Norbert, you're having a laugh. 5.20 in, Squire... Give the people what they think they need - or what someone tells them they need... You're forgetting forum rules. I imagine they apply to all. What forum rule am i forgetting chief? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 7:12:18 GMT
5.20 in, Squire... Give the people what they think they need - or what someone tells them they need... You're forgetting forum rules. I imagine they apply to all. What forum rule am i forgetting chief? Go and read them, Squire. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 22:00:17 GMT
Nothing like a good old cable thread to get the blood pumping. It fucks me off Westie. High quality materials, sold by someone who isn't rinsing you of your money for profit and I get loads of Sh#t for it. Go buy Van Damme!!! It's fucking W#nk. If you want to stick W#nk cables in your system, do it! I ain't listening to it lol. £5k Vinyl front end, £1k preamp, £2k power amp all played through £20 Van Damme XKE cables and Rean plugs with brass connectors and Van Damme 4mm Blue speaker cable. F#ck off with it Norbert, you're having a laugh. £8K + Speakers. What about £50K? There's no absolutes when it comes to hi-fi -   |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 22:22:04 GMT
It fucks me off Westie. High quality materials, sold by someone who isn't rinsing you of your money for profit and I get loads of Sh#t for it. Go buy Van Damme!!! It's fucking W#nk. If you want to stick W#nk cables in your system, do it! I ain't listening to it lol. £5k Vinyl front end, £1k preamp, £2k power amp all played through £20 Van Damme XKE cables and Rean plugs with brass connectors and Van Damme 4mm Blue speaker cable. F#ck off with it Norbert, you're having a laugh. £8K + Speakers. What about £50K? There's no absolutes when it comes to hi-fi - Look chief, I have again put some cheap wire in my system and it was harsh and grainy. I took it out and put my usual cables in and it went back to silky smooth goodness. I genuinely don't GAF about what anyone says, i know that cables make a difference and i know they are as important as any component. Months of testing cables and consistanlty hearing a difference between them all (including blind testing!) cannot be explained away by some one else's denial. If you don't, thats cool but for every post, quote or Youtube vid you post, i could post one to the contrary. Thats hifi and i know where i sit on the subject. BTW, i genuinely didn't mean Dude in a derogatory way but i love the BOJO gif lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 22:42:19 GMT
You're still totally missing the point.
You don't need to tell me cables can make a difference. I'm well aware of the fact. I know that for myself. I found that out 40 years ago. And you don't need to spend thousands on a system to be able to hear.
You're entitled to your opinion. But you're opinion is just that - yours' . It doesn't make it anymore valid than anyone else's. And obviously the individual with his £50K system doesn't share it.
And yes, you can, in a sense, view cables as another component, which means personal preference and system dependency govern whether they are acceptable or not.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 23:45:17 GMT
You're still totally missing the point. You don't need to tell me cables can make a difference. I'm well aware of the fact. I know that for myself. I found that out 40 years ago. And you don't need to spend thousands on a system to be able to hear. You're entitled to your opinion. But you're opinion is just that - yours' . It doesn't make it anymore valid than anyone else's. And obviously the individual with his £50K system doesn't share it. And yes, you can, in a sense, view cables as another component, which means personal preference and system dependency govern whether they are acceptable or not. I am missing the point. If we agree, that cables make a difference, what are we talking about? Cost? Value? I've lost the will lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 7:46:40 GMT
The point is simple: not everyone shares your world view on cables.
Your example of someone with an £8K + system, you assert that they're not going to use what you consider to be cheap cables. It wasn't just your assertion, but the arrogance with it. I give a real world example of someone with a system worth 5 times as much, who, by your own definition, you would say would not consider using "cheap cables". And what do they? Relatively cheap cables, despite having tried more expensive ones.
You seemed to think I went out of my way actively looking for something. Not so. It was "there". It just happened to be a mod on The Wam. You thought something similar over on AOS with your capacitor comparison when I made reference to Walt Jung. You'd never heard of him and suggested we could all do Google searches. My response was I didn't need to.
Anyway, I can't see me responding any more to threads with reference to you and cables.
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Post by brian2957 on Jul 31, 2019 8:09:09 GMT
I genuinely don't GAF about what anyone says, i know that cables make a difference and i know they are as important as any component. Months of testing cables and consistanlty hearing a difference between them all (including blind testing!) cannot be explained away by some one else's denial.
I've been making and testing my own cables since 1995 and totally agree with the above Oli .
It's not up for debate , I've heard the difference cables can make hundreds of times and don't care what anybody else thinks .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 8:26:45 GMT
Why not read what's there?
It's not a case of cables have no effect.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 9:19:13 GMT
The point is simple: not everyone shares your world view on cables. Your example of someone with an £8K + system, you assert that they're not going to use what you consider to be cheap cables. It wasn't just your assertion, but the arrogance with it. I give a real world example of someone with a system worth 5 times as much, who, by your own definition, you would say would not consider using "cheap cables". And what do they? Relatively cheap cables, despite having tried more expensive ones. You seemed to think I went out of my way actively looking for something. Not so. It was "there". It just happened to be a mod on The Wam. You thought something similar over on AOS with your capacitor comparison when I made reference to Walt Jung. You'd never heard of him and suggested we could all do Google searches. My response was I didn't need to. Anyway, I can't see me responding any more to threads with reference to you and cables. Jesus wept man, Walt Jung was over two years ago and it still made no difference to my opinion. Arrogance? What arrogance? I was talking of my own system (£8K? Probably less actually) and that i wouldn't stick Van Damme cables in it, because they're Sh#t. My assertion is also accurate in my real life experience. Every single system i have heard, at other peoples houses, bakeoffs, or anywhere for that matter, which has seen significant investment, has never used cheap Sh#t cables. There will always be those who don't share my view on the value of a good cable in their system but like i say, that's their problem not mine. What i have stated is my opinion which has been based on my experience. You don't like the ultimate terms in which i speak, again that's fine but I'm right in what i say. Now, serious time: I said earlier in the thread that you seem to make a beeline for me whenever cables are brought up and you dismissed it with a sarcastic comment. However do and now you're dragging up a row we had two years ago about capacitors. Give it a rest will ya. Cables make a difference, people don't share my view. I don't believe i said anything different to that either so why are you still banging on if we both said the same thing! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 9:22:49 GMT
I genuinely don't GAF about what anyone says, i know that cables make a difference and i know they are as important as any component. Months of testing cables and consistanlty hearing a difference between them all (including blind testing!) cannot be explained away by some one else's denial. I've been making and testing my own cables since 1995 and totally agree with the above Oli . It's not up for debate , I've heard the difference cables can make hundreds of times and don't care what anybody else thinks . Brian, I completely agree with you but apparently i have been arrogant in ignoring that people with expensive systems may use Sh#t cables if they wish. Even though i agreed with that notion. It's the most ridiculous argument in forum history i think lol |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 31, 2019 9:25:24 GMT
I just don’t care enough about what other people think. I hear differences but if they don’t, then good for them: They can save money. As long as they don’t want me to use poor cables I’m good,
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 9:27:20 GMT
So, if £50 cables are Sh#t, at what price do cables cease to be Sh#t? At what point does the law of diminish returns kick in; £100, £200, £500, £1,000?
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Post by dsjr on Jul 31, 2019 9:32:55 GMT
My beef is that Van damme XKE is total crap according to some here - I can't bring myself to use them mainly because the cable cheap to buy and I still have price-prejudice as it's around a quid-and-a-bit per metre. Unsighted, it 'sounds' fine to me once I've forgotten what it is. The brown colour 'sounds better' anyway   3m of Mogami 2549 inc P&P cost me £13 I remember and it does look posher as well as having what seems to be good quality conductors inside. For now, any new interconnects I make up will probably be with this stuff. Now, if you want to see ripoff pricing on this cable, look at the Linn T cable. The RCA plugs aren't anything special (they're generic from the far east available in dozens of styles I remember from my Cable Talk days) but the mini-DIN plug is theirs I think.. www.soundstage.uk.com/p/linn-t-kable-phono-rca-tonearm-cable/?attribute_length=1.2m&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8OCbxuze4wIVBLTtCh0dogJqEAQYBCABEgI80fD_BwESo to return to the OP. Make your own seriously good interconnect for thirty quid including posh looking RCA plugs, or pay the equivalent of £300 for a dealer bought alternative?
This one was always lovely with more stark amps such as Linns own -
No idea where it came from though...
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